Sharpness

[Bill Ferris]

Morris started a really interesting thread to share a Simon d'Entremont video explaining the difference between sharpness and resolution.

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/68346079

It's sparked a good conversation about the merits of a good lens and a high res sensor. If you've not seen it, you might enjoy checking it out.

Alex Kilbee, host of The Photographic Eye YouTube channel, recently released a video in which he talks about sharpness as an element of a photo.

He asks if sharpness is needed. Does sharpness always contribute to a good photo?

Personally, I like sharpness & detail in the photos I make of birds and other animals. But I also enjoy watching Kilbee's channel because he often encourages me to reconsider my approach or, at the very least, see a principle of photography in a different light. He keeps me on my toes.

Anyway, I hope his video can spark an interesting & productive discussion of sharpness in photos.

--
Bill Ferris Photography
Flagstaff, AZ

 

[Morris0]

Hi Bill,

I agree with everything he stated except what he stated about his photos at the end. Neither his failure or success did anything for me. Now that's the interesting thing about art. We all see differently yet some images will be liked by most while others only a small number of people.

You probably know I love to play with blur yet there can also be sharpness such as this wood duck photo:

Yet is sharpness needed?

It depends on what is to be conveyed

Morris

 

[Truman Prevatt]

Good topic, Bill. Resolution is a physical concept that is precisely defined can be measured. It's definition dates by to Lord Rayleigh in 1879. The Rayleigh criterion defines the limit of how well two point sources can be distinguished when viewed through an optical system. The definition is two point sources are just resolvable when the center of the diffraction pattern (Airy disk) of one source falls on the first minimum of the diffraction pattern of the other. Resolution defines the level of detail an optical system is capable of recording.

This has little to do with sharpness. Sharpness is more related to acutance. That is a subjective perception of visual acuity that relates to the edge contrast. Independent of resolution an image can appear sharper if it has has higher acutance, although higher acutance does not increase resolution. Acutance can be measured by the magnitude of the gradient. Resolution defines detail and acutance defines how sharp the edges of the detail is rendered.

Tools such as unsharp mask and most other sharpening algorithms work by working on increasing edge contrast. In the film days this was done chemically with high acutance developers, e.g., Rodinal.

Image resolution cannot be changed by processing. Acutance can be increased through processing. Sharpness is mostly subjective.

My perspective is increased acutance or sharpness is beneficial on some images but is a determent to others. Colorful birds can often benefit from increased acutance to the point that what one is seeming is not increased acutance but sharpening artifacts masking as detail. It can be helpful in landscape, however, it can rob a lovely land scape of smooth tonal gradations. Sharper edges would kill a wonderful Elliot Porter landscape.

My personal view is some of the artifact ridden overly sharpen images we see today have about as much appeal as a gas station velvet painting of Elvis. Just because one can crank up the edge contrast does not mean one should do so. However, at days end it gets down to a personal preference.

After using my GFX100RF for awhile I am wrestling with the best processing workflow. The main question is with the insane amount of detail that camera is capable of - what sharpening workflow should I use. I ran into some of the same on the Q2M, but the GFX sensor is a step above. My first inclination was since the detail is there and visible, I probably under sharpened. On the other hand it is easy to make those wonderful detailed files harsh if there is too much sharpening. Of course it's not the destination, it's the journey.

 

[Bill Ferris]

Those are great example images, Morris, and they illustrate an important point. It was a true light bulb moment for me when I realized low light didn't mean I couldn't make photos of animals in motion. I could still make photos, they'd just be different from what I'd envisioned doing when I left the house.

















--
Bill Ferris Photography
Flagstaff, AZ

 

[Morris0]

Your photos are lovely and show motion blur and I agree vision is very important. There is another side of this and that's the lack of critical sharpness. A well composed photo with a clear message can work even without critical sharpness, for example this image.

Morris

Those are great example images, Morris, and they illustrate an important point. It was a true light bulb moment for me when I realized low light didn't mean I couldn't make photos of animals in motion. I could still make photos, they'd just be different from what I'd envisioned doing when I left the house.

 

[Truman Prevatt]

Your photos are lovely and show motion blur and I agree vision is very important. There is another side of this and that's the lack of critical sharpness. A well composed photo with a clear message can work even without critical sharpness, for example this image.

Morris

Cartier-Bresson famously said, "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." It is not that HCB was not an excellent technical, he felt that sharpness is over rated in the priority list of what makes a compelling photograph, composition, emotion, capturing the decisive moment of the story and the story itself. A few years ago, British street and documentary photographer Simon King had an interesting piece on PetaPixel.

If Sharpness Truly Mattered, Cartier-Bresson Would Be a Joke

While teaching a recent workshop, I joked that street photography was the only genre where people would buy $3,000 worth of cameras and lenses and then

petapixel.com

Sharpness is not an absolute - it is subject specific. For reproducing text or product photography it can be paramount. On a Paris or NYC street not so much. Not all of W. Eugene Smith's images covering WWII in the Pacific are critically sharp and I suspect he didn't care. Nick Ut's "Napalm Girl" was far from critically sharp, but that single image had a significant impact on the US public perception of the war in Vietnam.

