Stereo microphone setup for background ambient recordings

[DNature]

I am not sure where to ask this but thought here might be a good place. I am already searched online and have not come up with a good answer yet.
I am looking for a stereo microphone setup so I can record outdoor background audio for my videos as I want to record nature videos and need a good stereo audio.

I mentioned my current setup here: https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/68243582

I currently use a Panasonic S5II to record video and do everything myself (audio and video) so the way my camera is setup is on the camera hot shoe, I mount a Rycote InVision On Camera shock mount and a Rycote HC-22 microphone with Rycote Super Softie windshield.

I also have a Sennheiser ME66/K6Pwhich I have had since about 2016 an got it for recording bird calls then last year got the Rycote HC-22 for its better sound.
While they are both very sensitive and have low self noises, they are mono shotgun mics and I would prefer stereo audio. I have also read some who have Rycotes HC shotgun mics have picked up interference with them and I don't potentially want that either.

I need a microphone setup for stereo audio recording. I'll be using my Sounddevices MixPre 3-II. I am looking for:

1. Budget: around £800 or so including windshield and mount
2. Either Stereo XY or stereo pair but must have XLR
3. I need to mount them on the camera or camera cage, so not off camera
4. Low self noise and good sensitivity to reduce noise in audio

I have looked at the Audio-Technica AT8022 and At4025 stereo microphones only record frequencies up to 15 and 17Khz but I would prefer up to 20Khz.

Also, since the camera has a fan in it which can't be turned off when recording videos, I would prefer not to potentially pick up any potential fan noise, so a very short microphone probably wouldn't be useful. I have not noticed fan noise in my audio recordings with the microphones I use currently but they are very directional and long enough to point away from the camera.
Can anyone help?

--
If find that the best way to live life, is not in the pursuit of material possessions, but its to live in the pursuit of making positive differences to both other people and to the planet as a whole and if you can get others to do similar or the same, so much the better.

 

[Off The Mark]

Just some things to think about...

1) You can use two of the same mono mics mounted in an X/Y Pattern for stereo

2) Shotgun mics (line gradient mics, mics with an interference tube), are going to reject much of the sound that the mic is not pointed at.

For that reason, a pair of mics with a cardioid (or sub cardioid) pattern would probably work best for your situation.

Mic Pickup Patterns:

https://www.audio-technica.com/en-us/support/a-brief-guide-to-microphones-whats-the-pattern

3) If you are concerned about picking up fan noise from your S5 II, then probably you will need some sort of extension shaft or something to move the mics further away from the camera body. (I believe from reading you other post, you want the mics to be on-axis to the camera lens so that people hear what they see.)

 

[Rag and Bone]

Would the Rode NT4 work for you?

 

[DNature]

Would theRode NT4 work for you?

I have had a look at that and maybe not. The self noise is just a bit higher than I want.

I know I said no very short microphones, but I had a look to see what is within my budget and I could get a matched pair of Rycote OM-08 which is omnidirectional and has a self noise of 11dbA: https://rycote.com/rycote-omnidirectional-condenser-microphone-ryc079005/

I am still not yet sure and the only sound recordings I could find taken with the OM-08 are of a guitar and of water/ocean sounds and ocean/rushing water sounds are not the most helpful in determining how good a microphone is for field recording, especially in quieter locations.

The only thing is that I don't want to pickup as much sound behind the microphone such as potentially picking up sounds from myself moving (I try to avoid making any sounds when recording audio) or potential fan noises so I am not sure if omnidirectional mics would be the best to use with a camera.
--
If find that the best way to live life, is not in the pursuit of material possessions, but its to live in the pursuit of making positive differences to both other people and to the planet as a whole and if you can get others to do similar or the same, so much the better.

 

[Off The Mark]

...I could get a matched pair of Rycote OM-08 which is omnidirectional...

...The only thing is that I don't want to pickup as much sound behind the microphone such as potentially picking up sounds from myself moving (I try to avoid making any sounds when recording audio) or potential fan noises so I am not sure if omnidirectional mics would be the best to use with a camera.

