Wildlife Setup: Stacked Sensor + TC vs High Res Sensor and Crop

JamesMorgan

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I’m looking for advice on buying a new setup for wildlife (mainly birds, but some mammals). I haven’t yet decided on brand, but struggling a little with the best approach. I typically shoot wildlife on longish hikes (4-8 miles) so need something reasonably lightweight. I think I’m looking for a lens with a focal length around 500mm (FF equivalent), but ideally something that could be extended to up to around 800mm.

Most brands seem to have camera bodies in the 24MP range that have fast sensors (either stacked or semi-stacked) or bodies in the 40-50MP range that are slower, but provide greater cropability. I think I have two approaches. Either buy a 24MP body with a 500mm lens and a 1.4x TC when I need greater reach, or get a 40-50MP body with the same lens without TC and simply crop deeper when needed.

The relative pros and cons I can see are:

24MP Stacked Sensor Body

Pros
  • faster sensor so better for fast action avoiding rolling shutter
  • improved AF from a stacked sensor
Cons
  • lose 1 stop of light when using TC
  • hassle of taking TC on and off
40-50MP High Resolution Body

Pros
  • Simpler setup as no need to take TC on and off
  • Slightly lighter/shorter setup as no TC
  • Slightly better dynamic range than a stacked sensor
Cons
  • Worse rolling shutter and AF
  • Editing files may be slower and may need a PC upgrade due to larger file size
I’m struggling to work out what would be the best approach and welcome any advice, especially from people who have used both approaches and can give feedback on how much the pros/cons of each matter in the real world.
 
How much are you able/willing to spend on the entire setup?

Also, do you need a zoom lens, or are you more interested in a prime lens?

Are you only interested in full frame sensors or are you willing to use a crop sensor (APS-C or micro 4/3)?

My experience is limited to my Sony a6700 and the 70-350mm lens, but I've done fairly extensive research into budget, mid-range, and top of the line gear. My main interest is aircraft (airshows, planespotting), but the gear is pretty much the same as wildlife.
 
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I see from your other posts that you currently shoot with both M4/3 (G9) and L mount (FF). You also clearly have some wildlife experience, so I assume that you have some idea of how much weight you want to carry when hiking.

I shoot with a stacked sensor OM-1. Personally I don't find a stacked sensor to be particularly important for wildlife. The only times that I have experienced rolling shutter effects is when panning to follow a bird flying across a building or a location with, say, telegraph poles in the background. In my experience rolling shutter effects are not visible when panning across trees or the like. However, others on these forums have posted rolling shutter effects in humming bird wings.

I also shoot some soccer matches and rolling shutter effects can be very obvious then both in the vertical background structures (e.g. the goal posts) and in the ball itself when moving at high speed. That was why I bought a stacked shutter camera, for sports, not wildlife.

I am not that certain how big an AF improvement a stacked shutter gives, if any. The OM-1 certainly has better AF than my previous M4/3 camera (E-M1.2) but that may be due to other AF improvements. If you are faced with a choice between a stacked shutter and a non-stacked shutter camera, then I suggest reading the reviews to see which has the best AF for your purpose.

I can't offer an opinion about 24MP + 1.4x TC v 50MP + cropping. The 24MP camera may have faster fps rates, but the 50MP has a higher resolution when you don't need to crop.
 
How much are you able/willing to spend on the entire setup?

Also, do you need a zoom lens, or are you more interested in a prime lens?

Are you only interested in full frame sensors or are you willing to use a crop sensor (APS-C or micro 4/3)?

My experience is limited to my Sony a6700 and the 70-350mm lens, but I've done fairly extensive research into budget, mid-range, and top of the line gear. My main interest is aircraft (airshows, planespotting), but the gear is pretty much the same as wildlife.
I don't have a fixed budget, but somewhere around £5K. Total weight around 2kg +/- 10%. Zoom lens is more flexible, but not averse to prime (esp as typically works better with TC). I have experience of both m43 and FF and happy to consider any format.
 
