arturo28mx
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Many people recommend Av or Tv for fill flash, but I have read P works well too. I'd like to know your experience, pros and cons.
many thanks
many thanks
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P mode for fill flash
- Thread starter arturo28mx
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It works great. I use it all the time on bright-sunny days with strong shadows and subjects that are
You can get more "fill" distance by kicking up the ISO too.
It makes a huge difference in shadow detail, and it's trivial. Flash exposure compensation adjusts power easily too.
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http://www.pbase.com/stevegrillo , Equipment on profile page
I always use P mode for fill and get excellent results. I still wonder why people complain about Canon flash system. I'm a dummy when it comes to flash photography and always got great results with the automatic modes.
EDIT: I useda 420EX on D60 and now 350D
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Didier
We don't inherit Earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children. Antoine de St Exupery.
EDIT: I useda 420EX on D60 and now 350D
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Didier
We don't inherit Earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children. Antoine de St Exupery.
balloonchasers
Senior Member
Using P Mode with a flash will ensure that your shutter speed is 1/60 or higher.
If the background is well lit then the flash will serve as fill.
If the background is dark the flash will lite the foreground(subject) and not worry if the background remains dark (will give you that "flashed" look that lot of pictures have)
Tv Mode will set the shutter speed to correctly expose the background and the flash will be used as fill.
Av Mode used when you want to set the amount of background blur. The shutter speed will be set to allow the aperature you have picked and correctly exposing the background while the flash will serve as fill.
(Try Av & Tv on a subjet/background situation and you will see the numbers are the same or very very close. Try it with P and the shutter speed will always be 1/60 or higher)
Very good description here: http://photonotes.org/articles/eos-flash/index2.html#confusion
P Mode works best for fill well when the background is well lit. Unless you want that "flashed" look which works quite well sometimes.
John
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Feel free to use any of these additional letters to correct the spelling of words found in the above post: a-e-t-n-d-i-o-s-m-l-u-y-h-c
If the background is well lit then the flash will serve as fill.
If the background is dark the flash will lite the foreground(subject) and not worry if the background remains dark (will give you that "flashed" look that lot of pictures have)
Tv Mode will set the shutter speed to correctly expose the background and the flash will be used as fill.
Av Mode used when you want to set the amount of background blur. The shutter speed will be set to allow the aperature you have picked and correctly exposing the background while the flash will serve as fill.
(Try Av & Tv on a subjet/background situation and you will see the numbers are the same or very very close. Try it with P and the shutter speed will always be 1/60 or higher)
Very good description here: http://photonotes.org/articles/eos-flash/index2.html#confusion
P Mode works best for fill well when the background is well lit. Unless you want that "flashed" look which works quite well sometimes.
John
--
Feel free to use any of these additional letters to correct the spelling of words found in the above post: a-e-t-n-d-i-o-s-m-l-u-y-h-c
Hung Pham
Senior Member
no text
As the previous poster very nicely explained, you can use the different modes for different situations. When I first got my 430EX flash and used it in Av mode, I thought something was wrong. The darn shutter speed dropped way to slow. I was used to my FL-40 on my Olympus cameras shooting at a much faster speed with the flash. It didn't make sense, I put a bigger flash on and the shutter speed seemed to drop.
Alas, the explanation is all related to what the camera is trying to achieve in Av mode. When the background is dark, it is trying to properly expose that background. It is is somewhat distant, the flash will not light it, only the naturally occuring light will eventually expose it enough. Perfect for say taking photos of someone at night standing in front of say a light monument. If I recall correctly, you can change the logic and have it expose for the foreground like in P mode by changing one of the custom functions.
Now that I understand the logic, and I wish to control my aperature, this is a very valuable function.
I agree however that many times in a somewhat dimly light situation, P mode will provide the perfect result, leaving the background not quite perfectly exposed, but fine.
Pear
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Alas, the explanation is all related to what the camera is trying to achieve in Av mode. When the background is dark, it is trying to properly expose that background. It is is somewhat distant, the flash will not light it, only the naturally occuring light will eventually expose it enough. Perfect for say taking photos of someone at night standing in front of say a light monument. If I recall correctly, you can change the logic and have it expose for the foreground like in P mode by changing one of the custom functions.
Now that I understand the logic, and I wish to control my aperature, this is a very valuable function.
I agree however that many times in a somewhat dimly light situation, P mode will provide the perfect result, leaving the background not quite perfectly exposed, but fine.
