Testing the E10 - a favor, please.

[Ed Oliver]

If you have the E10 or E20 I would appreciate if you could do the following test and email me the results at .

Reason for the test - ongoing discussion with Olympus about manual focus.

Test:

1. Set up test chart (piece of 8.5x11 paper with one horizontal black line and three vertical black lines which can be marker pen) about 24" from camera that is mounted on tripod and illuminated with any light that is bright enough to focus the chart. You do not need to take any pictures.

2. Make sure your eye piece is set for the sharpest image with your eyes. This is done by pointing the camera at a white piece of paper and turning the diopter adjustment until the black rectangle and circle are as sharp as possible.

3. Set focal length to 36mm and lens opening to f2.4 (shutter speed not material) and no filters.
4. Turn on camera and LCD and get distance scale.

5. Set focus to manual and adjust focus until you have the best possible image in the viewfinder. Note distance on LCD scale.

6. Close the viewfinder blind, switch to auto focus, 1/2 press shutter while watching the LCD distance scale.

Please report if ANY (little or lot) or NO movement of this scale. Repeat several times and see if same thing happens and is consistent

Serial number and firmware number would be appreciated but not neccessary.

Thanks for your help and I will report the results and reason if enough data comes in.

Ed Oliver

 

[bartP]

firmware 1.30 serialnumber 11036xx

If I do your test, the AF will focus on about 10cm farther than manual focus point ((100cm becomes about 110cm)). I've found this out also shooting portraits, that the AF will focus farther than the targeted manual focuspoint, so the face won't be sharp unless I close the aperture to 5.6.

Bart

If you have the E10 or E20 I would appreciate if you could do the
following test and email me the results at .

Reason for the test - ongoing discussion with Olympus about manual
focus.

Test:
1. Set up test chart (piece of 8.5x11 paper with one horizontal
black line and three vertical black lines which can be marker pen)
about 24" from camera that is mounted on tripod and illuminated
with any light that is bright enough to focus the chart. You do not
need to take any pictures.
2. Make sure your eye piece is set for the sharpest image with
your eyes. This is done by pointing the camera at a white piece of
paper and turning the diopter adjustment until the black rectangle
and circle are as sharp as possible.
3. Set focal length to 36mm and lens opening to f2.4 (shutter
speed not material) and no filters.
4. Turn on camera and LCD and get distance scale.
5. Set focus to manual and adjust focus until you have the best
possible image in the viewfinder. Note distance on LCD scale.
6. Close the viewfinder blind, switch to auto focus, 1/2 press
shutter while watching the LCD distance scale.

Please report if ANY (little or lot) or NO movement of this scale.
Repeat several times and see if same thing happens and is consistent

Serial number and firmware number would be appreciated but not
neccessary.

Thanks for your help and I will report the results and reason if
enough data comes in.

Ed Oliver

 

[Clarence Upchurch]

Go to tokenasians.com and read carefully. The direction the focus ring is turned will focus closer of further from the object.

The difficulty is depth of field as much as it is correct focus

I use f 4.0 and pay close attention to the focus ring and image and now have almost no oof.
--Coup

 

[Ferenc]

Ed:

Perform the test, with my Laptop screen as being the focus target (I emulated the three vertical and the horizontal bar with three white background Photoshop pictures, being the windows' frames the reference lines. I turned-on the "size" scale, so I could lock-in its numbers, crisp and clear, as my focus reference.

Everything else performed exactly as you pointed out, including distance and position.

NO movement, whatsoever, of the distance metering bar, from MF to AF. Repeated and consistently provided the same results.

Firmware 42.0120, firmware Serial 1078208.

Kind regards,

Ferenc

If you have the E10 or E20 I would appreciate if you could do the
following test and email me the results at .

Reason for the test - ongoing discussion with Olympus about manual
focus.

Test:
1. Set up test chart (piece of 8.5x11 paper with one horizontal
black line and three vertical black lines which can be marker pen)
about 24" from camera that is mounted on tripod and illuminated
with any light that is bright enough to focus the chart. You do not
need to take any pictures.
2. Make sure your eye piece is set for the sharpest image with
your eyes. This is done by pointing the camera at a white piece of
paper and turning the diopter adjustment until the black rectangle
and circle are as sharp as possible.
3. Set focal length to 36mm and lens opening to f2.4 (shutter
speed not material) and no filters.
4. Turn on camera and LCD and get distance scale.
5. Set focus to manual and adjust focus until you have the best
possible image in the viewfinder. Note distance on LCD scale.
6. Close the viewfinder blind, switch to auto focus, 1/2 press
shutter while watching the LCD distance scale.