I don't have a fixed budget, but somewhere around £5K. Total weight around 2kg +/- 10%. Zoom lens is more flexible, but not averse to prime (esp as typically works better with TC). I have experience of both m43 and FF and happy to consider any format.
I'm guessing on what £5K will get you, as I have to convert it to USD - which is about $5800 - but you also don't have to deal with the Taco Tariffs, so that £5K should go further than $5800 does in the US (I think) unless you're in a country that photography gear comes at a premium.

Even though I'm a Sony guy (for now, anyway), I'd look at Canon, and specifically at the RF 100-500mm f4.5-7.1 lens. It's relatively lightweight - lighter than the Sony 200-600mm and Nikon 180-600mm - and should keep you at around the 2kg goal, whereas those others won't, and has the zoom advantage over both companies' 100-400mm lenses. Actually, with any of the good Canon bdeies, it's a lighter combo than the Sony 100-400mm with any of their full frame bodies (and probably Nikon as well, but haven't looked). The Canon RF 100-500mm also takes the 1.4x TC pretty well from what I've seen, at least when you have good light (the TC drops f7.1 to f10).

You have a few choices with Canon bodies. A couple of the choices will require some patience.

1. R6 Mk II. 24mp and fast burst and readout speeds.

2. R6 Mk III. Supposedly to be announced very soon. Price with the 100-500mm may or may not put you over your budget.

3. R5 (first version). The Mk II is probably beyond your budget. The Mk II has obvious advantages over the first version, but the first R5 actually has some IQ advantage over the Mk II. The Mk II has a stacked sensor that allows for faster bursts and has a faster readout speed for less rolling shutter issues, but the stacked sensor doesn't handle noise as well as the older sensor on the first R5.

4. R7 Mk II. Don't bother with the first one. The Mk II is rumored - most definitely in development, but so far we haven't heard much definitively about its specs or features. One rumor is that it won't have a mechanical shutter, which implies the readout speed (slow on the R7 Mk I) is fast enough that a mechanical shutter isn't needed. Another rumor is that it doesn't have a stacked sensor, which seems contradictory to being fast enough to not need a mechanical shutter. However, if they can boost the readout speed, it might indeed not need to be a stacked sensor. The R7 already has a pretty fast burst speed (but a small buffer) with an unstacked sensor, so even if they don't make the burst faster, as long as the readout speed is faster we should be golden. We're also hoping it has a larger buffer, maybe a CFe card slot, and other improvements. The R7/R7 Mk II has an APS-C censor with a 1.6x crop factor, which has its disadvantages and advantages. I'm sure you know the disadvantages are, so I won't bother listing them. The 1.6x crop gives you a 160-800mm effective field of view, without the need for the teleconvertor and without the 1 stop hit to your aperture. A lot of Canon people that shoot with R6 and R5s also bought an R7 for this reason.

If you're not interested in the R7 Mk II, that leaves us with the question you had about 24mp + 1.4x TC vs 45mp. This does get tricky because while the obvious answer might seem to be the R5 since you can always add the 1.4x TC to that body as well. However, the R5 is a slower camera than the R6 Mk II (and presumably the Mk III). Between the R5 and R6 Mk II, I'd lean towards the R5, but I think you should wait for the Mk III announcement (and availability) before making that decision.

Your options with Sony are somewhat limited. There's 2 3rd party 500mm lenses, the Tamron 150-500mm and Sigma 500mm f5.6 prime. However, the bodies available don't quite compare to the Canon options. For faster framerates you have to go with either the A9 or A1, as the A7 bodies don't get anywhere near what Canons have. The original A9 is affordable, but it's old. The A9 II is probably outside your budget when you add a lens, as is the original A1. The lightweight Sony lens option is the 100-400mm GM with the 1.4x TC. If you don't need the faster burst speeds, the A7IV is the current midrange option, but it's a bit old, and the A7V is due to be released soon. The Tamron 150-500mm is an average lens, good but not great (watch the reviews). The Sigma 500mm is small and light for what you get, and is one of the sharpest lenses you can buy without paying used car prices.

