Sometimes it feels only Adobe understands

StephaneB

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After years of using the Photographer subscription and using mainly Lightroom Classic, I tallied how much money I had spent on Adobe without anything to show for it. So I decided, and that's definitive, that I wouldn't use any other software that does not offer a perpetual license.

So I switched. After what I thought was a pretty complete evaluation of different alternatives, I shortlisted Capture One and DXO PhotoLab.

PhotoLab won for different reasons.

It turns out my "careful" evaluation was not all that good. I overlooked the fact that DXO PhotoLab does not allow to create smart albums. This is incredible to me. I feel stupid for overlooking that, but at the same time it is the last thing I expected them not to include.

Neither product includes photo stacking (grouping). I knew that before buying, but it turns out to be more important to me than I thought. It is only when you stop having something that you realise how important it was.

Now, smart albums and stacking are pretty important and not all that difficult to implement. I've worked in software development, I have an understanding of what is very complex or not. Besides, when you see how it is implemented in Adobe Bridge, you completely realise it is way less difficult than many things they include in their software.

So it appears it is a lack of understanding of what photographers need, use and that different photographers have different needs and a good app would try to cater for a wide array of needs.

I have looked again. the only ones who include both stacking and smart albums are Adobe. Why, why, why? That is incomprehensible to me. Adobe includes that in Lightroom and in the *free* Bridge.

After purchasing DXO PhotoLab, I also came across the petty business practices of DXO. PhotoLab does not include the luminosity masks, you need to buy the Film Pack to have that feature. The code is actually there already, it is just disabled and activated when you enter the Film Pack key.

And the worst: PhotoLab does not allow flipping an image horizontally or vertically. Seriously. The code is there, the feature is there, only it is disabled until you enter the key for ViewPoint! I mean, really? It is hard to think of a feature more basic than flipping the image. Hard also to think of cheaper ones to implement. This is so petty, so ridiculous.

It is again beyond me to understand why intelligent people would do that. Instead of ensuring customer satisfaction, securing future upgrade revenue, no, they chose to deliberately enrage their customer with such a vexing issue. I did not buy ViewPoint, it would have made me feel too much as a fool. So the ploy to get a few Euros more from me did not work. On the contrary, it kept me alert to alternatives.

Also, in DXO, there is not way to see the content of subfolders. I wonder if they even talk to photographers.

It turns out PhotoLab is a glorious RAW converter with a toy library management and DXO's petty business practices grafted on it.

In any case, I am not returning to Adobe, especially at the new price of 25€/month!

I'll keep an eye on how C1 evolves. If they add stacking, mmm, maybe.
 
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Interesting comments. Thank you, StephaneB

There are some people (like me) who do appreciate all the work and thought Adobe has put into Lightroom Classic. And I know I am not alone. Even after using it for 15 years or so, I still find features that I never knew were in there. (This is not to say Adobe software is perfect, nor am I saying you have to like Adobe. I am just stating my appreciation for all the thought they have put into in Lightroom Classic).

If you are going to now complain that feature XYZ is not in Lightroom Classic, that's not the point and I will most likely ignore you. No software has every feature that everyone wants.

@StephaneB I have one minor quibble with what you wrote, I have added text in italics/bold to improve clarity:
I have looked again. the only ones who include both stacking and smart albums are Adobe. Why, why, why? That is incomprehensible to me. Adobe includes that in Lightroom Classic and in the *free* Bridge.
--
Paige Miller
 
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After years of using the Photographer subscription and using mainly Lightroom Classic, .

I switched. .shortlisted Capture One .

..

I'll keep an eye on how C1 evolves. If they add stacking, mmm, maybe.
A number of years ago, I switched from Lightroom to Capture One. I really liked the post processing, the colors, etc.

But their catalog became a disaster. Then they started their focus change to professionals who shot models in and out of studios. Still good software, but not me. I am nature, events, family, travel, and outdoor life. No real catalog, they focussed on Sessions; probably good for their studio focus.

I switched back to Lightroom, soon it became Lightroom Classic. Photoshop is a bonus. I have a catalog of over 180,000 photos and could probably never move elsewhere and be happy and productive. I'd miss the easy searching and control I have of my folders, and interaction with collections, etc. The Photographer's package of LR Classic, LR cloudy (including Mobile) and Photoshop is sort of like a Swiss Army Knife. It has all the tools I need . Not all the tools are perfect, but it keeps evolving.
 