Please report if ANY (little or lot) or NO movement of this scale.
Repeat several times and see if same thing happens and is consistent

Serial number and firmware number would be appreciated but not
neccessary.

Thanks for your help and I will report the results and reason if
enough data comes in.

Ed Oliver

 

[Ed Oliver]

Go to tokenasians.com and read carefully.

The information concerning focus is not correct - the point of focus in the optical path is the same as the screen that the circle and rectangle are etched on (that is why you adjust the diopter correction to focus your eyes at this point).

The difficulty is depth of field as much as it is correct focus

The difficulty is that too many are using depth of field as a crutch for a camera that won't focus properly in manual mode.

If the distance scale moves at all (doing the test) it means that one or the other means of focus is incorrect and since almost everyone has good results with auto focus then it is the manual that is in error.

I have done considerable testing (three different cameras) and they indicate that the camera is not only not focusing correctly in manual but in auto as well. Set up a test that has objects both farther and closer than the focus point and (use 36mm and f2.4 as you are trying to check focus not depth of field) you will find that the camera is off in auto focus also - however this error seems to be small enough that acceptable results are obtained.

My point is that the camera should focus easily and accurately in both AF and MF and one should not have to reply on depth of field or fudging the distance to accomplish this.

Ed Oliver

 

[Moon]

Ed,

I conducted your test 3 times with exactly the same result. It seems that my MF focuses slightly in front of where my AF wants to focus. I have NEVER been able to use MF as there are soft every single time. I have spent hours upon hours upon hours trying to figure out what I could be doing wrong. I've methodically tested every single diopeter position, different lighting, distances, tripod, handheld, etc, etc. My MF just does not work. Your test proves this as well.

When I focus manually on the paper, the distance scale puts me at just over the 1.3 mark on the meter. When I switch to AF the green mark jumps slightly to the right when I 1/2 press. Then it stays locked there through 10 AFs (I did this 3 times, so 30 AFs all together). The results were EXACTLY consistant on all 3 tests.

My camera is an E10, version 4-130 firmware, SN - 1079596.

PLEASE keep me posted on your progress with this. My e-mail is [email protected].

Thanks,

Mike

If you have the E10 or E20 I would appreciate if you could do the
following test and email me the results at .

Reason for the test - ongoing discussion with Olympus about manual
focus.

Test:
1. Set up test chart (piece of 8.5x11 paper with one horizontal
black line and three vertical black lines which can be marker pen)
about 24" from camera that is mounted on tripod and illuminated
with any light that is bright enough to focus the chart. You do not
need to take any pictures.
2. Make sure your eye piece is set for the sharpest image with
your eyes. This is done by pointing the camera at a white piece of
paper and turning the diopter adjustment until the black rectangle
and circle are as sharp as possible.
3. Set focal length to 36mm and lens opening to f2.4 (shutter
speed not material) and no filters.
4. Turn on camera and LCD and get distance scale.
5. Set focus to manual and adjust focus until you have the best
possible image in the viewfinder. Note distance on LCD scale.
6. Close the viewfinder blind, switch to auto focus, 1/2 press
shutter while watching the LCD distance scale.

Please report if ANY (little or lot) or NO movement of this scale.
Repeat several times and see if same thing happens and is consistent

Serial number and firmware number would be appreciated but not
neccessary.

Thanks for your help and I will report the results and reason if
enough data comes in.

Ed Oliver

 

[Frank B]

What is Olympus saying? A lot of people have reported problems with manual focus. My camera is with Olympus now for adjustment. I did not do your exact test, but my own test indicated that auto focus and manual focu were slightly different, with auto focus appearing to be correct. I will be interested to see if they match when I get it back. Is Olympus saying that they don't have to match?

Frank B

If you have the E10 or E20 I would appreciate if you could do the
following test and email me the results at .

Reason for the test - ongoing discussion with Olympus about manual
focus.

Test:
1. Set up test chart (piece of 8.5x11 paper with one horizontal
black line and three vertical black lines which can be marker pen)
about 24" from camera that is mounted on tripod and illuminated
with any light that is bright enough to focus the chart. You do not
need to take any pictures.
2. Make sure your eye piece is set for the sharpest image with
your eyes. This is done by pointing the camera at a white piece of
paper and turning the diopter adjustment until the black rectangle
and circle are as sharp as possible.
3. Set focal length to 36mm and lens opening to f2.4 (shutter
speed not material) and no filters.
4. Turn on camera and LCD and get distance scale.
5. Set focus to manual and adjust focus until you have the best
possible image in the viewfinder. Note distance on LCD scale.
6. Close the viewfinder blind, switch to auto focus, 1/2 press
shutter while watching the LCD distance scale.

