R3 vs R8 AF sharpness

[Eugene_1973]

I've noticed that image from R8 more sharp compared with my R3.

On zoom lenses it wasn't so noticeable. But I started to use L fixed lenses, and immediately noticed the difference.

I expected razor sharpness, but unfortunately I can see it on R8 only.

Please help

 

[Dareshooter]

Example images with exif data from both cameras would help enormously here.

 

[R2D2]

Example images with exif data from both cameras would help enormously here.

Yes please!!!

Plus any camera settings that would influence "sharpness."

R2

 

[Eugene_1973]

Both pictures with the same aperture, shutter speed, iso, distance, lens RF35L 1,4.

 

[R2D2]

Both pictures with the same aperture, shutter speed, iso, distance, lens RF35L 1,4.

Thanks for posting, but do you have the original size images available? Besides being harder to evaluate, these 1 MP resized and resampled images add more (post processing) variables.

Are your Picture Styles exactly the same (with the same settings)? How about any (applied) Profiles in software? Are the lens corrections the same?

In the original images are the focal planes in exactly the same location? Is there any front/back focusing going on?

Keep in mind that often a more sophisticated camera will produce a softer and blander image SOOC with less processing pre-applied. Do the R3's RAW images sharpen up nicely in Post (without looking over-sharpened)?

Any more info you can provide will help. TIA.

R2

--
Good judgment comes from experience.
Experience comes from bad judgment.
http://www.pbase.com/jekyll_and_hyde/galleries

 

[Karl_Guttag]

Are these cropped or resized?

When people ask for a sample, it would be best to post a full-size JPEG. When you post something that has been resized, much of the meaningful detail is lost, which is a function of the resizing.

Unfortunately, you can't post RAW on DPReview, because even JPEGs are a function of camera settings. When you do an out-of-camera JPEG, they are a function of the camera's "Picture Style" settings in the RED/Camera menu (tab# may vary by camera). If you shoot RAW/cRAW, Canon's DP Professional software will apply the Picture Style settings unless you change them (option in the menu); most other RAW conversion (Adobe, DXO, etc.) software likely ignores the Picture Style settings.

Both pictures with the same aperture, shutter speed, iso, distance, lens RF35L 1,4.

 

[ThrillaMozilla]

You should have submitted the entire jpeg photos, unedited and saved at highest quality. If these are resized, you destroyed whatever evidence you were trying to submit. If they are cropped and not resized, you definitely don't have a case based on these photos, in my opinion.

Besides that, the subject is not very good for determining focusing accuracy.

You might be looking at the hair to the left of the left eye, and basing your conclusion on that. It's less sharp with the R3, simply because the hair is further from the plane of focus. You should be looking at the edge of the iris of the eye, and the eyelashes. No difference there that I can see.

Try again if you still think you have real evidence.

 

[LXI_Martin]

I've noticed that image from R8 more sharp compared with my R3.

On zoom lenses it wasn't so noticeable. But I started to use L fixed lenses, and immediately noticed the difference.

I expected razor sharpness, but unfortunately I can see it on R8 only.

Please help

What 'clarity' setting do you have on the R3? Does the R8 have such a setting?

 

[Tazz93]

There could be various reason for this (assuming it is really a consistent issue), but I would think it is more of an artifact of the AA filter. Canon has been known to differ the filters from sensor to sensor. I would have expected them to do the opposite, weaker filter on the R3 stronger filter on the R8, but I haven't seen any info on it regarding these two bodies. So... I guess it could be the other way round and explain the differences you found on your test.

There could also be a fault on your R3. Its possible the body has a stabilization or focusing issue. To rule out this, turn off stabilization and use manual focus with a tripod. Also, you wouldn't want to test this out on a moving subject.

