The war on error

dragon69190981

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Hi to 300D forum readers. This is my first post. Read it. Don't read it. Up to you. :)

My post refers to the mail from Canon received by jorgexka.
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1031&message=6651184

The mail contains a paragraph:

"Decisions to include or exclude a particular camera feature are made by our engineers and product designers in Japan, based on a number of factors. Consumer demand, technological limitations, and customer feedback are all taken in to consideration."

We'll begin this analysis with a look at the technological limitations in the DR preventing FEC from being added. There are none. The camera is well equipped to deal with this feature. Saying the ROM the firmware is loaded on to doesn't have enough room isn't really a legitimate argument considering the 10D firmware is smaller in file size than the DR firmware. Hey! Aren't the firmware files compressed? Nope. They are encrypted.

Surely there has been considerable feedback from people reading these forums to show them there is a demand. If not, the only way is to start bringing it to their attention en mass.

Lets say we petition to have the feature added to the camera. Thus we create a demand. We are still customers. Right? Canon then responds in one of two ways: they add FEC or they don't. In the former case, we are happy campers and feel the love. In the latter case, the only determination we can make is that Canon don't see us as customers anymore. Surely they weren't lying in that email. Great CRM Canon.

Hold on a second! Could we have forgotten the part about "engineers and product designers" being the decision makers? Of course! It was the "engineers and product designers" that worked out the simple business plans involved.

Engineer 1: We really aren't making enough money from the digital rebel. We are giving the customers a 6.3MP CMOS sensor with full 10D hardware minus a bit of RAM. Because RAM is really cheap now the margin on this product is not enough to pay our handsome salary and give us the holidays we deserve. Many other Japanese engineers get this luxury.

Designer 1: By Jove you are right! How can we make more money out of this camera?

Engineer 1: Let me see now. (pauses to contemplate) We can remove the FEC feature from this camera.
Designer 1: Oh? How will that help?

Engineer 1: Well, it's simple. Customer buys DR and realises that FEC is a handy feature for low-end SLR users learning the ropes.
Designer 1: Right. Then what?

Engineer 1: They then need to go out and get hold of something that allows them to use FEC.
Designer 1: What would that be?

Engineer 1: Our flagship flash unit. The Speedlite 550EX. It's a professional flash and the most expensive. We aren't selling enough to the amateur market either. We kill two birds with one stone.
Designer 1: Wow! You really are a useful engineer.

What is wrong with this picture? Could it be that Canon have wiped their butt on that email before sending it?

Apologies for the tangent (hope you enjoyed it) :) Getting back to it.

There really is only one way to combat Canon's ignorance. We need to work out the firmware and make it happen ourselves. The person(s) doing it needs a camera to pull apart. Is anyone willing to provide it? Does everyone want to donate a few dollars to the R&D fund for non-profit research? On completion, we'll then have full control of the firmware and we'll be able make our own decisions.

With all due respect Canon, you suck. You suck for trying to make us believe it's not possible. You suck for crippling the camera in a way that forces people to buy the most expensive flash in your line. What is worse than an angry Canon customer? Canon customers that have the freedom to do as they please. Customers that can have the features they want in their Digital Rebel.

Let the war on error begin.

-- sammys
 
Some cheese with that whine?

Lisa
Hi to 300D forum readers. This is my first post. Read it. Don't
read it. Up to you. :)

My post refers to the mail from Canon received by jorgexka.
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1031&message=6651184

The mail contains a paragraph:

"Decisions to include or exclude a particular camera feature are
made by our engineers and product designers in Japan, based on a
number of factors. Consumer demand, technological limitations, and
customer feedback are all taken in to consideration."

We'll begin this analysis with a look at the technological
limitations in the DR preventing FEC from being added. There are
none. The camera is well equipped to deal with this feature. Saying
the ROM the firmware is loaded on to doesn't have enough room isn't
really a legitimate argument considering the 10D firmware is
smaller in file size than the DR firmware. Hey! Aren't the firmware
files compressed? Nope. They are encrypted.

