Rambling post about a new pc build...basically what mobo?

[philmar]

Considering a new build for a photo editing only ATX.

My 11 year old i7 3700K build was masterful and while overkill at the time it still serves me well. I spent the time to understand the needs of a photo editing rig and the components that were available then but things have changed. I only process one raw photo at a time, no large event photography batches, no video and no gaming. For years I have been using the ASUS bios auto-overclock feature in my ASUS P8Z77 mobo and that has helped me get more performance from the build. I was even able to survive with only the onboard graphics until I purchased a second 1440p monitor. However I am noticing that it is now slowing me down in Lightroom when I make use of the newer adjustment mask features...and also when I occasionally use Topaz Suite. I have recently retired so I have plenty of free time now to monetizing my hobby. I post on Facebook neighborhood groups and get weekly requests for prints from neighbors. I am going to buy a printer soon and also create photo books so I think the whole experience will be better on a snappier machine. My budget will be up to US$2250 though I could get a Z760 set up much cheaper ....I have to purchase my components in inflated CDN dollars though.

I definitely will go with a i7 13700K though a i5 is probably the sweet spot. I have the funds to buy a better CPU and if this rig can last a decade like the last one it will be wise to go with the more powerful one. I have been agonizing for weeks over a costlier Z790 mobo with DDR4 vs. a cheaper Z690 mobo with DDR4. Seems like the builds would have no perceptible difference in performance (according to my usage) so why throw money away for nothing with a Z790 set up? However I think that a Z790 might be a good choice as it would be more future proof. Who knows what improvements there will be to DDR5 RAM? I will buy a K version of the i713700 as I will overclock but only conservatively using the mobo autoclock software.

Most of the online mobo reviews seem to be from a gamer's perspective where mobos are valued on their overclockability (VRM and heatsink arrays). The few mobo reviews that I read from the perspective of image editing judge mobos based on ability to edit massive video files, or networking features or i/o connectivity to upload massive batches of wedding photos/videos. I don't want to pay for Thunderbolt, 10gb ethernet or even WIFI.

I plan to use two new SSDs and a new 8-12GB HDD spinner as well as include HDD data drives from my current build: My Cdrive which is a Samsung 840 pro SATA 600, a Samsung 850 pro SATA 600 drive that I use as Lightroom catalogue/scratch drive and also 2 SATA HDD spinners with data. So my mobo will need to support ALL of those.

Any thoughts and advice?

And if it only drives two 1440p monitors do I really need a GPU for my usage (no video processing, gaming)? If so, is my Radeon RX 460 of any value?

 

[BobKnDP]

If you go with a DDR4 MB, then the future of DDR5 is irrelevant, as you'd need a new MB to use it. They are completely incompatible. (I'd hope that you know that already, but one remark suggests otherwise.) That's ignoring possible oddities like MBs that have both DDR4 and DDR5 slots, if any such exist. (I know of none. I used to see board that had DDR3 and DDR4 slots, that didn't allow memory types to be mixed.)

If you go with high frequency DDR5, you may only get full performance if you use a single pair. (Some high-end gaming MBs have only two DDR5 DIMM slots, to force that.) DDR4 can also have similar problems: RAM rated with two sticks may not be stable with 4. (That's not a tragedy; you'd just have to back of the frequency and/or timings.)

You need a MB that supports at least 5 SATA drives? That may eliminate some of the less expensive models. (I presume that you don't want to use a SATA adapter add-on card.)

A caveat: if you buy a MB with a PCI-E 5.0 NVME SSD slot, the board will switch the graphics card PCI-E slot to 8 lanes if that M.2 slot is used, regardless of the PCI-E generation of the M.2 drive. (There are no Gen5 M.2 drives available in the US yet.) You could avoid that by buying a MB where the M.2 slot that is driven by the CPU is Gen4 only. (That is not at all important for most of us, but if you are at all compulsive...)

A Radeon RX 460 is a 2GB card, so I doubt that it'd be very useful with the Topaz suite just for that reason. I haven't checked to see whether it supports the graphics instructions Topaz requires.

