Why not a standard light meter

[J. Rhys Fastiggi]

I was up in an airplane taking photos yesterday. I was using manual exposure and took about 100 photos with my G2. Right at the end I flipped it to Programmed AE and took about 6 photos. I was very disappointed to find that almost none of the manual exposed photos were as good as the programmed ones.

So I asked why??? Well one reason is that the only light meter that is available is the photo that is displayed on the LCD. And as we all know by now this little photo diplay is no indication of what the photo is going to look like when it is blown up on the computer screen. I don't know about the rest of the cameras but at least with the G2 the brightness of the LCD changes depending on the angle that you are looking at it. So how in the "H" are you supposed to use it as a light meter.

So I asked, why don't they just include a small + - meter like on the standard SLR that will indicate when the correct Shutter/F-Stop settings are selected for the selected ISO setting. I assume everything is already build into the camera, so it is just a matter of adding the simple graphics to the LCD. For that matter it would not be very difficult to also add it to the top display so that you could save a lot of power by not using the large one.

For camera that use the Through the Lens View they can add this right into the view-finder.

 

[morris]

I understand where you are coming from hear. I shoot any difficult exposure in manual. My procedure to do this is to take an exposure reading in program mode, and then to adjust the exposure from there. I have years of photo experience with SLR cameras and can usually guess exposure compensation fairly well. Evens thou my first guess is usually close I do miss. It is great having the LCD and fast review to catch the mistakes. You can do what has been recommended for years, bracket you exposure by going a little over and under what you expect to be correct. Not only will this get the correct exposure, but you sometimes get very nice effects. In addition, if there are very bright objects in your photo as well as dark ones, you must watch out for the dynamic range of the CCD. In this situation it is best to underexpose and then adjust the curves in PhotoShop. Below is a thread I posted on samples and galleries. All the exposures were done in manual and yes, I did have dynamic range problems in the first 2 photos. The swan is overexposed while the rest of the seen is correct. I even underexposed 2 stops to try to avoid this. Take a look at the whole series and you will see how wonderful the method I just described works.

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1005&message=3387493

Morris

I was up in an airplane taking photos yesterday. I was using
manual exposure and took about 100 photos with my G2. Right at the
end I flipped it to Programmed AE and took about 6 photos. I was
very disappointed to find that almost none of the manual exposed
photos were as good as the programmed ones.

So I asked why??? Well one reason is that the only light meter that
is available is the photo that is displayed on the LCD. And as we
all know by now this little photo diplay is no indication of what
the photo is going to look like when it is blown up on the computer
screen. I don't know about the rest of the cameras but at least
with the G2 the brightness of the LCD changes depending on the
angle that you are looking at it. So how in the "H" are you
supposed to use it as a light meter.

So I asked, why don't they just include a small + - meter like on
the standard SLR that will indicate when the correct Shutter/F-Stop
settings are selected for the selected ISO setting. I assume
everything is already build into the camera, so it is just a matter
of adding the simple graphics to the LCD. For that matter it would
not be very difficult to also add it to the top display so that you
could save a lot of power by not using the large one.

For camera that use the Through the Lens View they can add this
right into the view-finder.

 

[Don Ellis]

So I asked, why don't they just include a small +

• meter like on the standard SLR that will indicate

when the correct Shutter/F-Stop settings are
selected for the selected ISO setting.

Perhaps I'm missing something -- it's been known to happen -- but when you half-depress the shutter button, the + - exposure indication you're looking for appears in the left-center of the LCD viewfinder. It tells you what the camera thinks is proper exposure and you can then adjust up or down from there.

Let me know if you mean something else.

Cheers,

Don

 

[J. Rhys Fastiggi]

Don that is true if you are in Program AE mode. You can either half press the shutter release or press the * button and the camera will lock the exposure and give you the result at the bottom of the LCD. But not while you are in Manual Mode. Then everything is up to you. My complaint is however exactly what you are talking about. If you are used to using the older SLR cameras (Manual) then you know that there is a simple indicator on one side of the view finder that lets you know if your are over or under exposed. This meter is a function of the ASA Setting, F-Stop and Shutter Speed. But it is only and reference indicator.

