Scratching my head...

[gordonkim]

Hello folks.

Well my son's hockey season is almost under way and I thought I'd take some photo's at a couple of his exhibition game. I have a D7000 and use 70-200mm VR2 lens.

I use the Aperture mode and leave it wide open at 2.8. Found out the hard way that leaving the auto ISO on seems to screw around with the shutter speed (at least I think it does). Then today, after ensuring the settings were the same as the settings used last year the shutter speed never exceeded 1/200th which isn't fast enough.

The only thing I'm doing differently now is I was trying to use Dynamic 21 vs. auto.

Any suggestions/explanation would be appreciated...

 

[sshoihet]

If you use aperture priority mode, set a min shutter speed and a max ISO, the camera will use the min shutter speed you set up until it gets to the max ISO. Once it can no longer achieve the "correct" exposure with the min shutter speed, it will start to lower it.

If you want to assure it doesn't drop under a certain shutter speed, use manual mode with auto ISO and set the aperture and shutter speed you want. The shot may be underexposed but you will maintain your min shutter speed. You can correct it in post process and have much more latitude if you shoot raw.

What i usually do is set ISO 800 max and fix it in Lightroom later.

Hello folks.

Well my son's hockey season is almost under way and I thought I'd take some photo's at a couple of his exhibition game. I have a D7000 and use 70-200mm VR2 lens.

I use the Aperture mode and leave it wide open at 2.8. Found out the hard way that leaving the auto ISO on seems to screw around with the shutter speed (at least I think it does). Then today, after ensuring the settings were the same as the settings used last year the shutter speed never exceeded 1/200th which isn't fast enough.

The only thing I'm doing differently now is I was trying to use Dynamic 21 vs. auto.

Any suggestions/explanation would be appreciated...

 

[Mako2011]

Hello folks.

Well my son's hockey season is almost under way and I thought I'd take some photo's at a couple of his exhibition game. I have a D7000 and use 70-200mm VR2 lens.

I use the Aperture mode and leave it wide open at 2.8. Found out the hard way that leaving the auto ISO on seems to screw around with the shutter speed (at least I think it does). Then today, after ensuring the settings were the same as the settings used last year the shutter speed never exceeded 1/200th which isn't fast enough.

The only thing I'm doing differently now is I was trying to use Dynamic 21 vs. auto.

OK:
D7000 with 70-200
Aperture priority at f2.8
Shutter speed never exceeds 1/200s
Auto ISO

Questions:
What is your base ISO set to?
What is your max ISO set to?

What is your min shutter speed set to? (this is the one to change if you want the min to be faster)

Are you using a flash? If so, see note at bottom of page 104 in manual

 

[Sener]

Auto ISO may be tricky as it uses the ISO presently set (while the Auto ISO is on) as the minimum ISO.

Also the max ISO setting might be too low to reach the desired shutter speed, as expressed above.

If the environment is dim, underexposing the shots a little, in order to gain shutter speed, would be a good idea since D7000 raw files provide good headrom in PP. You can push their exposure in the PP.

 

[gordonkim]

Thanks for the reply. I did have the auto ISO on for the first game (when I noticed the shutter speed problem) but took it off for the second game. ISO was set to 1600 (lighting stinks in hockey rinks) and exposure comp set to +1. Aperture set to 2.8. Never was a problem last year as the shutter speed would take pics at 1/500 or higher with these settings. The only thing different this time is the dynamic AF - I'm using 21 points rather than 3D or Auto (not sure which one I used last year).

Thanks again.

 

[gordonkim]

Base ISO was set to 100 but maxed at 3200. That said, having it set to auto ISO was a mistake since I will set the ISO at 1600. Using a flash is useless in a hockey rink.

Thanks.

 

[gordonkim]

Auto ISO is set to 3200 but I usually have it set to 1600 when shooting at the rink.

Thanks.

 

[Mako2011]

Base ISO was set to 100 but maxed at 3200. That said, having it set to auto ISO was a mistake since I will set the ISO at 1600.

Setting it to 1600 may also not give you the results your looking for. Use sshoihet suggested manual setup.