Surely there has been considerable feedback from people reading
these forums to show them there is a demand. If not, the only way
is to start bringing it to their attention en mass.

Lets say we petition to have the feature added to the camera. Thus
we create a demand. We are still customers. Right? Canon then
responds in one of two ways: they add FEC or they don't. In the
former case, we are happy campers and feel the love. In the latter
case, the only determination we can make is that Canon don't see us
as customers anymore. Surely they weren't lying in that email.
Great CRM Canon.

Hold on a second! Could we have forgotten the part about "engineers
and product designers" being the decision makers? Of course! It was
the "engineers and product designers" that worked out the simple
business plans involved.

Engineer 1: We really aren't making enough money from the digital
rebel. We are giving the customers a 6.3MP CMOS sensor with full
10D hardware minus a bit of RAM. Because RAM is really cheap now
the margin on this product is not enough to pay our handsome salary
and give us the holidays we deserve. Many other Japanese engineers
get this luxury.
Designer 1: By Jove you are right! How can we make more money out
of this camera?
Engineer 1: Let me see now. (pauses to contemplate) We can remove
the FEC feature from this camera.
Designer 1: Oh? How will that help?
Engineer 1: Well, it's simple. Customer buys DR and realises that
FEC is a handy feature for low-end SLR users learning the ropes.
Designer 1: Right. Then what?
Engineer 1: They then need to go out and get hold of something that
allows them to use FEC.
Designer 1: What would that be?
Engineer 1: Our flagship flash unit. The Speedlite 550EX. It's a
professional flash and the most expensive. We aren't selling enough
to the amateur market either. We kill two birds with one stone.
Designer 1: Wow! You really are a useful engineer.

What is wrong with this picture? Could it be that Canon have wiped
their butt on that email before sending it?

Apologies for the tangent (hope you enjoyed it) :) Getting back to it.

There really is only one way to combat Canon's ignorance. We need
to work out the firmware and make it happen ourselves. The
person(s) doing it needs a camera to pull apart. Is anyone willing
to provide it? Does everyone want to donate a few dollars to the
R&D fund for non-profit research? On completion, we'll then have
full control of the firmware and we'll be able make our own
decisions.

With all due respect Canon, you suck. You suck for trying to make
us believe it's not possible. You suck for crippling the camera in
a way that forces people to buy the most expensive flash in your
line. What is worse than an angry Canon customer? Canon customers
that have the freedom to do as they please. Customers that can have
the features they want in their Digital Rebel.

Let the war on error begin.

-- sammys
 
Hi to 300D forum readers. This is my first post. Read it. Don't
read it. Up to you. :)

My post refers to the mail from Canon received by jorgexka.
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1031&message=6651184

The mail contains a paragraph:

"Decisions to include or exclude a particular camera feature are
made by our engineers and product designers in Japan, based on a
number of factors. Consumer demand, technological limitations, and
customer feedback are all taken in to consideration."
Obviously none of this was taken into consideration..it was a plain marketing decision. Since it is possible to do it even with a remote software and SURELY...the customer feedback would not suggest to remove any feature. As for customer demand....that's an easy one to guess.
We'll begin this analysis with a look at the technological
limitations in the DR preventing FEC from being added. There are
none. The camera is well equipped to deal with this feature. Saying
the ROM the firmware is loaded on to doesn't have enough room isn't
really a legitimate argument considering the 10D firmware is
smaller in file size than the DR firmware. Hey! Aren't the firmware
files compressed? Nope. They are encrypted.

Surely there has been considerable feedback from people reading
these forums to show them there is a demand. If not, the only way
is to start bringing it to their attention en mass.

Lets say we petition to have the feature added to the camera. Thus
we create a demand. We are still customers. Right? Canon then
responds in one of two ways: they add FEC or they don't. In the
former case, we are happy campers and feel the love. In the latter
case, the only determination we can make is that Canon don't see us
as customers anymore. Surely they weren't lying in that email.
Great CRM Canon.