Another Sony option is the a6700 (like I have), with a myriad of lens options. There's the 70-350mm (105-525mm - actually more like 535mm effective field of view because the crop is actually 1.53x), which is very small and light for what you get, the Tamron 50-400mm (114-612mm), and the Sony 100-400mm GM (153-612mm) that also takes the 1.4x TC well. The 15fps limit that Sony imposes on 3rd party lenses is moot with the a6700 (actually all Sonys other than the A1 and A9 line). The autofocus on the a6700 is absolutely amazing. However the smallish, side-mounted viewfinder might be a deal killer.

Nikon has a compelling option with the Z6 III and the 400mm f4.5. It's small and light, sharp, and the Z6 III is a pretty amazing camera for the price. It's shorter than the 500mm you want, but you can add the 1.4x TC to get 560mm at f6.3, and that combo should be right around 2kg.

I'm not sure that can recommend Fuji. The autofocus isn't up to par compared to other brand, and I don't find any of the lens options particularly compelling. Something like the X-H2S would be the right camera, but the 100-400mm lens is a bit old and not as good as other 100-400mm lenses. The Tamron 50-400mm isn't available for Fuji, sadly, although the 150-500mm is (heavier than your max though). The 150-600mm is big and heavy (although barely more than your 2kg + 10% limit), although it's actually lighter than the Tamron 150-500mm. Then there's the Fujinon 500mm f5.6. Great for birds and smaller animals, but since you're at 750mm (closer to 765mm) effective field of view, you're very limited without the zoom for other uses.

That leaves micro 4/3. The obvious choice is the OM Systems OM-1 Mk II. I'd pair that with the M.Zuiko Digital 100-400mm F5.0-6.3 IS II. You get 200-800mm effective field of view, and a teleconverter, while you can use one, is probably unnecessary (and possibly detrimental because you'd be introducing some diffraction). You already know about the advantages and disadvantages of the small M43 sensor.

I can't speak for anything in L mount. Never had any interest, so I haven't done the research. The one option I'm aware of would be the S1RII with the new 100-500mm. I've read the autofocus isn't up to par compared to Sony or Canon. Pretty much any Sigma lens is available in L mount, so there's that.

Out of all these options, I'd recommend going with the Canon 100-500mm lens and whatever body you prefer, even if you have to wait for it to be released. I hope I've helped you some, but if you're like me, knowing all the options makes things even more difficult.
 
All you really need, or want, for your subjects is 10 fps. As far as I know all the latest mirrorless cameras are capable of this. At least there are several high MP FF cameras that do. I have 10 fps and often shoot bursts of five images. I can't imagine having to go through bursts of ten to twenty images.

If you choose full frame get the highest MP body AND get the 1.4x. The detail you can get with a 500mm prime and 1.4x on a 45-60 MP camera is amazing. If you subject is difficult for you to track at that focal length then the 500mm on the higher MP camera will deliver superior images. There will also be times, even with an 800mm lens, when you won't fill the frame and you will need the extra MP.

Your alternative is one of the five high MP APS-C cameras. The smaller Canon APS-C sensor, with 32.5 MP, of the 90D or R7 (I don't recommend the M6 II) or one of the two typical sized APS-C sensors of the 40MP Fuji cameras. The 500mm gives the view of an 800mm lens while not losing an aperture (caused by a 1.4x) to achieve correct exposure. These cameras get you more pixels than cropping from even the high MP FF. Canon APS-C is equivalent to 36MP FUJI APS-C. So, even if you fill the frame of the FF high MP camera the APS-C cameras are not far behind, and without the additional 1.4x, and loss of aperture.

All of this depends on your final use. The more MP that you can achieve the larger prints that you can make. If you don't print over 8x12, and only post on-line, then you wouldn't likely need higher MPs.
 
