P1000 Image Quality Concerns ?

JayDog

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Well in seeing the other thread of the excitement building up on the P1000 a few concerns were mentioned but to me the most important item was much missed.

Yep you guessed it. IMAGE QUALITY......

Does anybody know if they are using an improved chip in this camera or the old 2015 1/2.3 chip?

I be pretty disappointed if it is. Not that the p900 image quality sucks it is we are adding a lot longer lens to this camera. Usually from what I have seen the longer lenses have a give and take in color representation, sharpness ect.

I hate to see basically the same camera just a longer less sharp, less color pop and contrast lens ???

Am I the only person worried ?
 
I keep wondering whether I have the same chip in my Olympus SH-2 from 2015.

I also used the Panasonic ZS60 with an 18 MP chip the year after (was asked to set it up for a friend).

Between the two, the 16 MP chip in my SH-2 has less noise reduction applied in the firmware that goes with it. Camera originals with good dynamic range enlarge to 33x23 inch prints, and I can barely see the artifacts with a magnifier on the print ( I can on the screen when looking at them with a magnification equivalent to a 180 inch wide print).

Therefore I am also wondering - did Nikon decide that after 3 years this old 16 MP chip is still the best compromise in a 1/2.3 inch sensor?

Henry
 
I am not really sure ??? I do not want to be an alarmist but even the same size sensor or a better newer version can work wonders. I guess I am not asking for more mega pixels ect. just that the processing take advantage of all the new hardware.

It does scare me the larger lens. Seems like everytime they make longer lenses the first few are soft, lack contrast ect. I know 3000mm is a selling point ,but dang that is just insane !!

Hoping at 2000mm or less we can get a little pop and background blur. I was not impressed with some of the p1000 demo photos you know the ones with the horse. A few bird photos were acceptable thou.

Jay
 
I am not really sure ??? I do not want to be an alarmist but even the same size sensor or a better newer version can work wonders. I guess I am not asking for more mega pixels ect. just that the processing take advantage of all the new hardware.

It does scare me the larger lens. Seems like everytime they make longer lenses the first few are soft, lack contrast ect. I know 3000mm is a selling point ,but dang that is just insane !!

Hoping at 2000mm or less we can get a little pop and background blur. I was not impressed with some of the p1000 demo photos you know the ones with the horse. A few bird photos were acceptable thou.

Jay
I do moon shots with my travel zoom with a 1.7x tele-converter attached. So I had a look at the Nikon moon sample, which admittedly was NOT taken at full reach -

Apologies for using the highest quality, as published by Nikon.
Apologies for using the highest quality, as published by Nikon.

So from the full 4608x3456 resolution I did a 1600x1200 crop, and bumped up the contrast -

This one is reproduced here at reduced quality.
This one is reproduced here at reduced quality.

Somewhere in another P1000 thread I have a sample of my effort from my (Olympus) SH-2 + B300 travel zoom + 1.7x tele-converter, which shows I cannot get near the detail in the crop shown above.

Of course you can get even better results from current APS-C sensor cameras, and a lens to match. But you will pay more, and you will carry even heavier gear.

Someone else has played with the crocodile shot, which does appear to have been shot at maximum reach, and he is not complaining.

Henry

--
Henry Falkner - SH-2, SH-1, SH-50, SP-570UZ
http://www.pbase.com/hfalkner
 
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Well in seeing the other thread of the excitement building up on the P1000 a few concerns were mentioned but to me the most important item was much missed.

Yep you guessed it. IMAGE QUALITY......

Does anybody know if they are using an improved chip in this camera or the old 2015 1/2.3 chip?

I be pretty disappointed if it is. Not that the p900 image quality sucks it is we are adding a lot longer lens to this camera. Usually from what I have seen the longer lenses have a give and take in color representation, sharpness ect.

I hate to see basically the same camera just a longer less sharp, less color pop and contrast lens ???

Am I the only person worried ?
..for me, the reason why I'm not really worried, is because from the same sensor I had gotten nice images from both of my P610 & P900 cameras, and I expect either the same and maybe even better because from the raw support in the P1000..

..truthfully, often times with my P900 camera, I'm taking pictures edging at the 2000mm mark..

..and in guessing, when using the P1000 camera, I'll most likely be venturing into the 2000-2500mm equivalent focal lengths often..

..and probably will less often go to the full 3000mm, but will be glad the 3000mm is there if I ever need it..

..below is a pictures posted on the various Nikon websites (different countries), it's like the poster picture for the P1000 camera.. it doesn't look like it's full resolution, so can't really pixel peep.. but I like it..

..from Nikon for the P1000 camera..
..from Nikon for the P1000 camera..

***********

..Cheers..

--
Regards, John..
..down with naysayers!
[YI M1 camera, Olympus 17mm f/1.8 lens, firmware 3.0]
 
I am in agreement with you. Probably rarely use the 3000mm but other features look great. If they get the lens right under 2000mm I will be happy.

Jay
 
I would guess that it is the SAME sensor as on the P900.

