What's wrong with modern printers...

[Keith Cooper]

After lots of gripes/praise/suggestions/demands for changes/improvements in printers, I put together a video covering a few issues.

It's intended to elicit comments/suggestions/requests
...which I suspect, may well be read ;-) ;-)



Since it's ~19mins long, here's a timeline

• 00:00 Start
• 00:20 It's about photo and art printers
• 00:36 Some smaller printers too
• 01:10 What annoys me when testing printers
• 01:23 Yes, it could be your fault
• 02:15 Have printers plateaued?
• 02:58 What about inks
• 03:30 Pigments?
• 04:00 More inks?
• 04:30 Clear coatings
• 05:20 Paper handling
• 06:20 Is your new printer broken?
• 07:08 What about roll paper?
• 07:59 Borderless
• 09:11 Straight through print path
• 09:58 Screens and usability
• 10:34 Dialogue text
• 11:02 Colour management
• 11:38 The secrets of media settings
• 12:40 Black and White
• 13:44 Print software - new features
• 14:30 Upscaling/sharpening
• 14:55 What printer makers can't do
• 15:27 The economics
• 16:40 No gamechanging technologies?
• 17:45 What matters for you? - AMA

A few aspects which matter for my own printing.

Note that I'm specifically restricting this to 'better' printer, i.e. 13" width and above. I'm not wandering through the weeds of office/home office/cheap printers... ;-)

 

[UpAndPrinting]

Thank you for posting this! I've watched a few of your videos in the past years and have always found them insightful and down to earth.

 

[paulraphael]

Very nice overview.

Not the point of the video, but it was helpful to see what an Epson 5300 actually looks like when posed next to a person. That certainly removed it from my wish list. They look so cute in web images.

Also apropos of nothing, time constraints forced me to watch at 1.5X speed, which gave a fun sense of what Keith would be like after 7 or 8 espressos.

 

[bmw44]

Very nice overview.

Not the point of the video, but it was helpful to see what an Epson 5300 actually looks like when posed next to a person. That certainly removed it from my wish list. They look so cute in web images.

Also apropos of nothing, time constraints forced me to watch at 1.5X speed, which gave a fun sense of what Keith would be like after 7 or 8 espressos.

I like you suggestion of watching at 1.5X speed. I find Keith's videos helpful, but at times rather long winded. I can always slow down when wanting to focus on one part.

Thanks again for your post.

 

[Keith Cooper]

Very nice overview.

Thanks

Not the point of the video, but it was helpful to see what an Epson 5300 actually looks like when posed next to a person. That certainly removed it from my wish list. They look so cute in web images.

And 70+ kg

Also apropos of nothing, time constraints forced me to watch at 1.5X speed, which gave a fun sense of what Keith would be like after 7 or 8 espressos.

3-4 would suffice on a good day ;-)

 

[Keith Cooper]

Very nice overview.

Not the point of the video, but it was helpful to see what an Epson 5300 actually looks like when posed next to a person. That certainly removed it from my wish list. They look so cute in web images.

Also apropos of nothing, time constraints forced me to watch at 1.5X speed, which gave a fun sense of what Keith would be like after 7 or 8 espressos.

I like you suggestion of watching at 1.5X speed. I find Keith's videos helpful, but at times rather long winded.

I've heard this same comment from Karen, my wife, and the other half of Northlight Images ;-)

I can always slow down when wanting to focus on one part.

Thanks again for your post.

 

[gipper51]

Good video as always Mr. Cooper!

My biggest gripe is that all of the concerns for me with modern 17" consumer inkjets have been addressed by either Canon or Epson already. Problem is each printers has unique problems the other doesn't! Pick your poison.

With the P900, finally when it seems like Epson's clogging reputation is behind them (and are actually frugal and clog free), now we have mechanical issues that should be solved at this stage. Feels like 1 step forward, 1 step back.

Pro 1000 seems mechanically solid, but plagued with high maintenance consumption. Seems like you have to be a slave to the machine or run automated print scripts to avoid 1/2 the the ink in the waste tank.

