Why all these Medium formats?

[vbuhay]

A few weeks ago I started a thread which asked , is this the end of the Full frame Format? Sure enough at the Photokina 2018, several medium format has been announced on top of the increasingly crowded medium format markets.... I am a current FF DSLR user and I am increasingly yearning for higher DR. I was hoping for the BSI sensors to bring that to us, but it seems that it is not happening....How much more advancement in Full Frame sensor technology before we get there ... or should we be thinking and preparing for the Medium Frame onslaught? Is Nikon or Canon going in that direction?

 

[Janoch]

There's a tool for any job out there...

But you lack DR? Really?

How much do you need?

Or is subject so extreme, it couldn't be solved by bracketing?

 

[Canadianguy]

A few weeks ago I started a thread which asked , is this the end of the Full frame Format? Sure enough at the Photokina 2018, several medium format has been announced on top of the increasingly crowded medium format markets.... I am a current FF DSLR user and I am increasingly yearning for higher DR. I was hoping for the BSI sensors to bring that to us, but it seems that it is not happening....How much more advancement in Full Frame sensor technology before we get there ... or should we be thinking and preparing for the Medium Frame onslaught? Is Nikon or Canon going in that direction?

Which MF are you talking about - there is 1 sony 44x33mm 50 MP sensor that is reused in all the < $10K USD bodies.

Pentax 645z

Fujifilm GFX 50S and 50R

Hasselblad X1D-50c

All 3 bodies use the same 44x33mm sensor.

There was a development announcement for the next Sony 44x33mm sensor at 100 MP from Fujifilm, my guess is that Hasselblad will follow Fujifilm in reusing that sensor - who knows if Pentax will follow...

But its the same 3 players reusing the same sensor. What new players are you seeing in the 44x33mm sensor space?

Phase one seems to have moved up to the 54x40mm sensor size and left the 44x33 space to its older backs - they don't seem to be pushing the 44x33mm size anymore.

Dpreview did some test that should showed the D810 (36x24mm) sensor matching the DR of the 50 MP - 44x33mm sensor at base ISO.

 

[briantilley]

A few weeks ago I started a thread which asked , is this the end of the Full frame Format?

The answer was "no" then, and it is still "no".

Sure enough at the Photokina 2018, several medium format has been announced on top of the increasingly crowded medium format markets.... I am a current FF DSLR user and I am increasingly yearning for higher DR. I was hoping for the BSI sensors to bring that to us, but it seems that it is not happening....How much more advancement in Full Frame sensor technology before we get there ... or should we be thinking and preparing for the Medium Frame onslaught? Is Nikon or Canon going in that direction?

What is it that you can not do with the latest FX Nikons?

 

[vbuhay]

A few weeks ago I started a thread which asked , is this the end of the Full frame Format?

The answer was "no" then, and it is still "no".

Sure enough at the Photokina 2018, several medium format has been announced on top of the increasingly crowded medium format markets.... I am a current FF DSLR user and I am increasingly yearning for higher DR. I was hoping for the BSI sensors to bring that to us, but it seems that it is not happening....How much more advancement in Full Frame sensor technology before we get there ... or should we be thinking and preparing for the Medium Frame onslaught? Is Nikon or Canon going in that direction?

What is it that you can not do with the latest FX Nikons?

Its not what I cannot do, but rather I want to do better - Low light BIF/birding for example.

 

[briantilley]

A few weeks ago I started a thread which asked , is this the end of the Full frame Format?

The answer was "no" then, and it is still "no".

Sure enough at the Photokina 2018, several medium format has been announced on top of the increasingly crowded medium format markets.... I am a current FF DSLR user and I am increasingly yearning for higher DR. I was hoping for the BSI sensors to bring that to us, but it seems that it is not happening....How much more advancement in Full Frame sensor technology before we get there ... or should we be thinking and preparing for the Medium Frame onslaught? Is Nikon or Canon going in that direction?

What is it that you can not do with the latest FX Nikons?

Its not what I cannot do, but rather I want to do better - Low light BIF/birding for example.

Why do you think medium format would be better for that type of usage? It's not a good fit for formats larger than FX - for one thing, where will you find the necessary long lenses...?

