Why Isn't Leica's M10-D ISO Dial A Problem?

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Yes, sorry, if you believe your ISO dial affects image capture…

For close to 100 years Leica never put an ISO dial on its cameras, even the digital models…until last year. Why, now, would they treat the ISO dial as a mechanism? For us purists, ISO can only be a measurement.

1*cmFU5YhsWnuc3c784bDERA.jpeg


The left ISO dial will make this an $8,000 piece of Scheisse for some Leica lovers. That said, feel free to send me this Leica as a loaner or gift and I will not look a gift-horse in the mouth! Image from B&H Photo.

Before you get fired up and jump to the comment section, YES!, I recognize that the ISO dial is crucial if you shoot in-camera JPEG. It controls the amount of digital amplification/de-amplification needed to create a viewable image in a 24-bit (8-bit, RGB) color space from the sensor’s “RAW” data. The question is: does it have a place on a Leica M?

Fact, the ISO dial is connected to the camera’s computer, not the camera’s optical and mechanical image capture system.

If all you shoot is JPEGs on the Leica M10-D, then having that ISO dial on the left is a good addition.

If all you shoot is JPEGs on the M10-D then why remove the back display which, at 8-bit, would show you exactly what you got for your in-camera JPEG exposure?

I don’t believe history will be kind to the Leica M10-D. It may even become a collector’s item. I say this because Leica putting a JPEG dial on the camera and removing the back screen seems to be, sorry, an attempt to sucker in the rich buyer.

Why would you shoot JPEGs on a Leica? Or any camera? Why would any serious photographer shoot JPEG unless they absolutely had to? Where did everyone go? To the comment section! HA HA

I understand the pressure on Leica. I, too, started drifting towards ISO as a control dial.

Then, a few years ago, I became frustrated with the slowness of my Sigma DP2M. I buy a used Ricoh GR. I knew the GR wouldn’t have the image quality of the DP2M in optimum situations (good light). But it would do better in low light and it’s smaller too.

After getting the camera I read various essays and comments about the camera. One photographer says he sets the camera on TAv mode, sets the shutter and aperture as he sees fit and let’s the camera set ISO for the JPG (or RAW sidecar value).

I returned to the philosophy I had when shooting film. I returned to the philosophy Leica was sworn to, until recently. For exposure, I set aperture and shutter and live with what noise will come!

If I’m worried about camera shake I accept that increasing the shutter will add noise. If I want to shoot a group of people at f8 (so they’re all in focus) instead of f2.8, indoors, I accept there will be a trade-off in noise.

On the other hand, If I want to reduce noise, because I’m taking a photo of a beach at sunset, then I might set the camera at a 2-second delay, open up to 2.8 and set the shutter at 1 second and put the camera on a rock.

How did I let a measurement slip into functioning as a control? Like everyone else, I started using ISO as a way to simplify (dumb down) an image to a JPEG not realizing that it was distorting my original goal to capture the highest fidelity image the camera could record — the “digital negative”.

My Photographic Goal

I “develop” all my RAW images on a PC; that is, I want as much image information as I can get out of the camera which means I only want to control the camera in a way that it best records the electrons (light intensity) at each pixel location. Today’s cameras are capable of recording 42-bits worth of light-intensity information, which is more dynamic range than the eye can see.

If a button or dial doesn’t improve sensor IQ I don’t touch it. I only have so much time to think about the photograph I’m taking. That’s the core problem of using ISO on a camera, it wastes time doing what is done better later— developing your “RAW” image into a final JPEG image.

I rarely care about what the camera can do with its internal computer, from auto-focus to image stabilization to HDR. I want to emphasize this: After I focus, set the aperture and shutter, I want as much image data as the sensor captures and nothing more — because really, there is no more.

Yes, I may dumb down the image to fewer colors and add noise later but I want to have the most latitude to choose which way I go. Here’s the final photograph of my wife to show I’m no crazy purist.

