R7 no flash onboard pop up what the heck ?

[DBenz01]

Hi,

I use a 70D and its lovely, but in low light I struggle, so setting my heart on an R7 having seen someone photographing hand held as I do, my specialist subject area, competition quality scale models in existing light and the worlds best/biggest show, best for seeing true paintwork and build quality with no flash burnout etc, and he was on 100,000 asa, f22 and so on, ideal but beyond a 70D as I had there. Amazed he showed me a photo on rear screen and no grain and no camera shake.

Envious or what !!! since then I want one.

In my other line of work I am forever in low light environments called museums photographing items and needing higher shutter speeds and apertures for depth of field given focal lengths I use and my need for no noise in images as photogrammetry relies on detail matching between 60% overlapping photos for functionality but not artificial dots (grain/noise) that change in location between shots ! The R7 is my need here.

I need to put light into areas at times and a pop up flash does that.

I have just been knocked down by reading the review and the R7 has NO POP UP FLASH.

What the F, 100 yrs of photography and the portable there when you need it pop up has been nuked. Clearly not designed by a photographer, So how does one get light into small areas on engineering items ? I am often travelling light, no bag with flashguns etc, and a 580EX is too much above lens to do that.

I have just been dealt a body blow, resigned to struggling with the 70D and 800asa and noise forever, ir what is the solution, and my longed for R7 is lost to me.

What %$£& at Canon went and did that ?

Also the joystick sounds a bit 'off' as well. We need users designing these things.

DBenz

 

[JohnnyFair]

I do think you'd enjoy the improvements that come with an R7, which I love, but I'd recommend another solution. If you decide that the R7 is ideal for you then you can purchase a small used flash affordably. Example, Canon 90ex for about $40. Or, Canon 220ex or 270ex for not much more. They are very small and lightweight.

Since you work in low light situations I'd recommend a Canon R6 or R6II, depending on your budget. Used gear can provide good savings. The high ISO image quality with the R6, coupled with the IBIS like the R7 will give great image quality up to 6400 ISO and you might not even need the flash. Check out some sample images from the R6 and R7 at higher ISO and it might help you decide.

Lens choices might be important for you since you use the 70D, and you might love your current lenses, or prefer not to spend for more. It sounds to me that one good quality lens like a 35, 50, or 85/100 might work fine for you. You can use your EF and EF-S lenses with an adapter on the R7 and R6, and they work perfectly. If you use an EF-S lens on the R6 you will only have about 8mp size file but that works fine for many purposes.

Good luck with your decision. I do think you'd love working with either the R6 or R7.

 

[drsnoopy]

Hi,

I use a 70D and its lovely, but in low light I struggle, so setting my heart on an R7 having seen someone photographing hand held as I do, my specialist subject area, competition quality scale models in existing light and the worlds best/biggest show, best for seeing true paintwork and build quality with no flash burnout etc, and he was on 100,000 asa, f22 and so on, ideal but beyond a 70D as I had there. Amazed he showed me a photo on rear screen and no grain and no camera shake.

Envious or what !!! since then I want one.

In my other line of work I am forever in low light environments called museums photographing items and needing higher shutter speeds and apertures for depth of field given focal lengths I use and my need for no noise in images as photogrammetry relies on detail matching between 60% overlapping photos for functionality but not artificial dots (grain/noise) that change in location between shots ! The R7 is my need here.

I need to put light into areas at times and a pop up flash does that.

I have just been knocked down by reading the review and the R7 has NO POP UP FLASH.

What the F, 100 yrs of photography and the portable there when you need it pop up has been nuked. Clearly not designed by a photographer, So how does one get light into small areas on engineering items ? I am often travelling light, no bag with flashguns etc, and a 580EX is too much above lens to do that.

I have just been dealt a body blow, resigned to struggling with the 70D and 800asa and noise forever, ir what is the solution, and my longed for R7 is lost to me.

What %$£& at Canon went and did that ?

Also the joystick sounds a bit 'off' as well. We need users designing these things.

DBenz

The R7 is not a magical answer to all your requirements. The settings you quote sound unrealistic.

The R10 has a pop-up flash and is very good with 24MP. Alternatively there are many very small flashguns available such as 90EX, 270EX, Godox 300 and others.

You could consider the 90D (dSLR) - same sensor as R7 but with a pop up flash

It’s no secret the R7 lacks a flash. In my view it doesn’t need one. On-camera flash often gives ugly shadows. And accusing Canon of “not being designed by a photographer” is an unhelpful comment.

There are many good cameras on the market. You can always look elsewhere.

 

[Ropp]

I picked up a Canon 90 EX on Ebay, they go for $35-$40 and are very compact, giving the same benefit as a pop-up flash.

