VR: Why you should turn it off when it's not needed

em_dee_aitch

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The question of whether you should turn off VR at higher shutter speeds frequently comes up in this forum and others, due to the fact that VR has a useful limit (probably around 1/500sec shutter speed) and may actually degrade the image at higher shutter speeds.

Personally, I have found it rare to easily see an actual usage case in which this degradation is painfully obvious, but last week I finally did. Note that this is not a VR bash, and I love VR (on long lenses anyway, not on wide angles, as that's a different topic entirely), and I use VR all the time. However, it is important to know when not to use it.

At a wedding last week, there was a great skyline view, so I decided I was going to pan a quick skyline in between shooting reception guests. When I reviewed my shots, what I saw was that the image was strongly degraded on the left side of the frame (when shooting vertically). The focus was set to manual for the panorama, so AF variation was definitely not a factor.

Here are two shots from that panning of the skyline. You can see the same subject matter in different parts of the frame as I pan, with degradation clear:





After I saw that I knew I needed to isolate it to one of the following factors.

1. The 1.4x TC I was using
2. Centering error in the lens
3. VR
4. Camera shake

AF was already eliminated, as previously noted.

To test/eliminate those factors, I went back out the next day and shot one of the same sky scrapers from a distance again. To eliminate the TC, I shot with and without it. To eliminate lens centering, I shot with the camera rotated in 180 degree opposite positions. To eliminate camera shake, I simply searched for any consistent evidence of handshake effecting the VR off shots, and there was none (though in the interest of general knowledge, there was at least 1 VR off frame in which camera shake was apparent, event at very high shutter speed).

In the end, the factor that clearly reproduced the degradation behavior was turning VR on. Turning it of resolved the behavior.

Here are examples showing VR degradation in different parts of the frame, with and without TC 1.4x:







Keep in mind when viewing these that the factor which explains why VR would only effect part of a frame is that at these shutter speeds, the exposure is effectively taken by a scanning slit between the shutter curtains, because only a portion of the frame can be exposed at once at these shutter speeds, as they are stops beyond x-sync. Thus you can conclude that the state of the VR mechanism is not consistent throughout the entire exposure, and that at its very best a VR exposure, within its effective shutter speed range, is probably not as good as the best non-VR exposure, while of course VR can allow you to get certain shots that can never be had in a non-VR method.

The lens used for all shots above was 70-200 VR2. The first two shots show unconverted NEF previews. Due to the limitations of preview files embedded in NEFs, the effect would be even stronger if the shots were converted due to the extra detail revealed in the superior shot (however, since the effect was still quite clear, I did not bother on those two). For the latter three shots, you do see post-converted JPEGs, which were converted with no sharpening whatsoever, as to keep from obscuring the actual effect.

--
David Hill
http://www.sfbayweddingphotographer.com
San Francisco, CA | Austin, TX
Certified Wedding Photography Junky™
 
.... Due to the limitations of preview files embedded in NEFs, the effect would be even stronger if the shots were converted due to the extra detail revealed in the superior shot ...
Correction: By superior shot what I really meant was unaffected portion of the frame .
--
David Hill
http://www.sfbayweddingphotographer.com
San Francisco, CA | Austin, TX
Certified Wedding Photography Junky™
 
Interesting idea about the high shutter speed catching the decentering of the VR lenses in the act, causing one side to suffer from image degradation. However, I doublt it's the slit effect, and more of the fact that the VR lens set is decentered at capture, causing one side of the image to be worse than the other.

However, from your shots, it's obvious that the atmosphere between you and the target was suffering from thermal turbulence. If so, it's possible that you also had transitory turbulence that would affect different parts of the view.

I would definitely retest on a much closer target to ensure it isn't a transitory atmospheric effect you're seeing. I'd hate to come to the wrong conclusion because of an atmospheric effect, say a bubble of hot air rising up when you took one picture but not there in another.
 