1*S6ELvjAuhum_Nx5YV26Taw.jpeg


I didn’t need to shoot RAW to end up with this

How do cameras work?

Little has changed in 200 years, when it comes to how a camera records an image. A chemical that is sensitive to photons (light) is placed on a surface so it doesn’t, well, slop around in a can. The surface can be the acetate of film or silicon in electronics. It’s all the same.

On film, a chemical reaction creates a physical image. On silicon, electronics count the electrons at each pixel location and save them as light intensity (and color by inference through a filter).

Can any dial, on a film or digital camera, change the light sensitivity of a chemical on acetate or silicon? The chemical nature of film or sensor is set at the factory. If you believe Leica can change the physical properties of the sensor in their camera by turning a dial, stop reading and head to the comment section below! Better yet, email me so I can take this essay down!

How Much Light For The Most Realism?

Systems like ISO were developed to rate the sensitivity of film in a way that a photographer can go from one brand of film (or silicon) to another, and be confident that, given a certain amount of light, they will capture, say, a black and white cookie on a gray background — with the least amount of noise!

Generally, the optimum exposure of film is 100 ISO. It’s a super complex subject which I’m going to unapologetically simplify here. If you expose an ISO 100 film/sensor to a burning candle for 1 second at f-stop 1 at ISO 100 it will be a perfectly exposed; that is, there will be the minimum amount of noise achievable with the chemical used to translate light to electrons in digital, or opaque molecules in film.

In film, you can change the sensitivity of your chemical ONLY by loading different films. ASA/DN/ISO dials were only put on some film cameras to remind the photographer what film they had in the camera if they wanted to over/under expose the film. That is, if they had ISO 100 film in the camera and set the dial to ISO 800 they knew to develop the film for a longer period of time because they didn’t give the film enough light to expose that black and white cookie properly on the gray backdrop.

The lack of ISO dials on Leica cameras is the first key to understanding the Leica philosophy of photography. Forget the cost of the cameras. The Leica philosophy is that the best camera tries to perfect only those parts of the camera that create the “negative”.

Leica didn’t put ISO dials on its cameras for the simple reason that the ISO dial wouldn’t do anything to effect the best image the camera can capture.

Why buy a Leica that thumbs its nose at hundreds of years of photographic struggle? A camera that pretends to solve the problem of changing sensor sensitivity on the fly?

Leica cameras aren’t expensive because rich people buy them. They are expensive because serious photographers, like Robert Capa, Alfred Eisenstaedt and Henri Carter-Bresson, etc., chose those cameras and their fame made the cameras desirable to those who wanted to emulate them.

Since there is always a shortage of super-serious photographers, Leica eventually had to price their cameras to balance the market realities of how many people will buy cameras for serious photography and how many will buy them to pursue the dream of one day doing serious photography.

If more people wanted the Leica philosophy the cameras would cost less and I would buy them. Instead, I buy the cameras everyone else buys (Canon, Nikons, Ricohs, Sonys, etc) and just IGNORE the ISO dial and its cousin, “EV Compensation”.

Further, the addition of the ISO dial to the M10-D is evidence that serious-photography buyers of Leica camera must be shrinking. (I’m disheartened that so many Leica vlogger/bloggers are not embarrassed by the ISO dial).

Your Camera is Part Instrument, Part Computer

Camera computer brains can think faster and more accurately. They can calculate exposure faster. Can calculate focus. It can do image processing, like warm up the photo if a portrait, or cool it down if its architecture.

A camera with the latest brain makes you feel like you have more power to get a better image. For many people, it can. Even for me, if I’m rushed, the Auto dial is my best friend.

But no camera makes better decisions about focus, aperture and shutter. No camera computer can read my mind, figure out what emotional response I’m looking for.

Only the photographer can try to pick the focus, aperture and shutter that will best capture the photograph they want to create.