On the other hand, would have Ansel Adams landscapes have been so compelling if they were not sharp?

--
"The winds of heaven is i which blows between a horse's ears," Bedouin Proverb
__
Truman
DPR Co-MOD - Fuji X
www.tprevattimages.com

 

[Bill Ferris]

Your photos are lovely and show motion blur and I agree vision is very important. There is another side of this and that's the lack of critical sharpness. A well composed photo with a clear message can work even without critical sharpness, for example this image.

The darkness also contributes to the atmosphere of your image. It asks the questions, where did this come from and what's happening next?

--
Bill Ferris Photography
Flagstaff, AZ

 

[Dem Bell]

Most photos are sharp. Most good photos are sharp. Most sharp photos are not good. There are some good photos that are not sharp.

 

[Morris0]

Your photos are lovely and show motion blur and I agree vision is very important. There is another side of this and that's the lack of critical sharpness. A well composed photo with a clear message can work even without critical sharpness, for example this image.

Morris

Cartier-Bresson famously said, "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." It is not that HCB was not an excellent technical, he felt that sharpness is over rated in the priority list of what makes a compelling photograph, composition, emotion, capturing the decisive moment of the story and the story itself. A few years ago, British street and documentary photographer Simon King had an interesting piece on PetaPixel.

https://petapixel.com/2020/08/01/if-sharpness-truly-mattered-cartier-bresson-would-be-a-joke/

Sharpness is not an absolute - it is subject specific. For reproducing text or product photography it can be paramount. On a Paris or NYC street not so much. Not all of W. Eugene Smith's images covering WWII in the Pacific are critically sharp and I suspect he didn't care. Nick Ut's "Napalm Girl" was far from critically sharp, but that single image had a significant impact on the US public perception of the war in Vietnam.

On the other hand, would have Ansel Adams landscapes have been so compelling if they were not sharp?

I agree and I see sharpness as an artistic tool. I usually like to show the detail of my subjects yet there are times when I wish to so show other things.

I thought you would be out hiking :-}

Morris

 

[Morris0]

Your photos are lovely and show motion blur and I agree vision is very important. There is another side of this and that's the lack of critical sharpness. A well composed photo with a clear message can work even without critical sharpness, for example this image.

The darkness also contributes to the atmosphere of your image. It asks the questions, where did this come from and what's happening next?

Thank you Bill,

I did this to create mood.

Morris

 

[Morris0]

Most photos are sharp. Most good photos are sharp. Most sharp photos are not good. There are some good photos that are not sharp.

This is a nice way of showing the importance of sharpness. Depending on the photographer and the subject, those ovals will overlap very differently.

Morris

 

[Morris0]

One of my faverate photographers and one I've had the pleasure of shooting alongside a few times is Denise Ippolito. She is a fantastic teacher and very artistic yet dose a lot of traditional Nature and Wildlife work. This is one of her landscapes and takes the concept of blur to the extreme.

Blurs and Impressions - denise ippolito

My name is Denise Ippolito I am an award winning, professional photographer and artist living in NJ. I offer workshops featuring avian, flower, landscape and creative photography.

deniseippolito.smugmug.com

Link to her Blurs and Impressions gallery:

Blurs and Impressions - denise ippolito

My name is Denise Ippolito I am an award winning, professional photographer and artist living in NJ. I offer workshops featuring avian, flower, landscape and creative photography.

deniseippolito.smugmug.com

Denise Ippolito's site:

deniseippolito

My name is Denise Ippolito I am an award winning, professional photographer and artist living in NJ. I offer workshops featuring avian, flower, landscape and creative photography.

deniseippolito.smugmug.com

Morris

 

[Yannis1976]

Personally I like to believe that I am not obsessed with sharpness and this could be one of the reasons I enjoy shooting with the 16-80 or the tiny RX1007. On the other hand I do find myself being impressed by very detailed macro, birds or wildlife shots.

So I think, it really depends on the subject. I think for wildlife or macro, sharpness is important, but for street, portraits or even landscape, not so much…

https://flic.kr/p/2rfQEEo

 

[michaeladawson]

Sharpness is needed when sharpness is needed. I really don't need to see examples of "non-sharp" photos to somehow educate me that sharpness is not necessarily needed in every photo.

Of course there will be examples of good photos where nothing is sharp. Color is also a great thing in a photo too. But we all know that sometimes a photo works better in B&W. Sometimes edge and corner sharpness in a lens/photo is not necessary either. Sometimes it is.

If sharpness was a requirement for a good image capture then there would be no use for pinhole cameras/lenses. Lensbaby should just close shop.

There are times when you need/want all the technical detail you can get. Like in a lot of bird photography. Sometimes there is an artistic path that makes for a great photo that may not include sharpness as one of its defining qualities. Even if the subject is birds.

 

[SDPharm]

> Depending on the photographer and the subject, those ovals will overlap very differently.

Amen to that. I think sharpness is generally important in some categories of photography, like wild life, landscape, sports, commercial work, etc.