I was wondering why this meter is not programmed somewhere on the camera seeing that all of the data is right in the cameras memory.

Anyway I think it would be a very good addition for the people that like to use Manual mode like myself.

I was also very surprised how many of my photos were out of focus. I was taking photos of my kids school from about 300 feet high and 1000 feet away. So I simply put the camera in Manual Focus at infinity. Well guess what most of them were out of focus. When I switched into program mode the camera also switched back into auto focus and those photos were also in better focus. After looking at the each photos settings I found that the Auto focus setting were around 14 to 16 mm while the manual infinity was set at 19mm focal length. In any event I learn another lesson, which is what it's all about in the long run.

So I asked, why don't they just include a small +

• meter like on the standard SLR that will indicate

when the correct Shutter/F-Stop settings are
selected for the selected ISO setting.

Perhaps I'm missing something -- it's been known to happen -- but
when you half-depress the shutter button, the + - exposure
indication you're looking for appears in the left-center of the LCD
viewfinder. It tells you what the camera thinks is proper exposure
and you can then adjust up or down from there.

Let me know if you mean something else.

Cheers,

Don

 

[J. Rhys Fastiggi]

thanks morris for your suggestions. I still wish they would include the meter all the time for a reference while in Manual mode. When I was up in the airplane (hanging out of the open door) it was not very convenient to keep switching back to program mode and pressing the shutter half way to see the camera exposer and then switching back to Manual. Which by the way does not start from the Program point, but rather from the last manual setting that was entered. By the time I would do that the shot would have been about a mile behind me. Is is also a shame to have to try to take a dozen shots so that maybe one would come out ok. That is if time is permitting. Again I just think that the addition of the meter in manual mode as a reference would be great.

Morris do you know if the D60 as this data like the Manual SLRs used to provide.

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1005&message=3387493

Morris

I was up in an airplane taking photos yesterday. I was using
manual exposure and took about 100 photos with my G2. Right at the
end I flipped it to Programmed AE and took about 6 photos. I was
very disappointed to find that almost none of the manual exposed
photos were as good as the programmed ones.

So I asked why??? Well one reason is that the only light meter that
is available is the photo that is displayed on the LCD. And as we
all know by now this little photo diplay is no indication of what
the photo is going to look like when it is blown up on the computer
screen. I don't know about the rest of the cameras but at least
with the G2 the brightness of the LCD changes depending on the
angle that you are looking at it. So how in the "H" are you
supposed to use it as a light meter.

So I asked, why don't they just include a small + - meter like on
the standard SLR that will indicate when the correct Shutter/F-Stop
settings are selected for the selected ISO setting. I assume
everything is already build into the camera, so it is just a matter
of adding the simple graphics to the LCD. For that matter it would
not be very difficult to also add it to the top display so that you
could save a lot of power by not using the large one.

For camera that use the Through the Lens View they can add this
right into the view-finder.

 

[Hal Fisher]

I liked the first one the most (swan out on the lake). But, I can see how you would have REALLY benefited with the higher pixel count and 12 digit A to D converter. Your definetly good enough to gain from a G3.

Hal

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1005&message=3387493

Morris

I was up in an airplane taking photos yesterday. I was using
manual exposure and took about 100 photos with my G2. Right at the
end I flipped it to Programmed AE and took about 6 photos. I was
very disappointed to find that almost none of the manual exposed
photos were as good as the programmed ones.

So I asked why??? Well one reason is that the only light meter that
is available is the photo that is displayed on the LCD. And as we
all know by now this little photo diplay is no indication of what
the photo is going to look like when it is blown up on the computer
screen. I don't know about the rest of the cameras but at least
with the G2 the brightness of the LCD changes depending on the
angle that you are looking at it. So how in the "H" are you
supposed to use it as a light meter.