Conclusion

Whatever amount of light I have, I must accept that I am beholden to the sensitivity of my camera’s film/sensor. The physical world determines how much light I have (assuming I’m not shooting with artificial lights). The physical world (materials science) determines how sensitive a chemical is to light. What camera makers can cheat Mother Nature, with even an infinite number of camera dials. All the computational power in the world cannot predict what pixel was in the scene that wasn’t detected in the first place.

Finally, please don’t misunderstand me. I love all cameras. I don’t care if they’re pinholes or have a thousand silly dials and buttons. It’s no big deal that Leica put an ISO dial on one of their cameras. I just find it odd.
 
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Thank you for such a comprehensive post on ISO.

Just a quick technical question, how did you compose such a long and complicated post ? Pure keyboard, talk-to-text application, cut-and-paste, or ? ?
 
Yes, sorry, if you believe your ISO dial affects image capture…

For close to 100 years Leica never put an ISO dial on its cameras, even the digital models…until last year. Why, now, would they treat the ISO dial as a mechanism? For us purists, ISO can only be a measurement.

1*cmFU5YhsWnuc3c784bDERA.jpeg


The left ISO dial will make this an $8,000 piece of Scheisse for some Leica lovers. That said, feel free to send me this Leica as a loaner or gift and I will not look a gift-horse in the mouth! Image from B&H Photo.

Before you get fired up and jump to the comment section, YES!, I recognize that the ISO dial is crucial if you shoot in-camera JPEG. It controls the amount of digital amplification/de-amplification needed to create a viewable image in a 24-bit (8-bit, RGB) color space from the sensor’s “RAW” data. The question is: does it have a place on a Leica M?

Fact, the ISO dial is connected to the camera’s computer, not the camera’s optical and mechanical image capture system.

If all you shoot is JPEGs on the Leica M10-D, then having that ISO dial on the left is a good addition.

If all you shoot is JPEGs on the M10-D then why remove the back display which, at 8-bit, would show you exactly what you got for your in-camera JPEG exposure?

I don’t believe history will be kind to the Leica M10-D. It may even become a collector’s item. I say this because Leica putting a JPEG dial on the camera and removing the back screen seems to be, sorry, an attempt to sucker in the rich buyer.

Why would you shoot JPEGs on a Leica? Or any camera? Why would any serious photographer shoot JPEG unless they absolutely had to? Where did everyone go? To the comment section! HA HA

I understand the pressure on Leica. I, too, started drifting towards ISO as a control dial.

Then, a few years ago, I became frustrated with the slowness of my Sigma DP2M. I buy a used Ricoh GR. I knew the GR wouldn’t have the image quality of the DP2M in optimum situations (good light). But it would do better in low light and it’s smaller too.

After getting the camera I read various essays and comments about the camera. One photographer says he sets the camera on TAv mode, sets the shutter and aperture as he sees fit and let’s the camera set ISO for the JPG (or RAW sidecar value).

I returned to the philosophy I had when shooting film. I returned to the philosophy Leica was sworn to, until recently. For exposure, I set aperture and shutter and live with what noise will come!

If I’m worried about camera shake I accept that increasing the shutter will add noise. If I want to shoot a group of people at f8 (so they’re all in focus) instead of f2.8, indoors, I accept there will be a trade-off in noise.

On the other hand, If I want to reduce noise, because I’m taking a photo of a beach at sunset, then I might set the camera at a 2-second delay, open up to 2.8 and set the shutter at 1 second and put the camera on a rock.

How did I let a measurement slip into functioning as a control? Like everyone else, I started using ISO as a way to simplify (dumb down) an image to a JPEG not realizing that it was distorting my original goal to capture the highest fidelity image the camera could record — the “digital negative”.

My Photographic Goal

I “develop” all my RAW images on a PC; that is, I want as much image information as I can get out of the camera which means I only want to control the camera in a way that it best records the electrons (light intensity) at each pixel location. Today’s cameras are capable of recording 42-bits worth of light-intensity information, which is more dynamic range than the eye can see.

