SOOC JPEG Focus Check [X-S20]

[DNBush]

I'm checking out an S-X20 and have just now gotten around to shooting some more test photos. The one below is a puzzle. I was seated with my elbows resting on my knees so pretty stable for sure. If you look at this image at 100%, the area of the corner of the house and the tree branches to the right (where I focused) it's not in sharp focus. I was using AF-S and P mode. EXIF tells the rest. Any ideas?

Oh, I processed the RAW using DxO and there I just turned on lens corrections and brought up the shadows a bit. That same area, at 100%, is noticeably more in focus. Again, why? (for some reason I can't get that exported JPEG to upload here).

 

[Erik Baumgartner]

I'm checking out an S-X20 and have just now gotten around to shooting some more test photos. The one below is a puzzle. I was seated with my elbows resting on my knees so pretty stable for sure. If you look at this image at 100%, the area of the corner of the house and the tree branches to the right (where I focused) it's not in sharp focus. I was using AF-S and P mode. EXIF tells the rest. Any ideas?

Oh, I processed the RAW using DxO and there I just turned on lens corrections and brought up the shadows a bit. That same area, at 100%, is noticeably more in focus. Again, why? (for some reason I can't get that exported JPEG to upload here).

Was the wind blowing? With a little extra sharpening this looks just fine to me, pretty much what I'd expect to see with this lens...







Uploading the original jpeg shouldn't be a problem.

 

[DNBush]

I'm checking out an S-X20 and have just now gotten around to shooting some more test photos. The one below is a puzzle. I was seated with my elbows resting on my knees so pretty stable for sure. If you look at this image at 100%, the area of the corner of the house and the tree branches to the right (where I focused) it's not in sharp focus. I was using AF-S and P mode. EXIF tells the rest. Any ideas?

Oh, I processed the RAW using DxO and there I just turned on lens corrections and brought up the shadows a bit. That same area, at 100%, is noticeably more in focus. Again, why? (for some reason I can't get that exported JPEG to upload here).

Was the wind blowing? With a little extra sharpening this looks just fine to me, pretty much what I'd expect to see with this lens...

I don’t recall any wind. Of course, the house would not have been moving even if there was wind. And I’m comparing the sharpness of those roof tiles.



So are saying that I should add sharpening to the photos out of this camera in order to get them in focus?

 

[Erik Baumgartner]

I'm checking out an S-X20 and have just now gotten around to shooting some more test photos. The one below is a puzzle. I was seated with my elbows resting on my knees so pretty stable for sure. If you look at this image at 100%, the area of the corner of the house and the tree branches to the right (where I focused) it's not in sharp focus. I was using AF-S and P mode. EXIF tells the rest. Any ideas?

Oh, I processed the RAW using DxO and there I just turned on lens corrections and brought up the shadows a bit. That same area, at 100%, is noticeably more in focus. Again, why? (for some reason I can't get that exported JPEG to upload here).

Was the wind blowing? With a little extra sharpening this looks just fine to me, pretty much what I'd expect to see with this lens...

I don’t recall any wind. Of course, the house would not have been moving even if there was wind. And I’m comparing the sharpness of those roof tiles.

So are saying that I should add sharpening to the photos out of this camera in order to get them in focus?

RAW files always require some sharpening. Fuji jpegs should look OK SOOC with a sharp lens, but there is often some loss of fine detail from the default NR (many folks run their NR at -4 which is typically still plenty). I don't typically shoot jpegs, but when I do, I usually set the sharpening at +1 or +2 (with a zoom) if I don't want to do any post processing.

 

[DNBush]

I'm checking out an S-X20 and have just now gotten around to shooting some more test photos. The one below is a puzzle. I was seated with my elbows resting on my knees so pretty stable for sure. If you look at this image at 100%, the area of the corner of the house and the tree branches to the right (where I focused) it's not in sharp focus. I was using AF-S and P mode. EXIF tells the rest. Any ideas?