Hold on a second! Could we have forgotten the part about "engineers
and product designers" being the decision makers? Of course! It was
the "engineers and product designers" that worked out the simple
business plans involved.
yes that was obviously a very big lie.
Engineer 1: We really aren't making enough money from the digital
rebel. We are giving the customers a 6.3MP CMOS sensor with full
10D hardware minus a bit of RAM. Because RAM is really cheap now
the margin on this product is not enough to pay our handsome salary
and give us the holidays we deserve. Many other Japanese engineers
get this luxury.
Designer 1: By Jove you are right! How can we make more money out
of this camera?
Engineer 1: Let me see now. (pauses to contemplate) We can remove
the FEC feature from this camera.
Designer 1: Oh? How will that help?
Engineer 1: Well, it's simple. Customer buys DR and realises that
FEC is a handy feature for low-end SLR users learning the ropes.
Designer 1: Right. Then what?
Engineer 1: They then need to go out and get hold of something that
allows them to use FEC.
Designer 1: What would that be?
Engineer 1: Our flagship flash unit. The Speedlite 550EX. It's a
professional flash and the most expensive. We aren't selling enough
to the amateur market either. We kill two birds with one stone.
Designer 1: Wow! You really are a useful engineer.

What is wrong with this picture? Could it be that Canon have wiped
their butt on that email before sending it?

Apologies for the tangent (hope you enjoyed it) :) Getting back to it.

There really is only one way to combat Canon's ignorance. We need
to work out the firmware and make it happen ourselves. The
person(s) doing it needs a camera to pull apart. Is anyone willing
to provide it? Does everyone want to donate a few dollars to the
R&D fund for non-profit research? On completion, we'll then have
full control of the firmware and we'll be able make our own
decisions.
it's the software that must be taken apart...not the hardware :)
With all due respect Canon, you suck. You suck for trying to make
us believe it's not possible. You suck for crippling the camera in
a way that forces people to buy the most expensive flash in your
line. What is worse than an angry Canon customer? Canon customers
that have the freedom to do as they please. Customers that can have
the features they want in their Digital Rebel.
I know it's not related to the FEC, but if they are forcing somethign on a product, they better make sure it works. The FEC is obviously a feature that would fix the problem with the underexposed flash photos...but then there is still an option to buy the expensive flash and be done with it.

Now with the AI focus...we have simply no option to be stuck with a system that is forced on us and is very temperamental. I would be interested to read your "engineer / designer" discussion on that issue...how do you think they came out with the purpose of making the focusing mode not selectable???
Let the war on error begin.

-- sammys
--
Daniella
main gallery: http://www.infrareddream.com
http://www.photosig.com/go/users/userphotos?id=26918
http://www.pbase.com/zylen
C7OO FORUM: http://www.c700uz.com

c7OOuz, Dimage-7, Tcon14tele, C210tele, Cokin-173, Grad-ND, Hoya-red-Intensifier, Hoya_R_72.
 
I always thought it was to get "serious" people to buy the 10D. But buying a $$$ flash is a great idea too.

Of course, so far Sigma has been the benefactor of my accesorizing :)
 
Would you like some cheese with that whine?
LOL

Another idea :

He could find a publisher for his "works" and the book

"The secret discussions behind Canon´s doors"

will make him a wealthy man - so he could easily afford a 10D - or even a 1DS ;-)

--
Kalaus
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Make it idiot proof - and somebody will make a better idiot :-)
 
Funny, my wife's Rebel S camera of a 1989 vintage doesn't have FEC, either. Gee...neither does the EOS 300, the closest film Rebel (although it doesn't SAY Rebel since it is a non-USA model) in design to the Digital Rebel. Hmm, the Rebel Ti doesn't have it either, that's the closest film camera in function to the DR.

Wow! It's a 15+ year conspiracy just to get all the people who might someday convince their pocketbook they can afford a $900 DSLR to buy a flash!! Get out the lawyers, there's gonna be hell tonight!! They shouldn't have to learn how to use the camera, hell, why should they even be in the same room? They oughta be able to set it down, glance at the LCD and THINK the perfect picture. Then the camera should just read their brainwaves and jump in the air, compose/focus/snap/process/print/sell. Whammo! Pro pics without being a pro.