If a button or dial doesn’t improve sensor IQ I don’t touch it. I only have so much time to think about the photograph I’m taking. That’s the core problem of using ISO on a camera, it wastes time doing what is done better later— developing your “RAW” image into a final JPEG image.

I rarely care about what the camera can do with its internal computer, from auto-focus to image stabilization to HDR. I want to emphasize this: After I focus, set the aperture and shutter, I want as much image data as the sensor captures and nothing more — because really, there is no more.

Yes, I may dumb down the image to fewer colors and add noise later but I want to have the most latitude to choose which way I go. Here’s the final photograph of my wife to show I’m no crazy purist.

1*S6ELvjAuhum_Nx5YV26Taw.jpeg


I didn’t need to shoot RAW to end up with this

How do cameras work?

Little has changed in 200 years, when it comes to how a camera records an image. A chemical that is sensitive to photons (light) is placed on a surface so it doesn’t, well, slop around in a can. The surface can be the acetate of film or silicon in electronics. It’s all the same.

On film, a chemical reaction creates a physical image. On silicon, electronics count the electrons at each pixel location and save them as light intensity (and color by inference through a filter).

Can any dial, on a film or digital camera, change the light sensitivity of a chemical on acetate or silicon? The chemical nature of film or sensor is set at the factory. If you believe Leica can change the physical properties of the sensor in their camera by turning a dial, stop reading and head to the comment section below! Better yet, email me so I can take this essay down!

How Much Light For The Most Realism?

Systems like ISO were developed to rate the sensitivity of film in a way that a photographer can go from one brand of film (or silicon) to another, and be confident that, given a certain amount of light, they will capture, say, a black and white cookie on a gray background — with the least amount of noise!

Generally, the optimum exposure of film is 100 ISO. It’s a super complex subject which I’m going to unapologetically simplify here. If you expose an ISO 100 film/sensor to a burning candle for 1 second at f-stop 1 at ISO 100 it will be a perfectly exposed; that is, there will be the minimum amount of noise achievable with the chemical used to translate light to electrons in digital, or opaque molecules in film.

In film, you can change the sensitivity of your chemical ONLY by loading different films. ASA/DN/ISO dials were only put on some film cameras to remind the photographer what film they had in the camera if they wanted to over/under expose the film. That is, if they had ISO 100 film in the camera and set the dial to ISO 800 they knew to develop the film for a longer period of time because they didn’t give the film enough light to expose that black and white cookie properly on the gray backdrop.

The lack of ISO dials on Leica cameras is the first key to understanding the Leica philosophy of photography. Forget the cost of the cameras. The Leica philosophy is that the best camera tries to perfect only those parts of the camera that create the “negative”.

Leica didn’t put ISO dials on its cameras for the simple reason that the ISO dial wouldn’t do anything to effect the best image the camera can capture.

Why buy a Leica that thumbs its nose at hundreds of years of photographic struggle? A camera that pretends to solve the problem of changing sensor sensitivity on the fly?

Leica cameras aren’t expensive because rich people buy them. They are expensive because serious photographers, like Robert Capa, Alfred Eisenstaedt and Henri Carter-Bresson, etc., chose those cameras and their fame made the cameras desirable to those who wanted to emulate them.

Since there is always a shortage of super-serious photographers, Leica eventually had to price their cameras to balance the market realities of how many people will buy cameras for serious photography and how many will buy them to pursue the dream of one day doing serious photography.

If more people wanted the Leica philosophy the cameras would cost less and I would buy them. Instead, I buy the cameras everyone else buys (Canon, Nikons, Ricohs, Sonys, etc) and just IGNORE the ISO dial and its cousin, “EV Compensation”.

Further, the addition of the ISO dial to the M10-D is evidence that serious-photography buyers of Leica camera must be shrinking. (I’m disheartened that so many Leica vlogger/bloggers are not embarrassed by the ISO dial).

Your Camera is Part Instrument, Part Computer

Camera computer brains can think faster and more accurately. They can calculate exposure faster. Can calculate focus. It can do image processing, like warm up the photo if a portrait, or cool it down if its architecture.