Oh, I processed the RAW using DxO and there I just turned on lens corrections and brought up the shadows a bit. That same area, at 100%, is noticeably more in focus. Again, why? (for some reason I can't get that exported JPEG to upload here).

Was the wind blowing? With a little extra sharpening this looks just fine to me, pretty much what I'd expect to see with this lens...

I don’t recall any wind. Of course, the house would not have been moving even if there was wind. And I’m comparing the sharpness of those roof tiles.

So are saying that I should add sharpening to the photos out of this camera in order to get them in focus?

RAW files always require some sharpening. Fuji jpegs should look OK SOOC with a sharp lens, but there is often some loss of fine detail from the default NR (many folks run their NR at -4 which is typically still plenty). I don't typically shoot jpegs, but when I do, I usually set the sharpening at +1 or +2 (with a zoom) if I don't want to do any post processing.

I’ll look into the NR tomorrow and shoot some more scenes. Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[DNBush]

I'm checking out an S-X20 and have just now gotten around to shooting some more test photos. The one below is a puzzle. I was seated with my elbows resting on my knees so pretty stable for sure. If you look at this image at 100%, the area of the corner of the house and the tree branches to the right (where I focused) it's not in sharp focus. I was using AF-S and P mode. EXIF tells the rest. Any ideas?

Oh, I processed the RAW using DxO and there I just turned on lens corrections and brought up the shadows a bit. That same area, at 100%, is noticeably more in focus. Again, why? (for some reason I can't get that exported JPEG to upload here).

Was the wind blowing? With a little extra sharpening this looks just fine to me, pretty much what I'd expect to see with this lens...

I don’t recall any wind. Of course, the house would not have been moving even if there was wind. And I’m comparing the sharpness of those roof tiles.

So are saying that I should add sharpening to the photos out of this camera in order to get them in focus?

RAW files always require some sharpening. Fuji jpegs should look OK SOOC with a sharp lens, but there is often some loss of fine detail from the default NR (many folks run their NR at -4 which is typically still plenty)

Are you referring to the High ISO NR or Long Exposure NR?

 

[Erik Baumgartner]

I'm checking out an S-X20 and have just now gotten around to shooting some more test photos. The one below is a puzzle. I was seated with my elbows resting on my knees so pretty stable for sure. If you look at this image at 100%, the area of the corner of the house and the tree branches to the right (where I focused) it's not in sharp focus. I was using AF-S and P mode. EXIF tells the rest. Any ideas?

Oh, I processed the RAW using DxO and there I just turned on lens corrections and brought up the shadows a bit. That same area, at 100%, is noticeably more in focus. Again, why? (for some reason I can't get that exported JPEG to upload here).

Was the wind blowing? With a little extra sharpening this looks just fine to me, pretty much what I'd expect to see with this lens...

I don’t recall any wind. Of course, the house would not have been moving even if there was wind. And I’m comparing the sharpness of those roof tiles.

So are saying that I should add sharpening to the photos out of this camera in order to get them in focus?

RAW files always require some sharpening. Fuji jpegs should look OK SOOC with a sharp lens, but there is often some loss of fine detail from the default NR (many folks run their NR at -4 which is typically still plenty)

Are you referring to the High ISO NR or Long Exposure NR?

High ISO NR (which effects all ISOs).

 

[DNBush]

I'm checking out an S-X20 and have just now gotten around to shooting some more test photos. The one below is a puzzle. I was seated with my elbows resting on my knees so pretty stable for sure. If you look at this image at 100%, the area of the corner of the house and the tree branches to the right (where I focused) it's not in sharp focus. I was using AF-S and P mode. EXIF tells the rest. Any ideas?

Oh, I processed the RAW using DxO and there I just turned on lens corrections and brought up the shadows a bit. That same area, at 100%, is noticeably more in focus. Again, why? (for some reason I can't get that exported JPEG to upload here).

Was the wind blowing? With a little extra sharpening this looks just fine to me, pretty much what I'd expect to see with this lens...