Does it have a cupholder? It ought to!!
With all due respect Canon, you suck. You suck for trying to make
us believe it's not possible. You suck for crippling the camera in
a way that forces people to buy the most expensive flash in your
line. What is worse than an angry Canon customer? Canon customers
that have the freedom to do as they please. Customers that can have
the features they want in their Digital Rebel.

Let the war on error begin.

-- sammys
 
be carefull .... you're not welcome to express critical thoughts about canon's consumer policy here .. you only get approval if you have found a way to hack the camera instead of expecting it to work. If you're a non believer you'll get crucified.. or burned on a stake ..
Hi to 300D forum readers. This is my first post. Read it. Don't
read it. Up to you. :)

My post refers to the mail from Canon received by jorgexka.
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1031&message=6651184

The mail contains a paragraph:

"Decisions to include or exclude a particular camera feature are
made by our engineers and product designers in Japan, based on a
number of factors. Consumer demand, technological limitations, and
customer feedback are all taken in to consideration."

We'll begin this analysis with a look at the technological
limitations in the DR preventing FEC from being added. There are
none. The camera is well equipped to deal with this feature. Saying
the ROM the firmware is loaded on to doesn't have enough room isn't
really a legitimate argument considering the 10D firmware is
smaller in file size than the DR firmware. Hey! Aren't the firmware
files compressed? Nope. They are encrypted.

Surely there has been considerable feedback from people reading
these forums to show them there is a demand. If not, the only way
is to start bringing it to their attention en mass.

Lets say we petition to have the feature added to the camera. Thus
we create a demand. We are still customers. Right? Canon then
responds in one of two ways: they add FEC or they don't. In the
former case, we are happy campers and feel the love. In the latter
case, the only determination we can make is that Canon don't see us
as customers anymore. Surely they weren't lying in that email.
Great CRM Canon.

Hold on a second! Could we have forgotten the part about "engineers
and product designers" being the decision makers? Of course! It was
the "engineers and product designers" that worked out the simple
business plans involved.

Engineer 1: We really aren't making enough money from the digital
rebel. We are giving the customers a 6.3MP CMOS sensor with full
10D hardware minus a bit of RAM. Because RAM is really cheap now
the margin on this product is not enough to pay our handsome salary
and give us the holidays we deserve. Many other Japanese engineers
get this luxury.
Designer 1: By Jove you are right! How can we make more money out
of this camera?
Engineer 1: Let me see now. (pauses to contemplate) We can remove
the FEC feature from this camera.
Designer 1: Oh? How will that help?
Engineer 1: Well, it's simple. Customer buys DR and realises that
FEC is a handy feature for low-end SLR users learning the ropes.
Designer 1: Right. Then what?
Engineer 1: They then need to go out and get hold of something that
allows them to use FEC.
Designer 1: What would that be?
Engineer 1: Our flagship flash unit. The Speedlite 550EX. It's a
professional flash and the most expensive. We aren't selling enough
to the amateur market either. We kill two birds with one stone.
Designer 1: Wow! You really are a useful engineer.

What is wrong with this picture? Could it be that Canon have wiped
their butt on that email before sending it?

Apologies for the tangent (hope you enjoyed it) :) Getting back to it.

There really is only one way to combat Canon's ignorance. We need
to work out the firmware and make it happen ourselves. The
person(s) doing it needs a camera to pull apart. Is anyone willing
to provide it? Does everyone want to donate a few dollars to the
R&D fund for non-profit research? On completion, we'll then have
full control of the firmware and we'll be able make our own
decisions.

With all due respect Canon, you suck. You suck for trying to make
us believe it's not possible. You suck for crippling the camera in
a way that forces people to buy the most expensive flash in your
line. What is worse than an angry Canon customer? Canon customers
that have the freedom to do as they please. Customers that can have
the features they want in their Digital Rebel.

Let the war on error begin.

-- sammys
--
nice cam .. but what's that stupid colour doing there?
 
Well - it sounds like a good idea - but...

I work for a technology company and I am often asked by both Product Marketing and Engineering what functionality various products should contain.