So I asked, why don't they just include a small + - meter like on
the standard SLR that will indicate when the correct Shutter/F-Stop
settings are selected for the selected ISO setting. I assume
everything is already build into the camera, so it is just a matter
of adding the simple graphics to the LCD. For that matter it would
not be very difficult to also add it to the top display so that you
could save a lot of power by not using the large one.

For camera that use the Through the Lens View they can add this
right into the view-finder.

 

[Don Ellis]

Don that is true if you are in Program AE mode.
You can either half press the shutter release or
press the * button and the camera will lock the
exposure and give you the result at the bottom of
the LCD. But not while you are in Manual Mode.

I can only assume we're talking about two different things -- when I'm in Manual mode and half-press the shutter my exposure information comes up on the left-center of the LCD viewer. Then I adjust the shutter speed or aperture with the Omni-selector to set it where I want it. That's the way I use it all the time.

Now you can tell me what I'm missing.

Don

 

[gkl]

Are you sure you have a G2? In manual mode, my G2 shows the degree of under/overexposure on the left side of the LCD. If it is more than 2 stops over or 2 stops under, it shows +2 or -2 in red.

If you are concerned about judging exposure from the LCD, why don't you use the histogram which can be called up for the last shot by pressing the set button? GKL

I was up in an airplane taking photos yesterday. I was using
manual exposure and took about 100 photos with my G2. Right at the
end I flipped it to Programmed AE and took about 6 photos. I was
very disappointed to find that almost none of the manual exposed
photos were as good as the programmed ones.

So I asked why??? Well one reason is that the only light meter that
is available is the photo that is displayed on the LCD. And as we
all know by now this little photo diplay is no indication of what
the photo is going to look like when it is blown up on the computer
screen. I don't know about the rest of the cameras but at least
with the G2 the brightness of the LCD changes depending on the
angle that you are looking at it. So how in the "H" are you
supposed to use it as a light meter.

So I asked, why don't they just include a small + - meter like on
the standard SLR that will indicate when the correct Shutter/F-Stop
settings are selected for the selected ISO setting. I assume
everything is already build into the camera, so it is just a matter
of adding the simple graphics to the LCD. For that matter it would
not be very difficult to also add it to the top display so that you
could save a lot of power by not using the large one.

For camera that use the Through the Lens View they can add this
right into the view-finder.

 

[morris]

I have only used a D60 in program and shutter priority. There is plenty of information in the viewfinder. I suggest you check the manual or the reviews. I suspect that you can have the display in manual as well. Next time I borrow one, I will check it out.

Morris

PS. You could ask on Canon SLR.

Morris do you know if the D60 as this data like the Manual SLRs
used to provide.

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1005&message=3387493

Morris

I was up in an airplane taking photos yesterday. I was using
manual exposure and took about 100 photos with my G2. Right at the
end I flipped it to Programmed AE and took about 6 photos. I was
very disappointed to find that almost none of the manual exposed
photos were as good as the programmed ones.

So I asked why??? Well one reason is that the only light meter that
is available is the photo that is displayed on the LCD. And as we
all know by now this little photo diplay is no indication of what
the photo is going to look like when it is blown up on the computer
screen. I don't know about the rest of the cameras but at least
with the G2 the brightness of the LCD changes depending on the
angle that you are looking at it. So how in the "H" are you
supposed to use it as a light meter.

So I asked, why don't they just include a small + - meter like on
the standard SLR that will indicate when the correct Shutter/F-Stop
settings are selected for the selected ISO setting. I assume
everything is already build into the camera, so it is just a matter
of adding the simple graphics to the LCD. For that matter it would
not be very difficult to also add it to the top display so that you
could save a lot of power by not using the large one.

For camera that use the Through the Lens View they can add this
right into the view-finder.

 

[morris]

Don, what he is looking for is the suggested values to be displayed as well as the current settings. Many SLRs do this.

Morris

Don that is true if you are in Program AE mode.
You can either half press the shutter release or
press the * button and the camera will lock the
exposure and give you the result at the bottom of
the LCD. But not while you are in Manual Mode.