I don’t recall any wind. Of course, the house would not have been moving even if there was wind. And I’m comparing the sharpness of those roof tiles.

So are saying that I should add sharpening to the photos out of this camera in order to get them in focus?

RAW files always require some sharpening. Fuji jpegs should look OK SOOC with a sharp lens, but there is often some loss of fine detail from the default NR (many folks run their NR at -4 which is typically still plenty)

Are you referring to the High ISO NR or Long Exposure NR?

High ISO NR (which effects all ISOs).

OK. Mine is set at zero (default).

 

[Erik Baumgartner]

I'm checking out an S-X20 and have just now gotten around to shooting some more test photos. The one below is a puzzle. I was seated with my elbows resting on my knees so pretty stable for sure. If you look at this image at 100%, the area of the corner of the house and the tree branches to the right (where I focused) it's not in sharp focus. I was using AF-S and P mode. EXIF tells the rest. Any ideas?

Oh, I processed the RAW using DxO and there I just turned on lens corrections and brought up the shadows a bit. That same area, at 100%, is noticeably more in focus. Again, why? (for some reason I can't get that exported JPEG to upload here).

Was the wind blowing? With a little extra sharpening this looks just fine to me, pretty much what I'd expect to see with this lens...

I don’t recall any wind. Of course, the house would not have been moving even if there was wind. And I’m comparing the sharpness of those roof tiles.

So are saying that I should add sharpening to the photos out of this camera in order to get them in focus?

RAW files always require some sharpening. Fuji jpegs should look OK SOOC with a sharp lens, but there is often some loss of fine detail from the default NR (many folks run their NR at -4 which is typically still plenty)

Are you referring to the High ISO NR or Long Exposure NR?

High ISO NR (which effects all ISOs).

OK. Mine is set at zero (default).

Yeah, as expected. Try it at -4 (minimum).

 

[DNBush]

Erik Baumgartner wrote

RAW files always require some sharpening. Fuji jpegs should look OK SOOC with a sharp lens, but there is often some loss of fine detail from the default NR (many folks run their NR at -4 which is typically still plenty)

Are you referring to the High ISO NR or Long Exposure NR?

High ISO NR (which effects all ISOs).

OK. Mine is set at zero (default).

Yeah, as expected. Try it at -4 (minimum).

Tried -4 but I don't really see any difference. Below are first at 0 then at -4

Note: the photos below were focused on the corner of the house. I'm looking at the roof tiles primarily for focus.


NR=0


NR=-4

And here's a DxO processed RAW of the NR=0 image. Lens corrections only added.



Is it possible that I'm mistaking sharpness for focus?

 

[Paulmorgan]

I'm checking out an S-X20 and have just now gotten around to shooting some more test photos. The one below is a puzzle. I was seated with my elbows resting on my knees so pretty stable for sure. If you look at this image at 100%, the area of the corner of the house and the tree branches to the right (where I focused) it's not in sharp focus. I was using AF-S and P mode. EXIF tells the rest. Any ideas?

Oh, I processed the RAW using DxO and there I just turned on lens corrections and brought up the shadows a bit. That same area, at 100%, is noticeably more in focus. Again, why? (for some reason I can't get that exported JPEG to upload here).

Foliage moves constantly even on a pretty much windless day, there's also not always a lot of contrast in leaves, they can appear much softer than they really are.

It's not a good test really.

--
Hoka Hey

 

[Ysarex]

Erik Baumgartner wrote

RAW files always require some sharpening. Fuji jpegs should look OK SOOC with a sharp lens, but there is often some loss of fine detail from the default NR (many folks run their NR at -4 which is typically still plenty)

Are you referring to the High ISO NR or Long Exposure NR?

High ISO NR (which effects all ISOs).

OK. Mine is set at zero (default).

Yeah, as expected. Try it at -4 (minimum).

Tried -4 but I don't really see any difference. Below are first at 0 then at -4

Note: the photos below were focused on the corner of the house. I'm looking at the roof tiles primarily for focus.