Using a flash is useless in a hockey rink.

Didn't ask if flash was useful...asked if it was on to determine if it affected your problem. If you upload an example of the problem shot with full EXIF it will be very easy to determine what lead to the shutter speed.

AF-Area mode would have no affect on your problem. So. another setting is at play.

 

[amooz]

I think either of these will help you in this situation, reduce the amount of camera shake.

Also, for that type of action photography, I suggest F3.2, up to ISO4000, and a minimum shutter speed of 1/320 with spot metering. These are arbitrary, 'gut feelings' based on experience shooting high-energy Bhangra dancers in extremely dimly-lit venues. Remember, if you're doing post processing using Lightroom or something, it's easier to recover shadows then it is to pull down blown-out highlights.

--
"In technology I'm placing all my trust"
http://www.AdamMooz.com

 

[Dennis]

Were the shots underexposed ? (Even if they were, that could be down to metering). If you set the lens wide open and the ISO high, then if the metering system calculated 1/2000s, that's what it calculated. If it meters differently in dynamic AF, then that's another variable you have to accept. (Again, it's only a problem if you're seeing bad results).

Personally, one of the main reasons I switched from Sony to Nikon for this kind of shooting was to get Auto ISO in M mode (with exposure compensation). (Another was to get a sharper, faster-focusing 70-200/2.8).

So I shoot hockey in M mode at f/2.8 and 1/500s with ISO set to Auto. (I set the max to 6400 - no point in setting it low only to boost it later IMO). I can't remember for sure, as it's been half a year, but I think I use matrix metering and +1EV or +2/3EV. Maybe I had better luck with center-weighted, I'll have to play around again (or see if that info is in the exif). I know I rely on center-weighted for school events on stage and dance recitals. But uniform colors vary from white to black, so I think I have better results taking in the whole scene and compensating for the ice.

I also use AF-C with the AEL button set to AF-ON and 9-point AF.

• Dennis

--
Gallery at http://kingofthebeasts.smugmug.com

 

[tarakanchik]

Thanks for the reply. I did have the auto ISO on for the first game (when I noticed the shutter speed problem) but took it off for the second game. ISO was set to 1600 (lighting stinks in hockey rinks) and exposure comp set to +1.

This might be my personal preference/experience, but I wouldn't set EC to + 1. If anything, I would set it a stop or two to underexpose. The underexposure would be minimal and easily fixable in PP. The +1 means that your camera needs a lot more light to achieve the set exposure and thus you will either need a slower shutter speed or higher ISO, both of which will impact your quality.

 

[nfpotter]

Thanks for the reply. I did have the auto ISO on for the first game (when I noticed the shutter speed problem) but took it off for the second game. ISO was set to 1600 (lighting stinks in hockey rinks) and exposure comp set to +1.

This might be my personal preference/experience, but I wouldn't set EC to + 1. If anything, I would set it a stop or two to underexpose. The underexposure would be minimal and easily fixable in PP. The +1 means that your camera needs a lot more light to achieve the set exposure and thus you will either need a slower shutter speed or higher ISO, both of which will impact your quality.

You should never under-expose on purpose.

 

[nfpotter]

Auto ISO may be tricky as it uses the ISO presently set (while the Auto ISO is on) as the minimum ISO.

Also the max ISO setting might be too low to reach the desired shutter speed, as expressed above.

If the environment is dim, underexposing the shots a little, in order to gain shutter speed, would be a good idea since D7000 raw files provide good headrom in PP. You can push their exposure in the PP.

You should never under-expose on purpose.

 

[gordonkim]

Thanks. Will give this try.

 

[nfpotter]

Were the shots underexposed ? (Even if they were, that could be down to metering). If you set the lens wide open and the ISO high, then if the metering system calculated 1/2000s, that's what it calculated. If it meters differently in dynamic AF, then that's another variable you have to accept. (Again, it's only a problem if you're seeing bad results).

Personally, one of the main reasons I switched from Sony to Nikon for this kind of shooting was to get Auto ISO in M mode (with exposure compensation). (Another was to get a sharper, faster-focusing 70-200/2.8).

