Some questions before I jump in the M8 ship

[eelco88]

Hi everyone this is the first time I post on the Leica forum.
I think it might be a good idea to introduce myself.
In one and half week I become 21 and I'm doing a photography course.
At this moment I do own two Leica's, ok Pana Leica's ;-) 25 1.4 and 14-150.

Together with an Olympus E-3 of which the 7-14 14-35 and 35-100 are the best lenses I own.

From the introduction of the M8 I had a lot of interest in this camera.

Now there seems to be a point that I'm seriously considering a M8 next to my current gear.

After I read an article about a comparison between the M8 and the Nikon D3 I was sold on the M8.

Then the onlinephotographer started an interesting article about the Leica rangefinders and now there is no way back ;-)

The M7 seems to be very interesting too, but one problem within school it is only handy to use digital because of histograms and processing.
Analogue seems to be no option for me in this case.

The questions I have before jumping in, I found a great review about Zeiss lenses on Luminous landscape.

1. 1 I hope anyone can provide some usefull links about the Leica system and sources for compatible lenses.
2. 2 On the secondhand market for example I see a lot lenses which have the same focal lengths and aperture value as the current lenses.

But they see to be a lot older, are there new designs available and are the new lenses optimized for digital use?

1. 3 An other question I read in a personal review about the M8 has problems with providing sharp gridlines for 50mm lenses. is this true for all M8's?

1. 4 are there any compatibility problems with Zeiss lenses? except for the vignetting control.

1. 5 Is the sound of the shutter far more quiet than the most silent dslr, although the M8.2 is more silent?

1. 6 Which colour to take if you do not want to be least visible.

And if you have a black leica with a silver lens or vice versa does this make your camera look odd?

1. 7 out of interest the Leica has no IR filter do the filters that are provided by Leica better(providing more sharpness) than having a IR filter on the ccd.

It also possible with more photo processing to use the higher iso's because of the sharpness?

Thanks.

Kind Regards,
Eelco

 

[MJones]

Welcome. Heading into work so can't go through line by line on the questions for what I know.

I recommend http://www.reidreviews.com - well worth the subscription rate and would answer much of what you're looking for. He contributes to Luminous Landscape so you may have come across Sean Reid there. see http://www.reidreviews.com/reidreviews/articleindextable.html for article index

For used, check out http://www.keh.com and http://www.popflash.com plus any of the B&H type places for used as well. Tony Rose at pop flash is very helpful. Also see cameraquest.com for voigtlander - great options there for a lot less $$. But start with the forums. Also see http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m8-forum/ and do some queries for some topics there.

edit - just looked at your profile and saw Netherlands as home. I guess these USA retailers/used I referenced won't help much but who knows...certainly check out the other links and others will reply to your specifics.

 

[Alex Leach]

1. 2 On the secondhand market for example I see a lot lenses which have

the same focal lengths and aperture value as the current lenses.
But they see to be a lot older, are there new designs available and
are the new lenses optimized for digital use?

Not so much for digital but they are usually better - though bear in mind some older lenses have an appealing signature, e.g. 50mm Summilux pre-ASPH.

1. 3 Another question I read in a personal review about the M8 has

problems with providing sharp gridlines for 50mm lenses. is this true
for all M8's?

I find the 50 framelines not too accurate but the M8.2 is better.

1. 4 are there any compatibility problems with Zeiss lenses? except for

the vignetting control.

No, I have several Zeiss lenses and all are excellent on the M8. I'd maybe aim for Leica lenses (e.g. Summarits) for wideangle owing to the coding, and perhaps Zeiss ior Voigtlander for 35mm and longer, if cost is an issue.

1. 5 Is the sound of the shutter far more quiet than the most silent

dslr, although the M8.2 is more silent?

The shutter is quieter as there is no mirror slap, but the recocking is more audible - this can be delayed by discreet mode.

1. 6 Which colour to take if you do not want to be least visible.

And if you have a black leica with a silver lens or vice versa does
this make your camera look odd?

I have chrome but I suppose black is subtler - though chrome may make subjects feel it is an old film camera and less threatening... The silver lens on black body look is known as 'panda', and some think it quite cool.