Two things are true: Engineers and designers never have the discussion below. Marketing doesn't either. (Believe it or not)

Second - engineers are interested in "cool things", while marketing is interested in what sells to whom and how.

The real issue is market segmentation and product differentiation and how each product category (in this case the 10D and the 300D) will sell in each segment with the given set of features/functions.

Here comes the tricky part: What features and functions need to be addressed. Did Canon make a mistake? Some here think so. Some not.

Will Canon bow to demand? Of course, if the demand is really there. But realistically, as a newbie, I found underexposure to be an issue. I fixed it with a good flash (550EX) and a solid understanding of the camera itself. The onboard flash is lame - aren't they always on a SLR?

If you want an onboard flash, and a camera without a curve - get a real point and shoot. That is the market segment you are in.

Just my 2 cents. Reality bites!

--

'Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.'
  • Albert Einstein
 
Lisa
Hi to 300D forum readers. This is my first post. Read it. Don't
read it. Up to you. :)

My post refers to the mail from Canon received by jorgexka.
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1031&message=6651184

The mail contains a paragraph:

"Decisions to include or exclude a particular camera feature are
made by our engineers and product designers in Japan, based on a
number of factors. Consumer demand, technological limitations, and
customer feedback are all taken in to consideration."

We'll begin this analysis with a look at the technological
limitations in the DR preventing FEC from being added. There are
none. The camera is well equipped to deal with this feature. Saying
the ROM the firmware is loaded on to doesn't have enough room isn't
really a legitimate argument considering the 10D firmware is
smaller in file size than the DR firmware. Hey! Aren't the firmware
files compressed? Nope. They are encrypted.

Surely there has been considerable feedback from people reading
these forums to show them there is a demand. If not, the only way
is to start bringing it to their attention en mass.

Lets say we petition to have the feature added to the camera. Thus
we create a demand. We are still customers. Right? Canon then
responds in one of two ways: they add FEC or they don't. In the
former case, we are happy campers and feel the love. In the latter
case, the only determination we can make is that Canon don't see us
as customers anymore. Surely they weren't lying in that email.
Great CRM Canon.

Hold on a second! Could we have forgotten the part about "engineers
and product designers" being the decision makers? Of course! It was
the "engineers and product designers" that worked out the simple
business plans involved.

Engineer 1: We really aren't making enough money from the digital
rebel. We are giving the customers a 6.3MP CMOS sensor with full
10D hardware minus a bit of RAM. Because RAM is really cheap now
the margin on this product is not enough to pay our handsome salary
and give us the holidays we deserve. Many other Japanese engineers
get this luxury.
Designer 1: By Jove you are right! How can we make more money out
of this camera?
Engineer 1: Let me see now. (pauses to contemplate) We can remove
the FEC feature from this camera.
Designer 1: Oh? How will that help?
Engineer 1: Well, it's simple. Customer buys DR and realises that
FEC is a handy feature for low-end SLR users learning the ropes.
Designer 1: Right. Then what?
Engineer 1: They then need to go out and get hold of something that
allows them to use FEC.
Designer 1: What would that be?
Engineer 1: Our flagship flash unit. The Speedlite 550EX. It's a
professional flash and the most expensive. We aren't selling enough
to the amateur market either. We kill two birds with one stone.
Designer 1: Wow! You really are a useful engineer.

What is wrong with this picture? Could it be that Canon have wiped
their butt on that email before sending it?

Apologies for the tangent (hope you enjoyed it) :) Getting back to it.

There really is only one way to combat Canon's ignorance. We need
to work out the firmware and make it happen ourselves. The
person(s) doing it needs a camera to pull apart. Is anyone willing
to provide it? Does everyone want to donate a few dollars to the
R&D fund for non-profit research? On completion, we'll then have
full control of the firmware and we'll be able make our own
decisions.

With all due respect Canon, you suck. You suck for trying to make
us believe it's not possible. You suck for crippling the camera in
a way that forces people to buy the most expensive flash in your
line. What is worse than an angry Canon customer? Canon customers
that have the freedom to do as they please. Customers that can have
the features they want in their Digital Rebel.

