Nikon Z9 - Buffer Issue Solved | Work Around ????

[tvstaff]

On a number of shoots when working with full size RAW & JPEGS at 15fps, 20fps and 30fps

1. the Z9 would freeze requiring a battery pull or card pull,
2. come back with a buffer error,
3. or the screen would go black and come back after 3- 5 seconds.

This was very frustrating, on shoots and caused a loss of critical shots, so I tried different makes and sizes of cards ranging from:

• ProGrade 650GB - Read 1700 / Write 1500 - 2 Different Cards
• AV Pro 1TB - Read 1785 / Write 1300 - 2 Different Card

I stopped shooting RAW & JPEG and just RAW and the issue has disappeared.

Just wondering anyone else has had this issue and used the same work around and if there is a solution. Perhaps I'm not using good enough cards? the ProGrades were not cheap.

Thank you,

Tony

 

[astirusty]

I stopped shooting RAW & JPEG and just RAW and the issue has disappeared.

For testing, what happens if you shoot JPEG only?

 

[PHXAZCRAIG]

On a number of shoots when working with full size RAW & JPEGS at 15fps, 20fps and 30fps

Can you be very specific about settings, so that we might try to repeat the issue? What can we do that always causes this? At 15fps, how many frames? Is full size raw the default lossless compressed? What jpg settings? Do you have jpgs going to a second card? Have you tried with an empty card? (Seems likely considering the testing you did.) Or is the card very full?

And, what firmware on the Z9?

1. the Z9 would freeze requiring a battery pull or card pull,
2. come back with a buffer error,
3. or the screen would go black and come back after 3- 5 seconds.

I've never had that, but I've not shot RAW+JPG for a long time. I've seen some weird symptoms over the years from dirty contacts or 3rd-party batteries.

This was very frustrating, on shoots and caused a loss of critical shots, so I tried different makes and sizes of cards ranging from:

• ProGrade 650GB - Read 1700 / Write 1500 - 2 Different Cards
• AV Pro 1TB - Read 1785 / Write 1300 - 2 Different Card

I stopped shooting RAW & JPEG and just RAW and the issue has disappeared.

I'm wondering if changing some settings around might change your symptoms? Like, how are the jpgs getting saved to which card? (Maybe switching primary slots makes a difference.)

Just wondering anyone else has had this issue and used the same work around and if there is a solution. Perhaps I'm not using good enough cards? the ProGrades were not cheap.

I've got a Z9, and a few cards. I have a Lexar 2TB and a Delkin Black 512GB in the camera now, and I have a smaller Delkin Black in the bag somewhere. How do I replicate the issue, or is it inconsistent?

 

[tvstaff]

I stopped shooting RAW & JPEG and just RAW and the issue has disappeared.

For testing, what happens if you shoot JPEG only?

I don't know... Funny I've never done that... I'll try tomorrow. Thanks!

 

[tvstaff]

On a number of shoots when working with full size RAW & JPEGS at 15fps, 20fps and 30fps

Can you be very specific about settings, so that we might try to repeat the issue? What can we do that always causes this? At 15fps, how many frames? Is full size raw the default lossless compressed? What jpg settings? Do you have jpgs going to a second card? Have you tried with an empty card? (Seems likely considering the testing you did.) Or is the card very full?

And, what firmware on the Z9?

Hi The Firmware is the latest, and it also happened with all the others.

The card being full or empty... Same thing.

I'm in M, and at max size for the RAWS and JPGS. I was at 1/320 - F2.8, 1100 ISO. Exposure Single Point w/Face Detection, Focus Continuous, using, Area Mode W-C1

I Did a photo shoot for Sports Illustrated yesterday, perhaps you can pull some EXIF off the shot? - Doing this from my cell phone, reduced the size.

1. the Z9 would freeze requiring a battery pull or card pull,
2. come back with a buffer error,
3. or the screen would go black and come back after 3- 5 seconds.

I've never had that, but I've not shot RAW+JPG for a long time. I've seen some weird symptoms over the years from dirty contacts or 3rd-party batteries.

Everything is all Nikon, no third-party

This was very frustrating, on shoots and caused a loss of critical shots, so I tried different makes and sizes of cards ranging from:

• ProGrade 650GB - Read 1700 / Write 1500 - 2 Different Cards
• AV Pro 1TB - Read 1785 / Write 1300 - 2 Different Card

I stopped shooting RAW & JPEG and just RAW and the issue has disappeared.