A camera with the latest brain makes you feel like you have more power to get a better image. For many people, it can. Even for me, if I’m rushed, the Auto dial is my best friend.

But no camera makes better decisions about focus, aperture and shutter. No camera computer can read my mind, figure out what emotional response I’m looking for.

Only the photographer can try to pick the focus, aperture and shutter that will best capture the photograph they want to create.

Conclusion

Whatever amount of light I have, I must accept that I am beholden to the sensitivity of my camera’s film/sensor. The physical world determines how much light I have (assuming I’m not shooting with artificial lights). The physical world (materials science) determines how sensitive a chemical is to light. What camera makers can cheat Mother Nature, with even an infinite number of camera dials. All the computational power in the world cannot predict what pixel was in the scene that wasn’t detected in the first place.

Finally, please don’t misunderstand me. I love all cameras. I don’t care if they’re pinholes or have a thousand silly dials and buttons. It’s no big deal that Leica put an ISO dial on one of their cameras. I just find it odd.
Leica had an Film speed reminder on the M range and a film speed setting on any camera with a built in exposure meter. They also had a film speed setting on their separate, though coupled, exposure meters.
 
Yes. Thanks for commenting. My point is that creating a functional dial for ISO would have been unthinkable for former Leica designers and users.
 
Yes. Thanks for commenting. My point is that creating a functional dial for ISO would have been unthinkable for former Leica designers and users.
There was an ASA/DIN scale knob on the M5 top plate. Nothing new under the sun ;-)
Best,
LCT
 
Yes, but it wasn't a knob that Leica expected a photographer to change before every photograph was taken, right? Are you being funny? Or do you not see the difference between them?
 
Yes, but it wasn't a knob that Leica expected a photographer to change before every photograph was taken, right? Are you being funny? Or do you not see the difference between them?
A bit of both i guess ;-) Nowadays changing iso has become a normal way of setting exposure and has little to do with shooting jpeg or raw IMHO.
Best,
LCT
 
Exactly! All the marketing drive to sell cameras with as many dials and features got me using ISO dials too. Then using the GR in TAv mode brought me back to my senses ;) And it was the desire for another camera that didn't succumb to that way of thinking that made me look at Leicas again, which I hadn't really kept up with since the M-9. And there I saw... Leica was doing what I was trying to get away from ;)
 
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[…]YES!, I recognize that the ISO dial is crucial if you shoot in-camera JPEG. It controls the amount of digital amplification/de-amplification needed to create a viewable image in a 24-bit (8-bit, RGB) color space from the sensor’s “RAW” data.



[…]
I confess that I stopped reading at this point, because it is simply wrong. Very few cameras implement ISO by pure digital amplification: some Sigma Foveon cameras for example. In the majority of digital cameras, ISO controls the analogue gain applied between the sensor element and the ADC. Hence correct use of the ISO control affects image noise and dynamic range, even if you use the raw image.

Leica have good engineers who know what they are doing.
 
[...] All the marketing drive to sell cameras with as many dials and features got me using ISO dials too. Then using the GR in TAv mode brought me back to my senses [...]
I'm not sure to understand why. TaV mode is the same as auto iso in manual mode if i remember well. I use it much personally but i may need to keep the same aperture with different shutter speeds to those allowed by auto iso. I'm used to do it by setting the speed manually in most cases but changing iso may feel handy as well. BTW i have no experience with the M10 but its iso dial at the bottom left of the top plate looks curiously designed for that. Try using it whilst setting focus or aperture with your left hand. Better have flexible fingers then :D I much prefer the right "wheel" of the digital CL from this standpoint.
Best,
LCT
 
Please upload and show me two RAW images from the M10-D that are different from different ISO settings. ISO is saved in a RAW file only as a convenience. I do not believe it has any effect on the ADC between sensor and RAW file except in where it might set black levels which is more mathematical scaling than any change in relative tonality.