Neither product includes photo stacking (grouping).
In Capture One:

1. You could use keywords and add pictures to smart albums based on keyword + wildcard combinations to mimic stacks.

2. You could simply embed the stack name in the file name of related pictures while keeping current folder or current album ordered by the file name.
 
The free program FastStone lets you reverse and flip photographs any way you want. It also straightens, organizes and addresses many of your desires. Because it's free I think it's a program everybody should own.

FastStone Image Viewer, Screen Capture, Photo Resizer ...

Download FastStone Image Viewer - MajorGeeks
I agree completely. I'm very much an Adobe user, but I stopped installing Bridge on my machine years ago and rely only on FastStone Image Viewer for file management.

While it is free though, people are invited to make a donation. I think it's important for all of us who enjoy the product to recognize that it does require money to maintain and develop and therefore to donate some amount from time-to-time.
 
The free program FastStone lets you reverse and flip photographs any way you want.
thanks, but flipping photos is a small detail, I mentionned it to illustrate the dumb thinking at DXO.

Firstly FastStone is Windows only, and that's a big no no. I don't want a software that works on only one platform.

I am on Mac currently, so I cant try it.
 
After years of using the Photographer subscription and using mainly Lightroom Classic, I tallied how much money I had spent on Adobe without anything to show for it. So I decided, and that's definitive, that I wouldn't use any other software that does not offer a perpetual license.

So I switched. After what I thought was a pretty complete evaluation of different alternatives, I shortlisted Capture One and DXO PhotoLab.
So you've only considered those three products?
Now, smart albums and stacking are pretty important and not all that difficult to implement.
I'm sure those features are important to some people, but of no importance at all to others. And surely Adobe has not thought of everything. Isn't it possible that some handy little things that some people find useful are not provided or are not well implemented in Lightroom Classic?
So it appears it is a lack of understanding of what photographers need, use and that different photographers have different needs and a good app would try to cater for a wide array of needs.
Indeed, different photographers have different needs. Suppose every photo editing product included every possible feature that a photographer might need. What would then differentiate them? Would they all cost the same? Would people who don't need every possible feature be forced to pay more for their software?
And the worst: PhotoLab does not allow flipping an image horizontally or vertically. Seriously. The code is there, the feature is there, only it is disabled until you enter the key for ViewPoint! I mean, really? It is hard to think of a feature more basic than flipping the image. Hard also to think of cheaper ones to implement. This is so petty, so ridiculous.
That's true. DxO has been sneaky about using two add-ons (ViewPoint and FilmPack) to hold some rather basic features hostage, and I've been vocal in complaining about it. My approach is to use other software to obtain those features. It's the age-old tradeoff between spending more money or spending more time in order to get something done.
 
The free program FastStone lets you reverse and flip photographs any way you want.
thanks, but flipping photos is a small detail, I mentionned it to illustrate the dumb thinking at DXO.
Faststone can do so many things that I can not post them here. That's why I supplied links.
Firstly FastStone is Windows only, and that's a big no no. I don't want a software that works on only one platform.

I am on Mac currently, so I cant try it.
That's true and because I like and use FastStone so much I have no desire to switch to Mac. I've been using FastStone since it first came out. Can't you use FastStone while using a Windows emulator?

Best Windows emulators for Mac in 2025
 
After what I thought was a pretty complete evaluation of different alternatives, I shortlisted Capture One and DXO PhotoLab.
So you've only considered those three products?
Didn't I mention I evaluated other alternatives?
Suppose every photo editing product included every possible feature
Absolutes are not arguments.
It's the age-old tradeoff between spending more money or spending more time in order to get something done.
Yeah, I do that too.
 
After years of using the Photographer subscription and using mainly Lightroom Classic, I tallied how much money I had spent on Adobe without anything to show for it. So I decided, and that's definitive, that I wouldn't use any other software that does not offer a perpetual license.
When I go to a movie theatre I have nothing to show for. Between the price of admission and popcorn 3 movies a year covers a year of subscription. That is not the only entrainment I waste my money on.

You have to love Willie Nelson who told the judge this. I spent my money on wine, women and song. I wasted the rest :-D
So I switched. After what I thought was a pretty complete evaluation of different alternatives, I shortlisted Capture One and DXO PhotoLab.

PhotoLab won for different reasons.

