BigBadSiggy
New member
This used to be a place where I browse for info regarding my SD14 and DP1. Now it's a pool of negativity.
This is quite depressing.
This is quite depressing.
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What is going on?
- Thread starter BigBadSiggy
- Start date
Phil Loughran
Senior Member
Welcome to the SF! That is if you are a newbie and not an oldie hiding their true identity!!
I think this negativity is due to people saying 'enough is enough'. Sigma owners genuinely see a benefit in some images in using a rather unique sensor. I think the problem has arisen where the cameras don't live up to the price/performance/reliability expectations of buyers, or in the case of SD1 owners, potential owners.
When I look at my purchase history and experience of Sigma cameras, I should be thinking WHY?...Why did I continue to buy this brand after such poor experience of mediocre products. The SD10 with poor internal cleanliness, shedding of internal debris and grease onto the sensor, and possibly the worst power supply issues I have experienced on any product with a battery. The SD14 too, didn't live up to expectations, colour consistancy, lock ups etc. The DP1 who's battery drained so quickly, (yet buying a later second one which didn't suffer the same drainage), but which Sigma UK claimed was normal behaviour and wouldn't do anything under warranty. The DP2 I bought very cheap and shouldn't complain too much about it, and doesn't suffer the same power problems. It seems to have been a 'good 'un'
Now I don't only use Sigma Products, and I have far too many digital cameras to compare the Sigma's to. These range from compacts to dslr's to CSC's. The foveon images do have a 'look"...but when you lose images from CF card's because of lock-ups or power failure, you can't totally trust the Sigma's, which then relegates them to nice to have but I'll use other cameras which I do trust and do give 'good enough' images.
I was locked into the Sigma dSLR's due to the commitment I made in Sigma mount lenses, not through a real desire to continue using the SD range. At times I feel mugged by the positive experiences recorded by the Sigmites here, because the cameras seem so variable, which to me indicates issues of quality control. I ended up with the SD14 because Jessops was dumping the stock from an initial £1100 down to £399 in a relatively short period of time...( I think Sigma was also offering £100 (or so) cashback at the time too, which made it a cheap buy....but not a great buy ...and then the 'debugged SD14' comes out...the SD15...
It's like Sigma releases products too early...and then with other ones..way too late after extended development periods and redesign delays.
Then comes the promised Canon 7D priced Sigma SD1 at a literally astounding price for yet another mediocre body.....
I think the gripes are valid ones...the enthusiasts that have COMMITTED to Sigma lenses and bodies feel really let down by some crazy corporate strategy with the SD1....pricing it way above it's market value....but then this is my humble opinion too.
I think this negativity is due to people saying 'enough is enough'. Sigma owners genuinely see a benefit in some images in using a rather unique sensor. I think the problem has arisen where the cameras don't live up to the price/performance/reliability expectations of buyers, or in the case of SD1 owners, potential owners.
When I look at my purchase history and experience of Sigma cameras, I should be thinking WHY?...Why did I continue to buy this brand after such poor experience of mediocre products. The SD10 with poor internal cleanliness, shedding of internal debris and grease onto the sensor, and possibly the worst power supply issues I have experienced on any product with a battery. The SD14 too, didn't live up to expectations, colour consistancy, lock ups etc. The DP1 who's battery drained so quickly, (yet buying a later second one which didn't suffer the same drainage), but which Sigma UK claimed was normal behaviour and wouldn't do anything under warranty. The DP2 I bought very cheap and shouldn't complain too much about it, and doesn't suffer the same power problems. It seems to have been a 'good 'un'
Now I don't only use Sigma Products, and I have far too many digital cameras to compare the Sigma's to. These range from compacts to dslr's to CSC's. The foveon images do have a 'look"...but when you lose images from CF card's because of lock-ups or power failure, you can't totally trust the Sigma's, which then relegates them to nice to have but I'll use other cameras which I do trust and do give 'good enough' images.