 

[RLight]

Are you using eshutter on the R3? If not, it makes a huge difference in AF hitrate accuracy to the point, I can tell you even without samples, you’re correct as the R8 has much smarter AF our the gate; it’s the newer firmware really influences AF hitrate to the point that Mechanical or EFCS on the R3 < AF hitrate on the R8 with EFCS or ES. But, ES on the R3 > then the AF hitrate on the R8 in either. ES on Canon's has a much higher hitrate than Mechanical or EFCS. Been using ES since the EOS M6 II days, just be careful of banding under artificial light or rolling shutter artifacts. Canon's with Stacked CMOS sensors which are impervious to rolling shutter and banding under artificial light have a huge advantage like the R3, R5 II and R1. eShutter (ES) makes such a difference on my R8, I have C1 set to Fv with eShutter, C2, set to Tv with eShutter and High frequency Flickr in the quick menu mapping. I still use Fv normal for EFCS when needed, but I fall back to ES whenever possible on C1/C2 depending if I'm shooting artificial light or not because it makes a huge difference on both the R8, and R3 in terms of AF hitrate compared to Mechanical or EFCS. On the R3, I used ES full time. On my R5 II? Ditto. R8? As often as it makes sense.

Side note, I really recommend reading the unofficial EOS R3 guide, from Canon... I'd had the R3 for years, and learned a lot from the document...

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/5tdy....pdf?rlkey=nantpnm2s8kcs8dcrt783hnk7&e=1&dl=0

But yes, it's not your imagination, the AF on the R8 is a lot smarter. But, it's not a stacked sensor. The R3 in ES is usually "better" than the R8 in EFCS. It's when both are in ES, that the R8 definitely pulls ahead, but again, be careful of banding and rolling shutter. You can use high frequency detection on the R8 to mitigate the banding on the R8 in ES, but, only in Tv and hence my assigning C2 to Tv with ES and high frequency calibration on the quick menu to evaluate each scene. The R3 and R5 II "just do it" if you enable Flickr detection in ES without needing to recalibrate and, without having to select an interval or rolling shutter concerns.

 

[Eugene_1973]

Dear colleagues, thank you all for detailed explanations! Yesterday, I had a time to test more, with different fix focal lenses. It was RF 85 1,2L, 24 1,4L VCM, 35 1,4L VCM.

II would say, that 24, ana 35 mm lenses have more reliable AF on R8, but 85 mm absolutely no difference in the picture.

All tests were made on ES and of course same settings.

So, looks like on telephoto side R3 is amazing. But on wide angle, R8 more precise. Some pictures the same, bit on R3 a bit more mistakes.

It's confirm your opinions about more modern technologies in R8, maybe fixed sensor, maybe stronger AA filter.

As a conclusion, I would like to mention that R3 is a great camera, especially on tele side. Ideal camera for sport and fast moving events.

R8 is ideal for wide angle shooting, like a hi-end pocket "point and shoot" travel camera. Plus easy and light weight for gimbal video set.

So, Im still happy to have this combo.

Just important to know strong and weak sides of both cameras.

 

[R2D2]

Dear colleagues, thank you all for detailed explanations! Yesterday, I had a time to test more

Great that you've done more extensive testing. The more data points the better!

Happy shooting!

R2

 

[ThrillaMozilla]

Dear colleagues, thank you all for detailed explanations! Yesterday, I had a time to test more, with different fix focal lenses. It was RF 85 1,2L, 24 1,4L VCM, 35 1,4L VCM.

II would say, that 24, ana 35 mm lenses have more reliable AF on R8, but 85 mm absolutely no difference in the picture.

All tests were made on ES and of course same settings.

So, looks like on telephoto side R3 is amazing. But on wide angle, R8 more precise. Some pictures the same, bit on R3 a bit more mistakes.

It's confirm your opinions about more modern technologies in R8, maybe fixed sensor, maybe stronger AA filter.

As a conclusion, I would like to mention that R3 is a great camera, especially on tele side. Ideal camera for sport and fast moving events.

R8 is ideal for wide angle shooting, like a hi-end pocket "point and shoot" travel camera. Plus easy and light weight for gimbal video set.

So, Im still happy to have this combo.

Just important to know strong and weak sides of both cameras.

You're entitled to your own opinion, but without evidence, it's really just random internet noise. Sorry, but since you previously presented resized(?) pictures that showed no effect, I choose to disregard your opinion.

You seem to be convinced, but it's very common for people to be subject to confirmation bias. But feel free to submit actual evidence if you want.

I'm sorry to seem unfriendly, but I really like to see better evidence, or evidence.

 

[Eos1n]

Agree. When I use my 14-35L and 35VCM with my both 5ii and R3, I believe that my R3 is sharper just.

so that could mean the R8 is also sharper than the 5ii. not.

this has become like wines….. we all have our personal preferences and maybe there is no such thing as a definitive answer.