gardenersassistant
Veteran Member
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Post processing products and techniques - Part 10 (JPEG and raw)
- Thread starter gardenersassistant
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indeed interesting, i looked at my snake and this where my settings after i was pleased with the result:
tone tab.
the usm and ev and other settings.
one thing im not sure of is the influence of the usm setting in jpeg development: 70% .6 1. so two images one with and one with out.
setings as above with 70% r0.6 thrhld 1
settings as above and developsetting usm at 0% (no develop sharpnening active)
i don't see much difference but maybe i don't no where to look
quote's out sp7 manual:
Black level controls create clarity of the dark areas.
You can specify the level of black with this function. When increasing this parameter, the color black becomes deeper black.
This function works effectively when a picture is taken against the sun and the image becomes unimpressive, or when a landscape image becomes washed out, or when a landscape image becomes obscured or influenced by haze.
Contrast means the difference between bright area and dark area.
When increasing the contrast, the bright area becomes brighter and the dark area becomes darker, i.e. high contrast.
On the contrary, when decreasing the contrast, difference between the bright area and dark area becomes smaller, i.e. low contrast.
Gamma is a brightness adjustment. As the gamma increases, the overall brightness becomes higher, and vice versa.
You may think it is the same as exposure bias operation, however, they are not the same thing.
With the exposure bias, the brightness is adjusted without changing the ratio of bright range and dark range . However, with gamma, the ratio is changed.
When increasing the gamma value, the bright range is compressed, and the dark range is expanded.
When decreasing the gamma value, the dark range is compressed and the bright range is expanded.
Therefore, in this software, this operation is considered as a tone-change-operation and classified as 'Tone Adjustment' since it changes tone.
so i read it as two ways to get to the same adres. (wel three if you consider usm tool)
What does the manuals say about "clarity tool " in dxo and lr amnd psp?
tone tab.
the usm and ev and other settings.
one thing im not sure of is the influence of the usm setting in jpeg development: 70% .6 1. so two images one with and one with out.
setings as above with 70% r0.6 thrhld 1
settings as above and developsetting usm at 0% (no develop sharpnening active)
i don't see much difference but maybe i don't no where to look
quote's out sp7 manual:
Black level controls create clarity of the dark areas.
You can specify the level of black with this function. When increasing this parameter, the color black becomes deeper black.
This function works effectively when a picture is taken against the sun and the image becomes unimpressive, or when a landscape image becomes washed out, or when a landscape image becomes obscured or influenced by haze.
Contrast means the difference between bright area and dark area.
When increasing the contrast, the bright area becomes brighter and the dark area becomes darker, i.e. high contrast.
On the contrary, when decreasing the contrast, difference between the bright area and dark area becomes smaller, i.e. low contrast.
Gamma is a brightness adjustment. As the gamma increases, the overall brightness becomes higher, and vice versa.
You may think it is the same as exposure bias operation, however, they are not the same thing.
With the exposure bias, the brightness is adjusted without changing the ratio of bright range and dark range . However, with gamma, the ratio is changed.
When increasing the gamma value, the bright range is compressed, and the dark range is expanded.
When decreasing the gamma value, the dark range is compressed and the bright range is expanded.
Therefore, in this software, this operation is considered as a tone-change-operation and classified as 'Tone Adjustment' since it changes tone.
so i read it as two ways to get to the same adres. (wel three if you consider usm tool)
What does the manuals say about "clarity tool " in dxo and lr amnd psp?
Last edited:
Nick,
i tried this:
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/57862426
Magic wand, contiguous off, then one click to select all those tiny areas. Then Lassoo (around a single area) to get rid of what you don't want selected. Then Paint bucket. One click with Contiguous off.
somehow i cant get the magicwant selection to stay active went i select with lasso the no wanted area. what am i doing wrong?
(it's continuescheckbox ("aangrenzend") works marvellous! )
(did you read about foreground and background color?_ left square is front color for bucket and right square is for eraser tool. , not such as a replace this color for this color thing. The pictogram seems to say change front with rear and vice versa.
filling replacing color.
Last edited:
gardenersassistant
Veteran Member
I have a theory about that. USM with a small radius like 0.6 does edge sharpening, but there are virtually no edges in that image, so it probably has little or no effect. With a larger radius it is more of a "clarity"/"defogging" thing (but in SP7 not a large enough Radius to do the job properly I think), and clarity/defogging does have an impact on the image.indeed interesting, i looked at my snake and this where my settings after i was pleased with the result:
tone tab.
the usm and ev and other settings.
one thing im not sure of is the influence of the usm setting in jpeg development: 70% .6 1. so two images one with and one with out.
setings as above with 70% r0.6 thrhld 1
settings as above and developsetting usm at 0% (no develop sharpnening active)
i don't see much difference but maybe i don't no where to look
Here is a comparison between how it looks straight out of ACR compared to how it looks after than when a strong defog has been applied, in this case Amount 50%, Radius 200 pixels, Threshold 0.