So I shoot hockey in M mode at f/2.8 and 1/500s with ISO set to Auto. (I set the max to 6400 - no point in setting it low only to boost it later IMO). I can't remember for sure, as it's been half a year, but I think I use matrix metering and +1EV or +2/3EV. Maybe I had better luck with center-weighted, I'll have to play around again (or see if that info is in the exif). I know I rely on center-weighted for school events on stage and dance recitals. But uniform colors vary from white to black, so I think I have better results taking in the whole scene and compensating for the ice.

I also use AF-C with the AEL button set to AF-ON and 9-point AF.

• Dennis

--
Gallery at http://kingofthebeasts.smugmug.com

I don't know about EC compensation stuff here, but +1 to shooting M mode with Auto-ISO on. I shoot that way for about 80-90% of everything I shoot now, in fact.

 

[gordonkim]

Dennis,

Just wondering how difficult you find shooting hockey with the AF-ON button in the back given the speed and pace of the sport?

Were the shots underexposed ? (Even if they were, that could be down to metering). If you set the lens wide open and the ISO high, then if the metering system calculated 1/2000s, that's what it calculated. If it meters differently in dynamic AF, then that's another variable you have to accept. (Again, it's only a problem if you're seeing bad results).

Personally, one of the main reasons I switched from Sony to Nikon for this kind of shooting was to get Auto ISO in M mode (with exposure compensation). (Another was to get a sharper, faster-focusing 70-200/2.8).

So I shoot hockey in M mode at f/2.8 and 1/500s with ISO set to Auto. (I set the max to 6400 - no point in setting it low only to boost it later IMO). I can't remember for sure, as it's been half a year, but I think I use matrix metering and +1EV or +2/3EV. Maybe I had better luck with center-weighted, I'll have to play around again (or see if that info is in the exif). I know I rely on center-weighted for school events on stage and dance recitals. But uniform colors vary from white to black, so I think I have better results taking in the whole scene and compensating for the ice.

I also use AF-C with the AEL button set to AF-ON and 9-point AF.

• Dennis

--
Gallery at http://kingofthebeasts.smugmug.com

 

[Dennis]

Dennis,

Just wondering how difficult you find shooting hockey with the AF-ON button in the back given the speed and pace of the sport?

It took a short time to get used to it (I'd half-press the shutter release and wonder why it wasn't focusing !) After that, it's great. I have AF-C whenever I want it by holding the button (then press the shutter when ready - you have to remember to half-press early enough to let VR kick in but since I'm at 1/500s I shut VR off anyway). So I follow my daughter with my thumb pressing the button to track her then fire away. The 70-200/2.8 does a great job even if she's skating straight toward me (I shoot at practices from the players bench). Yesterday I was at a local town fair and using the 35/1.8 to shoot her and a friend on amusement park rides and the same method worked well for tracking a fast moving ride. My disclaimer is that I'm not shooting actual hockey games and the kids at age 9 aren't as fast as older kids & adults (but still surprisingly fast !) My daughter is in "hockey development" where they spend part of their time practicing and part playing a scrimmage. Still, I believe this "back button focus" is commonly used among sports photographers using either Nikon or Canon. The nice thing is I never need to switch from AF-C to AF-S. If I'm shooting a static subject, I just press the back button to achieve focus, then let it go. Focus is locked and I shoot when ready.

My only minor gripe is that the AEL/AFL button used for AF-ON is a bit of a stretch for my thumb. My previous camera was a Sony A700 which had an AF/MF toggle on the back that was located in a better spot. I believe the D300 (which I've never tried) has both an AEL and an AF button and maybe that button is better placed ? Again, it just took a little getting used to, but I wouldn't switch back.

• Dennis

--
Gallery at http://kingofthebeasts.smugmug.com

 

[Dennis]

I don't know about EC compensation stuff here, but +1 to shooting M mode with Auto-ISO on. I shoot that way for about 80-90% of everything I shoot now, in fact.