I apologize in advance if my suggestions are ill-informed, but, I think that using omnidirectional mics would be MORE likely to pick up sound from behind the camera when compared to using mics with a cardioid pattern (or a mid-side pattern).

I know with omnidirectional lav mics, they are often placed facing AWAY from the speaker's mouth (to reduce plosives and silibants, or to reduce wind noise when someone breathes heavily through there nose, and their breath would directly strike the mic capsule). Those omnidirectional lav mics still do a very good job of picking up the voice of the speaker (whose mouth would then be "behind" the mic).

 

[Rag and Bone]

I don't know where you are located, but in many places it's possible to rent mics fairly cheaply.

It might be worth it to try a few options, since, for example, a low self noise spec might not be of too much value if the off-axis rejection is so poor that you're getting too much camera noise.

Mics are notoriously difficult to choose by spec alone.

 

[bing041]

Would theRode NT4 work for you?

I have had a look at that and maybe not. The self noise is just a bit higher than I want.

I know I said no very short microphones, but I had a look to see what is within my budget and I could get a matched pair of Rycote OM-08 which is omnidirectional and has a self noise of 11dbA: https://rycote.com/rycote-omnidirectional-condenser-microphone-ryc079005/

I am still not yet sure and the only sound recordings I could find taken with the OM-08 are of a guitar and of water/ocean sounds and ocean/rushing water sounds are not the most helpful in determining how good a microphone is for field recording, especially in quieter locations.
The only thing is that I don't want to pickup as much sound behind the microphone such as potentially picking up sounds from myself moving (I try to avoid making any sounds when recording audio) or potential fan noises so I am not sure if omnidirectional mics would be the best to use with a camera.
--
If find that the best way to live life, is not in the pursuit of material possessions, but its to live in the pursuit of making positive differences to both other people and to the planet as a whole and if you can get others to do similar or the same, so much the better.

Omnidirectional mics, as you say, pick up sounds all around - including of you breathing or moving behind the camera. That would be much more noticeable than the mics' self-noise.

These particular mics seem to require xlr inputs and 48v phantom power. No way you are going to mount them on your camera or connect them to the camera's audio input, which is not xlr and does not provide phantom power unless you use an adapter. Sounds like a very cumbersome setup.

And I do not know how you protect those two mics from wind noise, which, again, is far more important than mic s/n.

 

[Off The Mark]

Would theRode NT4 work for you?

I have had a look at that and maybe not. The self noise is just a bit higher than I want.

I know I said no very short microphones, but I had a look to see what is within my budget and I could get a matched pair of Rycote OM-08 which is omnidirectional and has a self noise of 11dbA: https://rycote.com/rycote-omnidirectional-condenser-microphone-ryc079005/

I am still not yet sure and the only sound recordings I could find taken with the OM-08 are of a guitar and of water/ocean sounds and ocean/rushing water sounds are not the most helpful in determining how good a microphone is for field recording, especially in quieter locations.
The only thing is that I don't want to pickup as much sound behind the microphone such as potentially picking up sounds from myself moving (I try to avoid making any sounds when recording audio) or potential fan noises so I am not sure if omnidirectional mics would be the best to use with a camera.
--
If find that the best way to live life, is not in the pursuit of material possessions, but its to live in the pursuit of making positive differences to both other people and to the planet as a whole and if you can get others to do similar or the same, so much the better.

Omnidirectional mics, as you say, pick up sounds all around - including of you breathing or moving behind the camera. That would be much more noticeable than the mics' self-noise.

These particular mics seem to require xlr inputs and 48v phantom power. No way you are going to mount them on your camera or connect them to the camera's audio input, which is not xlr and does not provide phantom power unless you use an adapter. Sounds like a very cumbersome setup.

And I do not know how you protect those two mics from wind noise, which, again, is far more important than mic s/n.

All very good points.

 

[DNature]

...I could get a matched pair of Rycote OM-08 which is omnidirectional...