Click on Original size to see this flip between versions.
There does seem to be some overlap in where you can get to using USM, Dark level, Contrast and Gamma in varying amounts and proportions. Exactly how far that overlap stretches I have no idea.
--
Nick
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gardenersassistant
Veteran Member
I've picked up the relevant parts of the user guides but dpreview isn't letting me post it here. I get this:
--
Nick
gardenersassistant's collections on Flickr
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gardenersassistant
Veteran Member
I've put it here as a Word (97) document.
That's very interesting Ed. The second, gamma+contrast, version appears to me to have more clarity than the USM+black level version.spike29 said: "If you set radius at 5.0 threshold 0 and amount around 250- 350 it does some defogging / clarity. The snake was done by this. So maybe if you/i use both blacklevel and usm is equals LR/DxO ease of use." I did that. This is what I got:
Personally, I like things a bit darker.
View: original size
Instead of the black level, I worked with contrast and lowered the gamma a tad:
I like it darker still, but this will do.
View: original size
This is a cut-and-paste from the old thread. I did want to say that what I did was to follow the USM instructions -- "set radius at 5.0 threshold 0 and amount around 250- 350" -- but instead of adjusting the black levels I adjusted the contrast and the gamma.
And here I used the same "set radius at 5.0 threshold 0 and amount around 250- 350" and left the contrast normal at 1.5. But I set the black level to 50 (up) and dropped the gamma to 1 (down). I tried adjusting the contrast, even moving the contrast center. The results were OK but I liked this better:
Snake on SP7 with multiple adjustments. Original was jpg.
Now, if it were my snake and my shot, I'd darken the streambed some more. But it's not, and we must see the streambed and the reflections over it to stay true to the scene.
Snake on SP7 with multiple adjustments. Original was jpg.
Now, if it were my snake and my shot, I'd darken the streambed some more. But it's not, and we must see the streambed and the reflections over it to stay true to the scene.
gardenersassistant
Veteran Member
^^^ Does this mean you have solved the "can't get the magic wand selection to stay active" problem? Or is it still a problem?
I've read that, but I still don't understand how it is relevant to the Replace colour issue.
Here is the Replace colour dialog showing the popup saying what the top colour is for.
Here is the Replace colour dialog showing the popup saying what the bottom colour is for.
I selected the colour in the top box by clicking on the top box and then using the eyedropper to pick a colour from the right hand statue's head, as shown here.
The foreground colour over on the left (not visible in this screen shot) changed to that grey colour.
I then picked the replacement colour by clicking on the bottom box and picking a bright green colour from the colour picker.
Some other parts of the statue went magenta. Don't know why that is.
This time when I picked the (bright green) colour the foreground colour over on the left didn't change colour. Neither did the background colour.
--
Nick
gardenersassistant's collections on Flickr
The safest and most inclusive global community of photography enthusiasts. The best place for inspiration, connection, and sharing!
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gardenersassistant
Veteran Member
Ah, I misunderstood. Thanks for the clarification Ed.That's very interesting Ed. The second, gamma+contrast, version appears to me to have more clarity than the USM+black level version.spike29 said: "If you set radius at 5.0 threshold 0 and amount around 250- 350 it does some defogging / clarity. The snake was done by this. So maybe if you/i use both blacklevel and usm is equals LR/DxO ease of use." I did that. This is what I got:
Personally, I like things a bit darker.
View: original size
Instead of the black level, I worked with contrast and lowered the gamma a tad:
I like it darker still, but this will do.
View: original size
This is a cut-and-paste from the old thread. I did want to say that what I did was to follow the USM instructions -- "set radius at 5.0 threshold 0 and amount around 250- 350" -- but instead of adjusting the black levels I adjusted the contrast and the gamma.
--
Nick
gardenersassistant's collections on Flickr
The safest and most inclusive global community of photography enthusiasts. The best place for inspiration, connection, and sharing!
www.flickr.com
it is still a problem, when i use magic want and checkbox off, it select all and if i choose lasso to deselect statue and bushes in the first half of the image all of magic want selection disappears. do have i to do it vise versa? first lasso not wanted changed selection and then magic want sky area?
Oh sorry, i am reading the manual and it said something about front for bucket and pencil brush and back is for eraser tool. and you can switch between colors by clicking the arrows (c) i thought it was one is color picked of the image and the second is filled with color from the"wishlist" so change of color is only between the two selected colors.
That would explain the wrong fillup.
But somehow that's not the case. so i don't know exactly what it suppose to do.
(i will follow discripton below later)
Here is the Replace colour dialog showing the popup saying what the top colour is for.
Here is the Replace colour dialog showing the popup saying what the bottom colour is for.