 

[JohnSil]

Hi,

I use a 70D and its lovely, but in low light I struggle, so setting my heart on an R7 having seen someone photographing hand held as I do, my specialist subject area, competition quality scale models in existing light and the worlds best/biggest show, best for seeing true paintwork and build quality with no flash burnout etc, and he was on 100,000 asa, f22 and so on, ideal but beyond a 70D as I had there. Amazed he showed me a photo on rear screen and no grain and no camera shake.

Envious or what !!! since then I want one.

In my other line of work I am forever in low light environments called museums photographing items and needing higher shutter speeds and apertures for depth of field given focal lengths I use and my need for no noise in images as photogrammetry relies on detail matching between 60% overlapping photos for functionality but not artificial dots (grain/noise) that change in location between shots ! The R7 is my need here.

I need to put light into areas at times and a pop up flash does that.

I have just been knocked down by reading the review and the R7 has NO POP UP FLASH.

What the F, 100 yrs of photography and the portable there when you need it pop up has been nuked. Clearly not designed by a photographer, So how does one get light into small areas on engineering items ? I am often travelling light, no bag with flashguns etc, and a 580EX is too much above lens to do that.

I have just been dealt a body blow, resigned to struggling with the 70D and 800asa and noise forever, ir what is the solution, and my longed for R7 is lost to me.

What %$£& at Canon went and did that ?

Also the joystick sounds a bit 'off' as well. We need users designing these things.

DBenz

Benz, don't blame that you're photographic knowledge is not that advanced on the camera. I have not owned a camera with a pop-up flash for 15 years. When I need light, I bring it but I don't blame my equipment! As a result i've become an expert at lighting.

AND why is your buddy shooting his R7 at iso 100K and at f22? Jimminy Crickets, he can't use his gear either. Yes, I know, he's trying to eek ot a bit of dof.

Before sticking my foot in my mouth I made sure, and sure enough, the R7 has AFB. Woah, what in the heck is THAT you ask. Taken from the internet....

"Yes, the Canon EOS R7 can automatically stack images in-camera to create a focus stack. This process is called focus bracketing, which involves taking a series of shots at different focus distances and then combining them into a single image. The R7 can automatically align and stack the images to create a depth composite."

THAT means you can shoot noise-free at a low iso and at a reasonable f-stop and get the whole model in focus if that's the goal.

IF it were me I'd bring 2 small video lights, one for each side, even flashlights and gel on one side with a yellowish gel to create a golden hour light effect.

Anyway, I think you get my drift!!!

John

 

[KevinRA]

Get an R10 - cracking little camera which is pretty much the same in use as the R7 but just a bit smaller (and I prefer the ergonomics too).

It may look like a rebel but is has the functionality and performance of the xxD DSLRs not the xxxD's

 

[charlyw64]

What the F, 100 yrs of photography and the portable there when you need it pop up has been nuked.

I think that decision was inspired - I have had cameras with pop up flash guns for almost 20 years and I haven't taken a single shot i kept with it because the light it produces is so horrible.

 

[charlyw64]

Before sticking my foot in my mouth I made sure, and sure enough, the R7 has AFB. Woah, what in the heck is THAT you ask. Taken from the internet....

"Yes, the Canon EOS R7 can automatically stack images in-camera to create a focus stack.

And that is the surefire way to ruin the image. I haven't seen a single really artifact free, successful stack anywhere by anyone.

 

[Phylloxera]

What about using an R50 ?

 

[koenkooi]

[...]"Yes, the Canon EOS R7 can automatically stack images in-camera to create a focus stack. This process is called focus bracketing, which involves taking a series of shots at different focus distances and then combining them into a single image. The R7 can automatically align and stack the images to create a depth composite."

THAT means you can shoot noise-free at a low iso and at a reasonable f-stop and get the whole model in focus if that's the goal. [...]

The R7 has a slow readout when using the electronic shutter (which AFB forces you to do) and IBIS will move the sensor during exposure. This can lead to warping between frames, I ran into that last week. I had a big enough overlap to remove every other picture from the stack (in post!), but I did have to do a bunch of cleanups in areas where Helicon Focus picked all pictures, e.g. the spurs on the legs of a damselfly.

I think AFB is a great feature and the in-body depth-composite does a really good job, but it does take practice and luck to get the most out of it.

ISO 100.000 at f/22 isn't what I'd call optimal, but if it gets the shots you want, more power to the OP! It's not wrong if it works!

 

[mclewis]

The xD Canon DSLRs (1D, 5D, 7D) never had a pop up flash. Only the lower level Canon DSLRs had built in flashes. This has been transferred to the R range and is nothing new.

A separate flash has always given better results than a built in one.

I have a R7. The joystick is not an issue.

Using f/22 on a R7 isn't a great idea either. That is well into diffraction softness territory.

 

[Le Kilt]

Sometimes life is so hard :-(

 

[Gallstoned]

I second this. Pop-up flashes tend to create harsh and ugly results which either need very much work at post to get something out of them or are simply unusable.

And Museums?! In most of them flashes are forbidden anyway to prevent decay (at least for paintings).