I can only assume we're talking about two different things -- when
I'm in Manual mode and half-press the shutter my exposure
information comes up on the left-center of the LCD viewer. Then I
adjust the shutter speed or aperture with the Omni-selector to set
it where I want it. That's the way I use it all the time.

Now you can tell me what I'm missing.

Don

 

[morris]

When you are in a fast shooting situation, you do not have time to review and bring up the histogram.

Morris

If you are concerned about judging exposure from the LCD, why don't
you use the histogram which can be called up for the last shot by
pressing the set button? GKL

I was up in an airplane taking photos yesterday. I was using
manual exposure and took about 100 photos with my G2. Right at the
end I flipped it to Programmed AE and took about 6 photos. I was
very disappointed to find that almost none of the manual exposed
photos were as good as the programmed ones.

So I asked why??? Well one reason is that the only light meter that
is available is the photo that is displayed on the LCD. And as we
all know by now this little photo diplay is no indication of what
the photo is going to look like when it is blown up on the computer
screen. I don't know about the rest of the cameras but at least
with the G2 the brightness of the LCD changes depending on the
angle that you are looking at it. So how in the "H" are you
supposed to use it as a light meter.

So I asked, why don't they just include a small + - meter like on
the standard SLR that will indicate when the correct Shutter/F-Stop
settings are selected for the selected ISO setting. I assume
everything is already build into the camera, so it is just a matter
of adding the simple graphics to the LCD. For that matter it would
not be very difficult to also add it to the top display so that you
could save a lot of power by not using the large one.

For camera that use the Through the Lens View they can add this
right into the view-finder.

 

[morris]

Thank you Hal. I agree that the features of the G3 sound like they might help with a shot like this. If I had been shooting with my Canon AE-1 with ISO 100 film, I would have had the exposure latitude to capture this photo. I’ve seen the D60 fail to have the dynamic range to capture a seen like this. It is defiantly a challenge.

Morris

Hal

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1005&message=3387493

Morris

I was up in an airplane taking photos yesterday. I was using
manual exposure and took about 100 photos with my G2. Right at the
end I flipped it to Programmed AE and took about 6 photos. I was
very disappointed to find that almost none of the manual exposed
photos were as good as the programmed ones.

So I asked why??? Well one reason is that the only light meter that
is available is the photo that is displayed on the LCD. And as we
all know by now this little photo diplay is no indication of what
the photo is going to look like when it is blown up on the computer
screen. I don't know about the rest of the cameras but at least
with the G2 the brightness of the LCD changes depending on the
angle that you are looking at it. So how in the "H" are you
supposed to use it as a light meter.

So I asked, why don't they just include a small + - meter like on
the standard SLR that will indicate when the correct Shutter/F-Stop
settings are selected for the selected ISO setting. I assume
everything is already build into the camera, so it is just a matter
of adding the simple graphics to the LCD. For that matter it would
not be very difficult to also add it to the top display so that you
could save a lot of power by not using the large one.

For camera that use the Through the Lens View they can add this
right into the view-finder.

 

[Dick S]

Hi Guys,

I bought a Voigtlander VC meter for my Fuji 6X7 120/220 that fits in the hot shoe when I didn't want to be bothered with using my Sekonic 358. I now use it more on my G1 when I shoot in manual. A full time small accurate (center weighted-not spot) meter. I love the li'l sucker!!!
Regards,
--
**** S, Temecula, CA
'Capturing The Essence'

 

[J. Rhys Fastiggi]

Rhys Wrote:

Your right it does show the degree of under or over exposure on the LCD. That is better than nothing. What I mean is that it only shows it after you press the shutter botton half way. I thought that I might correct this problem by placing it in continuous AE mode but it still only shows it after the button is pressed half way. And in Manual mode the AE lock botton is disabled so you can't just press the botton and wait for the results to appear. Instead you have to continue to press the botton. There are a lot of time when I just don't think having to hold down the botton while holding the camera out in front of you looking at an character that is about as big as a small ant is very practical. Again a vertical meter on one side of the LCD which is on all the time in Manual mode is what is necessary.