I was locked into the Sigma dSLR's due to the commitment I made in Sigma mount lenses, not through a real desire to continue using the SD range. At times I feel mugged by the positive experiences recorded by the Sigmites here, because the cameras seem so variable, which to me indicates issues of quality control. I ended up with the SD14 because Jessops was dumping the stock from an initial £1100 down to £399 in a relatively short period of time...( I think Sigma was also offering £100 (or so) cashback at the time too, which made it a cheap buy....but not a great buy ...and then the 'debugged SD14' comes out...the SD15...
It's like Sigma releases products too early...and then with other ones..way too late after extended development periods and redesign delays.
Then comes the promised Canon 7D priced Sigma SD1 at a literally astounding price for yet another mediocre body.....
I think the gripes are valid ones...the enthusiasts that have COMMITTED to Sigma lenses and bodies feel really let down by some crazy corporate strategy with the SD1....pricing it way above it's market value....but then this is my humble opinion too.
worldcup1982
Senior Member
LOL...the one million dollar question....
humble, but extremelly accurate...congrats....
ToasterFlyer
Senior Member
BBS,
To get your answer, ask Sigma.
Rich
ny
This forum and their camera+SA mount lens biz is going down da tubes, and fast!!
Mostly Lurking
Senior Member
Since is isn't within their budget, Sigma is evil incarnate and all Sigma products are junk. Small minds make big noises, and if that thought offends anyone . . . too bad!
--
William Wilgus
--
William Wilgus
Phil Loughran
Senior Member
ML, Sounds like you're happy with mediocre products at premium prices, with attrocious quality control...happy with the status quo...good luck to you!
Roland Karlsson
Forum Pro
If you used to browse this forum, what happened to your old account ?
That aside - what happened may be that its still only 2006 year sensor cameras that can be bought at a reasonable price. The SD15 is the newest and hottest stuff there is ... except the SD1 that Sigma decided to sell as a collectors item.
--
Roland
support http://www.openraw.org/
(Sleeping - so the need to support it is even higher)
X3F tools : http://www.proxel.se/x3f.html
That aside - what happened may be that its still only 2006 year sensor cameras that can be bought at a reasonable price. The SD15 is the newest and hottest stuff there is ... except the SD1 that Sigma decided to sell as a collectors item.
--
Roland
support http://www.openraw.org/
(Sleeping - so the need to support it is even higher)
X3F tools : http://www.proxel.se/x3f.html
yvind Strm
Senior Member
Hmm, you must have a pretty big nose, then.
Sorry if that offended you .... too bad.
Kind regards
Øyvind
My best images:
http://foto.nordjylland.biz/porta/Portfolio/Best/album/index.html
http://www.pbase.com/norwegianviking/sd14
SD14 Compendium:
http://www.foto.nordjylland.biz/SD14/sd-usertips.htm
Sorry if that offended you .... too bad.
--
Kind regards
Øyvind
My best images:
http://foto.nordjylland.biz/porta/Portfolio/Best/album/index.html
http://www.pbase.com/norwegianviking/sd14
SD14 Compendium:
http://www.foto.nordjylland.biz/SD14/sd-usertips.htm
whisky
Senior Member
I have got to totally agree with you on this one, it really is quite sad and unfortunately reflects the attitude of a very large number of contributors. I don't know if there is a geographical influence on this ?
Why don't they stop trying to run SIGMA's business and get back to photography ?? Most of them would appear able to benefit if they were to change from Sigma to some other brand and see if that were any better. Personally as far as Sigma UK is concerned, their service and support is superb.
There also exists a group of self indulgent congratulatory individuals who can, to say the least, be a bit embarrassing.
In fairness, I have learned several very useful things from those who restrict their contributions to helpful advice and are pleased to enlighten others with the benefit of their experience.
In the threads which your post has received, it seems, that, like the 'Sandbaggers' who exist in the Challenge voting system, the nature of postings will continue as before.
I was however encouraged by Roland Karlsson's positive reply. As one, with whom I have had past discord but who obviously has a great depth of knowledge on 'Teckie' Sigma, his comment, on this post, for such a prolific contributor was, at the very least, positive.
Cheers.
S
Scott Greiff
Guest
I use the "Ignore User" checkbox and it cleans the forum right up!
-Scott
--
http://www.lightriverphoto.com
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/scottalangreiff/popular-interesting/
BigBadSiggy
New member
newbie to posting but definitely oldie by age.