Pear
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dogboxelectric
Well-known member
In the custom functions you can set the Shutter for Balanced fill(default) or 250th, the latter is mostly used be photographers who are in a hurry, i find i first try AV if the shutter speed drops below a 30th i then go onto M keep my shutter at 30th to prevent camera shake(with 24-70 f2.8 lens) with the longer lens(70-200 f2.8) i try not to go below 90th. Hope this helps. PS. i also believed fo ra long time Canon and flash were not friends untill i got the 580EX spot on almost all the time.
balloonchasers
Senior Member
Re reading what I wrote there is one point that needs covering.
TV Mode allows you to set the shutter speed that you want and the camera sets the f-stop to ensure that the background is properly exposed. You can go as slow as 30 seconds and as fast as your camera will go (with a flash that has High Speed Sync of course).
Tv & Av are really the same thing.... it's just a matter of which dial you turn to change what. With a flash their both trying to properly expose the background while the flash is used for fill.
John
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Feel free to use any of these additional letters to correct the spelling of words found in the above post: a-e-t-n-d-i-o-s-m-l-u-y-h-c
TV Mode allows you to set the shutter speed that you want and the camera sets the f-stop to ensure that the background is properly exposed. You can go as slow as 30 seconds and as fast as your camera will go (with a flash that has High Speed Sync of course).
Tv & Av are really the same thing.... it's just a matter of which dial you turn to change what. With a flash their both trying to properly expose the background while the flash is used for fill.
John
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Feel free to use any of these additional letters to correct the spelling of words found in the above post: a-e-t-n-d-i-o-s-m-l-u-y-h-c
dogboxelectric
Well-known member
With the Flash set to Hi Speed sync for every stop you go over 250th you lose flash power by i think its half (stand to be corrected)
Elwood_98034
Leading Member
I don't think I have ever had a bad exposure with my 20D and 430EX when using the 430EX flash, except for some fairly consistent underexposure, when in either P, Av, or Tv. M is different - if I get really stoopid and make a big mistake.
WB is a different story, that is usually bad no matter what I do as I am often in mixed lighting, and Auto can't cut it, and manual WB is usually defeated by the existing conditions. Outside on a sunny day it is fine.
Which is why I usually shoot RAW when using the flash. Or I use my G7 which nails it EVERY SINGLE TIME on Auto everything! (Please someone from Canon read my last line.)
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Elwood.
Light! Give me light!
WB is a different story, that is usually bad no matter what I do as I am often in mixed lighting, and Auto can't cut it, and manual WB is usually defeated by the existing conditions. Outside on a sunny day it is fine.
Which is why I usually shoot RAW when using the flash. Or I use my G7 which nails it EVERY SINGLE TIME on Auto everything! (Please someone from Canon read my last line.)
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Elwood.
Light! Give me light!
dogboxelectric
Well-known member
I had the resident genius Canon Product manager tell me " The DSLR's underexpose to maintain highlight detail. it is done purposefully"
Psychic1
Senior Member
...dispite what the guru's here will say. Once a year I shoot a 3 day event with my 10D - 17/40L - 430EX set on P and every year they pay me and ask me to return next year because every picture meets and exceeds their expections.
...you know it's not my charming personallity :
...and my 1D - 70/200L - 550EX sits as a backup set to P , and the last time I checked my 1D was still rated as a professional camera.
...use what works best and don't worry about the Flash Police.
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...you know it's not my charming personallity :
...and my 1D - 70/200L - 550EX sits as a backup set to P , and the last time I checked my 1D was still rated as a professional camera.
...use what works best and don't worry about the Flash Police.
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Elwood_98034
Leading Member
That explains a lot dogbox, thanks. I posted recently about how Canon isn't that smart about another topic. More grist for the mill...
Now instead of doing something stupid like that, why can't they turn the Direct Print button into a RAW button or something that is actually useful to the masses. Or better still, have the body automatically (or as a CFn) shoot RAW + jpeg whenever you turn the flash on.
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Elwood.
Light! Give me light!
Brunobl
Senior Member
Hi Didier,
I have always wanted an EDIT feature on DPreview. Was it implemented and I missed it? I can't see an EDIT button or link.
Sorry for the off-topic comment, but I didn't want to miss the opportunity.
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Best regards,
Bruno Lobo.
http://www.pbase.com/brunobl
How did you get to edit your post?
I have always wanted an EDIT feature on DPreview. Was it implemented and I missed it? I can't see an EDIT button or link.