 

[Michigan Sandman]

Medium format is for product photography, and studio photography. You have the perfect birding camera in the D500. I'm just getting used to one myself. Have you thought about getting a fixed aperture long telephoto. A 600mm Nikkor lens would be much more economical than buying into a medium format system where the lenses and high mega pixel backs could break the bank.

Fuji medium format is the least expensive, but they don't have any really long telephoto lenses for it. Hassy and Phase One are way up there in price, and you still wouldn't have what you are looking for.

 

[olyflyer]

A format is not just the sensor...

Have you tried to look at the long lenses for an MF? Those are HUGE...

Remember that the "normal" for an MF is not 50mm, but 85(ish)... everything is bigger/heavier/larger/more expensive for MF.

Don't worry, the FF will not be replaced by MF.

 

[olyflyer]

You have the perfect birding camera in the D500.

There is no such thing as "perfect camera"...

The "best camera" is the one you have in your hands (be that a cell phone, D500 or whatever else), but the perfect camera is not existing.

 

[olyflyer]

A few weeks ago I started a thread which asked , is this the end of the Full frame Format?

The answer was "no" then, and it is still "no".

Sure enough at the Photokina 2018, several medium format has been announced on top of the increasingly crowded medium format markets.... I am a current FF DSLR user and I am increasingly yearning for higher DR. I was hoping for the BSI sensors to bring that to us, but it seems that it is not happening....How much more advancement in Full Frame sensor technology before we get there ... or should we be thinking and preparing for the Medium Frame onslaught? Is Nikon or Canon going in that direction?

What is it that you can not do with the latest FX Nikons?

Its not what I cannot do, but rather I want to do better - Low light BIF/birding for example.

I think that's a dream... Low light use of MF for birding is a utopia. To start with, you can't shoot with MF wide open because the DOF will be REALLY paper thin, so you MUST stop down. Once you stop down you lose even more light, so you have to up the ISO... you see what I am getting at? Where is the benefit in that? Also, normally continuous shooting is very limited in MF, which again is a disadvantage...

Not to mention the size of the lenses you must carry around...

MF is perfect for studio use, where you can get near enough, have full control of the light and the subjects are large, and not moving around a lot, like people or objects on table.

 

[fishy wishy]

I read the reviews of the recent MF.

What I took away from it was that until the MF systems include an iso 64, they let FF stay within touching distance of them in quality, and FF far and away outstrips MF in versatility and lens selection. Oh, and price.

If you shoot for billboards and have a client willing to pay thousands a day for it to cover the price of MF, then bully for you, but hardly anyone does this. The rest of us can likely safely forget about MF for the time being. We have 45-50MP FF to use.

 

[[email protected]]

What will it take for you to buy a new camera?

How much more can they improve full frame?

Companies are hoping medium format offers enough image quality improvement to make you move up from your already excellent full frame camera.

maljo

 

[nathantw]

OMG, all you people with "theories" on how or why you would shoot medium format is just hilarious. "Can't shoot wide open because depth of field is paper thin." Uh, no it isn't. It's usually f/2.8 or f/4. Is that usually paper thin in full format? No. Well, it isn't in medium format either.

"Medium format is for product and still lifes." Again, nope. It's for whatever makes you happy.

Instead of guessing and spreading false information, why not go out and actually buy and use it? It's not that expensive and for the price of a D850 body you can buy a pretty good Hasselblad outfit and definitely a lot of other brand products.

As for why all the medium formats? Because the photographic industry is hurting for sales and the next big thing (so to speak) is medium format. They want sales. They want to sell you new lenses and new bodies. I don't think the 44x33 sensors give a whole lot of difference between full frame, but that's not stopping people from buying it.

All the photos below are 85% quality and reduced down further than necessary so they may not look sharp, but they are.

No studio here:

Not too paper thin:

and some other examples:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/nathantw/albums/72157681384071001/with/34369569321/

--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/nathantw/
https://nathantwong.wordpress.com/
Always have a camera with you and make sure you use it.

 

[vbuhay]

OMG, all you people with "theories" on how or why you would shoot medium format is just hilarious. "Can't shoot wide open because depth of field is paper thin." Uh, no it isn't. It's usually f/2.8 or f/4. Is that usually paper thin in full format? No. Well, it isn't in medium format either.