Let the war on error begin.

-- sammys
--
Don Jagoe
 
I think the Super 500 does - not sure. I 've mostly been accessorizing lenses. Check the forums - I'm sure it's come up.
 
Hi to 300D forum readers. This is my first post. Read it. Don't
read it. Up to you. :)

My post refers to the mail from Canon received by jorgexka.
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1031&message=6651184

The mail contains a paragraph:

"Decisions to include or exclude a particular camera feature are
made by our engineers and product designers in Japan, based on a
number of factors. Consumer demand, technological limitations, and
customer feedback are all taken in to consideration."

We'll begin this analysis with a look at the technological
limitations in the DR preventing FEC from being added. There are
none. The camera is well equipped to deal with this feature. Saying
the ROM the firmware is loaded on to doesn't have enough room isn't
really a legitimate argument considering the 10D firmware is
smaller in file size than the DR firmware. Hey! Aren't the firmware
files compressed? Nope. They are encrypted.

Surely there has been considerable feedback from people reading
these forums to show them there is a demand. If not, the only way
is to start bringing it to their attention en mass.

Lets say we petition to have the feature added to the camera. Thus
we create a demand. We are still customers. Right? Canon then
responds in one of two ways: they add FEC or they don't. In the
former case, we are happy campers and feel the love. In the latter
case, the only determination we can make is that Canon don't see us
as customers anymore. Surely they weren't lying in that email.
Great CRM Canon.

Hold on a second! Could we have forgotten the part about "engineers
and product designers" being the decision makers? Of course! It was
the "engineers and product designers" that worked out the simple
business plans involved.

Engineer 1: We really aren't making enough money from the digital
rebel. We are giving the customers a 6.3MP CMOS sensor with full
10D hardware minus a bit of RAM. Because RAM is really cheap now
the margin on this product is not enough to pay our handsome salary
and give us the holidays we deserve. Many other Japanese engineers
get this luxury.
Designer 1: By Jove you are right! How can we make more money out
of this camera?
Engineer 1: Let me see now. (pauses to contemplate) We can remove
the FEC feature from this camera.
Designer 1: Oh? How will that help?
Engineer 1: Well, it's simple. Customer buys DR and realises that
FEC is a handy feature for low-end SLR users learning the ropes.
Designer 1: Right. Then what?
Engineer 1: They then need to go out and get hold of something that
allows them to use FEC.
Designer 1: What would that be?
Engineer 1: Our flagship flash unit. The Speedlite 550EX. It's a
professional flash and the most expensive. We aren't selling enough
to the amateur market either. We kill two birds with one stone.
Designer 1: Wow! You really are a useful engineer.

What is wrong with this picture? Could it be that Canon have wiped
their butt on that email before sending it?

Apologies for the tangent (hope you enjoyed it) :) Getting back to it.

There really is only one way to combat Canon's ignorance. We need
to work out the firmware and make it happen ourselves. The
person(s) doing it needs a camera to pull apart. Is anyone willing
to provide it? Does everyone want to donate a few dollars to the
R&D fund for non-profit research? On completion, we'll then have
full control of the firmware and we'll be able make our own
decisions.

With all due respect Canon, you suck. You suck for trying to make
us believe it's not possible. You suck for crippling the camera in
a way that forces people to buy the most expensive flash in your
line. What is worse than an angry Canon customer? Canon customers
that have the freedom to do as they please. Customers that can have
the features they want in their Digital Rebel.

Let the war on error begin.

-- sammys
--
nice cam .. but what's that stupid colour doing there?
--
Daniella
main gallery: http://www.infrareddream.com
http://www.photosig.com/go/users/userphotos?id=26918
http://www.pbase.com/zylen
C7OO FORUM: http://www.c700uz.com

c7OOuz, Dimage-7, Tcon14tele, C210tele, Cokin-173, Grad-ND, Hoya-red-Intensifier, Hoya_R_72.
 
MGShea,,

How it is that those "dumb point" and shoot people are able to take better flash picture than us "educated" dslr users?