Seems so simple, but why can't we get a Canon with the frugality of a P900, or a P900 with the reliability of a Pro 1000?!

The problems are solved, patiently waiting for somebody to put out the complete package. Based on the Pro 300 and #600 series data, here's hoping the Pro 1000 successor is everything I'm hoping it should be.

 

[paulraphael]

Problem is each printers has unique problems the other doesn't! Pick your poison.

When I asked a friend who owns a commercial printing studio for buying advice, he said, "I hate Epson for the clogs; I hate Canon for the paper handling."

This was a while ago ... he might hate different things today.

 

[Scott_Eaton]

What's wrong is none of them look as good as my carbon rigs did for B&W, and the glossy ones need a thicker receptor coating to better emulate polyester based RA4 papers.



I'm being a bit sarcastic. Keith is on the point as always,

 

[Stan Disbrow]

Hi,

Good Lord, man! Keith has too much energy *before* any Espresso!

Anyway, yes. It's Big. I have the 5000 here. I had the same issue. I ordered it and hadn't seen one until it showed up here. Fit thru the front door on a wooden cart I already had for it. Would not go thru the bedroom door where it was going to live. I had to remove the door and then it only just fit thru the doorway.





And I thought the Direct To Garment printer was large and heavy.





Ah, well. At least I got both to fit where I wanted them to be.

Stan

--
Amateur Photographer
Professional Electronics Development Engineer

 

[Philip Eihuyar]

After lots of gripes/praise/suggestions/demands for changes/improvements in printers, I put together a video covering a few issues.

It's intended to elicit comments/suggestions/requests
...which I suspect, may well be read ;-) ;-)
A few aspects which matter for my own printing.

Note that I'm specifically restricting this to 'better' printer, i.e. 13" width and above. I'm not wandering through the weeds of office/home office/cheap printers... ;-)

First - Thanks a lot for all the reviews which are critical for choosing which printer as well as how to best use a printer.

Another thanks for the previous post listing an index of your many reviews:

https://www.northlight-images.co.uk/keith-cooper-photography-videos-index/#prin5300

One thing in the back of my mind ( I've noticed in people's homes) is people who forget about their printer (mostly smaller cheap type) for many months and then are forced to landfill what could be a useful printer for many years because of non-use. Just an instruction manual clearly stating what will happen if it just sits gathering dust. For ALL printers, an automatic program to print a small printout on a reasonable schedule as a given included in printer.

For all printers, replaceable waste ink collection pads. With some printers [ex: Canon Pro 10 and Pro 300 and Pro 200] once the waste ink pad is full, the whole thing has to be junked and replaced. Good for the manufacturers but really bad for the environment. More and more of a big deal.

You mentioned about a high quality printer that is user refillable with OEM inks. I am not sure how, if the manufactures are selling the ink for profit, it would not be profitable to them to offer tank printers.

You are being too polite in regards to paper handling with some printers. From reading so many complaints from P900 users, I wonder how real (prevalent) this issue is. Is it occurring in one in a hundred printers or less. or more. Is it that the users are using printer wrong or an inconsistency in the manufacturing process.

Your mentioning about a full gloss overcoat option is a good suggestion and would protect against UV and air pollutants. Hats off to all the producers of these highly complex machines.

 

[ken5678]

After lots of gripes/praise/suggestions/demands for changes/improvements in printers, I put together a video covering a few issues.

It's intended to elicit comments/suggestions/requests
...which I suspect, may well be read ;-) ;-)
A few aspects which matter for my own printing.

Note that I'm specifically restricting this to 'better' printer, i.e. 13" width and above. I'm not wandering through the weeds of office/home office/cheap printers... ;-)

First - Thanks a lot for all the reviews which are critical for choosing which printer as well as how to best use a printer.

Another thanks for the previous post listing an index of your many reviews:

https://www.northlight-images.co.uk/keith-cooper-photography-videos-index/#prin5300

One thing in the back of my mind ( I've noticed in people's homes) is people who forget about their printer (mostly smaller cheap type) for many months and then are forced to landfill what could be a useful printer for many years because of non-use. Just an instruction manual clearly stating what will happen if it just sits gathering dust. For ALL printers, an automatic program to print a small printout on a reasonable schedule as a given included in printer.