I'm wondering if changing some settings around might change your symptoms? Like, how are the jpgs getting saved to which card? (Maybe switching primary slots makes a difference.)

JPEG and RAWS to the same card. Happens in slot 1 and 2

Just wondering anyone else has had this issue and used the same work around and if there is a solution. Perhaps I'm not using good enough cards? the ProGrades were not cheap.

I've got a Z9, and a few cards. I have a Lexar 2TB and a Delkin Black 512GB in the camera now, and I have a smaller Delkin Black in the bag somewhere. How do I replicate the issue, or is it inconsistent?

--
Fashion, Fashion BTS, Fashion Editorial, Sports, Athlete Portrature, Editorial and Creative Portraits are my world. Shoot Canon, Nikon & Fuji. https://www.kissmykite.com/nyfw-photographers-tony-filson

 

[WWeber]

Which Prograde cards did you try? Cobalt or Gold?

I have Prgrade Cobalt 165GB and Nextorage B1 Pro 165GB used without any issues since FW3.01 shootig at up to 20fps RAW lossless compressed + JPG fine *

I shoot bursts of 1sec maximum, what burst length did you shoot when the blackout occurs? Maybe the buffer was full.

 

[tvstaff]

Settings on the right side. My camera settings are kind of similar 90% of the time. I shoot in vertical and horizontal. A lot from Tripod

. Looks like the files are even smaller here at 30MB, most of the time I'm over 40 and sometimes at 50 based on the shot.

On a number of shoots when working with full size RAW & JPEGS at 15fps, 20fps and 30fps

Can you be very specific about settings, so that we might try to repeat the issue? What can we do that always causes this? At 15fps, how many frames? Is full size raw the default lossless compressed? What jpg settings? Do you have jpgs going to a second card? Have you tried with an empty card? (Seems likely considering the testing you did.) Or is the card very full?

And, what firmware on the Z9?

Hi The Firmware is the latest, and it also happened with all the others.

The card being full or empty... Same thing.

I'm in M, and at max size for the RAWS and JPGS. I was at 1/320 - F2.8, 1100 ISO. Exposure Single Point w/Face Detection, Focus Continuous, using, Area Mode W-C1

I Did a photo shoot for Sports Illustrated yesterday, perhaps you can pull some EXIF off the shot? - Doing this from my cell phone, reduced the size.

1. the Z9 would freeze requiring a battery pull or card pull,
2. come back with a buffer error,
3. or the screen would go black and come back after 3- 5 seconds.

I've never had that, but I've not shot RAW+JPG for a long time. I've seen some weird symptoms over the years from dirty contacts or 3rd-party batteries.

Everything is all Nikon, no third-party

This was very frustrating, on shoots and caused a loss of critical shots, so I tried different makes and sizes of cards ranging from:

• ProGrade 650GB - Read 1700 / Write 1500 - 2 Different Cards
• AV Pro 1TB - Read 1785 / Write 1300 - 2 Different Card

I stopped shooting RAW & JPEG and just RAW and the issue has disappeared.

I'm wondering if changing some settings around might change your symptoms? Like, how are the jpgs getting saved to which card? (Maybe switching primary slots makes a difference.)

JPEG and RAWS to the same card. Happens in slot 1 and 2

Just wondering anyone else has had this issue and used the same work around and if there is a solution. Perhaps I'm not using good enough cards? the ProGrades were not cheap.

I've got a Z9, and a few cards. I have a Lexar 2TB and a Delkin Black 512GB in the camera now, and I have a smaller Delkin Black in the bag somewhere. How do I replicate the issue, or is it inconsistent?

--
Fashion, Fashion BTS, Fashion Editorial, Sports, Athlete Portrature, Editorial and Creative Portraits are my world. Shoot Canon, Nikon & Fuji. https://www.kissmykite.com/nyfw-photographers-tony-filson

 

[tvstaff]

Which Prograde cards did you try? Cobalt or Gold?

Cobalt

I have Prgrade Cobalt 165GB and Nextorage B1 Pro 165GB used without any issues since FW3.01 shootig at up to 20fps RAW lossless compressed + JPG fine *

I shoot bursts of 1sec maximum, what burst length did you shoot when the blackout occurs? Maybe the buffer was full.

I'm sure the buffer is full, the question is? What triggers it even when there are not enough shots to do so? I'f the Z9 is limited when shooting RAW and JPEG to the same card, I'd like to know what that limit is. I'm taking enough shots to get "Right Foot Down" stop and then back to get the next "RFD".