I don't have an M10-D to test with. You don't read my whole article which I discuss these issues. Sorry, that's rude. Of course the Leica engineers know what they're doing. I never said anything contrary to that.
 
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When you take an image with a camera the camera records the amount of electrons at each pixel. Usually it does it to 14-bit precision, which is 16,383. Or 4,096 in 12-bit Each pixel has a color filter over it, red, green or blue. For our displays an printers we only need, and use, 8-bits to record our values.

Because we want the electrons counted perfectly and we can't change the material in the sensor no dial can change what it can counts once the amount of light (aperture and shutter) hits it. An ISO dial is part of the AFTER EXPOSURE PROCESSING on the collection of electrons detected by the sensor.

Think about it. Can the ISO dial improve the maximum quality of the image taken with the sensor once you have set aperture and shutter?
 
[...] Think about it. Can the ISO dial improve the maximum quality of the image taken with the sensor once you have set aperture and shutter?
Not sure to follow you here. I may use the iso dial to avoid motion blur when the chosen shutter speed is too slow at a given aperture. Or to avoid overexposure when the chosen aperture is too wide at a given shutter speed as well.
Best,
LCT
 
Please upload and show me two RAW images from the M10-D that are different from different ISO settings. ISO is saved in a RAW file only as a convenience.
If you use RAW Digger and compare at different ISO's you will find that's not necessarily the case. It can also be used to determine what ISO settings are digital manipulation (often refereed to as Intermediate ISO Settings) vs native ISO's were the actual gain is changed like John suggests. Differs one camera model to the next.
I do not believe it has any effect on the ADC between sensor and RAW file except in where it might set black levels which is more mathematical scaling than any change in relative tonality.
intermediate iso

--
My opinions are my own and not those of DPR or its administration. They carry no 'special' value (except to me and Lacie of course)
 
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Please upload and show me two RAW images from the M10-D that are different from different ISO settings. ISO is saved in a RAW file only as a convenience. I do not believe it has any effect on the ADC between sensor and RAW file except in where it might set black levels which is more mathematical scaling than any change in relative tonality.

I don't have an M10-D to test with. You don't read my whole article which I discuss these issues. Sorry, that's rude. Of course the Leica engineers know what they're doing. I never said anything contrary to that.
Bill Claff's Photons to Photos site has lots of data and information about this, showing curves of how "read" noise and dynamic range vary with ISO for different cameras. For example, if I've done it right, this link will show a comparison between the Leica M10 and SL, where you can clearly see that what is going on is not simple "digital amplification". The read noise increases while its relative contribution is reduced as ISO is increased, due to the increased analogue amplification.

Example from Bill Claff: Leica SL vs M10

I apologise for not reading your whole article, but as Bertrand Russel famously taught us, when you start with a false premise you can easily arrive at any conclusion you like, correct or otherwise!
 
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I have RAWDigger. As I mentioned, there are speculated differences in where cameras set black levels based on ISO, but that's not the same as improving image quality from a knob on the camera. If someone posts some files I'll be very curious to open RAWdigger and have a dig! :)
 
Thanks! I'm very familiar with Bill Claff. Indeed, I gave him a Sigma DP1 so he could use it to fill in his chart. When he measures ISO he isn't using the camera dial. Instead, he uses difference aperture/shutter setting to simulate ISO. Please correct me if I'm wrong. BTW, I LOVE his stuff!
 
Thanks! I'm very familiar with Bill Claff. Indeed, I gave him a Sigma DP1 so he could use it to fill in his chart. When he measures ISO he isn't using the camera dial. Instead, he uses difference aperture/shutter setting to simulate ISO. Please correct me if I'm wrong. BTW, I LOVE his stuff!
Well, you'd better ask Bill for the definitive answer, but AFAIK he takes measurements at different camera ISO settings, as plotted on the x-axis of his graphs.

I believe that your DP1 does implement ISO as a simple tag in the metadata and apply digital scaling; but most cameras don't do that!
 
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