But you are write that this info is more available than I thought, and I will use it whenever I can. Thanks for the help. This is one very good example of why these forums are helpful.

If you are concerned about judging exposure from the LCD, why don't
you use the histogram which can be called up for the last shot by
pressing the set button? GKL

I was up in an airplane taking photos yesterday. I was using
manual exposure and took about 100 photos with my G2. Right at the
end I flipped it to Programmed AE and took about 6 photos. I was
very disappointed to find that almost none of the manual exposed
photos were as good as the programmed ones.

So I asked why??? Well one reason is that the only light meter that
is available is the photo that is displayed on the LCD. And as we
all know by now this little photo diplay is no indication of what
the photo is going to look like when it is blown up on the computer
screen. I don't know about the rest of the cameras but at least
with the G2 the brightness of the LCD changes depending on the
angle that you are looking at it. So how in the "H" are you
supposed to use it as a light meter.

So I asked, why don't they just include a small + - meter like on
the standard SLR that will indicate when the correct Shutter/F-Stop
settings are selected for the selected ISO setting. I assume
everything is already build into the camera, so it is just a matter
of adding the simple graphics to the LCD. For that matter it would
not be very difficult to also add it to the top display so that you
could save a lot of power by not using the large one.

For camera that use the Through the Lens View they can add this
right into the view-finder.

 

[J. Rhys Fastiggi]

Rhys Wrote:
Wow that sounds like a great Idea. I will check it out.

Hi Guys,
I bought a Voigtlander VC meter for my Fuji 6X7 120/220 that fits
in the hot shoe when I didn't want to be bothered with using my
Sekonic 358. I now use it more on my G1 when I shoot in manual. A
full time small accurate (center weighted-not spot) meter. I love
the li'l sucker!!!
Regards,
--
**** S, Temecula, CA
'Capturing The Essence'

 

[J. Rhys Fastiggi]

Rhys Wrote:

Morris did you read the suggestion that **** S. Made a little further down on this thread. It is not as good as being in the camera, but I must admit it is a very good alternative.

Morris

Don that is true if you are in Program AE mode.
You can either half press the shutter release or
press the * button and the camera will lock the
exposure and give you the result at the bottom of
the LCD. But not while you are in Manual Mode.

I can only assume we're talking about two different things -- when
I'm in Manual mode and half-press the shutter my exposure
information comes up on the left-center of the LCD viewer. Then I
adjust the shutter speed or aperture with the Omni-selector to set
it where I want it. That's the way I use it all the time.

Now you can tell me what I'm missing.

Don

 

[morris]

Yes, I did see it. Yet another expensive gadget.

Morris

Hi Guys,
I bought a Voigtlander VC meter for my Fuji 6X7 120/220 that fits
in the hot shoe when I didn't want to be bothered with using my
Sekonic 358. I now use it more on my G1 when I shoot in manual. A
full time small accurate (center weighted-not spot) meter. I love
the li'l sucker!!!
Regards,
--
**** S, Temecula, CA
'Capturing The Essence'

 

[morris]

I don’t trust the view when you ½ press in manual. Too many times the results are not the same. I prefer to take a few shots and then review.

Morris

But you are write that this info is more available than I thought,
and I will use it whenever I can. Thanks for the help. This is
one very good example of why these forums are helpful.

If you are concerned about judging exposure from the LCD, why don't
you use the histogram which can be called up for the last shot by
pressing the set button? GKL

I was up in an airplane taking photos yesterday. I was using
manual exposure and took about 100 photos with my G2. Right at the
end I flipped it to Programmed AE and took about 6 photos. I was
very disappointed to find that almost none of the manual exposed
photos were as good as the programmed ones.