Here's what Newegg Canada offers for DDR4 MBs with at least 5 SATA ports:

Shipped by Newegg,LGA 1700,New,6 x SATA 6Gb/s,7 x SATA 6Gb/s,5 x SATA 6Gb/s,DDR4 Intel Motherboards | Newegg.ca

You get more choices with DDR5:

Shipped by Newegg,LGA 1700,New,6 x SATA 6Gb/s,7 x SATA 6Gb/s,5 x SATA 6Gb/s,DDR5 Intel Motherboards | Newegg.ca

I've mostly preferred Asus boards (for their BIOS setup interface). Some claim that their products are junk, but I've had no issues so far. Asrock wasn't bad. MSI was what I'd call unintuitive.

 

[philmar]

OH CRAP.

Thanks for your response. I see now that I made a small but SIGNIFICANT typo in my original post that makes it sound incoherent.

It should have said:

"I have been agonizing for weeks over a costlier Z790 mobo with DDR5 vs. a cheaper Z690 mobo with DDR4"

I can't edit it though. So I AM interested in a Z790 mobo with DDR5 if itmakes sense.

-

-----------------
Phil M. - Toronto, Canada
Time to kill? Then have a look at a few of my photos: https://www.flickr.com/photos/phil_marion/albums
You will NOT be disappointed.

 

[BobKnDP]

OH CRAP.

Thanks for your response. I see now that I made a small but SIGNIFICANT typo in my original post that makes it sound incoherent.

It should have said:

"I have been agonizing for weeks over a costlier Z790 mobo with DDR5 vs. a cheaper Z690 mobo with DDR4"

I can't edit it though. So I AM interested in a Z790 mobo with DDR5 if itmakes sense.

-

Yeah. The forum doesn't permit editing a post that has a reply.

You could also consider a Z690 board with DDR5, or a Z790 board with DDR4.

Looking at prices, it looks like there's not much advantage in picking a Z690 over a Z790 at this time.

If you're trying to reduce costs, you could save a few dollars by choosing a chipset other than Z790. (I wouldn't. The price difference is too small, for a home builder. I think of them as for commercial builder, for whom an extra $40 profit isn't trivial.)

I also don't use microATX. Or ITX.

As regards a graphics card, get at least an RTX 3060 (the 12GB version) or RTX 3060 ti (8GB). You won't regret that, if you'd like good performance in Topaz or DXO Photolab. You may regret it if nVidia releases an RTX 4060 at a similar price, any time soon.

There - I've displayed my biases.

 

[philmar]

If you go with a DDR4 MB, then the future of DDR5 is irrelevant, as you'd need a new MB to use it. They are completely incompatible. (I'd hope that you know that already, but one remark suggests otherwise.) That's ignoring possible oddities like MBs that have both DDR4 and DDR5 slots, if any such exist. (I know of none. I used to see board that had DDR3 and DDR4 slots, that didn't allow memory types to be mixed.)

Yes I know that....it was a typo on my part...a rather big one. I AM considering DDR5 on the newer Z970 chipset.

So sorry for that.

If you go with high frequency DDR5, you may only get full performance if you use a single pair. (Some high-end gaming MBs have only two DDR5 DIMM slots, to force that.) DDR4 can also have similar problems: RAM rated with two sticks may not be stable with 4. (That's not a tragedy; you'd just have to back of the frequency and/or timings.)

You need a MB that supports at least 5 SATA drives? That may eliminate some of the less expensive models. (I presume that you don't want to use a SATA adapter add-on card.)

I guess I can get by with 4 SATA drive slots. 2 for my current SATA HDDs, one for one of my current SATA SSD OS drive which I can use as a scratch drive and Lightroom catalogue, and the 4th for a new large SATA HDD for storage. I have a lot of RAW files. I could put the LR catalogue on a new m2 SSD and only require 3 SATA slots but that increases the cost by that of the new M2 SSD

A caveat: if you buy a MB with a PCI-E 5.0 NVME SSD slot, the board will switch the graphics card PCI-E slot to 8 lanes if that M.2 slot is used, regardless of the PCI-E generation of the M.2 drive. (There are no Gen5 M.2 drives available in the US yet.) You could avoid that by buying a MB where the M.2 slot that is driven by the CPU is Gen4 only. (That is not at all important for most of us, but if you are at all compulsive...)

I will endeavor to understand this hopefully.

A Radeon RX 460 is a 2GB card, so I doubt that it'd be very useful with the Topaz suite just for that reason. I haven't checked to see whether it supports the graphics instructions Topaz requires.

I was hoping the i7 13700K graphics would be better than my current RX460.