Howdy James. Warning, long post.

I'm an Oly m4/3 and Sony APS-C and FF shooter. My main camera now is the Sony A7RIV. On all three I use a manual focus Canon FD 500 F/4.5L, on Sony I also use the Sony 200-600.

I went with the A7RIV for the 61mp sensor, I couldn't justify or afford the Sony A1. The 61mp allows for really good cropping, really good. With the 200-600 if you put the camera in crop mode you end up with a long length of 900mm at 26mp APS-C. So that sort of leaves m4/3 behind a little. However you can do that same crop from a full res shot anyway.

Example of cropping from the 61mp sensor using a manual focus Canon FD 500 F/4.5L .......

Full image of a Swallow in flight
Full image of a Swallow in flight

Cropped

874e889f5db7454497fa22e810b4f166.jpg

7415864560c34d60b3848a084d41d65b.jpg

f979d897efbe4a0795687af963e6d6af.jpg

55c7b5993a49439cb1edb2b588f1c28e.jpg

7b9b1e9c58d04c14a87999e5343f4a0a.jpg

That's a few from a burst at 10 FPS, total of ten shots in the series. So it can crop well, not perfect, but a good cropping exercise.

When I use the 200-600 (Sony of course has 400-800 now as well) for swallows in flight or small birds, I find I use around 350-400mm, so this is where a zoom comes in handy.

Stacked sensors are excellent, no doubt about it, but in FF also expensive and I'm not a fan of taking home thousands of shots at high burst rates. Just a me thing. Even on the Oly I still only use 10 FPS anyway.

Anyway, thousands of shots here from m4/3 and Sony, if I could afford an A1 MKII I would get one, just too high on the budget here is all. Canon and Nikon also have superb options and it's not easy to choose for sure. This is just what I use and no real preference in brands or formats, so just a personal thing. I would always go for a higher res sensor though, just an opinion.

All the best James, a long boring post, but it might help somehow.

Danny.

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https://www.flickr.com/photos/194823742@N03/
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Theorists. Looks good on paper, just not photographic printing paper.
 
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The sensor speed isn’t important if you use mechanical shutter, but is more important for electronical shutter and video.

The Lumix 100-500 is lighter, a little bit shorter and less expensive.

The autofocus of the Panasonic camera’s is not on the Sony levels, but so are Nikon and Canon. But they are not that much worse. Out of the box the Canon might be better, but when setting the Panasonic up right it is a monster too.

Here is a vid of Chelsea trying out the Lumix 100-500.

 
OM-1 + 300/4 + 1.4TC. The TC was on my camera 95% of the time. It does not handle noise well, but the sync IS is very good that you can use the slow SS to offset the ISO. This was the setup for close to 3 years and I was happy with it. I have G9II and it's subpar compared to OM-1 for birds. You are not gaining much with 24MP vs 20MP.

I had Sony FF stacked before the OM-1, and now back to Sony with the 300/2.8 + 1.4TC; the weight was the main issue. The Sony AF is more consistent and OM-1's can be jumpy at times.

No experiences on other platforms/setups

If your choices are APSC/m43 stacked vs high-res non-stacked for birds, IMHO, stacked is the better option.

 
OM-1 + 300/4 + 1.4TC. The TC was on my camera 95% of the time. It does not handle noise well, but the sync IS is very good that you can use the slow SS to offset the ISO. This was the setup for close to 3 years and I was happy with it. I have G9II and it's subpar compared to OM-1 for birds. You are not gaining much with 24MP vs 20MP.

I had Sony FF stacked before the OM-1, and now back to Sony with the 300/2.8 + 1.4TC; the weight was the main issue. The Sony AF is more consistent and OM-1's can be jumpy at times.

No experiences on other platforms/setups

If your choices are APSC/m43 stacked vs high-res non-stacked for birds, IMHO, stacked is the better option.
Thanks for the feedback - really useful. Did you go back to the Sony/300 combination because you get much better results with this combination (despite significantly shorter reach than OM1/300)?
 