For all printers, replaceable waste ink collection pads. With some printers [ex: Canon Pro 10 and Pro 300 and Pro 200] once the waste ink pad is full, the whole thing has to be junked and replaced. Good for the manufacturers but really bad for the environment. More and more of a big deal.

You mentioned about a high quality printer that is user refillable with OEM inks. I am not sure how, if the manufactures are selling the ink for profit, it would not be profitable to them to offer tank printers.

You are being too polite in regards to paper handling with some printers. From reading so many complaints from P900 users, I wonder how real (prevalent) this issue is. Is it occurring in one in a hundred printers or less. or more. Is it that the users are using printer wrong or an inconsistency in the manufacturing process.

Your mentioning about a full gloss overcoat option is a good suggestion and would protect against UV and air pollutants. Hats off to all the producers of these highly complex machines.

I'll 'second' the part about clear information in the owner's manual and literature. This is essentially cost free, and really save a lot of anguish for many (and potentially a lot of 'bitching' from others):

-- clog prevention (typically run nozzle check weekly, etc)

-- how to clean internally (i.e. wiper blade on epson)

-- effect of borderless printing (related to how to clean internally)

-- how to handle bad clogs ( windex / other cleaner on head)

-- life expectancy (especially with models with non-replaceable waste pads)

-- what does 'ink warning' mean. how low can you use ink cartridge, what happens when a cartridge runs out. ( with epson, it can run out / be replaced mid-print and is typically fine.).

..... of course people do not necessarily read the specs, as noted by so many questions on this forum being easily answerable from the manual. or people don't necessarily follow the specs, such as which papers work with which paper feeds , but that's my biggest fixable item.

 

[just Tony]

Also apropos of nothing, time constraints forced me to watch at 1.5X speed, which gave a fun sense of what Keith would be like after 7 or 8 espressos.

He does have that button that buys him a cup of coffee… click it 7 or 8 times?

I do like to thank him for the service he provides! However the timing of his coffee consumption is outside of my control, it’s like pushing on a rope.

--
Wag more; bark less.

 

[just Tony]

Problem is each printers has unique problems the other doesn't! Pick your poison.

When I asked a friend who owns a commercial printing studio for buying advice, he said, "I hate Epson for the clogs; I hate Canon for the paper handling."

This was a while ago ... he might hate different things today.

There’s an easy way to solve the gaps that can occasionally appear in Epson nozzle checks. I freely admit that those were too persistent some 3 generations ago. Nowadays the “Chicken Little” angst seems anachronistic.

--
Wag more; bark less.

 

[just Tony]

Anyway, yes. It's Big. I have the 5000 here. I had the same issue. I ordered it and hadn't seen one until it showed up here. Fit thru the front door on a wooden cart I already had for it. Would not go thru the bedroom door where it was going to live. I had to remove the door and then it only just fit thru the doorway.

My not-burly wife (who was not thrilled when the printer arrived on a wooden pallet), not-burly daughter and I finessed ours down a narrow flight of stairs into the basement. Only because I had removed the roll feeder (just one little screw - that seemed FAR to easy and simple) we had only 3/4" clearance at the door at the bottom.



Hey Epson, feel free to include one of those on the pallet!

My inspiration for the carrying tray:



We took much more care with our load than Blondie and Tuco did with theirs!

--
Wag more; bark less.

 

[PanoSteve]

Two for the development engineers:
The combination of G7 and N-channel characterisation would be an interesting research area for inkjets. N-channel characterisation has been doable with current OSs for years for the output part of the print chain, but how to handle it for colour proofs would need to be considered.

Characterisation and CMM s/w could do with more competition and innovation. The science is probably vastly out running the s/w by now. In the high end we ought to be in an era of smart CMMs and processing of things like gamut mapping and apperance models. iccMax was standardised in 2019 for example.