Interesting idea about the high shutter speed catching the decentering of the VR lenses in the act, causing one side to suffer from image degradation. However, I doublt it's the slit effect, and more of the fact that the VR lens set is decentered at capture, causing one side of the image to be worse than the other.
Yep, you might be totally correct. I'm not set up to measure it that finely... I kinda like your idea better than mine actually... Probably a mixture of both.
However, from your shots, it's obvious that the atmosphere between you and the target was suffering from thermal turbulence. If so, it's possible that you also had transitory turbulence that would affect different parts of the view.
Interesting thought. I don't doubt presence of thermal effects in the air, but: both days on which these shots occurred were relatively cool for Texas, so the temp effects were not at their summer extremes; secondly, the VR on/off difference is pretty consistent through my shots (several dozen, not all pictured here), making it appear to be the dominant factor. Also, on the panning shot the consecutive images were only taken a second or two apart, meaning that thermal effect would probably be the same in both since thermal effects tend to hang around for longer than 1 second.
I would definitely retest on a much closer target to ensure it isn't a transitory atmospheric effect you're seeing.
Good idea. I certainly invite others to do so in contribution to this thread. As much as I love wasting time on stuff like this, my time available for wastage is limited.

--
David Hill
http://www.sfbayweddingphotographer.com
San Francisco, CA | Austin, TX
Certified Wedding Photography Junky™
 
I would hope that VR is usable at much higher speeds than 1/500sec without any kind of degradation to the image.

if the old rule of thumb of 1 times the focal length for hand held shutter speeds is adjusted for DX to 1.5 times the focal length then 1/500th would be the perfect cutoff point for VR in a 300mm lens. If 1/500th were the max effective VR shutter speed for any lens over 300mm on a DX camera you would have a gap between the shutter speed required to reliably not user VR and the 1/500th shutter speed above which VR were not effective.

I would have a real problem if I bought a nikon 600mm VR and I found out that at shutter speeds above 1/500th the VR degraded the image yet I need 1/900th to to reliably get sharp images without it
The question of whether you should turn off VR at higher shutter speeds frequently comes up in this forum and others, due to the fact that VR has a useful limit (probably around 1/500sec shutter speed) and may actually degrade the image at higher shutter speeds.
--
Primary kit - D200, 10.5mm f/2.8D, 35mm f/1.8G, 50mm f/1.4G & 70-300VR
Backup kit – D80, 18-105VR
SB800, SB600 and other misc lighting equipment

Lenses worth mentioning owned and sold– 12-24 f/4, 17-55 f/2.8, 35-70 f/2.8, 80-200 f/2.8, 20mm f/2.8, 35mm f/2, 50mm f/1.8, 50mm f/1.4D, 60mm f/2.8, 85mm, f/1.8. 105mm f/2D-DC, 180mm f/2.8, 300mm f/4D-ED
 
I would have a real problem if I bought a nikon 600mm VR and I found out that at shutter speeds above 1/500th the VR degraded the image yet I need 1/900th to to reliably get sharp images without it
I don't think you'd really have a problem, because you'd end up using either a monopod or tripod at all times. I've never seen anyone hand hold 400/2.8 or 600/4.

--
David Hill
http://www.sfbayweddingphotographer.com
San Francisco, CA | Austin, TX
Certified Wedding Photography Junky™
 
Really interesting. Thanks for taking the time to post.

I have also been wondering about VR and will endeavour to replicate (although sadly I don't have your fine 70-200 VR2)
--
  • PhotoBunny
D700 & iPhone above water; S90 under water.
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I tend to turn VR off as much as possible and particularly in action photography. I have three reasons for that:

1) The VR systems needs to center itself before the exposure to avoid running out of compensating room. This take a small amount of time which is usually not noticeable but when shooting bursts in action photography it can become annoying.

2) VR affects bokeh. It can produce ugly double lines in the background as seen in this picture:



3) The effectiveness of VR goes down dramatically as shutter speeds approach 1/1000s. From the Nikon page on VR tech: "These sensors detect camera movement as angular velocity every 1/1000 second." Then it also takes some time to translate this information into movement of the correcting element so if your shutter speed approaches 1/1000s the VR system becomes unable to react fast enough. I turn VR off at shutterspeeds faster than 1/ effective focal length (to take crop factor into account) or 1/500s.

An additional reason to turn VR off could be that it uses up energy but carrying a spare battery is always a good idea. So VR can be (and is) useful but not always. Like any tool you need to know when and how to use it.