Sorry for the off-topic comment, but I didn't want to miss the opportunity.
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Best regards,
Bruno Lobo.
http://www.pbase.com/brunobl
Bryan
Senior Member
This came in a few weeks ago I think and used it yesterday for the first time. I think you can do this for up to about 5 minutes after you post - it is mentioned somewhere but could not immediately find it? Sorry.
Using Edit: yes it is in the lower box below your post - first line - messages an dused it to do this hi!
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Bryan
Canon five dee - twenty four to one oh five L IS and other bits left over from 20D
Using Edit: yes it is in the lower box below your post - first line - messages an dused it to do this hi!
--
Bryan
Canon five dee - twenty four to one oh five L IS and other bits left over from 20D
Brunobl
Senior Member
This is a feature that bad typists like myself have longed for. In more than a few occasions I publicly said this feature was dearly missed in this site.
So, also publicly...
Thanks for the big improvement, DPreview.
I, for one, truly appreciate it.
--
Best regards,
Bruno Lobo.
http://www.pbase.com/brunobl
So, also publicly...
Thanks for the big improvement, DPreview.
I, for one, truly appreciate it.
--
Best regards,
Bruno Lobo.
http://www.pbase.com/brunobl
Voyager13b
Senior Member
There are many reasons for wanting to establish a standard exposure/DOF/shutter speed for various groups of shots taken in the same light. The three examples I mentioned pretty much explain themselves.
On the other hand, if you need a little bit, or a lot of fill for a few shots here, a few there, and a few somewhere else, P mode is just fine. I use it often. A group shot of a baseball team facing the sun in P mode will render a pleasing look with no dark shadows, and no harsh contrast. Perfect fill flash. Also, the same team shot with the sun behind them will be lifted to a similar level of printability. It's a beautiful thing, and works very well. You just have to look at the numbers in your viewfinder before you press the button all the way, and make sure that both the shutter speed and aperture are suitable for the shot you are taking.
As others have pointed out, P mode will do auto fill flash within a pre-determined program range. If the overall scene is too dark, it will try to keep shutter speeds high enough to handhold, and use the flash for main lighting, rather than just for fill. There is much more to the design of P mode, but for a straight indoor/outdoor fill flash scenario, P mode works better than fine in situations with reasonable to harsh lighting levels, and you can ride the FEC wheel to nail the balance exactly as you would like to see it.
Again though, you should get comfortable shooting your camera in all modes, as if you are taking a series of shots in a single lighting situation, nothing beats ETTL fill and full manual camera control, or full manual flash/camera control during PP workflow.
I hope that adds to what has already been said.
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Voyager
On the other hand, if you need a little bit, or a lot of fill for a few shots here, a few there, and a few somewhere else, P mode is just fine. I use it often. A group shot of a baseball team facing the sun in P mode will render a pleasing look with no dark shadows, and no harsh contrast. Perfect fill flash. Also, the same team shot with the sun behind them will be lifted to a similar level of printability. It's a beautiful thing, and works very well. You just have to look at the numbers in your viewfinder before you press the button all the way, and make sure that both the shutter speed and aperture are suitable for the shot you are taking.
As others have pointed out, P mode will do auto fill flash within a pre-determined program range. If the overall scene is too dark, it will try to keep shutter speeds high enough to handhold, and use the flash for main lighting, rather than just for fill. There is much more to the design of P mode, but for a straight indoor/outdoor fill flash scenario, P mode works better than fine in situations with reasonable to harsh lighting levels, and you can ride the FEC wheel to nail the balance exactly as you would like to see it.
Again though, you should get comfortable shooting your camera in all modes, as if you are taking a series of shots in a single lighting situation, nothing beats ETTL fill and full manual camera control, or full manual flash/camera control during PP workflow.
I hope that adds to what has already been said.
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Voyager
arturo28mx
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Voyager, your words of wisdom are loud and clear. many thanks.
I didn't know that " P is for professional". I like that. Puts a whole new slant on it. I foolishly thought it was for program mode: )
I agree. We can get all wrapped up in pretenses, and I for one always stuck with A, T or M modes. But I will be more open to using the "Professional mode" letting the camera do its thing while I work on that composition. Ultimately, you've got to go with whatever works!
Pear
I agree. We can get all wrapped up in pretenses, and I for one always stuck with A, T or M modes. But I will be more open to using the "Professional mode" letting the camera do its thing while I work on that composition. Ultimately, you've got to go with whatever works!
Pear
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