Perhaps you're implying that $1,000 camera is technically incapable of having a good flash system and we'll have to buy an inexpensive camera to properly use an on-board flash?
If you want an onboard flash, and a camera without a curve - get a
real point and shoot. That is the market segment you are in.
--
John from Southern California
http://www.pbase.com/johnrweb/disneyconcerthall
http://www.pbase.com/domdom
F707 and 300D
 
Two things are true: Engineers and designers never have the
discussion below. Marketing doesn't either. (Believe it or not)
I don't know what companies you know of but I wouldn't agree on that. Sure these are important issues that' are discussed, at least if the company has two or more similar products.
 
Hi Daniella,

Thanks for the response.
it's the software that must be taken apart...not the hardware :)
Actually, the firmware is encrypted and taking apart the camera and analysing the communication going on in the system will allow us to extract the key used to decrypt the firmware. There are other ways to get the key, but this is a quick way.

Pulling apart a camera will also enable us to get valuable information about the system and make it faster for the researcher to modify the firmware.
I know it's not related to the FEC, but if they are forcing
somethign on a product, they better make sure it works. The FEC is
obviously a feature that would fix the problem with the
underexposed flash photos...but then there is still an option to
buy the expensive flash and be done with it.
Yes you are right. One can buy the flash and have FEC. Though FEC won't fix the problem with underexposed photos. As others have mentioned, the underexposure is the result of metering on the wrong thing and/or recomposing the shot. FEC really just gives you slightly more creative control.

The camera already has FEC built into it. This is shown by the fact you can adjust FEC using some software. Adding FEC control to the menu and to the + - button on the back of the camera will be trivial.
Now with the AI focus...we have simply no option to be stuck with a
system that is forced on us and is very temperamental. I would be
interested to read your "engineer / designer" discussion on that
issue...how do you think they came out with the purpose of making
the focusing mode not selectable???
That's a good question. There probably isn't any real monetary value involved. They have eliminated customizations like the focus mode selection from the DR to differentiate it from the 10D.

-- sammys
 
My thoughts are as follows:

I always wanted a dSLR...

I could never afford one...

Canon produced an affordable one...

Nobody else has...

So where's the problem...?

How can we complain that the 300D lacks a feature, when every other manufacturer lacks the camera?
Hi to 300D forum readers. This is my first post. Read it. Don't
read it. Up to you. :)

My post refers to the mail from Canon received by jorgexka.
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1031&message=6651184

The mail contains a paragraph:

"Decisions to include or exclude a particular camera feature are
made by our engineers and product designers in Japan, based on a
number of factors. Consumer demand, technological limitations, and
customer feedback are all taken in to consideration."

We'll begin this analysis with a look at the technological
limitations in the DR preventing FEC from being added. There are
none. The camera is well equipped to deal with this feature. Saying
the ROM the firmware is loaded on to doesn't have enough room isn't
really a legitimate argument considering the 10D firmware is
smaller in file size than the DR firmware. Hey! Aren't the firmware
files compressed? Nope. They are encrypted.

Surely there has been considerable feedback from people reading
these forums to show them there is a demand. If not, the only way
is to start bringing it to their attention en mass.

Lets say we petition to have the feature added to the camera. Thus
we create a demand. We are still customers. Right? Canon then
responds in one of two ways: they add FEC or they don't. In the
former case, we are happy campers and feel the love. In the latter
case, the only determination we can make is that Canon don't see us
as customers anymore. Surely they weren't lying in that email.
Great CRM Canon.

Hold on a second! Could we have forgotten the part about "engineers
and product designers" being the decision makers? Of course! It was
the "engineers and product designers" that worked out the simple
business plans involved.

