Problem with new high end "compacts"

[tkbslc]

(I am using "compact" loosely here as some are quite big, but that's what they are often called)

I have a couple of friends looking for higher end cameras. They think they want a DSLR, because that is what they associate with a high end camera after 30 years of seeing that form factor. I really think they'd be happier with cameras like the Canon G1X mk2, Panasonic FZ-1000, Sony RX100/10, etc. Those won't make them mess with expensive lenses (they will probably never buy) and have great image quality in a smaller size body. But when they see these cameras, they are turned off on first sight. The fact that these are smaller and have a fixed lens, means those who don't know better associate them with $200-400 smaller sensor cameras they've seen for the past decade. I can't get my friends to look at them seriously because they want a "real" camera.

I think these expensive "compacts" will be a tough sell, at least in the US market, for this reason. It's mostly people like us who are buying them, even though they'd likely be better than an entry DSLR for the masses.

 

[samfan]

Compact cameras have been stagnating or even declining in quality until they became threatened by phones. At the same time, DSLRs have leaped lightyears forward.

If I compare a mid-range compact (or ultrazoom) from 10 years ago and 3 years ago, there's not much difference and it's often worse - slower and usually worse lens, too many megapixels (making things worse by noise reduction), usually worse ergonomics and cheaper build quality, although faster startup and AF (but not by much).

At the same time, DSLRs - well compare e.g. Canon 300D and 70D or Nikon D70 and D610 to see how far they got.

Higher-end compacts from a couple of years ago (e.g. the popular crop of 1/1.7" 24-xx mm eq. f/1.8-xx such as Oly XZ-1) fared better, but again weren't THAT much of a leap forward, more like something decent long overdue.

Better compacts really started to make sense only with bigger better sensors, but at the same time are threatened by MILC.

In short, no wonder compacts have bad reputation - they deserve it and have to try to make good again.

--
Don't quote whole posts - your keyboard has the Delete key!

 

[LeicaEye]

People entering the photographic community as you say think that the DSLR is the way to go. As you know photography is a learning curve, as much about equipment as f stops/shutter speeds etc etc..
After they have carried a bag of lenses and a DSLR body around for a few years they will very quickly appreciate
the high end fixed lense cameras such as the Panos' -Sony's, Leicas and the like. Advise them Yes, but they will need to go thro" ALL the stages for themselves.
Don't forget the Mirrorless wonders, they offer the best of both worlds......

 

[Donald B]

People entering the photographic community as you say think that the DSLR is the way to go. As you know photography is a learning curve, as much about equipment as f stops/shutter speeds etc etc..
After they have carried a bag of lenses and a DSLR body around for a few years they will very quickly appreciate
the high end fixed lense cameras such as the Panos' -Sony's, Leicas and the like. Advise them Yes, but they will need to go thro" ALL the stages for themselves.
Don't forget the Mirrorless wonders, they offer the best of both worlds......

couldn't agree more, just wish they would stream live view hdmi out while taking shots.

cheers don

 

[Aberaeron]

(I am using "compact" loosely here as some are quite big, but that's what they are often called)

I have a couple of friends looking for higher end cameras. They think they want a DSLR, because that is what they associate with a high end camera after 30 years of seeing that form factor. I really think they'd be happier with cameras like the Canon G1X mk2, Panasonic FZ-1000, Sony RX100/10, etc. Those won't make them mess with expensive lenses (they will probably never buy) and have great image quality in a smaller size body. But when they see these cameras, they are turned off on first sight. The fact that these are smaller and have a fixed lens, means those who don't know better associate them with $200-400 smaller sensor cameras they've seen for the past decade. I can't get my friends to look at them seriously because they want a "real" camera.

I think these expensive "compacts" will be a tough sell, at least in the US market, for this reason. It's mostly people like us who are buying them, even though they'd likely be better than an entry DSLR for the masses.

Are you concerned that your friends will buy DSLR's or are you concerned that camera companies won't sell stock?

Either way, not really your concern. Let them buy what they want and let the manufacturers sell what they want. It is not in the least important what 'other people' do. Let them be happy. Let the camera companies succeed or fail on the strength and marketing of their products in the face of strong competition. If your friends want a DSLR, let them have it and be happy for them. I'm sure you have made YOUR view known, now let them get on with it in peace unless they ask for your advice.