Please report if ANY (little or lot) or NO movement of this scale.
Repeat several times and see if same thing happens and is consistent

Serial number and firmware number would be appreciated but not
neccessary.

Thanks for your help and I will report the results and reason if
enough data comes in.

Ed Oliver

 

[Tommy Martin]

For the record... I tried this with my E-20 and didn't notice any movement in the scale from MF to AF. I realize this was directed at the E-10 but I thought I would give it a try as I have heard some complaints about he E-20 AF as well.

Tommy

If you have the E10 or E20 I would appreciate if you could do the
following test and email me the results at .

Reason for the test - ongoing discussion with Olympus about manual
focus.

Test:
1. Set up test chart (piece of 8.5x11 paper with one horizontal
black line and three vertical black lines which can be marker pen)
about 24" from camera that is mounted on tripod and illuminated
with any light that is bright enough to focus the chart. You do not
need to take any pictures.
2. Make sure your eye piece is set for the sharpest image with
your eyes. This is done by pointing the camera at a white piece of
paper and turning the diopter adjustment until the black rectangle
and circle are as sharp as possible.
3. Set focal length to 36mm and lens opening to f2.4 (shutter
speed not material) and no filters.
4. Turn on camera and LCD and get distance scale.
5. Set focus to manual and adjust focus until you have the best
possible image in the viewfinder. Note distance on LCD scale.
6. Close the viewfinder blind, switch to auto focus, 1/2 press
shutter while watching the LCD distance scale.

Please report if ANY (little or lot) or NO movement of this scale.
Repeat several times and see if same thing happens and is consistent

Serial number and firmware number would be appreciated but not
neccessary.

Thanks for your help and I will report the results and reason if
enough data comes in.

Ed Oliver

--Tommy

 

[Ed Oliver]

What is Olympus saying?

My original E10 was sent in Nov 2001 for this problem (with a cover letter explaining how to check by testing as iterated here and a series of photos showing the problem) and was returned with notation "adjusted focus" but the only adjustment apparent was they turned the diopeter setting to maximum negative so I couldn't see anything in the finder. This camera was returned immediately (received by them on Dec 26, 2001) with photos and again told of the test. After repeated calls (weekly) to service and letter's to the service manager (again explaining the test and results) they finally sent me a refurbished (received 2/7/02) that was worse than the original. I immediately complained and they are supposed to be shipping a NEW camera. Will see what happens, supposed to be here next couple days.

My feeling is that this is a widespread problem, hence my request for information. Maybe if enough people realize that their camera is not right they will demand a camera that is operating as it should and Olympus will correct this problem.

By the way, my camera went to the NY address but similar experience reported on West Coast.

Ed

 

[SeanU]

Ed,

No apparent problems with my e-10. Firmware:120 Serial #: 1099XXX

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

Go to tokenasians.com and read carefully.

The information concerning focus is not correct - the point of
focus in the optical path is the same as the screen that the circle
and rectangle are etched on (that is why you adjust the diopter
correction to focus your eyes at this point).

Which information are you saying is incorrect?

The difficulty is that too many are using depth of field as a
crutch for a camera that won't focus properly in manual mode.

Actually ... the thing is, few people use manual mode on the camera, period. Even if the MF works perfectly well.

If the distance scale moves at all (doing the test) it means that
one or the other means of focus is incorrect and since almost
everyone has good results with auto focus then it is the manual
that is in error.

Well let's think a little bit about exactly how the camera is arriving at its distance conclusion ... hint ... it's the same way your eye does it. Problem is, some people's eyes seem to have trouble with the type of focusing screen the E-series uses. My technique is a way to limit the variance in what the eye sees and what the CCD sees. Nothing more. If it helps you achieve a successful focus, the rest is academic. If not, then look elsewhere.

I have done considerable testing (three different cameras) and they
indicate that the camera is not only not focusing correctly in
manual but in auto as well. Set up a test that has objects both
farther and closer than the focus point and (use 36mm and f2.4 as
you are trying to check focus not depth of field) you will find
that the camera is off in auto focus also - however this error
seems to be small enough that acceptable results are obtained.

Well, there are two kinds of results, acceptable and unacceptable. If they are the former, what's the problem?

My point is that the camera should focus easily and accurately in
both AF and MF and one should not have to reply on depth of field
or fudging the distance to accomplish this.

It does, and you don't have to. Now .... do you have something constructive to share?