I selected the colour in the top box by clicking on the top box and then using the eyedropper to pick a colour from the right hand statue's head, as shown here.
The foreground colour over on the left (not visible in this screen shot) changed to that grey colour.
I then picked the replacement colour by clicking on the bottom box and picking a bright green colour from the colour picker.
Some other parts of the statue went magenta. Don't know why that is.
This time when I picked the (bright green) colour the foreground colour over on the left didn't change colour. Neither did the background colour.
--
Nick
http://www.flickr.com/photos/gardenersassistant/collections/
GardenersAssistant Photography Videos - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmBgEwRDfiQMYTPORSzDxvw
https://www.talkphotography.co.uk/t...-dslr-primes-a-journey-of-exploration.531050/
gardenersassistant
Veteran Member
Sorry. There is something I forgot to mention. Make the selection with the magic wand. Click on the lassoo icon. Hold down the Alt key while making the lassoo selection (a little minus sign appears on the cursor). What you have selected with the lassoo will be removed from the selection.
Oh sorry, i am reading the manual and it said something about front for bucket and pencil brush and back is for eraser tool. and you can switch between colors by clicking the arrows (c) i thought it was one is color picked of the image and the second is filled with color from the"wishlist" so change of color is only between the two selected colors.
That would explain the wrong fillup.
But somehow that's not the case. so i don't know exactly what it suppose to do.
(i will follow discripton below later)
Here is the Replace colour dialog showing the popup saying what the top colour is for.
Here is the Replace colour dialog showing the popup saying what the bottom colour is for.
I selected the colour in the top box by clicking on the top box and then using the eyedropper to pick a colour from the right hand statue's head, as shown here.
The foreground colour over on the left (not visible in this screen shot) changed to that grey colour.
I then picked the replacement colour by clicking on the bottom box and picking a bright green colour from the colour picker.
Some other parts of the statue went magenta. Don't know why that is.
This time when I picked the (bright green) colour the foreground colour over on the left didn't change colour. Neither did the background colour.
--
Nick
http://www.flickr.com/photos/gardenersassistant/collections/
GardenersAssistant Photography Videos - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmBgEwRDfiQMYTPORSzDxvw
https://www.talkphotography.co.uk/t...-dslr-primes-a-journey-of-exploration.531050/
--
Nick
gardenersassistant's collections on Flickr
The safest and most inclusive global community of photography enthusiasts. The best place for inspiration, connection, and sharing!
www.flickr.com
Mikedigi
Forum Pro
i am nterested in your comment that SP7 Manual is better written than SP5. A few years ago, SP were celebrating their 10th (I think) birthday. I wrote to them ssaying that the feedback on the Pan Forum was that their software was good but that their English manual was a standing joke and immpossible for me personally to understand. I advised them to get a native English speaking, PP knowing photographer to simplify their interface and to completely rewrite their Manual. This way, I said, they would sell a lot more software. I did not, to my disappointment, get a reply, but perhaps this and other feedback made them do something. I think I copied my letter onto this Forum and some people disapproved !!!
i do believe strongly that your best customer is one who tells you what is good and bad in your product, not one who puts up with it, or one who tells everyone else how bad your product is, or one who just walks away and buys someone else's product.
Mike
i do believe strongly that your best customer is one who tells you what is good and bad in your product, not one who puts up with it, or one who tells everyone else how bad your product is, or one who just walks away and buys someone else's product.
Mike
I did years ago 2013 the same about red eye correction and there answere:
Unfortunately, "SILKYPIX Developer Studio" does not
have the red eye correction tool.
In addition, there is no current plan to develop
for this function.
Please understand this situation.
Best regards,
Txxxx xxxxx
Support Center
Ichikawa Soft Laboratory Co., Ltd.
And a year later in Silkypix 6 what a new option?
So the feedback does something even when they deny anything to do about it. ;-)
in addition of the manual see for your self to see if its better:here
Last edited:
Nice link. It contained an image of the snake with the title xx.rw2. I was sad to find that it only had the jpg of the image, not the RAW.
Hi Edhume and others, i set up a storage to put all our original images and examples in to keep easy acces to them in this nice thread of learning from each other. for now im the owner but i will try to make it a group cloud with a few of the regular posters who has the login data to get fully access and can "moderate" (ony one who wants to step in please let me know.)
It contains folders for images and other information in a cloud for every one who is interested in our chase to more knowledge and gaining more skills.
In my mind is this place is a gathering of interesting things we came up with in the threads and want to share this for others.
im in the progress of how to deal with this so please every comment will be nice.
i placed some test images already. also the rw2 of the snake. ;-)
test images
tutorials and explainations
Ah this is a key information! It worked fine now.
