"Misery Threads"

Satyaa

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Our friend Tom used that title for his response in one of the recent threads. I found it interesting.

I asked myself, why? What is wrong with cameras these days? Are buyers unhappy? Are people sitting with money on their hands and not finding a good camera to buy?

If anything, I am finding that recent cameras were too good for their own good!

Cameras produced in the past 10+ years are really good. The oldest I currently own is D7200 that is nearly 13 years old. I traded my 2006 XTi for the $600 rebate on G9ii few months ago. It was still working fine within its ISO limits.

Yes, we do hear posts about a camera failing once in a while, but they are small in number in the overall picture. There are also some models that are notorious for things like oil spills and weak tripod sockets. That's just sad for specific models but not a reflection on the big picture. Usually, complaining threads are more in number than appreciative threads. They also serve as PSA sometimes.

With cameras so good, people don't spend money unless (1) they are forced to replace a camera; or (2) if something very interesting comes along that screams "I MUST have it". That doesn't happen with every new model, but after two or three. The most recent that comes to mind is the OM-3. Very bold attempt by OMDS. In other brands there are examples like the Zf, the A7C series or the GFX100RF. And they are expensive too.

For everything else, we (should say, I) find what's missing from the newly announced camera for not buying it. The fact is, we already have what we need. Manufacturers are trying, but they can only do so much when they have 6% share (or less) in the overall camera market. I admire some of the new cameras from several brands, but I can't buy them all.

Those threads sound like gloom and doom but the fact is, it's hard to make new tech that stands out and blows our minds. When something does come about, it's not going to be cheap. I can easily list few things that are better in my G9ii over my GH5ii. That didn't really tempt me until the $600 rebate came about and at the same time, I got a good deal on selling my GH6.

Because so many people are still buying new cameras even if they may not need it, the rest of us are able to find used cameras that they trade in. That's a win for both of us.

Until the next thing comes along that blows our minds, let's enjoy what we use. Hopefully we buy and the companies keep making what we like. Even if we can't buy every model, let's appreciate what's good about it. At least I will.

--
See my profile (About me) for gear and my posting policy. My profile picture is of the first film camera I used in the early 80s, photo credit the internet.
 
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Many of these threads seem to be “I cannot buy a camera in this mount that has all the features I want at the price I’m willing to pay”.

Often, there is no exact description of the features, so we are left wondering why the new cameras are described as “nothing new”.

The only things I cannot buy in MFT are:

1) Global shutter - don’t need it

2) Resolution > 40 Mpix - need it sometimes

3) Shallow DoF at a distance in a context - need it sometimes

4) DR at base ISO - makes life easier and HDR does degrade resolution

In general, MFT offers options that are lighter and cheaper than my other chosen mount, so…

Only (2) is capable of improvement at a price I’m willing to pay.

The OM bodies have very affordable fast readout sensors, really a standout enabling technology. OM don’t quite have class leading AF. 20Mpix is acceptable for a fast readout sensor.

Within the same mount we have OEMs who focus on stills, video and drones.

If I had a concern, it is that the OEMs between them are no longer focussed on excellent lenses at the smallest sizes. Sony are really focussed there, but that comes at a price.

Each of us has our own take on what matters. I prefer smaller cameras and lenses. Cameras are getting larger and small lenses are very expensive (for the same shooting envelope). The market for small kit is actually pretty small. The G9ii is under the weight of a standard camera body. The OM3 is lighter than many APSC bodies with less functionality.

We do have the EP7, G100D and OM5. All of them are both light and cheap for what they are. Higher resolution - well that would be (2). Just get a Fuji and live with the other compromises (if they are compromises for you).

Andrew

--
Infinite are the arguments of mages. Truth is a jewel with many facets. Ursula K LeGuin
Please feel free to edit any images that I post
 
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Many of these threads seem to be “I cannot buy a camera in this mount that has all the features I want at the price I’m willing to pay”.
+1
Often, there is no exact description of the features, so we are left wondering why the new cameras are described as “nothing new”.
+1
...

The OM bodies have very affordable fast readout sensors, really a standout enabling technology. OM don’t quite have class leading AF. 20Mpix is acceptable for a fast readout sensor.
+1
...

Andrew
Thanks.
 
As I coined the term I should note that "Happy-Slappy"threads are just as bad.

Nothing wrong with commenting on good or bad features, strutting our stuff and suggesting improvements.

The trouble is that threads suggesting the onset of the death of M4/3 as a system can quickly dissolve into a misery thread where all is doom and glom and suggestions that the best way to avoid disaster is to rodent-like scurry down the hawser to the safety of FF dry land.