...The only thing is that I don't want to pickup as much sound behind the microphone such as potentially picking up sounds from myself moving (I try to avoid making any sounds when recording audio) or potential fan noises so I am not sure if omnidirectional mics would be the best to use with a camera.

I apologize in advance if my suggestions are ill-informed, but, I think that using omnidirectional mics would be MORE likely to pick up sound from behind the camera when compared to using mics with a cardioid pattern (or a mid-side pattern).

I know with omnidirectional lav mics, they are often placed facing AWAY from the speaker's mouth (to reduce plosives and silibants, or to reduce wind noise when someone breathes heavily through there nose, and their breath would directly strike the mic capsule). Those omnidirectional lav mics still do a very good job of picking up the voice of the speaker (whose mouth would then be "behind" the mic).

After thinking about it, those mics being omnidirectional might not be the best choice. Another option might be a Rycote CA-O8 matched pair which are cardioid pattern and might work better as they are not omnidirectional and will pick up far less sound from the back which is what I want: https://rycote.com/rycote-ca-8-sp-stereo-pair-cardioid-microphones-ryc079006/

 

[DNature]

Would theRode NT4 work for you?

I have had a look at that and maybe not. The self noise is just a bit higher than I want.

I know I said no very short microphones, but I had a look to see what is within my budget and I could get a matched pair of Rycote OM-08 which is omnidirectional and has a self noise of 11dbA: https://rycote.com/rycote-omnidirectional-condenser-microphone-ryc079005/

I am still not yet sure and the only sound recordings I could find taken with the OM-08 are of a guitar and of water/ocean sounds and ocean/rushing water sounds are not the most helpful in determining how good a microphone is for field recording, especially in quieter locations.
The only thing is that I don't want to pickup as much sound behind the microphone such as potentially picking up sounds from myself moving (I try to avoid making any sounds when recording audio) or potential fan noises so I am not sure if omnidirectional mics would be the best to use with a camera.
--
If find that the best way to live life, is not in the pursuit of material possessions, but its to live in the pursuit of making positive differences to both other people and to the planet as a whole and if you can get others to do similar or the same, so much the better.

Omnidirectional mics, as you say, pick up sounds all around - including of you breathing or moving behind the camera. That would be much more noticeable than the mics' self-noise.

These particular mics seem to require xlr inputs and 48v phantom power. No way you are going to mount them on your camera or connect them to the camera's audio input, which is not xlr and does not provide phantom power unless you use an adapter. Sounds like a very cumbersome setup.

And I do not know how you protect those two mics from wind noise, which, again, is far more important than mic s/n.

Yes I realised that the omnidirectional pattern probably wouldn't be great for using with a camera as I don't want to optentially pick up unwanted sounds from behind the mic so I was thinking the Rycote CA-08 might be better as it has a cardioid pattern and will pick up far less sound from the back.

I am using a Sounddevices MixPre-3 II audio recorder so won't be using them plugged into the camera. I rarely if ever use a microphone plugged into a camera if I can help it and like to use external audio recorders for recording audio.

--

If find that the best way to live life, is not in the pursuit of material possessions, but its to live in the pursuit of making positive differences to both other people and to the planet as a whole and if you can get others to do similar or the same, so much the better.

 

[bing041]

Would theRode NT4 work for you?

I have had a look at that and maybe not. The self noise is just a bit higher than I want.

I know I said no very short microphones, but I had a look to see what is within my budget and I could get a matched pair of Rycote OM-08 which is omnidirectional and has a self noise of 11dbA: https://rycote.com/rycote-omnidirectional-condenser-microphone-ryc079005/

I am still not yet sure and the only sound recordings I could find taken with the OM-08 are of a guitar and of water/ocean sounds and ocean/rushing water sounds are not the most helpful in determining how good a microphone is for field recording, especially in quieter locations.
The only thing is that I don't want to pickup as much sound behind the microphone such as potentially picking up sounds from myself moving (I try to avoid making any sounds when recording audio) or potential fan noises so I am not sure if omnidirectional mics would be the best to use with a camera.
--
If find that the best way to live life, is not in the pursuit of material possessions, but its to live in the pursuit of making positive differences to both other people and to the planet as a whole and if you can get others to do similar or the same, so much the better.