Jarno
--

˙ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs sıɥʇ pɐǝɹ oʇ ƃuıʎɹʇ pɐǝɥ ɹnoʎ ʇןıʇ noʎ uǝɥʍ ʎuunɟ sʞooן ʇı
 
You know, it would seem like an easy feature to add to the camera to turn off the VR at or above a selected shutter speed.
--
Scott
 
I tend to turn VR off as much as possible and particularly in action photography. I have three reasons for that:

1) The VR systems needs to center itself before the exposure to avoid running out of compensating room. This take a small amount of time which is usually not noticeable but when shooting bursts in action photography it can become annoying.

2) VR affects bokeh. It can produce ugly double lines in the background as seen in this picture:



3) The effectiveness of VR goes down dramatically as shutter speeds approach 1/1000s. From the Nikon page on VR tech: "These sensors detect camera movement as angular velocity every 1/1000 second." Then it also takes some time to translate this information into movement of the correcting element so if your shutter speed approaches 1/1000s the VR system becomes unable to react fast enough. I turn VR off at shutterspeeds faster than 1/ effective focal length (to take crop factor into account) or 1/500s.

An additional reason to turn VR off could be that it uses up energy but carrying a spare battery is always a good idea. So VR can be (and is) useful but not always. Like any tool you need to know when and how to use it. It only occurs when background objects are a certain distance behing the subject. I also think the type of background has certain elements that lend it's selve to cause those lines.

Jarno
--

˙ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs sıɥʇ pɐǝɹ oʇ ƃuıʎɹʇ pɐǝɥ ɹnoʎ ʇןıʇ noʎ uǝɥʍ ʎuunɟ sʞooן ʇı
You want to turn VR off to conserve battery power that's fine. To say it causes a probem with high shutter speeds, I have never seen that to be true. But that is a personal decision. I leave mine on all the time with me 500mm f/4VR.

For years I've seen those double or triple lines with my Non-VR 300mm f/4d. I saw it all the time when I was using a Nikon 400mm F/2.8 AF-I Non-VR.

Here is just one of many showing those lines in the background with a Non-VR lens.
I also see it with my 500mm VR.



Full EXIF Info
Date/Time 15-Apr-2008 10:11:03
Make Nikon
Model NIKON D200
Flash Used No
Focal Length 400 mm
Exposure Time 1/2500 sec
Aperture f/6.3
ISO Equivalent 320
Exposure Bias -1
White Balance
Metering Mode matrix (5)
Raw
Exposure Program aperture priority (3)
Focus Distance

--
http://www.pbase.com/ronnie_14187

It's less about the subject and more about the composition & light- Ronnie Gaubert.
 
I'm a strong advocate of turning VR off by default and only using it when absolutely necessary to prevent camera shake.

Yes, at one point I was part of the 'leave it on all the time' crowd, but eventually the degradation in sharpness became an unmistakable fact.

Not only that, but when shooting action I would get much less keepers because the VR would slow autofocus speed. At one point I thought the AF-S motor on my lens was defective, until I turned the VR off and all of a sudden that fixed the autofocus speed problem.

So now what I do is leave VR off all the time unless specifically needed. When I note a shutter speed at an unusually low level, it is only then that I turn VR back on. This usually happens when shooting at dawn or dusk, and trying to keep the ISO down.

Shooting with VR off I think that my results have shown a noticeable improvement. For me, VR is something I use in 'emergencies'. For example, shooting at low shutter speeds when no tripod is available. In these cases, VR makes the images 'presentable', but they are still not as sharp as they would be if fired from a tripod.

--
http://www.southfloridapics.com
 
Scott Kelby states in one of his blogs to turn off the VR at fast shutter speeds, like 1000 when shooting sports as the VR will try and correct for shake that is not there
 
I'm a strong advocate of turning VR off by default and only using it when absolutely necessary to prevent camera shake.

Yes, at one point I was part of the 'leave it on all the time' crowd, but eventually the degradation in sharpness became an unmistakable fact.

Not only that, but when shooting action I would get much less keepers because the VR would slow autofocus speed. At one point I thought the AF-S motor on my lens was defective, until I turned the VR off and all of a sudden that fixed the autofocus speed problem.

So now what I do is leave VR off all the time unless specifically needed. When I note a shutter speed at an unusually low level, it is only then that I turn VR back on. This usually happens when shooting at dawn or dusk, and trying to keep the ISO down.