Perhaps 4 seconds waiting to see if I like what I see and shoot again. Could be 8 at times. But when the camera freezes it's horrible to have to pull the battery and miss critical shots.

I found a spot where my camera froze. All the data should be here. It's a JPEG that was shot with the NEF/RAW. It's not edited yet so it looks awful, but just as I'm waiting for her to open her eyes.... BAM frozen.




FROZE at about here! So EXIF data is a true picture of what the setting were



--
Fashion, Fashion BTS, Fashion Editorial, Sports, Athlete Portraiture, Editorial and Creative Portraits are my world. Shoot Canon, Nikon & Fuji. https://www.kissmykite.com/nyfw-photographers-tony-filson

 

[James Grove]

This does sound like a card issue, specifically when the card ages (write and rewrite cycles) the performance and management of the usable space in the card drops and this sometimes through a up error.

I stopped using the AB cards because I had errors, using Delkin and ProGrade only now.



I am not saying it’s the AB card just highlighting that, while the camera is complex and can lock up) this does sound more like a card issue.

How old are the cards in terms of use? as they do have a finite life

 

[Thom Hogan]

On a number of shoots when working with full size RAW & JPEGS at 15fps, 20fps and 30fps

1. the Z9 would freeze requiring a battery pull or card pull

We had a total of 36 (!) Z8 and Z9 cameras at my most recent two African workshops, and of course most of the time people were taking burst shots.

I've reported to Nikon that firmware 5.0 on the Z9 seems to have a "freeze" bug in it, and that information has made it to Japan for study. Three of us each had our Z9 lock up during a burst over the course of a month of intense photography, all showing the same symptoms and requiring the "battery out" to reset.

The problem is not card related, it is not battery condition related, it is not AF method related, it is not lens related, and a host of other "not related to setting" possibilities. That's the nice thing about having so many cameras photographing almost constantly: you can isolate out variables very quickly.

I'm not aware of any similar reports with firmware 4.0, so I have to wonder if a change in the latest release is causing the issue. It's highly intermittent—I took over a terrabyte of images with two Z9's during the month, and only encountered the problem once. Ditto the other two photographers. That's not to say that there isn't another setting we weren't using that wouldn't trigger it more often (none of us were using RAW+JPEG).

Again, Tokyo is aware of a possible issue and investigating.

 

[Restoc]

On 2 cameras Z9 with fw 5.0 i got some unexpected freezes along 18 days intense safari : screens came black and no actions on any buttons accepted. This comes after relaunching 20 raws consecutive bursts of few seconds each .

The camera recovers itself after 10 to 15 secs. The air temperature was pretty hot 42 -45° Celsius, the body probably around 50 °C but no temp warning have been displayed.

Ii can also say that even with 4.1 fw release some rare freeze could happen as well but i cannot say if it was the result due to some of my intensive uses or a very specific configuration: it happened no more than 4 to 5 times a year only.

My guess: somtehing somewhere in buffering when change of configuration are activated intentionnaly or not during long bursts : Nikon should fix stable any action with buttons or wheels during a burst.

(2*Cfexpress Angelbird 515 G 1700 )

 

[SKersting66]

I had this happen a few times when I was recording raw + jpeg fine to separate cards. But then testing showed that jpeg fine was slowing the recording/buffer down, even more than recording raw to both cards.

So I went to just recording raw files, and then after more testing I went to just recording the lowest level HE raw files. Haven't had any issues since... But I cannot say definitively what caused the issue, or what fixed it.

FWIW, HE to both cards is the second fastest method of backup. And in very demanding testing I was unable to find any negative to the base HE format. The fastest is raw + jpeg basic (the embedded thumbnail separately)... and I never had an issue using that mode either (but I also never needed the backup jpegs).

--
https://www.flickr.com/skersting

 

[tvstaff]

This does sound like a card issue, specifically when the card ages (write and rewrite cycles) the performance and management of the usable space in the card drops and this sometimes through a up error.

I stopped using the AB cards because I had errors, using Delkin and ProGrade only now.

I am not saying it’s the AB card just highlighting that, while the camera is complex and can lock up) this does sound more like a card issue.

How old are the cards in terms of use? as they do have a finite life

The ProGrades 650's are 16 months old and the AV Pro 16 1TB is 13 months old.

I emailed both companies.