 

[Mahmoud Mousef]

(I am using "compact" loosely here as some are quite big, but that's what they are often called)

I have a couple of friends looking for higher end cameras. They think they want a DSLR, because that is what they associate with a high end camera after 30 years of seeing that form factor. I really think they'd be happier with cameras like the Canon G1X mk2, Panasonic FZ-1000, Sony RX100/10, etc.

It's actually better to be making suggestions and maybe even a few explanations but not anything much more than that. You don't want to be on the receiving end of "but you recommended this to me and I hate it"-type of discussions

4K video is the big marketing point now. I can see that alone selling far more units than more vague "better quality larger sensor" talk.

 

[Gone for Good]

Let them buy the best high end DSLR gear with fast lenses. When they can't figure out how to use it properly, or find it too heavy, or afraid it will be stolen, they'll sell it. Then, we can pick it up on the used market at a reasonable price!

 

[yzhenkai]

so funny.

 

[tkbslc]

(I am using "compact" loosely here as some are quite big, but that's what they are often called)

I have a couple of friends looking for higher end cameras. They think they want a DSLR, because that is what they associate with a high end camera after 30 years of seeing that form factor. I really think they'd be happier with cameras like the Canon G1X mk2, Panasonic FZ-1000, Sony RX100/10, etc.

It's actually better to be making suggestions and maybe even a few explanations but not anything much more than that. You don't want to be on the receiving end of "but you recommended this to me and I hate it"-type of discussions

I know, that's why I typically give a single 2-3 minute explanation on what I'd get if I were them and then watch silently as they end up buying something different anyway.

 

[tkbslc]

Let them buy the best high end DSLR gear with fast lenses. When they can't figure out how to use it properly, or find it too heavy, or afraid it will be stolen, they'll sell it. Then, we can pick it up on the used market at a reasonable price!

Good luck with that.

Those are usually the people that make ridiculous classifieds like, "Canon 40D, hardly used. Paid $1299, will sell for $1100." :-D

 

[Serickmetz]

If they want a DSLR, let them have one. They won't get into photography if they aren't interested in their gear. Switch gears to helping them make an informed decision about which DSLR will best suit them.

 

[MoreorLess]

(I am using "compact" loosely here as some are quite big, but that's what they are often called)

I have a couple of friends looking for higher end cameras. They think they want a DSLR, because that is what they associate with a high end camera after 30 years of seeing that form factor. I really think they'd be happier with cameras like the Canon G1X mk2, Panasonic FZ-1000, Sony RX100/10, etc. Those won't make them mess with expensive lenses (they will probably never buy) and have great image quality in a smaller size body. But when they see these cameras, they are turned off on first sight. The fact that these are smaller and have a fixed lens, means those who don't know better associate them with $200-400 smaller sensor cameras they've seen for the past decade. I can't get my friends to look at them seriously because they want a "real" camera.

I think these expensive "compacts" will be a tough sell, at least in the US market, for this reason. It's mostly people like us who are buying them, even though they'd likely be better than an entry DSLR for the masses.

DSLR lenses don't of course need to be expensive and the typical setup of a normal kit zoom, a cheap tele and fast normal prime is quite popular for this reason.

Your standard entry level DSLR might come across as pretty dull to the typical poster here but your still talking about a camera with much better AF than any non DSLR that also has much better battery life and indeed a form factor many preffer.

I'v no idea of your friends circumstance but I think what people even if they do want a higher end camera don't need a "with me always" high end camera. For the majority of them the high end camera is probably only needed for holidays and important family events. When it comes to holiday especially I think battery life is a big issue.

 

[justmeMN]

Right now on Amazon, using the same brand for comparison:

Canon SL1 DSLR: $599.00

Canon T5i DSLR: $749.00

Canon PowerShot G1X Mark II compact: $799.

Yes, paying more for a compact camera than a DSLR is a tough sell.

 

[PalmettoFellow]

How do those high end compacts zoom? Is it an electronic slide-switch, or is it manually by turning a ring around the lens?