NR=0


NR=-4

And here's a DxO processed RAW of the NR=0 image. Lens corrections only added.



Is it possible that I'm mistaking sharpness for focus?

The DXO processed version is noticeably sharper and more detailed. The image processor in the camera is not going to be able to equal the result you get from DXO.

 

[DNBush]

I'm checking out an S-X20 and have just now gotten around to shooting some more test photos. The one below is a puzzle. I was seated with my elbows resting on my knees so pretty stable for sure. If you look at this image at 100%, the area of the corner of the house and the tree branches to the right (where I focused) it's not in sharp focus. I was using AF-S and P mode. EXIF tells the rest. Any ideas?

Oh, I processed the RAW using DxO and there I just turned on lens corrections and brought up the shadows a bit. That same area, at 100%, is noticeably more in focus. Again, why? (for some reason I can't get that exported JPEG to upload here).

Foliage moves constantly even on a pretty much windless day, there's also not always a lot of contrast in leaves, they can appear much softer than they really are.

It's not a good test really.

Yes but, and you might have missed my earlier reply, the corner of the house doesn't move in the wind and that's also where I see it not sharply in focus.

 

[DNBush]

Erik Baumgartner wrote

RAW files always require some sharpening. Fuji jpegs should look OK SOOC with a sharp lens, but there is often some loss of fine detail from the default NR (many folks run their NR at -4 which is typically still plenty)

Are you referring to the High ISO NR or Long Exposure NR?

High ISO NR (which effects all ISOs).

OK. Mine is set at zero (default).

Yeah, as expected. Try it at -4 (minimum).

Tried -4 but I don't really see any difference. Below are first at 0 then at -4

Note: the photos below were focused on the corner of the house. I'm looking at the roof tiles primarily for focus.


NR=0


NR=-4

And here's a DxO processed RAW of the NR=0 image. Lens corrections only added.



Is it possible that I'm mistaking sharpness for focus?

The DXO processed version is noticeably sharper and more detailed. The image processor in the camera is not going to be able to equal the result you get from DXO.

I agree but, to my eye, it's not sharpness but focus. The SOOC JPEG looks out of focus.

 

[Erik Baumgartner]

Erik Baumgartner wrote

RAW files always require some sharpening. Fuji jpegs should look OK SOOC with a sharp lens, but there is often some loss of fine detail from the default NR (many folks run their NR at -4 which is typically still plenty)

Are you referring to the High ISO NR or Long Exposure NR?

High ISO NR (which effects all ISOs).

OK. Mine is set at zero (default).

Yeah, as expected. Try it at -4 (minimum).

Tried -4 but I don't really see any difference.

I agree, they look about the same (fine). I'd leave at -4 then - you will likely see a difference in lower light situations, and you can always add some NR if necessary in post, but you can remove it if there's too much.

Below are first at 0 then at -4

Note: the photos below were focused on the corner of the house. I'm looking at the roof tiles primarily for focus.


NR=0


NR=-4

And here's a DxO processed RAW of the NR=0 image. Lens corrections only added.



Is it possible that I'm mistaking sharpness for focus?

Yes, probably. RAW files always require some sharpening to mitigate the softening effect of the color filter/demosaicing process. The jpegs have already had significant enhancement applied SOOC. I'm not a DxO user, but I'm sure you can fine-tune the default sharpening settings for a slightly crisper initial rendering if that's what you prefer.

 

[DNBush]

Erik Baumgartner wrote

RAW files always require some sharpening. Fuji jpegs should look OK SOOC with a sharp lens, but there is often some loss of fine detail from the default NR (many folks run their NR at -4 which is typically still plenty)

Are you referring to the High ISO NR or Long Exposure NR?

High ISO NR (which effects all ISOs).

OK. Mine is set at zero (default).

Yeah, as expected. Try it at -4 (minimum).

Tried -4 but I don't really see any difference.