Omnidirectional mics, as you say, pick up sounds all around - including of you breathing or moving behind the camera. That would be much more noticeable than the mics' self-noise.

These particular mics seem to require xlr inputs and 48v phantom power. No way you are going to mount them on your camera or connect them to the camera's audio input, which is not xlr and does not provide phantom power unless you use an adapter. Sounds like a very cumbersome setup.

And I do not know how you protect those two mics from wind noise, which, again, is far more important than mic s/n.

Yes I realised that the omnidirectional pattern probably wouldn't be great for using with a camera as I don't want to optentially pick up unwanted sounds from behind the mic so I was thinking the Rycote CA-08 might be better as it has a cardioid pattern and will pick up far less sound from the back.

I am using a Sounddevices MixPre-3 II audio recorder so won't be using them plugged into the camera. I rarely if ever use a microphone plugged into a camera if I can help it and like to use external audio recorders for recording audio.
--

If find that the best way to live life, is not in the pursuit of material possessions, but its to live in the pursuit of making positive differences to both other people and to the planet as a whole and if you can get others to do similar or the same, so much the better.

Ok. Btw, if you are going to ask for audio advice, you can see it would be helpful to provide details of how you record audio. That's a serious audio recorder!

All I now have left to say is that those foam windshields pictured with the Rycote CA-08 are for show. They are not effective for protecting against wind noise. You need deadcats (look for example at bts videos of movie sets - the boom mics always have deadcats, not foam). But my comment is based on experience (not shots of movie sets) - most of my videos are outdoors.

Finally with two separate mics there is the issue of mounting them and aligning to conform to known good mic principles - are you going to use X/Y or ORTF or what configuration?

 

[DNature]

Would theRode NT4 work for you?

I have had a look at that and maybe not. The self noise is just a bit higher than I want.

I know I said no very short microphones, but I had a look to see what is within my budget and I could get a matched pair of Rycote OM-08 which is omnidirectional and has a self noise of 11dbA: https://rycote.com/rycote-omnidirectional-condenser-microphone-ryc079005/

I am still not yet sure and the only sound recordings I could find taken with the OM-08 are of a guitar and of water/ocean sounds and ocean/rushing water sounds are not the most helpful in determining how good a microphone is for field recording, especially in quieter locations.
The only thing is that I don't want to pickup as much sound behind the microphone such as potentially picking up sounds from myself moving (I try to avoid making any sounds when recording audio) or potential fan noises so I am not sure if omnidirectional mics would be the best to use with a camera.
--
If find that the best way to live life, is not in the pursuit of material possessions, but its to live in the pursuit of making positive differences to both other people and to the planet as a whole and if you can get others to do similar or the same, so much the better.

Omnidirectional mics, as you say, pick up sounds all around - including of you breathing or moving behind the camera. That would be much more noticeable than the mics' self-noise.

These particular mics seem to require xlr inputs and 48v phantom power. No way you are going to mount them on your camera or connect them to the camera's audio input, which is not xlr and does not provide phantom power unless you use an adapter. Sounds like a very cumbersome setup.

And I do not know how you protect those two mics from wind noise, which, again, is far more important than mic s/n.

Yes I realised that the omnidirectional pattern probably wouldn't be great for using with a camera as I don't want to optentially pick up unwanted sounds from behind the mic so I was thinking the Rycote CA-08 might be better as it has a cardioid pattern and will pick up far less sound from the back.

I am using a Sounddevices MixPre-3 II audio recorder so won't be using them plugged into the camera. I rarely if ever use a microphone plugged into a camera if I can help it and like to use external audio recorders for recording audio.
--

If find that the best way to live life, is not in the pursuit of material possessions, but its to live in the pursuit of making positive differences to both other people and to the planet as a whole and if you can get others to do similar or the same, so much the better.