I'm pretty much done with the electronic zooming. If it's not a point and shoot, I don't want that crap. I like the instant and immediate feedback that only a manual zoom ring can provide.

 

[Brev00]

(I am using "compact" loosely here as some are quite big, but that's what they are often called)

I have a couple of friends looking for higher end cameras. They think they want a DSLR, because that is what they associate with a high end camera after 30 years of seeing that form factor. I really think they'd be happier with cameras like the Canon G1X mk2, Panasonic FZ-1000, Sony RX100/10, etc. Those won't make them mess with expensive lenses (they will probably never buy) and have great image quality in a smaller size body. But when they see these cameras, they are turned off on first sight. The fact that these are smaller and have a fixed lens, means those who don't know better associate them with $200-400 smaller sensor cameras they've seen for the past decade. I can't get my friends to look at them seriously because they want a "real" camera.

I think these expensive "compacts" will be a tough sell, at least in the US market, for this reason. It's mostly people like us who are buying them, even though they'd likely be better than an entry DSLR for the masses.

Is the market for expensive compacts beginners or enthusiasts who already own a dslr with numerous lenses? I would think people who have weighty kits would more readily appreciate.and be willing to afford the lighter, high end compacts. Plus, what is so wrong with dslr's? Unless they start leaking mercury, I don't see any danger.

--

brev99

Explore brev99’s 6,815 photos on Flickr!

www.flickr.com

 

[nikon power]

All uploaded pictures taken by a $10,000 or by a $75 camera look the same. And worse yet, a full size photo will take time to load and people ain't got time for it.

 

[neil holmes]

(I am using "compact" loosely here as some are quite big, but that's what they are often called)

I have a couple of friends looking for higher end cameras. They think they want a DSLR, because that is what they associate with a high end camera after 30 years of seeing that form factor. I really think they'd be happier with cameras like the Canon G1X mk2, Panasonic FZ-1000, Sony RX100/10, etc. Those won't make them mess with expensive lenses (they will probably never buy) and have great image quality in a smaller size body. But when they see these cameras, they are turned off on first sight. The fact that these are smaller and have a fixed lens, means those who don't know better associate them with $200-400 smaller sensor cameras they've seen for the past decade. I can't get my friends to look at them seriously because they want a "real" camera.

I think these expensive "compacts" will be a tough sell, at least in the US market, for this reason. It's mostly people like us who are buying them, even though they'd likely be better than an entry DSLR for the masses.

If the Panasonic LX8 is as good as I think it will be then it might make a few people think differently.

If it does 4k even half competently it will sell by the truckload. I also think it might take away from m4/3 (including Panasonic) and Nikon 1 system and maybe even some APSC.

I would consider selling my GX7 and get the LX8......and keep the A7 for when I want better image quality.

 

[Greg A A]

(I am using "compact" loosely here as some are quite big, but that's what they are often called)

I have a couple of friends looking for higher end cameras. They think they want a DSLR, because that is what they associate with a high end camera after 30 years of seeing that form factor. I really think they'd be happier with cameras like the Canon G1X mk2, Panasonic FZ-1000, Sony RX100/10, etc. Those won't make them mess with expensive lenses (they will probably never buy) and have great image quality in a smaller size body. But when they see these cameras, they are turned off on first sight. The fact that these are smaller and have a fixed lens, means those who don't know better associate them with $200-400 smaller sensor cameras they've seen for the past decade. I can't get my friends to look at them seriously because they want a "real" camera.

I think these expensive "compacts" will be a tough sell, at least in the US market, for this reason. It's mostly people like us who are buying them, even though they'd likely be better than an entry DSLR for the masses.

If the Panasonic LX8 is as good as I think it will be then it might make a few people think differently.

If it does 4k even half competently it will sell by the truckload. I also think it might take away from m4/3 (including Panasonic) and Nikon 1 system and maybe even some APSC.

I would consider selling my GX7 and get the LX8......and keep the A7 for when I want better image quality.

Have you done much 1080P HD video editing? 4K requires even more of the GPU, CPU and storage system than HD. Most consumers could care less about any more resolution and ease than what they get from their cell phone. I question whether most of the folks on this forum are setup to edit 4K video, except in very short snipets. I see very little reason to step up from 1080P to 4K simply for the reason that downloading and editing any significant footage would be troublesome.