"Medium format is for product and still lifes." Again, nope. It's for whatever makes you happy.

Instead of guessing and spreading false information, why not go out and actually buy and use it? It's not that expensive and for the price of a D850 body you can buy a pretty good Hasselblad outfit and definitely a lot of other brand products.

As for why all the medium formats? Because the photographic industry is hurting for sales and the next big thing (so to speak) is medium format. They want sales. They want to sell you new lenses and new bodies. I don't think the 44x33 sensors give a whole lot of difference between full frame, but that's not stopping people from buying it.

All the photos below are 85% quality and reduced down further than necessary so they may not look sharp, but they are.

No studio here:

Not too paper thin:

and some other examples:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/nathantw/albums/72157681384071001/with/34369569321/

I agree for non moving subjects.....

 

[Ellis Vener]

To answer your question: because some CMOS fabrication shops in Japan have excess manufacturing capacity.

 

[vbuhay]

To answer your question: because some CMOS fabrication shops in Japan have excess manufacturing capacity.

if that is true and I do not have information to the contrary, it is a good reason for why we are seeing multiple introductions of Medium format Cameras...If these leading camera companies think there is such a market for this product, would Nikon, Canon and Sony be far behind with their own product introductions? we will have to see in the future.

 

[Ellis Vener]

To answer your question: because some CMOS fabrication shops in Japan have excess manufacturing capacity.

if that is true and I do not have information to the contrary, it is a good reason for why we are seeing multiple introductions of Medium format Cameras...If these leading camera companies think there is such a market for this product, would Nikon, Canon and Sony be far behind with their own product introductions? we will have to see in the future.

I very much doubt it. Unlike during the film days, medium format digital cameras are a niche market. There are commissions I do which sometimes might benefit from a 100 or 150mp medium format camera, but anything below that is well handled by 42, 45, and 50mp 24x36mm (AKA full frame) cameras.

Of course if there is a solid chance for increased profits (after all of the R&D and tooling for new bodies and lenses, and marketing and distribution costs, are accounted for) then sure, anything is possible.

 

[nathantw]

I have many photos of people and things on the move taken with medium format. Not sure why you think they can't be used for that. Is it because it can't shoot 30fps like a video camera?

 

[olyflyer]

OMG, all you people with "theories" on how or why you would shoot medium format is just hilarious. "Can't shoot wide open because depth of field is paper thin." Uh, no it isn't. It's usually f/2.8 or f/4. Is that usually paper thin in full format? No. Well, it isn't in medium format either.

"Medium format is for product and still lifes." Again, nope. It's for whatever makes you happy.

Instead of guessing and spreading false information, why not go out and actually buy and use it? It's not that expensive and for the price of a D850 body you can buy a pretty good Hasselblad outfit and definitely a lot of other brand products.

As for why all the medium formats? Because the photographic industry is hurting for sales and the next big thing (so to speak) is medium format. They want sales. They want to sell you new lenses and new bodies. I don't think the 44x33 sensors give a whole lot of difference between full frame, but that's not stopping people from buying it.

All the photos below are 85% quality and reduced down further than necessary so they may not look sharp, but they are.

No studio here:

Not too paper thin:

and some other examples:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/nathantw/albums/72157681384071001/with/34369569321/

You missed the points by MILES.... and your images proof exactly the opposite of what you are trying to proof...

BTW, just to make it clear once again for you, I said what I said about MF concerning low light BIF use of MF... please show me some of those examples, not these, which could have been taken with ANY camera, not requiring MF and not showing the benefits of it.

 

[olyflyer]

I have many photos of people and things on the move taken with medium format. Not sure why you think they can't be used for that. Is it because it can't shoot 30fps like a video camera?

The question is not if MF can be used for this or that, but more like if it is the proper tool or not. And in my opinion MF is NOT the right tool for BIF and other action shots, and if you can't see that then you have no clue about the subject.

But please, proof me wrong. Post some examples... but note that "people and things on the move taken with medium format" is not the same as action and BIF...

Right tool for the right purpose. MF is definitely not the right tool for every purpose, you are fooling yourself if you believe it is.