Ok i did your description and i notice a difference of approach:
i think you did: top tab improve, color change, color replacement. then you end up in yours belows dialoge.
i did: double tab on front square, choose color in colorchoise dialoge.
easy aproache double tab on blue square (was already blue now)
(did as a test also choose a color in rearsquare (red) or and that's nice: use the eyedropper to "copy" a color somewhere in your main image. like the green grass left below, or the purple of the flower near the hand.)
eyedrop on main image for copying a color.
now tab improve color=>
did try this also with red as color in rear square chosen and flipped with arrows
did a switch square front rear and see selection preview is totally black. (tab selected)
Now i did just switch squares hit bucket in blue sky poef all red. (black and with mini squares are reset.
I just found out: if you go tab to color replacement: and the selection is black: click with the eyedropper somewhere in the black and the front square turns in the color of the same place in the image (what i did from the square straight on the big image preview.
(turn it to right knob (image and you can choose in the small kader on the(colored image a color. (in selection it stays black and white and the chosen color is just a gues.)
There is a buggy thing or something i can't grasp why one is black and white image and the other first total black..
(this is something to write down in a doc with pictures how to do it quick and easy. because the ALT lassoo thing is not visual mentioned as the next step before filling replacement color and works fine. )
(still i can't grasp why you get that strange effect)
--Here is the Replace colour dialog showing the popup saying what the top colour is for.
Here is the Replace colour dialog showing the popup saying what the bottom colour is for.
I selected the colour in the top box by clicking on the top box and then using the eyedropper to pick a colour from the right hand statue's head, as shown here.
The foreground colour over on the left (not visible in this screen shot) changed to that grey colour.
I then picked the replacement colour by clicking on the bottom box and picking a bright green colour from the colour picker.
Some other parts of the statue went magenta. Don't know why that is.
This time when I picked the (bright green) colour the foreground colour over on the left didn't change colour. Neither did the background colour.
--
Nick
http://www.flickr.com/photos/gardenersassistant/collections/
GardenersAssistant Photography Videos - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmBgEwRDfiQMYTPORSzDxvw
https://www.talkphotography.co.uk/t...-dslr-primes-a-journey-of-exploration.531050/
Nick
http://www.flickr.com/photos/gardenersassistant/collections/
GardenersAssistant Photography Videos - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmBgEwRDfiQMYTPORSzDxvw
https://www.talkphotography.co.uk/t...-dslr-primes-a-journey-of-exploration.531050/
Last edited:
gardenersassistant
Veteran Member
Let's start with a colour already in the sky. The Foreground colour (over on the left) is almost white and the Background colour is almost black. In the Replace colour dialog only a few little bits of the mask are white. That is because the Replace colour dialog started off with the selected colour being the same as the Foreground colour, which is almost white, and there is very little in the image that is close to white.
I close the Replace colour dialog, switch the Foreground and Background colours using the little arrows, so the Foreground colour is almost black. I reopen the Replace colour dialog. Now the Selection colour is almost black, because that is the Foreground colour and that is what the Replace Color dialog starts off with. Now more of the image is selected because there is quite a lot in the image that is somewhat close to the almost black Foreground colour. (How close it has to be so as to be selected depends on the Fuzziness slider - called Toleration in some other applications. With a small Fuzziness value only colours close to the selection colour will be selected. As the Fuziness increases colours increasingly different from the selection colour will be selected.)
If I click on the Selection colour box in the Replace color dialog (the one at the top that is black at the moment) and then click in the sky the Selection colour changes to the sky colour.
If I click on the Replacement colour box at the bottom of the Replace color dialog I can choose a colour to replace the sky colour. I have chose a nice bright red. But the sky is only a dull pinky/brownish colour. That is because the Saturation slider is only part way along.
If I turn the Saturation slider right up then the sky goes bright red - the colour I just selected from the colour picker.
Now I'll do the same thing, but I'll start with the sky as it looks straight after coming out of ACR. The sky is blown.
I do the same as before. I open up the Replace color dialog and click on the Selection colour box and then on the sky. Looking at the mask in the Replace colour dialog box we can see that the sky has been selected. I then click on the Replacement colour box and pick bright red. The sky is grey even though the Saturation slider is turned up high.
The only way I can get the blown sky to respond properly to the Replace colour dialog is to put some colour into it first, for example using the paint bucket. But there is no point using Replace colour once I have changed the sky colour because I have now done what I set out to do, which was to replace the sky colour!
--
Nick
gardenersassistant's collections on Flickr
The safest and most inclusive global community of photography enthusiasts. The best place for inspiration, connection, and sharing!
www.flickr.com
Mikedigi
Forum Pro
hi nick & spike !
i am in alonnisos Greece shooting JPEGs . Took fz200 & tz10, have not used fz at all, to my surprise. Still following your story ! Regards, mike
i am in alonnisos Greece shooting JPEGs . Took fz200 & tz10, have not used fz at all, to my surprise. Still following your story ! Regards, mike
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