I've never had much time to participate, I've alway read some of the articles here while I wait for the wife to close up the register. Now that my daughter has taken over, I have much time for me.
Anywho, some of these negativity seems pointless to me. It's fine that people are unhappy about the price but who would that affect their photography? I keep at it with my SD14 and the only lens I have which is the 18-200OS.
Well, thanks for all the insights, I suppose I'll chime in once in a while after I get used to all these free time I have now. now I have a garage to clean.
I've never had much time to participate, I've alway read some of the articles here while I wait for the wife to close up the register. Now that my daughter has taken over, I have much time for me.
Anywho, some of these negativity seems pointless to me. It's fine that people are unhappy about the price but who would that affect their photography? I keep at it with my SD14 and the only lens I have which is the 18-200OS.
Well, thanks for all the insights, I suppose I'll chime in once in a while after I get used to all these free time I have now. now I have a garage to clean.
DaSonyGuy
Forum Pro
Have you been drinking too much whisky, whisky? Sober up, and you'll get the big picture!
None of us here are Sigma fans...Hovever we are all Foveon X3 sensor fans.
The problem is the Foveon X3 sensor is now in the hands of a bunch of bungling, drug crazed, radiation riddled, incompetants, who quite frankly could'nt run a p!ss up in a brewery!
Sure we could switch brands but then we would miss the unique image quality we enjoy from our Foveon X3 sensor endowed cameras. For years now, we have all waited very patiently for a worthy upgrade path from our current cameras.
Then finally, The SD1 was announced, and all our prayers seems to be awnsered!
We were even told what the likely price would be way ahead of its release (around the same price as the Canon 7D), and many Sigma users started ferreting their money away for the big day when the SD1 would finally be available.
So imagine the initial shock when it was realeased at around 10 times that "likely" price!
Widespread shock turned to widespread dis-belief...Surely the price was a misprint?...Maybe they put the decimal point in the wrong place?...Maybe they added an extra numeral by mistake?...Everyone was searching for confirmation of what seemed an utterly perposterous price.
However, when that confirmation came, all that dis-belief quickly turned to anger because we knew that Sigma, the company we all trusted, had deliberately lied to us about the price and then they had the sheer gall to say they did'nt want the likes of us using it, only extremely weathly pro photographers...The final slap in the face came when Kazuto Yamaki, COO of Sigma, tweeted that he thought the SD1 was worth the utterly rediculous price.
Sigma were not our friends anymore, they were our mortal enemies, who just so happened to be keeping our beloved Foveon hostage. Only a tiny handfull of individuals here have large enough bank balance to be able to "pay the ransom" and buy an SD1...For most of us though, that door has been slammed painfully in our faces...You dont need to be an Elephant to have a long memory and rest assured, Sigma's stinking treachery will not be quickly forgotten!
Chunsum J Choi
Veteran Member
That's disrespectful Alf.
--
http://www.pbase.com/sigmadslr (Sigma Users Gallery)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/chunsum (Active Gallery)
http://www.pbase.com/chunsum (Not So Active Gallery)
Ed_S
Veteran Member
When I joined shortly after the release of the SD9, I used to get drawn into some of the bitterer debates, got defensive myself, etc. I've had/am having some life experiences since then that have caused me to reconsider. As another wag hereabouts has said, "If they can't kill you for it . . . "
I have no known (to me) enemies on this forum - although I'm sure I've offended some over the years. Mea culpa. I come here as I would a coffee shop or club setting to kick back with friends and others who share a common interest. There's where for me the tipping point occurs. Each member has his/her own communication style and it seems their own reasons for coming here. Long before the SD1 debacle there was a certain amount of tension between those who were/are more critical and those who generally looked past the warts and ideosyncrasies of both camera and company. When the naysayers (rightly or wrongly) crossed a certain line, those more patient with the hardware and the corporation became exasperated, the ad hominem exchanges rose to the top, (mostly) satisfied Sigma users were branded "fanboys", the Sigma enthusiasts were labeled as unfair to the critics, stupid, etc. ad nauseum.