So I asked why??? Well one reason is that the only light meter that
is available is the photo that is displayed on the LCD. And as we
all know by now this little photo diplay is no indication of what
the photo is going to look like when it is blown up on the computer
screen. I don't know about the rest of the cameras but at least
with the G2 the brightness of the LCD changes depending on the
angle that you are looking at it. So how in the "H" are you
supposed to use it as a light meter.

So I asked, why don't they just include a small + - meter like on
the standard SLR that will indicate when the correct Shutter/F-Stop
settings are selected for the selected ISO setting. I assume
everything is already build into the camera, so it is just a matter
of adding the simple graphics to the LCD. For that matter it would
not be very difficult to also add it to the top display so that you
could save a lot of power by not using the large one.

For camera that use the Through the Lens View they can add this
right into the view-finder.

 

[Matt105483]

You cant use the LCD for metering OR focus. You can use the histogram for an indication how your metering worked out. Take one shot, look at the histogram and then adjust. Or else use Av or Tv for correct metering. There is rarely a resosn to use full m over Av or Tv, unless you want to achieve things the automatic wont be able to do or certain effects. Then its your exposure knowledge that sets the parameter.

How wpuld the show the expoure settings in M? Based on the aperture or shutter you set, or based on P? In either case you may as well just use that mode.

The G2 WILL display the amount of under or overexposure based on YOUR settings. I find that totally sufficient and wonder how you got 100 bad photos with that information AND with the histogram?

I was up in an airplane taking photos yesterday. I was using
manual exposure and took about 100 photos with my G2. Right at the
end I flipped it to Programmed AE and took about 6 photos. I was
very disappointed to find that almost none of the manual exposed
photos were as good as the programmed ones.

So I asked why??? Well one reason is that the only light meter that
is available is the photo that is displayed on the LCD. And as we
all know by now this little photo diplay is no indication of what
the photo is going to look like when it is blown up on the computer
screen. I don't know about the rest of the cameras but at least
with the G2 the brightness of the LCD changes depending on the
angle that you are looking at it. So how in the "H" are you
supposed to use it as a light meter.

So I asked, why don't they just include a small + - meter like on
the standard SLR that will indicate when the correct Shutter/F-Stop
settings are selected for the selected ISO setting. I assume
everything is already build into the camera, so it is just a matter
of adding the simple graphics to the LCD. For that matter it would
not be very difficult to also add it to the top display so that you
could save a lot of power by not using the large one.

For camera that use the Through the Lens View they can add this
right into the view-finder.

 

[Matt105483]

Normally you would measure the light of a scene (halfpress the shutter) then make your composition and then take the picture. The values you got you can use for M and to overrrdie the camera settings. If the light changes then you would have to do it again, depending on the kind of shot you are doing that may be not much change. If you are still unsure about the exposure then use the histogram or bracketing.

But you are write that this info is more available than I thought,
and I will use it whenever I can. Thanks for the help. This is
one very good example of why these forums are helpful.

If you are concerned about judging exposure from the LCD, why don't
you use the histogram which can be called up for the last shot by
pressing the set button? GKL

I was up in an airplane taking photos yesterday. I was using
manual exposure and took about 100 photos with my G2. Right at the
end I flipped it to Programmed AE and took about 6 photos. I was
very disappointed to find that almost none of the manual exposed
photos were as good as the programmed ones.

So I asked why??? Well one reason is that the only light meter that
is available is the photo that is displayed on the LCD. And as we
all know by now this little photo diplay is no indication of what
the photo is going to look like when it is blown up on the computer
screen. I don't know about the rest of the cameras but at least
with the G2 the brightness of the LCD changes depending on the
angle that you are looking at it. So how in the "H" are you
supposed to use it as a light meter.

So I asked, why don't they just include a small + - meter like on
the standard SLR that will indicate when the correct Shutter/F-Stop
settings are selected for the selected ISO setting. I assume
everything is already build into the camera, so it is just a matter
of adding the simple graphics to the LCD. For that matter it would
not be very difficult to also add it to the top display so that you
could save a lot of power by not using the large one.

For camera that use the Through the Lens View they can add this
right into the view-finder.