It turns out my "careful" evaluation was not all that good. I overlooked the fact that DXO PhotoLab does not allow to create smart albums. This is incredible to me. I feel stupid for overlooking that, but at the same time it is the last thing I expected them not to include.

Neither product includes photo stacking (grouping). I knew that before buying, but it turns out to be more important to me than I thought. It is only when you stop having something that you realise how important it was.

Now, smart albums and stacking are pretty important and not all that difficult to implement. I've worked in software development, I have an understanding of what is very complex or not. Besides, when you see how it is implemented in Adobe Bridge, you completely realise it is way less difficult than many things they include in their software.

So it appears it is a lack of understanding of what photographers need, use and that different photographers have different needs and a good app would try to cater for a wide array of needs.

I have looked again. the only ones who include both stacking and smart albums are Adobe. Why, why, why? That is incomprehensible to me. Adobe includes that in Lightroom and in the *free* Bridge.

After purchasing DXO PhotoLab, I also came across the petty business practices of DXO. PhotoLab does not include the luminosity masks, you need to buy the Film Pack to have that feature. The code is actually there already, it is just disabled and activated when you enter the Film Pack key.

And the worst: PhotoLab does not allow flipping an image horizontally or vertically. Seriously. The code is there, the feature is there, only it is disabled until you enter the key for ViewPoint! I mean, really? It is hard to think of a feature more basic than flipping the image. Hard also to think of cheaper ones to implement. This is so petty, so ridiculous.

It is again beyond me to understand why intelligent people would do that. Instead of ensuring customer satisfaction, securing future upgrade revenue, no, they chose to deliberately enrage their customer with such a vexing issue. I did not buy ViewPoint, it would have made me feel too much as a fool. So the ploy to get a few Euros more from me did not work. On the contrary, it kept me alert to alternatives.
I'm not sure you really understand what actually happened on Jan 15 of this year.
Also, in DXO, there is not way to see the content of subfolders. I wonder if they even talk to photographers.

It turns out PhotoLab is a glorious RAW converter with a toy library management and DXO's petty business practices grafted on it.

In any case, I am not returning to Adobe, especially at the new price of 25€/month!
You should have not left. You would have been grandfathered in at the price you were paying. When I signed up un 2018 I paid $119.88 US a year. When my plan matures and renews in November I will still pay $119.88 US a year. Maybe contact Adobe and see what they could do for you because you were a customer. You can still use most of LrC and you have 2GB cloud storage for life.

With the new pricing that came into effect on Jan 15 of this year, "for new customers only and for the Photo Plan only", Adobe added LrC to the Lr and 1TB storage plan for $11.99 US a month. No PS with that plan if you don't need it. People can still get LrC for a decent price.
I'll keep an eye on how C1 evolves. If they add stacking, mmm, maybe.
 
After what I thought was a pretty complete evaluation of different alternatives, I shortlisted Capture One and DXO PhotoLab.
So you've only considered those three products?
Didn't I mention I evaluated other alternatives?
If so, I didn't see where. Maybe it's where you said 'I have looked again ...' but that might mean you looked at the same three again.
Suppose every photo editing product included every possible feature
Absolutes are not arguments.
Huh? I'm not presenting arguments. I'm saying that some features you value are bound to be missing from some software. It's always been that way with me.
It's the age-old tradeoff between spending more money or spending more time in order to get something done.
Yeah, I do that too.
Okay, I'll be specific. Many things that PhotoLab lacks are included with ON1 Photo RAW. One biggie for me is luminosity masking. DxO wants new users to pay something in the area of $100 to have that, while the entire Photo RAW app is typically $40-$50. Photo RAW is of course missing some features, and some existing features are poorly implemented. However, what it does for me is well worth the cost.
 
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I initially resisted the monthly subscription cost for Photoshop. I am only interested in ACR, Bridge, and Photoshop. I don't use cloud storage and I am not interested in cloud computing. I want to do it all on my desktop, and for many years I was content to use those Adobe products and pay the upgrade cost every couple of years.

But I came around and now have come to terms with the monthly (now switched to annually to keep the fee low) fee. But with the recent advent of AI and generative computing - most of which I have little or no interest in - Adobe have introduced the token system, effectively adding a coin slot on top of the monthly (now annual) fee. It feels like they are putting fees on top of fees. I don't care for it - I wish the payment model was simple, clean, and clear.

I have been checking periodically the number of tokens I have left, mostly to ensure that none of my actions in ACR or Ps have inadvertently started using tokens. So far my balance stays at "250/250 credits left".