Engineer 1: We really aren't making enough money from the digital
rebel. We are giving the customers a 6.3MP CMOS sensor with full
10D hardware minus a bit of RAM. Because RAM is really cheap now
the margin on this product is not enough to pay our handsome salary
and give us the holidays we deserve. Many other Japanese engineers
get this luxury.
Designer 1: By Jove you are right! How can we make more money out
of this camera?
Engineer 1: Let me see now. (pauses to contemplate) We can remove
the FEC feature from this camera.
Designer 1: Oh? How will that help?
Engineer 1: Well, it's simple. Customer buys DR and realises that
FEC is a handy feature for low-end SLR users learning the ropes.
Designer 1: Right. Then what?
Engineer 1: They then need to go out and get hold of something that
allows them to use FEC.
Designer 1: What would that be?
Engineer 1: Our flagship flash unit. The Speedlite 550EX. It's a
professional flash and the most expensive. We aren't selling enough
to the amateur market either. We kill two birds with one stone.
Designer 1: Wow! You really are a useful engineer.

What is wrong with this picture? Could it be that Canon have wiped
their butt on that email before sending it?

Apologies for the tangent (hope you enjoyed it) :) Getting back to it.

There really is only one way to combat Canon's ignorance. We need
to work out the firmware and make it happen ourselves. The
person(s) doing it needs a camera to pull apart. Is anyone willing
to provide it? Does everyone want to donate a few dollars to the
R&D fund for non-profit research? On completion, we'll then have
full control of the firmware and we'll be able make our own
decisions.

With all due respect Canon, you suck. You suck for trying to make
us believe it's not possible. You suck for crippling the camera in
a way that forces people to buy the most expensive flash in your
line. What is worse than an angry Canon customer? Canon customers
that have the freedom to do as they please. Customers that can have
the features they want in their Digital Rebel.

Let the war on error begin.

-- sammys
 
How can we complain that the 300D lacks a feature, when every other
manufacturer lacks the camera?
Good point. As long as it's not bugs they ignore to fix or features they have promised I think they have to do differentiate it from the 10D. Why would anyone pay $500 more for the 10D otherwise.

Of course we can always set pressure on Canon and require more features from them. Hopefully they will also replace the 10D in (beginning) of next year with a 10+ MP camera. At that moment they could also be more generous with features in 300D since there is a better camera for those who can afford it. I'm not sure thay will do that but we can always hope and require it.
 
First, there's no reason for respondents to get vitriolic; this should be a civil discussion; those who are agitating for Canon to add FEC are not unpatriotic, they're probably good photographers, and they probably understand their cameras.

Second, Canon is not an evil empire. They made a reasonable choice in deleting FEC. However, if the choice turns out to be a bad one from the consumer's view, it is a service to Canon to let them know, in no uncertain terms, that this feature would improve the camera. I understand the whole 10D issue, but I'm guessing that Canon could and will sell 10 Drebels for every 10D, and if they never sell another 10D the Drebel will still enhance their reputation, their market position, and their bottom line.

So, instead of harping at each other about whether some of us are dolts because we can't use the workarounds, and instead of complaining about no FEC on this forum, contact Canon (through tech support and via tools like PlanetFeedback) and tell them what you think. I did, and I got a quick phone call saying the usual line about the impossibility of adding the feature. But I'll bet they're hearing the message, and we'll see FEC, if not in a firmware release, at least in the next generation of the camera.
 
First, there's no reason for respondents to get vitriolic; this
should be a civil discussion; those who are agitating for Canon to
add FEC are not unpatriotic, they're probably good photographers,
and they probably understand their cameras.

Second, Canon is not an evil empire. They made a reasonable choice
in deleting FEC. However, if the choice turns out to be a bad one
from the consumer's view, it is a service to Canon to let them
know, in no uncertain terms, that this feature would improve the
camera. I understand the whole 10D issue, but I'm guessing that
Canon could and will sell 10 Drebels for every 10D, and if they
never sell another 10D the Drebel will still enhance their
reputation, their market position, and their bottom line.

So, instead of harping at each other about whether some of us are
dolts because we can't use the workarounds, and instead of
complaining about no FEC on this forum, contact Canon (through tech
support and via tools like PlanetFeedback) and tell them what you
think. I did, and I got a quick phone call saying the usual line
about the impossibility of adding the feature. But I'll bet they're
hearing the message, and we'll see FEC, if not in a firmware
release, at least in the next generation of the camera.
 

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