1. 7 out of interest the Leica has no IR filter do the filters that are

provided by Leica better(providing more sharpness) than having a IR
filter on the ccd.

This leads to more detail in the photos - that's the theory.

It also possible with more photo processing to use the higher iso's
because of the sharpness?

Not sure I quite understnd, though be aware the M8 can't old a candle to the D3/D700 in the high ISO area - I have the latter. ISO 640 is OK, ISO1250 is usable.

--
Alex

 

[Isca]

Hi everyone this is the first time I post on the Leica forum.
I think it might be a good idea to introduce myself.
In one and half week I become 21 and I'm doing a photography course.
At this moment I do own two Leica's, ok Pana Leica's ;-) 25 1.4 and
14-150.
Together with an Olympus E-3 of which the 7-14 14-35 and 35-100 are
the best lenses I own.

From the introduction of the M8 I had a lot of interest in this camera.
Now there seems to be a point that I'm seriously considering a M8
next to my current gear.

After I read an article about a comparison between the M8 and the
Nikon D3 I was sold on the M8.
Then the onlinephotographer started an interesting article about the
Leica rangefinders and now there is no way back ;-)

The M7 seems to be very interesting too, but one problem within
school it is only handy to use digital because of histograms and
processing.
Analogue seems to be no option for me in this case.

The questions I have before jumping in, I found a great review about
Zeiss lenses on Luminous landscape.

1. 1 I hope anyone can provide some usefull links about the Leica

system and sources for compatible lenses.

As noted redidreviews is wwell worth the $35 per year or whatever it is, plenty of reviews and lens tests. Sean Reid is an active contributor to http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m8-forum/ as well He does quite a bit of pixel peeping but i salso keen to provide some more real world testing as well and is not afraid to share his thoughts on some of the more subjective issues such as the quality of bokeh and the likelihood of copy to copy sample variation.

1. 2 On the secondhand market for example I see a lot lenses which have

the same focal lengths and aperture value as the current lenses.
But they see to be a lot older, are there new designs available and
are the new lenses optimized for digital use?

That of course depends on the lens. But look at Voigtlander and Zeiss lenses as well as older Leica lenses. I ahve all three brands and am not disappointed by any.

1. 3 An other question I read in a personal review about the M8 has

problems with providing sharp gridlines for 50mm lenses. is this true
for all M8's?

I'm not sure I understand what you mean.

1. 4 are there any compatibility problems with Zeiss lenses? except for

the vignetting control. Some Zeiss lenses have lens mounts that make them a pain to use with the M8, I think Zeiss has rectified that issue as to which framelines the lens calls up, check if you are buying used.

1. 5 Is the sound of the shutter far more quiet than the most silent

dslr, although the M8.2 is more silent? I have a 5D Mk2, had a 5D as well. The M8, is smaller, less obtrusive and easier to carry around. It is also les snoticeable when taking photos, people are not threatened by it.

1. 6 Which colour to take if you do not want to be least visible.

And if you have a black leica with a silver lens or vice versa does

this make your camera look odd? If you look on the Leica forums you should be able ot find plenty of silver lens on black camerea examples. personally, I think it does look odd but some people like the retro look.

1. 7 out of interest the Leica has no IR filter do the filters that are

provided by Leica better(providing more sharpness) than having a IR
filter on the ccd.
It also possible with more photo processing to use the higher iso's
because of the sharpness?

The M8 isn't much good beyond iso 1250 for colour, some people say the noise is more grainy looking so they quite like high iso noisy images converted to black and white. With that said, you can get away with shooting as slow a shutter speed as 1/8 sec if you have a steady hand so that buys you some forgiveness.

Thanks.

Kind Regards,
Eelco

--
http://www.pbase.com/garethc/good_stuff

 

[reywob]

1. 5 Is the sound of the shutter far more quiet than the most silent

dslr, although the M8.2 is more silent?

This is something that greatly interests me, as I find a DSLR (D300) not to be discreet enough (in sound and visual appearance) for the photography I want to do, and don't have a Leica dealer nearby to listen to the shutter/recocking sound).