Ok. Btw, if you are going to ask for audio advice, you can see it would be helpful to provide details of how you record audio. That's a serious audio recorder!

All I now have left to say is that those foam windshields pictured with the Rycote CA-08 are for show. They are not effective for protecting against wind noise. You need deadcats (look for example at bts videos of movie sets - the boom mics always have deadcats, not foam). But my comment is based on experience (not shots of movie sets) - most of my videos are outdoors.

Finally with two separate mics there is the issue of mounting them and aligning to conform to known good mic principles - are you going to use X/Y or ORTF or what configuration?

I did, I mentioned in my first post I'd be using that audio recorder for recording audio. For windshield, I didn't mean those foam filters, I meant something like this: https://rycote.com/microphone-windshield-shock-mount/bbg-windshield/

If I get these mics, (still not 100% sure on them yet) I'll have to find a way of mounting the mics though as my main lens I use for wide shots is 16-35, so being wide angle, I won't want the windshields to show up on the top of the video.

As I have not used a mic pair for stereo before, I'd need to test configurations to see which works.

 

[bing041]

Would theRode NT4 work for you?

I have had a look at that and maybe not. The self noise is just a bit higher than I want.

I know I said no very short microphones, but I had a look to see what is within my budget and I could get a matched pair of Rycote OM-08 which is omnidirectional and has a self noise of 11dbA: https://rycote.com/rycote-omnidirectional-condenser-microphone-ryc079005/

I am still not yet sure and the only sound recordings I could find taken with the OM-08 are of a guitar and of water/ocean sounds and ocean/rushing water sounds are not the most helpful in determining how good a microphone is for field recording, especially in quieter locations.
The only thing is that I don't want to pickup as much sound behind the microphone such as potentially picking up sounds from myself moving (I try to avoid making any sounds when recording audio) or potential fan noises so I am not sure if omnidirectional mics would be the best to use with a camera.
--
If find that the best way to live life, is not in the pursuit of material possessions, but its to live in the pursuit of making positive differences to both other people and to the planet as a whole and if you can get others to do similar or the same, so much the better.

Omnidirectional mics, as you say, pick up sounds all around - including of you breathing or moving behind the camera. That would be much more noticeable than the mics' self-noise.

These particular mics seem to require xlr inputs and 48v phantom power. No way you are going to mount them on your camera or connect them to the camera's audio input, which is not xlr and does not provide phantom power unless you use an adapter. Sounds like a very cumbersome setup.

And I do not know how you protect those two mics from wind noise, which, again, is far more important than mic s/n.

Yes I realised that the omnidirectional pattern probably wouldn't be great for using with a camera as I don't want to optentially pick up unwanted sounds from behind the mic so I was thinking the Rycote CA-08 might be better as it has a cardioid pattern and will pick up far less sound from the back.

I am using a Sounddevices MixPre-3 II audio recorder so won't be using them plugged into the camera. I rarely if ever use a microphone plugged into a camera if I can help it and like to use external audio recorders for recording audio.
--

If find that the best way to live life, is not in the pursuit of material possessions, but its to live in the pursuit of making positive differences to both other people and to the planet as a whole and if you can get others to do similar or the same, so much the better.

Ok. Btw, if you are going to ask for audio advice, you can see it would be helpful to provide details of how you record audio. That's a serious audio recorder!

All I now have left to say is that those foam windshields pictured with the Rycote CA-08 are for show. They are not effective for protecting against wind noise. You need deadcats (look for example at bts videos of movie sets - the boom mics always have deadcats, not foam). But my comment is based on experience (not shots of movie sets) - most of my videos are outdoors.

Finally with two separate mics there is the issue of mounting them and aligning to conform to known good mic principles - are you going to use X/Y or ORTF or what configuration?