Peter
 
I initially resisted the monthly subscription cost for Photoshop. I am only interested in ACR, Bridge, and Photoshop. I don't use cloud storage and I am not interested in cloud computing. I want to do it all on my desktop, and for many years I was content to use those Adobe products and pay the upgrade cost every couple of years.

But I came around and now have come to terms with the monthly (now switched to annually to keep the fee low) fee. But with the recent advent of AI and generative computing - most of which I have little or no interest in - Adobe have introduced the token system, effectively adding a coin slot on top of the monthly (now annual) fee. It feels like they are putting fees on top of fees. I don't care for it - I wish the payment model was simple, clean, and clear.
I have 250 credits a month which are included. I barely get through 50.
I have been checking periodically the number of tokens I have left, mostly to ensure that none of my actions in ACR or Ps have inadvertently started using tokens. So far my balance stays at "250/250 credits left".

Peter
 
After purchasing DXO PhotoLab, I also came across the petty business practices of DXO. PhotoLab does not include the luminosity masks, you need to buy the Film Pack to have that feature. The code is actually there already, it is just disabled and activated when you enter the Film Pack key.
This is what you should have purchased to have a reasonably functioning DXO PL. But you didn't, so now you'll need to buy Film Pack and Viewpoint separately if you want to pull a luminosity mask or alter geometry.

DXO Bundle
DXO Bundle

$350 is the same as three years continuously updated with Lightroom AND Photoshop. If you are anything like the DXO people that hang out in this forum, you will upgrade Photolab et al at least once for a bunch more money.
And the worst: PhotoLab does not allow flipping an image horizontally or vertically. Seriously. The code is there, the feature is there, only it is disabled until you enter the key for ViewPoint! I mean, really? It is hard to think of a feature more basic than flipping the image. Hard also to think of cheaper ones to implement. This is so petty, so ridiculous.

It is again beyond me to understand why intelligent people would do that.
As a DXO user from Version 1 all the way through PL6 I have no answer for that.
Instead of ensuring customer satisfaction, securing future upgrade revenue, no, they chose to deliberately enrage their customer with such a vexing issue. I did not buy ViewPoint, it would have made me feel too much as a fool. So the ploy to get a few Euros more from me did not work. On the contrary, it kept me alert to alternatives.

Also, in DXO, there is not way to see the content of subfolders. I wonder if they even talk to photographers.

It turns out PhotoLab is a glorious RAW converter with a toy library management and DXO's petty business practices grafted on it.

In any case, I am not returning to Adobe, especially at the new price of 25€/month!
Yet another Adobe customer who didn't pay attention back in December to the generous offer of LR and PS for $120 billed annually. Oh well!
I'll keep an eye on how C1 evolves. If they add stacking, mmm, maybe.
C1 is a decent program for studio portrait people but is soundly bettered in each and every feature in LR/PS, starting with AI noise reduction, Panorama, AI Auto, Generative Fill, Transform Skew, Warp and the whole long laundry list of functions.
 
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C1 is a decent program for studio portrait people but is soundly bettered in each and every feature in LR/PS, starting with AI noise reduction, Panorama, AI Auto, Generative Fill, Transform Skew, Warp and the whole long laundry list of functions.
I agree with that.
 
After what I thought was a pretty complete evaluation of different alternatives, I shortlisted Capture One and DXO PhotoLab.
So you've only considered those three products?
Didn't I mention I evaluated other alternatives?
If so, I didn't see where. Maybe it's where you said 'I have looked again ...' but that might mean you looked at the same three again.
Suppose every photo editing product included every possible feature
Absolutes are not arguments.
Huh? I'm not presenting arguments. I'm saying that some features you value are bound to be missing from some software. It's always been that way with me.
Underlined above :) C1 and DXO were the shortlist.
It's the age-old tradeoff between spending more money or spending more time in order to get something done.
Yeah, I do that too.
Okay, I'll be specific. Many things that PhotoLab lacks are included with ON1 Photo RAW. One biggie for me is luminosity masking. DxO wants new users to pay something in the area of $100 to have that, while the entire Photo RAW app is typically $40-$50. Photo RAW is of course missing some features, and some existing features are poorly implemented. However, what it does for me is well worth the cost.
Well, I also have Affinity Phot and the Nik Collection, they all have luminosity masking. I need flipping for photo scans and I can do it in SilverFast.
 

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