I agree, they look about the same (fine). I'd leave at -4 then - you will likely see a difference in lower light situations, and you can always add some NR if necessary in post, but you can remove it if there's too much.

Below are first at 0 then at -4

Note: the photos below were focused on the corner of the house. I'm looking at the roof tiles primarily for focus.


NR=0


NR=-4

And here's a DxO processed RAW of the NR=0 image. Lens corrections only added.



Is it possible that I'm mistaking sharpness for focus?

Yes, probably. RAW files always require some sharpening to mitigate the softening effect of the color filter/demosaicing process. The jpegs have already had significant enhancement applied SOOC. I'm not a DxO user, but I'm sure you can fine-tune the default sharpening settings for a slightly crisper initial rendering if that's what you prefer.

OK. But my original issue still remains. The SOOC JPEGs seem out of focus to me.

I think I'll choose a couple different targets for more testing.

Again, thank you for your help.

 

[Erik Baumgartner]

Erik Baumgartner wrote

RAW files always require some sharpening. Fuji jpegs should look OK SOOC with a sharp lens, but there is often some loss of fine detail from the default NR (many folks run their NR at -4 which is typically still plenty)

Are you referring to the High ISO NR or Long Exposure NR?

High ISO NR (which effects all ISOs).

OK. Mine is set at zero (default).

Yeah, as expected. Try it at -4 (minimum).

Tried -4 but I don't really see any difference.

I agree, they look about the same (fine). I'd leave at -4 then - you will likely see a difference in lower light situations, and you can always add some NR if necessary in post, but you can remove it if there's too much.

Below are first at 0 then at -4

Note: the photos below were focused on the corner of the house. I'm looking at the roof tiles primarily for focus.


NR=0


NR=-4

And here's a DxO processed RAW of the NR=0 image. Lens corrections only added.



Is it possible that I'm mistaking sharpness for focus?

Yes, probably. RAW files always require some sharpening to mitigate the softening effect of the color filter/demosaicing process. The jpegs have already had significant enhancement applied SOOC. I'm not a DxO user, but I'm sure you can fine-tune the default sharpening settings for a slightly crisper initial rendering if that's what you prefer.

OK. But my original issue still remains. The SOOC JPEGs seem out of focus to me.

They don't look out of focus to me at all.

I think I'll choose a couple different targets for more testing.

Good idea, try bumping up the jpeg sharpening a tad too, see if that helps.

Again, thank you for your help.

 

[DNBush]

Erik Baumgartner wrote

RAW files always require some sharpening. Fuji jpegs should look OK SOOC with a sharp lens, but there is often some loss of fine detail from the default NR (many folks run their NR at -4 which is typically still plenty)

Are you referring to the High ISO NR or Long Exposure NR?

High ISO NR (which effects all ISOs).

OK. Mine is set at zero (default).

Yeah, as expected. Try it at -4 (minimum).

Tried -4 but I don't really see any difference.

I agree, they look about the same (fine). I'd leave at -4 then - you will likely see a difference in lower light situations, and you can always add some NR if necessary in post, but you can remove it if there's too much.

Below are first at 0 then at -4

Note: the photos below were focused on the corner of the house. I'm looking at the roof tiles primarily for focus.


NR=0


NR=-4

And here's a DxO processed RAW of the NR=0 image. Lens corrections only added.



Is it possible that I'm mistaking sharpness for focus?

Yes, probably. RAW files always require some sharpening to mitigate the softening effect of the color filter/demosaicing process. The jpegs have already had significant enhancement applied SOOC. I'm not a DxO user, but I'm sure you can fine-tune the default sharpening settings for a slightly crisper initial rendering if that's what you prefer.

OK. But my original issue still remains. The SOOC JPEGs seem out of focus to me.

They don't look out of focus to me at all.

They don't? Even at 100%? Maybe it's my eyes. :-(

I think I'll choose a couple different targets for more testing.

Good idea, try bumping up the jpeg sharpening a tad too, see if that helps.