I did, I mentioned in my first post I'd be using that audio recorder for recording audio. For windshield, I didn't mean those foam filters, I meant something like this: https://rycote.com/microphone-windshield-shock-mount/bbg-windshield/
If I get these mics, (still not 100% sure on them yet) I'll have to find a way of mounting the mics though as my main lens I use for wide shots is 16-35, so being wide angle, I won't want the windshields to show up on the top of the video.
As I have not used a mic pair for stereo before, I'd need to test configurations to see which works.

Sorry I missed the recorder mention.

That windshield would preclude the X/Y configuration but would work with ORTF.

 

[Andre Yew]

I need a microphone setup for stereo audio recording. I'll be using my Sounddevices MixPre 3-II. I am looking for:

1. Budget: around £800 or so including windshield and mount
2. Either Stereo XY or stereo pair but must have XLR
3. I need to mount them on the camera or camera cage, so not off camera
4. Low self noise and good sensitivity to reduce noise in audio

You might want to check out Morten Hilmer's setup and you can hear them in his videos. He uses spaced monos which are a classic stereo micing technique, but you do need them fairly widely spaced (as Morten does) or put a barrier between them (cf. Jecklin disk). I can see mounting the spaced pair high on top of a camera.

He mixes in his stereo recording in this video:

He uses matched mics from a UK company, so that might be easier for you too: https://micbooster.com/clippy-and-pluggy-microphones/99-xlr-stereo-clippy-em272-microphone.html

You probably know this already, but just in case: even though the MixPre is a very nice recorder, if you ever need a smaller setup, Panasonic's XLR1 adapter works on the S5II and supports a pair of phantom-powered XLR jacks.

 

[DNature]

I need a microphone setup for stereo audio recording. I'll be using my Sounddevices MixPre 3-II. I am looking for:

1. Budget: around £800 or so including windshield and mount
2. Either Stereo XY or stereo pair but must have XLR
3. I need to mount them on the camera or camera cage, so not off camera
4. Low self noise and good sensitivity to reduce noise in audio

You might want to check out Morten Hilmer's setup and you can hear them in his videos. He uses spaced monos which are a classic stereo micing technique, but you do need them fairly widely spaced (as Morten does) or put a barrier between them (cf. Jecklin disk). I can see mounting the spaced pair high on top of a camera.

He mixes in his stereo recording in this video:

He uses matched mics from a UK company, so that might be easier for you too: https://micbooster.com/clippy-and-pluggy-microphones/99-xlr-stereo-clippy-em272-microphone.html

You probably know this already, but just in case: even though the MixPre is a very nice recorder, if you ever need a smaller setup, Panasonic's XLR1 adapter works on the S5II and supports a pair of phantom-powered XLR jacks.

Thanks for the info. I like the sound those clippy mics produce, especially for such a small mic. However as they are omnidirectional they are not sutibale to use with my camera but I'll keep them in mind if I want to record background audio away from my camera. I have ordered a matched pair of Rycote CA-08 microphones and they should be better for my needs as they are cardioid and will pick up far less sound from the back.

 

[bing041]

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/68251962

You received plenty of advice. Why are you posting this again?

 

[DNature]

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/68251962

You received plenty of advice. Why are you posting this again?

I don't know what you mean about posting this again, the last thing I did was reply to the last reply I received.

--
If find that the best way to live life, is not in the pursuit of material possessions, but its to live in the pursuit of making positive differences to both other people and to the planet as a whole and if you can get others to do similar or the same, so much the better.

 

[Off The Mark]

I know you mentioned you have a MixPre 3 II, and are looking specifically for a mic setup that can work with that, but...

Curtis Judd did a review of the Zoom H5 Studio and he was pretty impressed with it. I think you could find a way to mount it relatively easily on top of your camera.

Several commentors said that they mount the H5 Studio in a shock mount to reduce handling noise.

It might allow you to kill two or three birds with one stone: Mount (relatively) easily on top of the camera, stereo cardioid mics, 32-bit float, relatively affordable price at US $370, easier to travel with when compared to two SDC mics and a Mir Pre 3 II.