Here's what Newegg Canada offers for DDR4 MBs with at least 5 SATA ports:

Shipped by Newegg,LGA 1700,New,6 x SATA 6Gb/s,7 x SATA 6Gb/s,5 x SATA 6Gb/s,DDR4 Intel Motherboards | Newegg.ca

You get more choices with DDR5:

Shipped by Newegg,LGA 1700,New,6 x SATA 6Gb/s,7 x SATA 6Gb/s,5 x SATA 6Gb/s,DDR5 Intel Motherboards | Newegg.ca

I've mostly preferred Asus boards (for their BIOS setup interface). Some claim that their products are junk, but I've had no issues so far. Asrock wasn't bad. MSI was what I'd call unintuitive.

I tend to be looking at ASUS and Gigabyte. My original thought was the ASUS Prime but am confused what difference there is between the A and P versions (I won't want Wifi)...and of course I waffle and stupidly lust over an ASUS ProArt rationalising that I can easily afford it and if my photography will start earning income and if I mortise the cost over 8 years it is nothing.

But I guess I need to understand first if there is a compelling reason to go with Z790 +DDR5 vs. Z690 + DDR4 considering I don't game or process video. I can afford both but there is no reason to spend needlessly when I could us the savings for on a printer.

 

[philmar]

Yeah. The forum doesn't permit editing a post that has a reply.

So it is YOUR fault then that I can't edit - LOL. Just joking. Am so appreciative of your help!

 

[BobKnDP]

The -P and -A Asus boards are from different families (-A is RoG Strix, -P is Prime). The Prime boards are low-end, the Strix medium. I don't recall the feature differences. I believe that as you go up in series the VRMs get more robust, but that may not make the least difference to a user who doesn't overclock.

If the RX 460 supports the graphics instructions needed for the Topaz suite, it may still outperform the UHD 770 graphics of the I7-13700K. (I'm referring to GPU acceleration, only.) For some video processing, the Intel iGPU would support some codecs that no nVidia or AMD GPU currently does.

If you search the forum, you may find a lot of discussion about using iGPUs for software acceleration. I haven't done any experimentation, but I come away with the idea that it's mostly wishful thinking. (Disclaimer: I'm a PC enthusiast with an nVidia RTX 4090. Not recommended.)

 

[philmar]

The -P and -A Asus boards are from different families (-A is RoG Strix, -P is Prime). The Prime boards are low-end, the Strix medium. I don't recall the feature differences. I believe that as you go up in series the VRMs get more robust, but that may not make the least difference to a user who doesn't overclock.

Prime comes in -A and -P versions with or without WiFi and with DDR5 or DDR4(the D4 version)

Loading…

www.newegg.ca

 

[BobKnDP]

The -P and -A Asus boards are from different families (-A is RoG Strix, -P is Prime). The Prime boards are low-end, the Strix medium. I don't recall the feature differences. I believe that as you go up in series the VRMs get more robust, but that may not make the least difference to a user who doesn't overclock.

Prime comes in -A and -P versions with or without WiFi and with DDR5 or DDR4(the D4 version)

https://www.newegg.ca/Product/Productcompare?CompareItemList=13-119-601,13-119-603

Aargh. My apologies.

 

[philmar]

I first gravitated towards the Prime but then started reading less than favorable reviews especially over the VRMs - but have since realised that these are reviews by people that want to extreme overclock

--
-----------------
Phil M. - Toronto, Canada
Time to kill? Then have a look at a few of my photos: https://www.flickr.com/photos/phil_marion/albums
You will NOT be disappointed.

 

[BobKnDP]

I first gravitated towards the Prime but then started reading less than favorable reviews especially over the VRMs - but have since realised that these are reviews by people that want to extreme overclock

I've wondered about that, too. I expect that a Prime would be able to run an I7-13700K at its Intel specs without issue, but I can't defend that.

One review I read months ago rated MBs by their VRM specs, but did no actual testing of overclocking.

One detail I neglected to mention: if you acquire a Z690 board, it will require a fairly up-to-date firmware version to boot from a Gen13 CPU. Some boards can update the firmware without a CPU installed ("flashback" button), but I think the Asus Primes lack that feature. You generally can't count on any particular firmware version for a MB purchased as new stock.

If you buy a Z790 board, it's not an issue. Any of those will come with a BIOS that'll boot with an I7-13700K.