Nikon is selling the new camera for $1000.

For $1000, I would pay for the 125X lens alone.

And that's not counting all the other improvements.

...RAW, hotshoe, external MIC, 4K video(!), etc.

Sometimes we expect too much. But I stand by my contention that even if Nikon priced the P1000 at $2000, I would still buy it as even at that price, it's still a bargain.

In 2018, there is no competition for a camera with those specs.

Now if Sony were bold, it would do a version of it's RX10 with a 125X zoom. Call it the RX10 "X".
 
BSI - CMOS sensor 4 processor
 
Bit of a newbie here, been thinking of getting the Nikon P1000 but I have a few questions first.

Don't get me wrong I'm in to photography but could see myself using the camera more as a telescope or like a pair of binoculars. My question is, will the image quality be as good as the YouTube video clips when actually using the camera in real life, through either the digital viewfinder or the LCD screen? I want the footage to be crystal clear in real time.
 
Bit of a newbie here, been thinking of getting the Nikon P1000 but I have a few questions first.

Don't get me wrong I'm in to photography but could see myself using the camera more as a telescope or like a pair of binoculars. My question is, will the image quality be as good as the YouTube video clips when actually using the camera in real life, through either the digital viewfinder or the LCD screen? I want the footage to be crystal clear in real time.
If you want a telescope or binoculars for$1K then get that instead of the P1000.



c728a3a724d14de28b4464ac463e38e1.jpg.png



14ef4fb26af34f0889dfe0da416bc940.jpg.png
 
But doesn't the P1000 offer more magnification than those? I will still take pics and videos but will the viewfinder and OLED screen offer the same detail in real person as you see on the YouTube videos of the camera in action?
 
Bit of a newbie here, been thinking of getting the Nikon P1000 but I have a few questions first.

Don't get me wrong I'm in to photography but could see myself using the camera more as a telescope or like a pair of binoculars. My question is, will the image quality be as good as the YouTube video clips when actually using the camera in real life, through either the digital viewfinder or the LCD screen? I want the footage to be crystal clear in real time.
https://www.dpreview.com/products/nikon/compacts/nikon_cpp1000/specifications

The P-1000 LCD resolution is 921,000 dots, twice of what I have on my Olympus SH-2. I can just make out the dots through my 'ClearViewer' magnifying attachment. In my perception, the P-1000 LCD may not show the individual dots made up of the three primary colors.

The advantage of the P-1000 LCD over a telescope is that it is fully articulating. I wished my SH-2 could do that when I shoot the moon almost directly overhead.

The P-1000 EVF 2,359,000 dot resolution should directly appeal to telescope users accustomed to the contortions that telescopes require.

Henry
 
But doesn't the P1000 offer more magnification than those? I will still take pics and videos but will the viewfinder and OLED screen offer the same detail in real person as you see on the YouTube videos of the camera in action?
The 12" Dob is 1500mm F5.0 vs the P1000 539mm F8 and is 167x with the included 9mm eyepiece.

499f302941e942989bf1122fc7d70d02.jpg
 
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But doesn't the P1000 offer more magnification than those? I will still take pics and videos but will the viewfinder and OLED screen offer the same detail in real person as you see on the YouTube videos of the camera in action?
The 12" Dob is 1500mm F5.0 vs the P1000 539mm F8 and is 167x with the included 9mm eyepiece.

499f302941e942989bf1122fc7d70d02.jpg
Would you carry that on a shoulder string? Maybe a better comparison would be with a portable telescope. It is horses for courses.

Off topic: We have paid the tax and the accountant. After this, Sandra just bought about US$ 700.- worth of silver. Then she pronounced 'You can have US$ 700.- worth of camera per year'. The P-1000 is not available yet in New Zealand. I may bring up the subject when the P-1000 is here.

Henry

--
Henry Falkner - SH-2, SH-1, SH-50, SP-570UZ
 
But doesn't the P1000 offer more magnification than those? I will still take pics and videos but will the viewfinder and OLED screen offer the same detail in real person as you see on the YouTube videos of the camera in action?
The 12" Dob is 1500mm F5.0 vs the P1000 539mm F8 and is 167x with the included 9mm eyepiece.

499f302941e942989bf1122fc7d70d02.jpg
Would you carry that on a shoulder string? Maybe a better comparison would be with a portable telescope. It is horses for courses.

Off topic: We have paid the tax and the accountant. After this, Sandra just bought about US$ 700.- worth of silver. Then she pronounced 'You can have US$ 700.- worth of camera per year'. The P-1000 is not available yet in New Zealand. I may bring up the subject when the P-1000 is here.

Henry


5ecd626b07a24041b367c1df41f3d422.jpg.png
 
Well in seeing the other thread of the excitement building up on the P1000 a few concerns were mentioned but to me the most important item was much missed.

Yep you guessed it. IMAGE QUALITY......

Does anybody know if they are using an improved chip in this camera or the old 2015 1/2.3 chip?