Ed Oliver

--- Dr. G.E-10 FAQ: http://www.tokenasians.com/articles/e10faq.html

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

No movement on scale from AF to MF.
Firmware 1.20
SN 1801xxx

Repeated test 4 times. Relies upon having enough detail in the target to really determine sharp focus in the viewfinder; I keyed in on a thin wisp from the pen mark to judge ultimate focus.--- Dr. G.E-10 FAQ: http://www.tokenasians.com/articles/e10faq.html

 

[John W.]

Hi Ed,

Repeated your test several times...no difference with my E-10 between AF and MF...but I have never had any problems since day 1 (over 12 months ago). Firmware 130 (updated from 120 last August), serial #1034*
--John W

 

[jimmy w]

i have an e-10 thats a week old that focus s wrong. and i DO MANUAL FOCUS MY CAMERA MOST OF THE TIME. i set up a ruler at a45 degree angle to the lens about 5 feet away from the camera. i focused on the 16 inch mark and the focus point 8 out of the nine times was around the 22-23 inch mark. the reason i did the test was simply i was NOT GETTING SHARP PHOTOGRAPHS. my photos from the coolpix 950 , yes , 950 run circles around this e10.

im sorry but a $1200 camera should be able to focus right on or else the manual focus feature should be left off. i m very dissapointed with my e-10 in that respect.

 

[Alashi]

Welcome to the club. My E20 is way off on manual focus. It's a shame that the major reason I bought this camera was so that I could see and focus using a real lens. Because of the price, I'm still in denial and continue to use it. The AF fails on many simple shots that my EOS3 gets perfectly every time. One thing about the E20...it confirms your out of focus state very quickly. Big blur, big beep! Green dot.

Alashi

i have an e-10 thats a week old that focus s wrong. and i DO
MANUAL FOCUS MY CAMERA MOST OF THE TIME. i set up a ruler at a45
degree angle to the lens about 5 feet away from the camera. i
focused on the 16 inch mark and the focus point 8 out of the nine
times was around the 22-23 inch mark. the reason i did the test
was simply i was NOT GETTING SHARP PHOTOGRAPHS. my photos from the
coolpix 950 , yes , 950 run circles around this e10.
im sorry but a $1200 camera should be able to focus right on or
else the manual focus feature should be left off. i m very
dissapointed with my e-10 in that respect.

 

[alan scott]

If you have the E10 or E20 I would appreciate if you could do the
following test and email me the results at .

Reason for the test - ongoing discussion with Olympus about manual
focus.

Test:
1. Set up test chart (piece of 8.5x11 paper with one horizontal
black line and three vertical black lines which can be marker pen)
about 24" from camera that is mounted on tripod and illuminated
with any light that is bright enough to focus the chart. You do not
need to take any pictures.
2. Make sure your eye piece is set for the sharpest image with
your eyes. This is done by pointing the camera at a white piece of
paper and turning the diopter adjustment until the black rectangle
and circle are as sharp as possible.
3. Set focal length to 36mm and lens opening to f2.4 (shutter
speed not material) and no filters.
4. Turn on camera and LCD and get distance scale.
5. Set focus to manual and adjust focus until you have the best
possible image in the viewfinder. Note distance on LCD scale.
6. Close the viewfinder blind, switch to auto focus, 1/2 press
shutter while watching the LCD distance scale.

Please report if ANY (little or lot) or NO movement of this scale.
Repeat several times and see if same thing happens and is consistent

Serial number and firmware number would be appreciated but not
neccessary.

Thanks for your help and I will report the results and reason if
enough data comes in.

Ed Oliver

--Alan Scott

 

[jimmy w]

If you have the E10 or E20 I would appreciate if you could do the
following test and email me the results at .

Reason for the test - ongoing discussion with Olympus about manual
focus.

Test:
1. Set up test chart (piece of 8.5x11 paper with one horizontal
black line and three vertical black lines which can be marker pen)
about 24" from camera that is mounted on tripod and illuminated
with any light that is bright enough to focus the chart. You do not
need to take any pictures.
2. Make sure your eye piece is set for the sharpest image with
your eyes. This is done by pointing the camera at a white piece of
paper and turning the diopter adjustment until the black rectangle
and circle are as sharp as possible.
3. Set focal length to 36mm and lens opening to f2.4 (shutter
speed not material) and no filters.
4. Turn on camera and LCD and get distance scale.
5. Set focus to manual and adjust focus until you have the best
possible image in the viewfinder. Note distance on LCD scale.
6. Close the viewfinder blind, switch to auto focus, 1/2 press
shutter while watching the LCD distance scale.

Please report if ANY (little or lot) or NO movement of this scale.
Repeat several times and see if same thing happens and is consistent

Serial number and firmware number would be appreciated but not
neccessary.