My intent was to have this feature for hockey and dance recitals - things where I want to shoot a lot of photos with fixed exposure settings (but varying ISO to compensate for changing lighting). But the more I thought about the concept of setting A/S to put as much light on the sensor as possible, the more I realized that this is a great way to shoot anything where I'm above base ISO. (I suppose it could be used for base ISO, too, but then you're adjusting one of your settings to avoid overexposure and at that point, A or S seems more intuitive to me).

• Dennis

--
Gallery at http://kingofthebeasts.smugmug.com

 

[Mako2011]

Dennis,

Just wondering how difficult you find shooting hockey with the AF-ON button in the back given the speed and pace of the sport?

It took a short time to get used to it (I'd half-press the shutter release and wonder why it wasn't focusing !) After that, it's great. I have AF-C whenever I want it by holding the button (then press the shutter when ready - you have to remember to half-press early enough to let VR kick in but since I'm at 1/500s I shut VR off anyway).

Yes, VR is not activated with the AE-L/AF-L button when using AF-ON (back button) focus on the D7000. So no, you do not see the image stabilizing in the view finder until you half press the shutter release button. BUT, VR still stabilizes the actual exposure when you take the picture with AF-ON because to take the picture you have to still press the shutter release button . Doing that starts Exposure Mode VR as the mirror rises even though Pres-Exposure mode VR never really came into effect as you never really paused at half press. The VR that causes camera shake to be diminished during exposure is activated by pressing the shutter release regardless is OF-ON is used or not. If the lens VR switch is on...you can't stop VR from affecting the picture when you press the shutter release. The VR step at half causes a stabilized image in the view finder but has no relation to the VR process being applied during the actual exposure. Hope that's clear. My wording can always use some work.

Here is a representative sample taken from a test set

100% crops of my 105mm F2.8 at 1/125s. Taken using AF-ON (back-Button) focus method. Picture focused with finger off the shutter release button then exposure taken with a fast press of shutter release with no pause at half press. As you can see, VR is still very effective using AF-ON. Hope this helps to better explain my post

 

[nfpotter]

Dennis,

Just wondering how difficult you find shooting hockey with the AF-ON button in the back given the speed and pace of the sport?

It took a short time to get used to it (I'd half-press the shutter release and wonder why it wasn't focusing !) After that, it's great. I have AF-C whenever I want it by holding the button (then press the shutter when ready - you have to remember to half-press early enough to let VR kick in but since I'm at 1/500s I shut VR off anyway). So I follow my daughter with my thumb pressing the button to track her then fire away. The 70-200/2.8 does a great job even if she's skating straight toward me (I shoot at practices from the players bench). Yesterday I was at a local town fair and using the 35/1.8 to shoot her and a friend on amusement park rides and the same method worked well for tracking a fast moving ride. My disclaimer is that I'm not shooting actual hockey games and the kids at age 9 aren't as fast as older kids & adults (but still surprisingly fast !) My daughter is in "hockey development" where they spend part of their time practicing and part playing a scrimmage. Still, I believe this "back button focus" is commonly used among sports photographers using either Nikon or Canon. The nice thing is I never need to switch from AF-C to AF-S. If I'm shooting a static subject, I just press the back button to achieve focus, then let it go. Focus is locked and I shoot when ready.

My only minor gripe is that the AEL/AFL button used for AF-ON is a bit of a stretch for my thumb. My previous camera was a Sony A700 which had an AF/MF toggle on the back that was located in a better spot. I believe the D300 (which I've never tried) has both an AEL and an AF button and maybe that button is better placed ? Again, it just took a little getting used to, but I wouldn't switch back.

• Dennis

--
Gallery at http://kingofthebeasts.smugmug.com

Yes, it's in a MUCH better place on the D300 (and higher models). I do use it sometimes on my D300, but I almost never shoot that camera anymore. That's the main reason I don't use AF-ON with my D7K - it makes my grip weaker and uncomfortable. I also wish Nikon would fix the firmware so that AF-ON triggered VR, like it does on the newer D800 and D4. Helps a lot when trying to obtain intial focus, hand-held with long lenses like my Bigma.