Shooting with VR off I think that my results have shown a noticeable improvement. For me, VR is something I use in 'emergencies'. For example, shooting at low shutter speeds when no tripod is available. In these cases, VR makes the images 'presentable', but they are still not as sharp as they would be if fired from a tripod.
Good reasoning for how to use VR. I am becoming much more like this too.
--
JohnE
A gallery of some of my images:
http://www.pbase.com/jpower

 
shooting hand held is not the only time you might need to shoot at these shutter speeds and still need VR

I have used VR with my camera on a tripod when shooting from a half day fishing boat. even on the tripod there was the movement of the boat itself and on top of that the vibration from the motor that I had to deal with.

I do believe there are times when shutter speeds over 1/500th are needed due to subject movement where VR is also very important and I would hope that Nikon and Canon have designed their Vr lenses to be able to operate correctly in these conditions. I would also hope that if VR were a problem in these shutter speed ranges that this limitation would be published so that photographers would know to take the appropriate action needed to work around them if possible

JMO
I would have a real problem if I bought a nikon 600mm VR and I found out that at shutter speeds above 1/500th the VR degraded the image yet I need 1/900th to to reliably get sharp images without it
I don't think you'd really have a problem, because you'd end up using either a monopod or tripod at all times. I've never seen anyone hand hold 400/2.8 or 600/4.

--
David Hill
http://www.sfbayweddingphotographer.com
San Francisco, CA | Austin, TX
Certified Wedding Photography Junky™
--
Primary kit - D200, 10.5mm f/2.8D, 35mm f/1.8G, 50mm f/1.4G & 70-300VR
Backup kit – D80, 18-105VR
SB800, SB600 and other misc lighting equipment

Lenses worth mentioning owned and sold– 12-24 f/4, 17-55 f/2.8, 35-70 f/2.8, 80-200 f/2.8, 20mm f/2.8, 35mm f/2, 50mm f/1.8, 50mm f/1.4D, 60mm f/2.8, 85mm, f/1.8. 105mm f/2D-DC, 180mm f/2.8, 300mm f/4D-ED
 
To say it causes a probem with high shutter speeds, I have never seen that to be true.
That's why I didn't say that, I said that its effectiveness goes down rapidly when shutter speed approaches the sampling speed of the system. At such shutter speeds you'd have to have very shaky hands to get blurring so VR might as well be switched off.
For years I've seen those double or triple lines with my Non-VR 300mm f/4d. I saw it all the time when I was using a Nikon 400mm F/2.8 AF-I Non-VR.
Interesting. I have to say that I've never seen this effect on a non-VR lens or one with VR off. What do you think causes this effect then?

Jarno
--

˙ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs sıɥʇ pɐǝɹ oʇ ƃuıʎɹʇ pɐǝɥ ɹnoʎ ʇןıʇ noʎ uǝɥʍ ʎuunɟ sʞooן ʇı
 
I'm a strong advocate of turning VR off by default and only using it when absolutely necessary to prevent camera shake.

Yes, at one point I was part of the 'leave it on all the time' crowd, but eventually the degradation in sharpness became an unmistakable fact.

Not only that, but when shooting action I would get much less keepers because the VR would slow autofocus speed. At one point I thought the AF-S motor on my lens was defective, until I turned the VR off and all of a sudden that fixed the autofocus speed problem.

So now what I do is leave VR off all the time unless specifically needed. When I note a shutter speed at an unusually low level, it is only then that I turn VR back on. This usually happens when shooting at dawn or dusk, and trying to keep the ISO down.

Shooting with VR off I think that my results have shown a noticeable improvement. For me, VR is something I use in 'emergencies'. For example, shooting at low shutter speeds when no tripod is available. In these cases, VR makes the images 'presentable', but they are still not as sharp as they would be if fired from a tripod.
This is my style too. VR off unless I'm sure that it will help the shot.

I've also noticed degraded bokeh when using VR on the 200-400.
--
John
Gallery: http://jfriend.smugmug.com
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What makes you think the sampling speed of the VR system is so directly related to the effective shutter speed?

frankly I would think the sampling speed would have more of a relationship with the speed of the vibration it is counteracting than the shutter speed.

I also dont under stand why a shutter slit moving across the frame that is only exposing one section of the frame at any instant, as is the case at higher shutter speeds, would show VR issues more than slower shutter speeds where the entire frame is being exposed at one time and for a longer time.