OM-1 + 300/4 + 1.4TC. The TC was on my camera 95% of the time. It does not handle noise well, but the sync IS is very good that you can use the slow SS to offset the ISO. This was the setup for close to 3 years and I was happy with it. I have G9II and it's subpar compared to OM-1 for birds. You are not gaining much with 24MP vs 20MP.

I had Sony FF stacked before the OM-1, and now back to Sony with the 300/2.8 + 1.4TC; the weight was the main issue. The Sony AF is more consistent and OM-1's can be jumpy at times.

No experiences on other platforms/setups

If your choices are APSC/m43 stacked vs high-res non-stacked for birds, IMHO, stacked is the better option.
Thanks for the feedback - really useful. Did you go back to the Sony/300 combination because you get much better results with this combination (despite significantly shorter reach than OM1/300)?
The FF is more forgiven under difficult conditions and Sony has better AF and tracking. Besides, all I needed was the lightweight lens since I already have everything else - fairly easy switch.

I like the long focal length, mostly not for the reach, but for the details. I have both Sony 1.4 and 2 TCs. It's a 50MP camera, and I can get the 300/2.8 to 900/5.6 in the 22MP APSC mode. That being said, the 2x does degrade the IQ a bit.

How good is the OM-1 + 300/4 + 1.4TC Sync IS: here are some examples (post processed, downsized to 2400x, and you want to view them at the original size), with the max 1/50s (down to 1/6s) @ 420/5.6, all handhelds. IMHO, it's one of the best low light performers via the slow SS.
 
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The relative pros and cons I can see are:

24MP Stacked Sensor Body

Pros
  • faster sensor so better for fast action avoiding rolling shutter
  • improved AF from a stacked sensor
Cons
  • lose 1 stop of light when using TC
  • hassle of taking TC on and off
While adding a TC reduces exposure, it does not reduce the total light energy collected from the bird in the frame. The TC'd photo will show the same amount of noise but greater resolution (more pixels on the subject) as a photo made vwith the same camera & lens but no TC at a faster f-stop and cropped to a tighter framing.
40-50MP High Resolution Body

Pros
  • Simpler setup as no need to take TC on and off
  • Slightly lighter/shorter setup as no TC
  • Slightly better dynamic range than a stacked sensor
Dynamic range differences are typically greater at lower ISOs. Most bird & wildlife photography is done at higher ISOs where the difference in DR between stacked and non-stacked systems is minimal.
Cons
  • Worse rolling shutter and AF
The Nikon Z9 and Z8, and Canon R5II are stacked sensor, high-res bodies that have minimal rolling shutter.
  • Editing files may be slower and may need a PC upgrade due to larger file size
I purchased a new laptop a few months after updating to a Z9.
I’m struggling to work out what would be the best approach and welcome any advice, especially from people who have used both approaches and can give feedback on how much the pros/cons of each matter in the real world.
I recommend looking first for the lens you want to use. Then pair it with the most competent body that fits within your budget.

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Bill Ferris Photography
https://billferrisphotography.pixieset.com/arizonaslittleserengeti/
 
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If I was starting again I would start with a secondhand Sony A1 and the Sony FE 400-800.

I don't have the 400-800 but by all accounts it is sharper than the 200-600 + 1.4TC.

That would get you the best birding zoom lens and the best camera/autofocus apart from the A1 II.

A lighter option might be the 300 f/2.8 + 2xTC or 1.4TC. But that's a little short for quite a bit of the time.

And you will need a small backpack that will fit the fully assembled camera/lens/lens hood for longer walks.

If you aren't crazy about action (i.e. birds in flight) then you could get away with the A7rv + 200-600 + 1.4TC.

Of course the A1 II is just wickedly good too with its RAW Pre-Capture.

A quick video on the A1 II Pre-Capture and Autofocus settings I use below. Might be better not to look at this though !!
 

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