Has anyone compared the two, or come across a comparison online?

Many thanks,
Peter

 

[Bo Lorentzen]

Eelco,

Don't count too much on going beyond 1250iso.

The front mounted IR filter do not contribute to sharpness, however the lack of AA filter do.

Honestly, I love my M8, but, it is a acquired taste, and more importantly the style of photography with any M may or may not be practical for your school. Before investing check with your instructors if this camera can complete your assignments. I have the E3 also and for sure you can complete school combining work on the M8 and E3 (not counting medium and large format work)

I have Zeiss lenses, they are very good on the leica.

Bo

DOWNLOAD template for handcoding M lenses

http://bophoto.typepad.com/bophoto/2009/01/m8-coder-simple-manual-handcoding-of-m-lenses.html

Random d-lux4 images - http://bophoto.zenfolio.com/p978526368
Experimental blog - http://www.bophoto.typepad.com
Homepage - http://www.bophoto.com/panos

 

[Bo Lorentzen]

Peter,

Yes it is more silent.

BTW. Eelco - get the camera color you like, your behavior and dress code will do more for being discreet that the choice of camera color. learn to blend in, don't jump up and down, try a dark grey t-shirt etc. Move deliberately and like you are "supposed" to do this.. don't stop and look like you are about to get in trouble, just stop, do what you came to do and continue your actions. there is a big amount of body action which matters for your success, much more than a black, chrome or yellow camera.

Bo

DOWNLOAD template for handcoding M lenses

http://bophoto.typepad.com/bophoto/2009/01/m8-coder-simple-manual-handcoding-of-m-lenses.html

Random d-lux4 images - http://bophoto.zenfolio.com/p978526368
Experimental blog - http://www.bophoto.typepad.com
Homepage - http://www.bophoto.com/panos

 

[Arkon]

Between a nikon D3 and a M8, the D3 is a clear winner (technically).

 

[Alex Leach]

Between a nikon D3 and a M8, the D3 is a clear winner (technically).

Well, at high ISO, certainly. For image quality, I would often lean to the M8. For ease (and pleasure) of use, the M series and rangefinders generally, are more fun to use. I'm not decrying the Nikon, great camera, I love my D700.

The size/weight issue is important. At my brother's wedding this weekend at various London venues I've been thinking what to take and gone for the M8 and a couple of lenses over the full D700 kit even though part will be in low light - I'll just have to rely on the 35mm f/1.2 Nokton.

--
Alex

 

[genotypewriter]

1. 5 Is the sound of the shutter far more quiet than the most silent

dslr, although the M8.2 is more silent?

The shutter is quieter as there is no mirror slap, but the recocking
is more audible - this can be delayed by discreet mode.

Newer DSLRs with LiveView have two "silent" modes that which I've found very useful when taking shots inside quiet places like churches.

1. 7 out of interest the Leica has no IR filter do the filters that are

provided by Leica better(providing more sharpness) than having a IR
filter on the ccd.

This leads to more detail in the photos - that's the theory.

As someone else pointed out elsewhere, the IR cut filter (ICF) and AA filter are conceptually two different things. The M8 lacks both but the ICF has no direct involvement to sharpness... the AA filter is the one that's technically responsible for this.

If anything, the front mounted ICF will only make things worse since it's much thicker than a on-sensor ICF.

It also possible with more photo processing to use the higher iso's
because of the sharpness?

Not sure I quite understnd, though be aware the M8 can't old a candle
to the D3/D700 in the high ISO area - I have the latter. ISO 640 is
OK, ISO1250 is usable.

If one really wants to get down to the dirty details, "sharp" means high frequency spatial information... which is the same stuff that noise is made up of (keeping magnitude aside)... so a noise reduction algorithm will only find it difficult to differentiate between what's noise and what's detail and end up reducing both unless it's some good algorithm that can be told about the specifics of noise (such by giving a noise profile for the particular sensor) or something.

GTW
--
http://www.flickr.com/genotypewriter
It's about how you use your gear and not what gear you use,
It's not what you can afford to get but what you can afford to lose