It would seem to me that if the elements are de-centering to compensate for the vibration that this would show up more in longer exposures where the elements actually moved as the exposure was being made
To say it causes a probem with high shutter speeds, I have never seen that to be true.
That's why I didn't say that, I said that its effectiveness goes down rapidly when shutter speed approaches the sampling speed of the system. At such shutter speeds you'd have to have very shaky hands to get blurring so VR might as well be switched off.
For years I've seen those double or triple lines with my Non-VR 300mm f/4d. I saw it all the time when I was using a Nikon 400mm F/2.8 AF-I Non-VR.
Interesting. I have to say that I've never seen this effect on a non-VR lens or one with VR off. What do you think causes this effect then?

Jarno
--

˙ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs sıɥʇ pɐǝɹ oʇ ƃuıʎɹʇ pɐǝɥ ɹnoʎ ʇןıʇ noʎ uǝɥʍ ʎuunɟ sʞooן ʇı
--
Primary kit - D200, 10.5mm f/2.8D, 35mm f/1.8G, 50mm f/1.4G & 70-300VR
Backup kit – D80, 18-105VR
SB800, SB600 and other misc lighting equipment

Lenses worth mentioning owned and sold– 12-24 f/4, 17-55 f/2.8, 35-70 f/2.8, 80-200 f/2.8, 20mm f/2.8, 35mm f/2, 50mm f/1.8, 50mm f/1.4D, 60mm f/2.8, 85mm, f/1.8. 105mm f/2D-DC, 180mm f/2.8, 300mm f/4D-ED
 
I also dont under stand why a shutter slit moving across the frame that is only exposing one section of the frame at any instant, as is the case at higher shutter speeds, would show VR issues more than slower shutter speeds where the entire frame is being exposed at one time and for a longer time.
If the VR lens is moving while the slit goes across, one part of the image will be exposed with the lens in one position while another part of the image will be exposed with the lens in a different position. At a slower shutter speed where the shutter is open all the time, the entire image will see the same range of motion of the VR lens.

If the VR lens was perfect and introduced no distortions or degradations of any kind based on it's location, then the moving slit could produce the same image. But, if there are some sorts of image degradation as the decentered VR lens moves to a different position, then one will see different degradations in different parts of the image when exposed with the moving slit.

In my shooting, I've noticed significant differences in bokeh quality in some shots with VR on. Since this degradation in bokeh does not happen with VR off, I've guessed it can be attributed to shots taken with a decentered VR lens (when it's near one end of it's range) and that this is an example of some degradation that can happens with VR.

--
John
Gallery: http://jfriend.smugmug.com
Popular: http://jfriend.smugmug.com/popular
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I also dont under stand why a shutter slit moving across the frame that is only exposing one section of the frame at any instant, as is the case at higher shutter speeds, would show VR issues more than slower shutter speeds where the entire frame is being exposed at one time and for a longer time.
The effect at a given spot, and the transition to unaffected spots, is better "frozen" by the higher speed/narrow slit. With a slower exposure and wider slit (or full frame exposure), the motion of the VR system combined with any residual vibration that it can't quell could lessen the harshness of the transition and also make the better part of the image softer.
It would seem to me that if the elements are de-centering to compensate for the vibration that this would show up more in longer exposures where the elements actually moved as the exposure was being made
I tend to disagree for the reason noted above, and also because with slower speeds expectations are lowered, and you're more likely to say "wow, I can't believe VR got me that shot" :)

--
David Hill
http://www.sfbayweddingphotographer.com
San Francisco, CA | Austin, TX
Certified Wedding Photography Junky™
 
It would seem to me that if the elements are de-centering to compensate for the vibration that this would show up more in longer exposures where the elements actually moved as the exposure was being made
Ahh, but the point of the elements moving during the exposure is to compensate for the motion of the lens and thus provide an image that is itself not moving on the sensor. Obviously, no system is perfect in this regard, but the idea for the VR lens in motion is to stabilize the image and make it move less on the sensor than it would have been moving with the moving VR lens.

So, slower exposures are always more subject to lens motion, but the moving VR lens is trying to counteract at least some of the motion.

--
John
Gallery: http://jfriend.smugmug.com
Popular: http://jfriend.smugmug.com/popular
Portfolio: http://jfriend.smugmug.com/portfolio
 

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