Now, to be fair, very few folks were intractible in their positions. Sometimes even amiable members blew up. But overall, despite I'm sure objections from either extreme, most folks were willing to give some balance to the conversation. If you infer "always" or "never", I'd bet that person sits toward one pole or another.
There are those who seemingly come here for the zest of the debate, to be sticklers for shortcomings of the brand, to vent their (presumably) honest frustrations, and so on. That's not "wrong" but after a while, I think most of us react negatively to even a close friend constantly telling us the worst of their life. Personally, I think simply ignoring those threads or posters with whom you don't wish to do battle usually gives a deafening silence and after a time, the sport of skewering one another loses its glamor. Or so it seems to me.
Regards,
--
Ed_S
http://www.pbase.com/ecsquires
Roland Karlsson
Forum Pro
Calm down DSG
There is much truth in what you write - but neither attacking posters here nor attacking the owners of Sigma is necessary.
Yes - they killed our dreams. But - its their company and their patent. They have no obligation to fulfil our dreams.
If I was somewhat younger and had the right knowledge and position I would have made you and me an alternative direct color sensor - it cannot be all that hard - if you really want to make one. It just takes dedication. And money
The Bayer CFA is unfortunately a very efficient solution. And there is a high economical barrier to break to get anything else to market. But even that can be managed. Just convince Sony or Samsung.
Sigma is wrong though - as they again and again have proved.
--
Roland
support http://www.openraw.org/
(Sleeping - so the need to support it is even higher)
X3F tools : http://www.proxel.se/x3f.html
There is much truth in what you write - but neither attacking posters here nor attacking the owners of Sigma is necessary.
Yes - they killed our dreams. But - its their company and their patent. They have no obligation to fulfil our dreams.
If I was somewhat younger and had the right knowledge and position I would have made you and me an alternative direct color sensor - it cannot be all that hard - if you really want to make one. It just takes dedication. And money
The Bayer CFA is unfortunately a very efficient solution. And there is a high economical barrier to break to get anything else to market. But even that can be managed. Just convince Sony or Samsung.
Sigma is wrong though - as they again and again have proved.
--
Roland
support http://www.openraw.org/
(Sleeping - so the need to support it is even higher)
X3F tools : http://www.proxel.se/x3f.html
Mostly Lurking
Senior Member
whisky
Senior Member
After reading your post I think I need another !!!
OK the SD1 price was well above all expectations, just goes to show, 'you don't count your chickens till they hatch'!!
An utterly preposterous price. In yours and many others disappointed opinion
'Sigma, the company we all trusted' ??? You have just said , 'none of us here are Sigma fans' ?? had deliberately lied to us about the price and then they had the sheer gall to say they did'nt want the likes of us using it, only extremely weathly pro photographers...The final slap in the face came when Kazuto Yamaki, COO of Sigma, tweeted that he thought the SD1 was worth the utterly rediculous price.
That's pretty strong stuff.
I suggest perhaps it would be best for you to have a large Whisky yourself, calm down a bit, and perhaps try and get out and about a bit more.
Cheers.
That action could be construed as being the most severe form of negativity possible.
Just sayin'
whisky
Senior Member
Good idea Scott, this one of the best suggestions I have seen yet !!!
Only problem is, perhaps there would not be much Sigma Forum left !! ??
Cheers.
VadymA
Senior Member
I am sorry but how many years do we need to discuss ONE model even if that model is as quircky as SD14 (replace with SD9, SD10, DP1,DP2)? It has been on the market for what 5-6 years now? Even if we were all mentally retarded this time would probably be enough to know everything we need to know.
Go to any other forum (except Leica maybe) and what will you see? Pure excitement only replaced with euphoria about new models. I am seriously considering replacing my DP2 with Pana LZ150 supersoom. The quality is so good I don't care about Foveon look any more or large sensor. There is no negativity on other forums. When I come back to Sigma forum, I feel like the time has stopped here back in 2006. Hens our frustration.
We were patiently waiting for so long for good news from Sigma and what did they get in exchange? A slap in the face with SD1. Well, should we say thank you and go back to play with our ancient tools? I don't think so. Sigma deserved our protest with out mouth and wallets.
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