 

[drsnoopy]

Before sticking my foot in my mouth I made sure, and sure enough, the R7 has AFB. Woah, what in the heck is THAT you ask. Taken from the internet....

"Yes, the Canon EOS R7 can automatically stack images in-camera to create a focus stack.

And that is the surefire way to ruin the image. I haven't seen a single really artifact free, successful stack anywhere by anyone.

I have several. Mostly of flowers, taken with a long FL, not close, and not at macro scale. There are no visible artefacts. And no. I’m not going to post any. I’ve seen this argument before and I understand it perfectly when used for true macro scale images of e.g. insects, as the parallax and background/foreground scale effects become limiting. However for flowers - and for scale models - it works very well indeed.

 

[drsnoopy]

What about using an R50 ?

Or an R10 as suggested by some of us earlier?

 

[drsnoopy]

The xD Canon DSLRs (1D, 5D, 7D) never had a pop up flash. Only the lower level Canon DSLRs had built in flashes. This has been transferred to the R range and is nothing new.

A separate flash has always given better results than a built in one.

I have a R7. The joystick is not an issue.

Using f/22 on a R7 isn't a great idea either. That is well into diffraction softness territory.

The 7D absolutely did have a built in pop up flash. There’s one sitting on my desk!

But yes a separate flash is better in all respects, or even an LED light panel for the OP’s use case.

 

[Tony Milton]

I changed from a 70D to an R10. The R10 has a pop up flash.is far superior, particularly with focussing, and much less degradation at high ISO compared with the70D. I can use all my EF, EF-L and EF-S lenses with the adapter. Also should I want to all RF and RF-S lenses. I do not consider the extra cost of the R7 over the R10 worth it. If I had to go FF I would go for the R8. as being the only affordable FF camera.

In conclusion, if you were happy with the 70D then the R10 should suite you.

 

[J.K.T.]

I second this. Pop-up flashes tend to create harsh and ugly results which either need very much work at post to get something out of them or are simply unusable.

I don't. With a suitable diffuser they can give quite decent macro shots.

 

[DBenz01]

Hi,

I am photographing mechanical items from aircraft in more often than not dimly lit museums and hangars, I am not after a beauty shot for Alamy etc, just needing to get to see what lurks under an overhang or inside something, and taking a series of overlapping photos 60% for photogrammetry. The pop up gets used, there is a risk of reflection back at times but with minimum highlight slider and max shadows in raw converter, and I also give 17 clarity, my Photogrammetry prog accepts the results usually. and photogrammetry likes angled shots so one straight at the object is not vital.

A flash attached to the hotshoe such as my 580EX canon is too far away from line of sight of lens and causes shadows into the orifice or under the overhang. Pop up is essential and there if ever I need it. however wonderful the R7 is, and the reason I am considering one, allowing very high ASA so as to allow photos in low light, the darkness that is inside large holes or under overhangs needs a litlle help. and the essential popup for such mokmets isnt there, Canon dont think of such needs as that.

If the R10 has pop up then R10 is the way, am I going to be with less of a wonderful new tool for my low light museum and hangar work, and my scale model photography,

I like the idea of using my lenses still, saves loads of money, and Canon dont do them anyway for the R series, they are Canon EFL 17-40 and Canon 60mm macro.

Will my 580EX work as for scale models I bounce it off a low ceiling or white card above my head. However the idea is if the room lighting is balanced to true daylight, use no flash, responders shock at using f22, well for scale model aircraft f16 can give a slight loss of DoF on far end of a both wings in shot, or tail if oblique aft from cowling area. I use to set shots up on the dof lines on lenses but when going over to digital such lines were not there on the lens bodies. So I focus third of the way in and go for f16 or f22, though f22 loses quality whilst giving dof so can be a loss not a gain.

What new lenses are there for the R10, my 60mm macro doesnt seem to have an equivalent, 90mm means I have to be further away and i cant be photographing into the exquisite work in a 1/48 cockpit if I cant lean over it, and climbing on the table isnt allowed ! I never use my 90mm Tamron macro, waste of money , the 60mm is perfect for the events.

I do struggle with the 17-40 when photographing picturesque cottages as the crop factor makes the resulting 28mm (or thereabouts) not wide enough to get the entire cottage in.

DBenz

 

[KevinRA]

Before sticking my foot in my mouth I made sure, and sure enough, the R7 has AFB. Woah, what in the heck is THAT you ask. Taken from the internet....

"Yes, the Canon EOS R7 can automatically stack images in-camera to create a focus stack.

And that is the surefire way to ruin the image. I haven't seen a single really artifact free, successful stack anywhere by anyone.

This is perfectly possible a lot of the time, with more advanced software such as Helicon with some re-touching and then with work in photoshop, when viewed at quite large sizes - on many subjects.

Retouching and work on PS I'm sure also can make an in camera stack look fine when viewed at normal viewing distances, but don't use that as Helicon works better I think .