AV Pro talks about a firmware upgrade on their site so I gave them the SN of the specific card ( Angelbird.com is their website ) I'll see if tech support gets back to me.

The AV Pros were expensive, I expected more than 16 months out them. We'll see.

Best, Tony

 

[tvstaff]

On a number of shoots when working with full size RAW & JPEGS at 15fps, 20fps and 30fps

1. the Z9 would freeze requiring a battery pull or card pull

We had a total of 36 (!) Z8 and Z9 cameras at my most recent two African workshops, and of course most of the time people were taking burst shots.

I've reported to Nikon that firmware 5.0 on the Z9 seems to have a "freeze" bug in it, and that information has made it to Japan for study. Three of us each had our Z9 lock up during a burst over the course of a month of intense photography, all showing the same symptoms and requiring the "battery out" to reset.

The problem is not card related, it is not battery condition related, it is not AF method related, it is not lens related, and a host of other "not related to setting" possibilities. That's the nice thing about having so many cameras photographing almost constantly: you can isolate out variables very quickly.

I'm not aware of any similar reports with firmware 4.0, so I have to wonder if a change in the latest release is causing the issue. It's highly intermittent—I took over a terrabyte of images with two Z9's during the month, and only encountered the problem once. Ditto the other two photographers. That's not to say that there isn't another setting we weren't using that wouldn't trigger it more often (none of us were using RAW+JPEG).

Again, Tokyo is aware of a possible issue and investigating.

Thanks Thom, I feel a little better now.

Do you think "Nikon Japan" can arrange for the Sports Illustrated model shots I missed to be taken again? ROFL.

Hope you're well, Tony

 

[James Grove]

I wonder if lock ups are heat related or some weird bug that occurs during burst photography.

The issue is always being able to relocate it so you can bug fix or trouble shoot, when it appears so random it’s likey hard to find the underlying cause?

 

[ghostfox_1]

I wonder if lock ups are heat related or some weird bug that occurs during burst photography.

The issue is always being able to relocate it so you can bug fix or trouble shoot, when it appears so random it’s likey hard to find the underlying cause?

All of the similar errors I've seen about and heard about (that have provided the information) is it seemed like the camera got stuck trying to write to the card. Often, this is a card issue and changing it resolves the issue.

This may not be the case this time, and might be something changed in the camera. I haven't had an issue, but I also haven't shot in a month (real life issues...).

 

[Thom Hogan]

Do you think "Nikon Japan" can arrange for the Sports Illustrated model shots I missed to be taken again? ROFL.

That's actually why I reported it immediately and escalated it as best I can. There are a lot of Z9 photographers going to be at the Olympics soon, and this particular lockup can make you lose critical images. No one wants that to be the story of Paris.

 

[Thom Hogan]

All of the similar errors I've seen about and heard about (that have provided the information) is it seemed like the camera got stuck trying to write to the card. Often, this is a card issue and changing it resolves the issue.

It clearly happens in the write sequence, but given that I can document it happening on three different card brands of three different sizes and speeds, no, it's not a card issue.

This is changing my mind about "card issues." Why? Because when it happened to me—I was the first—I changed cards and kept photographing, and everything was fine. Then it happened to a second with a different card brand/size/speed. We tried the same thing. Then it happened to the third and I asked them to continue using the card they had in. We all had the same "recovery" experience, so it's not the card.

 

[ghostfox_1]

All of the similar errors I've seen about and heard about (that have provided the information) is it seemed like the camera got stuck trying to write to the card. Often, this is a card issue and changing it resolves the issue.

It clearly happens in the write sequence, but given that I can document it happening on three different card brands of three different sizes and speeds, no, it's not a card issue.

My post wasn't about this issue, and was a response to the comment, as the second part made clear (which was about this specific issue).

This is changing my mind about "card issues." Why? Because when it happened to me—I was the first—I changed cards and kept photographing, and everything was fine. Then it happened to a second with a different card brand/size/speed. We tried the same thing. Then it happened to the third and I asked them to continue using the card they had in. We all had the same "recovery" experience, so it's not the card.

In this case, it appears not. However a lot of the self reported issues likely have been card related, as once the card is changed the issue never comes up again (and is often due to sandisk cards, from what I remember seeing).

Card issues still exist, regardless if this is related to that or not.

 

[James Grove]

Hi Tony,

The replies in the thread seem to indicate some form of software issue in the camera, but could be card related in terms of camera software. Either way I hope Nikon Japan can get to the bottom of it and fix it in the next firmware release.