Thanks for your help and I will report the results and reason if
enough data comes in.

Ed Oliver

ed, i just now did your test and yes my camera distance jumped up the scale slightly when i switched to auto focus. when you see how far off the focus is on the ruler test at 45 degree it really hits home how bad a photo you are producing with this camera in manual focus mode is. i really like the camera otherwise, but the end result needed is a in focus photo with good color, not a loyality to a camera, that is important.. this camera is one week old, with 1.30 firmware.

 

[gregg69776]

I want to say that what you are seeing varies as the zoom is changed. You probably already know this, so slap me silly. There is more variation between the two means of focusing at one end of the zoom. If my camera weren't in service for this very thing, I'd test it. By the way, I made a radiaiting type focus target using Autocad. If it's any help, I'd find a way to get you the file. My guess is you don't need my stinkin' target. But it's a good one.
Gregg

If you have the E10 or E20 I would appreciate if you could do the
following test and email me the results at .

Reason for the test - ongoing discussion with Olympus about manual
focus.

Test:
1. Set up test chart (piece of 8.5x11 paper with one horizontal
black line and three vertical black lines which can be marker pen)
about 24" from camera that is mounted on tripod and illuminated
with any light that is bright enough to focus the chart. You do not
need to take any pictures.
2. Make sure your eye piece is set for the sharpest image with
your eyes. This is done by pointing the camera at a white piece of
paper and turning the diopter adjustment until the black rectangle
and circle are as sharp as possible.
3. Set focal length to 36mm and lens opening to f2.4 (shutter
speed not material) and no filters.
4. Turn on camera and LCD and get distance scale.
5. Set focus to manual and adjust focus until you have the best
possible image in the viewfinder. Note distance on LCD scale.
6. Close the viewfinder blind, switch to auto focus, 1/2 press
shutter while watching the LCD distance scale.

Please report if ANY (little or lot) or NO movement of this scale.
Repeat several times and see if same thing happens and is consistent

Serial number and firmware number would be appreciated but not
neccessary.

Thanks for your help and I will report the results and reason if
enough data comes in.

Ed Oliver

 

[Ed Oliver]

I want to say that what you are seeing varies as the zoom is changed.

That's as it should be. Shorter focal lengths make for greater depth of field however if you do the test you will find that if you focus in wide angle or telephoto there will still be a jump in the distance scale (assuming your camera is off) although the pictures may turn out OK but that is because the depth of field has covered up the focusing error.

By the way, I made a radiating type focus target using Autocad. If it's any help, I'd find a way to get you the file. My
guess is you don't need my stinkin' target. But it's a good one.

Appreciate the offer but contrast vertical lines are the best as that is the way the camera is designed to focus.

Thanks for the input.

Ed

 

[Ed Oliver]

Which information are you saying is incorrect?

All of it that attempts to get the focus by anyother method than suggested by Olympus. Get the screen sharp and then focus as sharp as you can get at this point. That is the way the camera was designed and that is the way it should work.

Actually ... the thing is, few people use manual mode on the
camera, period. Even if the MF works perfectly well.

Now that's as lame an excuse as I have heard. If it don't work , it don't work and if you bought the camera because it was a TTL that was touted as having full manual mode focusing and when part won't work then what. I personally use (or wish I could) manual mode because of the type of images I am trying to capture the auto focus won't do the job.

Well let's think a little bit about exactly how the camera is
arriving at its distance conclusion ... hint ... it's the same way
your eye does it. Problem is, some people's eyes seem to have
trouble with the type of focusing screen the E-series uses. My
technique is a way to limit the variance in what the eye sees and
what the CCD sees. Nothing more. If it helps you achieve a
successful focus, the rest is academic. If not, then look elsewhere.

See response at top of page - it works or it don't. Mickey mouse is not the answer.

Well, there are two kinds of results, acceptable and unacceptable.
If they are the former, what's the problem?

The problem is that in manual focus there is no way you can get sharp results with out using depth of field (assuming your camera is one of the many that has this problem).

My point is that the camera should focus easily and accurately in
both AF and MF and one should not have to reply on depth of field
or fudging the distance to accomplish this.

It does, and you don't have to.

My camera (and many others) does not.

Now .... do you have something constructive to share?

I am sharing it and if you read the responses you will see that I am not the only one experiencing this problem and the test verifies the ones that have the problem. If your happy making do with a work around on a $1000. plus camera be my guest. I need a camera that will perform as advertised and so far this has not been it. I like the camera and the results in AF are very good but I need a reliable manual focus and so far the cameras I have had access to don't do the job.

Ed O