Let me spend your money for you. Asus RoG Strix Z790 -E or -F, DDR5 RAM. (The former with a Gen5 M.2 slot, the latter with Gen4 plus 16 PCI-E lanes for the graphics slot.) Get the fastest 64GB RAM pair that the Asus QVL (qualified vendors list) offers for the board.

(The RoG Strix line is Asus' midrange. Maybe that's not the Goldilocks point, but it's not insanely expensive gamer gear either.)

 

[philmar]

I first gravitated towards the Prime but then started reading less than favorable reviews especially over the VRMs - but have since realised that these are reviews by people that want to extreme overclock

I've wondered about that, too. I expect that a Prime would be able to run an I7-13700K at its Intel specs without issue, but I can't defend that.

Reviews I've read say it does run it well at stock but the VRMs are the the best nor the heat sinks for aggressive OCing - but that doesn't apply to me.

One review I read months ago rated MBs by their VRM specs, but did no actual testing of overclocking.

I've been looking for a ranked list of different Z790 mobos tested for CPU performance (geekbench 5 or cinebench R23) for single core.

One detail I neglected to mention: if you acquire a Z690 board, it will require a fairly up-to-date firmware version to boot from a Gen13 CPU. Some boards can update the firmware without a CPU installed ("flashback" button), but I think the Asus Primes lack that feature. You generally can't count on any particular firmware version for a MB purchased as new stock.

If you buy a Z790 board, it's not an issue. Any of those will come with a BIOS that'll boot with an I7-13700K.

Let me spend your money for you. Asus RoG Strix Z790 -E or -F, DDR5 RAM. (The former with a Gen5 M.2 slot, the latter with Gen4 plus 16 PCI-E lanes for the graphics slot.) Get the fastest 64GB RAM pair that the Asus QVL (qualified vendors list) offers for the board.

(The RoG Strix line is Asus' midrange. Maybe that's not the Goldilocks point, but it's not insanely expensive gamer gear either.)

SOLD!!

In the last hour I received an order for 9 prints and now have a pile more money to spend than I originally was comfortable with (I use my photography sales to fund my hobby). So I am taking that as a sign to plow money in to the best rig I can afford without buying overkill (no ProArt). It's what i did 11 years ago and I have had no regrets.

You're right. The Z690s require a BIOS upgrade with the 13 gens and some like the Primes would require a 12th gen CPU in order to do it (so I've read) .

I will look at the TUF Gaming and RoG Strix - and probably foolishly lust after the ProArt as I dither between the other two. But now I no longer have to complicate the issue with DDR4 and the Z690 chipset. Analysis paralysis is subsiding. You have been extremely beneficial and helpful. I suspect i will have more questions when I try to decide what storage to use. Not sure of the value of porting over my current storage devices. I'm hoping that might make the transfer of Windows and Lightroom catalogue easier - but that will wait until I have the mobo selected. I know I will want W11 on the new rig as this supports the CPU and RAM better than my current W10.

So happy I was able to unclutter my mind. You've been excellent and a fantastic help.

 

[bmoag]

Any mid level DDR5 motherboard is more than adequate for what you will be doing. Forget DDR4 with that CPU.

All Intel CPUs are already overclocked, the K parts are "binned" so they can be set to run at a higher base clock. There is almost no room to eke out a few percent higher clocks without elaborate cooling and system instability. This is well documented. That is why it is pointless to invest too much in a motherboard with "build quality" you will never need or use.

At a given price point there is little to distinguish between the major mobo manufacturers and, if you look at objective tests, there is nothing to distinguish measured throughput of the CPU regardless of motherboard price for the same chipset.

I think some confusion about VRMs and the like is that Intel motherboards tend to have the bios set so that CPU power consumption is unlimited. It behooves one to check into appropriate settings for one's real world use case.

Because that Intel part is a power eating beast so do not skimp on at least a 240mm AIO and 850 watt gold rated PSU. I would put more money into those than a higher sku motherboard. The higher end Intel parts can throttle both because of heat and not getting the instantaneous juice they need. Look for a PSU with the Intel ATX 3.0 spec.

Match the motherboard to the case. Intel motherboards tend to have all needed USB headers, you still need to check. Specifically look for USB C headers and its nice to have optical sound output.

DDR 5 clock speeds and CAS numbers on Intel are really not that significant for the stated use case but 32gb DDR5 6000 kits are now regularly on sale for around $140.