I be pretty disappointed if it is. Not that the p900 image quality sucks it is we are adding a lot longer lens to this camera. Usually from what I have seen the longer lenses have a give and take in color representation, sharpness ect.

I hate to see basically the same camera just a longer less sharp, less color pop and contrast lens ???

Am I the only person worried ?
You're right to be concerned, because here's the real truth. The sensor is comparable to a P900/B700.....the major difference is the longer focal length. The P1000 has the same sensor type as the B700....except it's 16MP instead of 20MP. That's it. And given that the B700 is only 2 years old, I doubt they've come out with a significantly improved sensor like you see every 4-8 years in camera sensors. So the sensor is likely not improved at all, and just a lower megapixel B700 sensor. Even if it was improved, we're talking maybe a 1/3rd of a stop or less at best, which you won't even notice.

Now as for the sharpness at zooms, here's a hard fact: Lenses do technically have megapixel limits. So one lens for example, might be able to resolve 50MP sharply with a 50MP camera.....use a 100MP camera with that lens and you'll still get more detail, but it won't be as sharp, meaning it's almost a waste to use a higher megapixel sensor.

Now here's the kicker.... when you factor in the fact that when you zoom, you are effectively using a smaller portion of the center of the lens....you are getting less megapixels worth of resolving power out of that lens! It's not a hard megapixel limit though, you can still resolve more detail, it just won't be as sharp, or noisier, diffracted, etc.

So if you have a 50MP sharp lens, and are zooming into only 50% of the center, you are effectively down to a 25MP resolving power. Let's keep in mind that even most expensive lenses that cost thousands of dollars, aren't even rated for 50MP.

The problem is, super zooms like the P1000 at long zoom use a WAY smaller area of the lens than 50%. We're talking about just a few millimeters in the center of the lens being used at longer zooms. That's a major factor why longer zooms have a degradation in quality and sharpness. There are other factors based on lens characteristics though, physics limits, etc.

That's another reason why the P1000 is only 16MP....if they put a 20MP+ sensor on it, the image quality would likely be indistinguishable or worse due to the megapixel limit of lenses, and they're definitely already past the megapixel limit of the lens at 16MP anyways.

When it comes to camera design, the amount of megapixels the lens can resolve isn't matched to the megapixel count the sensor can deliver, it's more like a "good enough" approach.

Another thing that degrades image quality is the atmosphere. It will reduce sharpness, and color detail, along with other effects like image distortion from atmospheric turbulence....like the wavy air you see on a hot day, or from a warm homes open window in winter.

Even 100ft can make a huge difference in image quality. Here's a good example video by the Northrup's that shows this directly:

But to get to the meat of it, this is the difference even a short distance can make on image quality, even with a whopping $10,000 500mm lens:

This 500mm shot was only taken at about 3 houses down! Not very far.
This 500mm shot was only taken at about 3 houses down! Not very far.

So while you can get more zoom with the P1000 on things closer, you'll still run into that lens megapixel limit that affects the quality of the image, and if you zoom on further away things, you'll just be adding up to potentially miles of atmosphere between you and your subject, further degrading image quality.

This next image is taken from a Nikon P1000 zoom test video:

This is an actual image from the P1000 at full zoom on a semi-far building in a city:

8efc256c3f4f4b12a8488d2736103d06.jpg.png

Not very appealing is it? Notice all of the distortion from atmospheric turbulence, how unsharp it is, and how washed out all the colors are.

So while 3000mm zoom is a first in consumer camera capability, it's not without its major downfalls, and it can be said fairly that it zooms too much for its own good, because unless you're zooming on something fairly close anyways, you are running into real hard environmental limits, and even when zoomed to closer objects, you're still running into those lens limits. And that's all before you consider the fact that it's still just basically a run of the mill 1/2.3 sensor, which also affects image quality.
 
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But doesn't the P1000 offer more magnification than those? I will still take pics and videos but will the viewfinder and OLED screen offer the same detail in real person as you see on the YouTube videos of the camera in action?
The 12" Dob is 1500mm F5.0 vs the P1000 539mm F8 and is 167x with the included 9mm eyepiece.

499f302941e942989bf1122fc7d70d02.jpg
Would you carry that on a shoulder string? Maybe a better comparison would be with a portable telescope. It is horses for courses.

Off topic: We have paid the tax and the accountant. After this, Sandra just bought about US$ 700.- worth of silver. Then she pronounced 'You can have US$ 700.- worth of camera per year'. The P-1000 is not available yet in New Zealand. I may bring up the subject when the P-1000 is here.

Henry
5ecd626b07a24041b367c1df41f3d422.jpg.png
And this where the P-1000 becomes competitive. Thanks for this reply.

Henry

--
Henry Falkner - SH-2, SH-1, SH-50, SP-570UZ
 
I would like something portable, is there any binoculars or scopes that can rival the P1000 for zoom?
 
Is there any binoculars or scopes that can match the P1000 for zoom?
The P1000 is a 4K superzoom camera with 125x zoom ration from wide angle to super telephoto and not the same as a binocular or scope.
 

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