 

[brownie314]

(I am using "compact" loosely here as some are quite big, but that's what they are often called)

I have a couple of friends looking for higher end cameras. They think they want a DSLR, because that is what they associate with a high end camera after 30 years of seeing that form factor. I really think they'd be happier with cameras like the Canon G1X mk2, Panasonic FZ-1000, Sony RX100/10, etc. Those won't make them mess with expensive lenses (they will probably never buy) and have great image quality in a smaller size body. But when they see these cameras, they are turned off on first sight. The fact that these are smaller and have a fixed lens, means those who don't know better associate them with $200-400 smaller sensor cameras they've seen for the past decade. I can't get my friends to look at them seriously because they want a "real" camera.

I think these expensive "compacts" will be a tough sell, at least in the US market, for this reason. It's mostly people like us who are buying them, even though they'd likely be better than an entry DSLR for the masses.

Are you concerned that your friends will buy DSLR's or are you concerned that camera companies won't sell stock?

Either way, not really your concern. Let them buy what they want and let the manufacturers sell what they want. It is not in the least important what 'other people' do. Let them be happy. Let the camera companies succeed or fail on the strength and marketing of their products in the face of strong competition. If your friends want a DSLR, let them have it and be happy for them. I'm sure you have made YOUR view known, now let them get on with it in peace unless they ask for your advice.

I disagree. As people "in the know" it is our duty to our friends to help them make a good buying decision. Unless you don't care about your friends, in that case this post makes no sense at all. If I was a complete Noob to a field with complex buying decisions I would hope if I had a friend who was well informed in this field that I could count on good advice. Even if they told me that my ideas about that field were way off target.

Cameras are a funny thing. Many people think they are in the know, but are really unprepared to confront the wide range of options available. So they just "punt" when faced with complex decisions and default back to what they know - big DSLRs. And really, it isn't a terrible decision. But when a person really needs a more portable system (if that is the case) and we care about that person, we should feel free to inform them that there are good options to the big DSLRs.

 

[neil holmes]

(I am using "compact" loosely here as some are quite big, but that's what they are often called)

I have a couple of friends looking for higher end cameras. They think they want a DSLR, because that is what they associate with a high end camera after 30 years of seeing that form factor. I really think they'd be happier with cameras like the Canon G1X mk2, Panasonic FZ-1000, Sony RX100/10, etc. Those won't make them mess with expensive lenses (they will probably never buy) and have great image quality in a smaller size body. But when they see these cameras, they are turned off on first sight. The fact that these are smaller and have a fixed lens, means those who don't know better associate them with $200-400 smaller sensor cameras they've seen for the past decade. I can't get my friends to look at them seriously because they want a "real" camera.

I think these expensive "compacts" will be a tough sell, at least in the US market, for this reason. It's mostly people like us who are buying them, even though they'd likely be better than an entry DSLR for the masses.

If the Panasonic LX8 is as good as I think it will be then it might make a few people think differently.

If it does 4k even half competently it will sell by the truckload. I also think it might take away from m4/3 (including Panasonic) and Nikon 1 system and maybe even some APSC.

I would consider selling my GX7 and get the LX8......and keep the A7 for when I want better image quality.

Have you done much 1080P HD video editing? 4K requires even more of the GPU, CPU and storage system than HD. Most consumers could care less about any more resolution and ease than what they get from their cell phone. I question whether most of the folks on this forum are setup to edit 4K video, except in very short snipets. I see very little reason to step up from 1080P to 4K simply for the reason that downloading and editing any significant footage would be troublesome.

--
f8 and be there

I have been playing around with video and using my A7 to record music videos (as in songs recorded live not mini movies).

My current computer is not really good enough for 4k either (and it struggles a bit with HD even).

It is something I will do more and more though and I am going to be upgrading to a 4k capable computer when I "retire" in a few months....maybe get a A7S plus external recorder (I shoot live music stills and am dabbling in video).

For other things, the LX8 will do pretty much what the GX7 does I think. If the GX7 was my "main" camera, then I would not think of replacing it with a point and shoot no matter how good.