 

[BobKnDP]

A minor (?) warning.

The maximum DDR5 specified frequency for the I7-13700K is 5600MHz.

If you run it with faster RAM, Intel regards that as overclocking. If the CPU should fail (unlikely), they will deny the warranty if you admit to the faster RAM.

I know that from a bitter personal experience. (Damaged MB fried a CPU. I'm pretty confident that I wasn't he one who bent the LGA pins in the socket, but I didn't check the board before using it.)

I regard myself as an ethical person, but if I had to deal with an Intel warranty in the future, I might be less forthcoming.

 

[BobKnDP]

I blush.

I only hope that you still feel that way after getting the new system.

Another caveat: my RoG Strix Z690-E has 6 SATA ports. The Z790-E has only 4.

You'd need to go with a ProArt Z790 to get more (8 total).

I guess we're all supposed to be moving to M.2 drives.

 

[Craig Gillette]

I'll dive in. Retired with some time on my hands. Not going to try to monetize my fun.

Considering a new build for a photo editing only ATX.

My 11 year old i7 3700K build was masterful and while overkill at the time it still serves me well. I spent the time to understand the needs of a photo editing rig and the components that were available then but things have changed. I only process one raw photo at a time, no large event photography batches, no video and no gaming. For years I have been using the ASUS bios auto-overclock feature in my ASUS P8Z77 mobo and that has helped me get more performance from the build. I was even able to survive with only the onboard graphics until I purchased a second 1440p monitor. However I am noticing that it is now slowing me down in Lightroom when I make use of the newer adjustment mask features...and also when I occasionally use Topaz Suite. I have recently retired so I have plenty of free time now to monetizing my hobby. I post on Facebook neighborhood groups and get weekly requests for prints from neighbors. I am going to buy a printer soon and also create photo books so I think the whole experience will be better on a snappier machine. My budget will be up to US$2250 though I could get a Z760 set up much cheaper ....I have to purchase my components in inflated CDN dollars though.

I had a decidely unsnappy machine and even just low volume, onesie-twosies, the recent replacement is quite satisfying. Saw the typo comments below.

I went with an on-line builder as opposed to collecting components and assembling myself. It seemed pretty competitive to rough estimates I made looking to components gathering and I haven't put one together, just added drives or cards, etc., in the past.

I was buying in the pre-Black Friday Black Friday Sales time frame. There have been some availability issues. Some of the selections that were there when I started looking have been dropped or they note delivery delays, etc. I think mostly with motherboard choices. I haven't done any overclocking. Thinking about XMP as I have faster RAM.

One place I found it easy to save money was on "storage." Their first, C drive, prices seemed reasonable. But adding drives, they weren't competitive with Amazon, Newegg or some local sources. I figured get the base drive I wanted, let them get it assembled, up and running with the windows version I wanted and then I added storage drives, one M.2 NVME and an external that I bought separately.

I definitely will go with a i7 13700K though a i5 is probably the sweet spot. I have the funds to buy a better CPU and if this rig can last a decade like the last one it will be wise to go with the more powerful one. I have been agonizing for weeks over a costlier Z790 mobo with DDR4 vs. a cheaper Z690 mobo with DDR4. Seems like the builds would have no perceptible difference in performance (according to my usage) so why throw money away for nothing with a Z790 set up? However I think that a Z790 might be a good choice as it would be more future proof. Who knows what improvements there will be to DDR5 RAM? I will buy a K version of the i713700 as I will overclock but only conservatively using the mobo autoclock software.

Although I doubt I'll want an upgrade anytime soon; I did consider some future accommodations. (That said, generally speaking, if doing images one at a time, the differences on some of these upgrades may well not show up.)

I went with an I7 13700K and 3060ti. Some of these builders are directed towards gaming so they offer a CPU version that was suited to overclocking but didn't have an iGPU as their base, figuring gamers will likely be using a graphics card and overclocking anyways. Just something to watch when selecting.

I went with a Z790 and DDR5 and PCIe Gen 5 compatibility. Not much Gen 5 gear here yet. See below. Using two M.2 socket NVME ssds and an external spinner so far. I haven't "scrapped" my old PC, still use it for browsing, supporting my activities using Office programs, etc., so haven't moved everything over.