I will.

Again, thank you for your help.

 

[Erik Baumgartner]

Erik Baumgartner wrote

RAW files always require some sharpening. Fuji jpegs should look OK SOOC with a sharp lens, but there is often some loss of fine detail from the default NR (many folks run their NR at -4 which is typically still plenty)

Are you referring to the High ISO NR or Long Exposure NR?

High ISO NR (which effects all ISOs).

OK. Mine is set at zero (default).

Yeah, as expected. Try it at -4 (minimum).

Tried -4 but I don't really see any difference.

I agree, they look about the same (fine). I'd leave at -4 then - you will likely see a difference in lower light situations, and you can always add some NR if necessary in post, but you can remove it if there's too much.

Below are first at 0 then at -4

Note: the photos below were focused on the corner of the house. I'm looking at the roof tiles primarily for focus.


NR=0


NR=-4

And here's a DxO processed RAW of the NR=0 image. Lens corrections only added.



Is it possible that I'm mistaking sharpness for focus?

Yes, probably. RAW files always require some sharpening to mitigate the softening effect of the color filter/demosaicing process. The jpegs have already had significant enhancement applied SOOC. I'm not a DxO user, but I'm sure you can fine-tune the default sharpening settings for a slightly crisper initial rendering if that's what you prefer.

OK. But my original issue still remains. The SOOC JPEGs seem out of focus to me.

They don't look out of focus to me at all.

They don't? Even at 100%? Maybe it's my eyes. :-(

On my monitor they look a tad better than the DxO conversion (some of that is the brighter rendering).

I think I'll choose a couple different targets for more testing.

Good idea, try bumping up the jpeg sharpening a tad too, see if that helps.

I will.

Again, thank you for your help.

 

[Bill Ferris]

You've gotten some solid feedback, already, especially from Erik. Looking at the test photo full-size, I see nothing concerning. There are, however, aspects of how the photo was made that limit it's usefulness as a test of lens performance.

The aperture used, f/8, is not where the 16-50 is sharpest at 16mm. Based on the MTF chart published by LensTip, f/4 or f/5.6 is where this zoom shines at the short end. A wider aperture with a shallower depth of field also would make it easier to confirm that the image is focused where you intended to focus. At 16mm f/8, depth of field is great enough that it's not possible to confirm focus was acquired where you intended.

Speaking of focus acquisition, you mentioned focusing on the tree. Unlike the solid exterior wall of a house which is at a specific distance, focusing on the branches of a tree allows for focus to be acquired at a range of distances spanning several meters. Was focus acquired on the nearest branch or a more distant one visible through a gap? It's impossible to know given the f-stop use.

As has been mentioned in other comments, the 1/160-second shutter speed is more than fast enough for a handheld photo at 16mm of a house. It's also slow enough that any leaf or branch movement could be rendered as blur. This eliminates the tree as a reliable indicator of critical focus and detail.

The photo looks fine. There's nothing concerning, no obviously soft detail on the house exterior. The settings used limit the usefulness of the photo for evaluating where focus was acquired and how capable the lens is at rendering detail.

When checking a new lens, I always set up the camera on a tripod indoors with a simple test scene. I usually set up three items at different distances on a table or shelf. Working with a zoom lens, I'll make photos with the lens wide open at the short & long ends and a focal length in-between. I'll then repeat the photos with the lens closed down a stop from wide open.

AF-S mode using a single point or small zone allows me to precisely target where in the scene I'm acquiring focus. The shallow depth of field aids in confirming the lens focuses where I've chosen and also demonstrates how pleasing background & foreground rendering are. Making some photos at the sharpest f-stop can confirm that the lens is sharp enough for your taste.

Assuming the lens passes muster on the indoor test, I'll take it outside and make some photos. The key for me is to choose subjects and use settings that allow me to confirm the lens focuses where I choose, renders the subject with good detail, and pleasingly renders a defocused background or foreground.

Good luck and enjoy the new kit.