Most of the online mobo reviews seem to be from a gamer's perspective where mobos are valued on their overclockability (VRM and heatsink arrays). The few mobo reviews that I read from the perspective of image editing judge mobos based on ability to edit massive video files, or networking features or i/o connectivity to upload massive batches of wedding photos/videos. I don't want to pay for Thunderbolt, 10gb ethernet or even WIFI.

I went for Thunderbolt capability as I have a laptop with it so could share accessories, etc. When they eventually come along. Most all the motherboards have integrated Wifi, ethernet and some audio. Even if not to the rear panel, keep an eye on available headers, too. Some of the boards have limited "extra" PCIe slots so adding capabilities by adding cards could be troublesome down the road. Gen 5 note below.

I plan to use two new SSDs and a new 8-12GB HDD spinner as well as include HDD data drives from my current build: My Cdrive which is a Samsung 840 pro SATA 600, a Samsung 850 pro SATA 600 drive that I use as Lightroom catalogue/scratch drive and also 2 SATA HDD spinners with data. So my mobo will need to support ALL of those.

Gen 5 comment below.

Any thoughts and advice?

And if it only drives two 1440p monitors do I really need a GPU for my usage (no video processing, gaming)? If so, is my Radeon RX 460 of any value?

I'm not up to speed on all the intricacies of which software "needs" an iGPU, which goes best with GPU cards, etc. I have a CPU with integrated GPU and a decent graphics card. I'm driving two monitors, one a 4K as I also watch streaming video on it at times.

PCIe Gen 5. I think the big push for that will come with a new generation processor and chip set -and their motherboards. Until then as mentioned separately in the thread, PCIe Gen 5 brings with it some potential big speed possibilities. I got a board which supports it "just in case." But as with many of these newer features, I may not work in the kind of volume or speed that I take actual advantage of the capabilities.

The 13th Gen Intel cpu and chip set support a limited number of "lanes" or data paths that work at PCIe Gen 5 speeds. So, as mentioned elsewhere (notwithstanding that there aren't Gen 5 devices available yet), the boards have a Gen 5 slot or two, or maybe one or two Gen 5 M.2 sockets, they have to share the limited lanes. When you occupy those slots/sockets, even with Gen 4 devices, it can force a downgrade or disabling of other slots/sockets.

Different makers/motherboards approach this in somewhat different ways. I went with an ASrock board, partly for Thunderbolt and partly because some of my other choices were unavailable. Along with adjusting the Gen 5 slots/sockets, while it supports 8 SATA 3 connections it will disable 4 if the PCIe Gen 4 slot is occupied.

Other than a sticking stand-off and a dropped M.2 screw (get more unless your board has fancier screwless sockets, etc.), it's been fine.

 

[LynniePad]

Considering a new build for a photo editing only ATX.

I plan to use two new SSDs and a new 8-12GB HDD spinner as well as include HDD data drives from my current build: My Cdrive which is a Samsung 840 pro SATA 600, a Samsung 850 pro SATA 600 drive that I use as Lightroom catalogue/scratch drive and also 2 SATA HDD spinners with data. So my mobo will need to support ALL of those.

Any thoughts and advice?

That makes 7 drives all up, if I’m not mistaken.

Apart from mobo considerations, you’ll need a decent power supply, and a large enough case with good cooling. Any chance that you can replace some of those drives with larger ones to reduce the count somewhat? Some of your existing drives are probably a bit long in the tooth anyway.

Possibly not relevant to your situation, but there’s only one “spinner” amongst my four computers, apart from several external backup HDDs. I’ll be replacing the remaining HDD next time I see a good deal on a Samsung SSD.

BTW, do you use Samsung “Magician” to tune up your SSDs for optimum performance?

Good luck with the build.

 

[BobKnDP]

I presumed that the "two new SSDs" were NVME M.2 types.

If they are 2.5" SATA drives, that'd change the SATA requirements for the motherboard.

 

[Craig Gillette]

Or externals on some version of usb? Or fast ethernet? Yikes.

 

[Craig Gillette]

It must be interesting around Intel at times. The warranty admin types don't want to pay when someone lets the smoke out of a CPU but the tech (and sales??) side provides plenty of info on how to go about over-clocking. Kind of like the "fine print" on car ads. Look what you can do with the new CrossmobileInterceptor4x4! (Fine print: Professional drivers in controlled situation with optional equipment. Don't try this at home!)