The relative merits and demerits of comparison between FF and 4/3 are well known and obviously oft canvassed. But surely suggestions on what system we could use are for each of us to decide individually without doom and gloom suggesting that we had best hurry up before the good stuff of M4/3 dries up. Thereby creating a self-fulfilling prophesy.

The merits can be debated solely on camera/lens size comparisons where regular M4/3 kit is compared to the smallest entry level kit that FF can provide. Or a possible lust for a Sony A7cr which I also might admire secretly but cannot make myself afford.

Like the question asked "do you do weddings?" is always followed by "how much $?" if the answer is in the affirmative. A simple foray into another mount system can easily morph into a subsequent big spend on lenses for that system. But if you presently only have a few lenses then perhaps it is within commercially accepted bounds.

As someone who has overspent on lenses wherever my camera lust has settled I could hardly invest in any Sony camera body for any length of time before I had to buy a few lenses to go with it - just a few, or maybe four or five and make them standouts ....

I learned my lesson well when I seriously overspent on Canon EF lenses only to realise that Canon intended me to keep buying their dslr body updates or my lenses would become orphans. Saved by the electronic adapter bell. I have used the EF lens collection as a useful entrée to try out Sony E/FE Panasonic L-Mount and M4/3 without having to buy native mount lenses (not even a kit lens). Well the M4/3 was half hearted and the 12-32 kit zoom became endemic as it came with many of my M4/3 bodies. However I liked what I saw and backslid into some excellent lenses for M4/3. After the kit lens my first two lenses for the first GM1, which was my opening gambit in M4/3, were the Nocticron 42.5/1.2 IS and the Olympus 20/2.0 Black Limited. When Tom pops his cork he really pops it. How many of us would initially kit up a GM1 with those two additions? For starters no less.

So I ended up with a great selection of M4/3 lenses and EF lenses - "no more, no more", he says ...." temptation is something hard to resist".

I should note that I have had a side habit of buying "interesting" legacy MF lenses as well. Some of us will never learn. I may buy a S1RII in time but there is no rush - but I will be using it with adapted EF and Legacy MF lenses - no ambition to lock myself into yet another collection of mount specific otherwise incompatible lenses.

M4/3 images are quite good enough for my purposes and I enjoy using the kit from the GM5 through G100 to the G9 & G9II. I cover the base quite well and am not stuck with on style/size camera body.
 
I currently own 2x OG G9's (the second copy arrived 3 weeks ago), G100, OM-5, and E-M10 IV. I am very happy with the value, features, and variety afforded with all of the bodies - they allow me to choose how I want to shoot based on my destination and mood. Compared with my previous system the variety is exhilarating.

No misery here.
 
2) Resolution > 40 Mpix - need it sometimes

3) Shallow DoF at a distance in a context - need it sometimes

4) DR at base ISO - makes life easier and HDR does degrade resolution
I agree with all these, but if I were to rank importance for my shooting, it's probably 3>4>2.

3 is really a bummer with the system. It's not even something that can't be solved either, but it is unlikely to be solved. A modern version of the 200/1.8, or a 250/2 would be perfect for me.
 
2) Resolution > 40 Mpix - need it sometimes

3) Shallow DoF at a distance in a context - need it sometimes

4) DR at base ISO - makes life easier and HDR does degrade resolution
I agree with all these, but if I were to rank importance for my shooting, it's probably 3>4>2.

3 is really a bummer with the system. It's not even something that can't be solved either, but it is unlikely to be solved. A modern version of the 200/1.8, or a 250/2 would be perfect for me.
I just ordered Viltrox 35mm f1.2 LAB to do this. Context for me is a lot wider than 200mm MFT.

My solution is a second FE kit.

A
 
Our friend Tom used that title for his response in one of the recent threads. I found it interesting.

I asked myself, why? What is wrong with cameras these days?
Perhaps Micro 4/3rds just isn't cool anymore. Fuji has stolen their crown! The X (Trans) factor!

bdb631d1d7a14330b7f968d5ea1ef5ff.jpg

1f198c4911154cada24341be3870a45d.jpg
Are buyers unhappy? Are people sitting with money on their hands and not finding a good camera to buy?

If anything, I am finding that recent cameras were too good for their own good!

Cameras produced in the past 10+ years are really good. The oldest I currently own is D7200 that is nearly 13 years old. I traded my 2006 XTi for the $600 rebate on G9ii few months ago. It was still working fine within its ISO limits.

Yes, we do hear posts about a camera failing once in a while, but they are small in number in the overall picture. There are also some models that are notorious for things like oil spills and weak tripod sockets. That's just sad for specific models but not a reflection on the big picture. Usually, complaining threads are more in number than appreciative threads. They also serve as PSA sometimes.

With cameras so good, people don't spend money unless (1) they are forced to replace a camera; or (2) if something very interesting comes along that screams "I MUST have it". That doesn't happen with every new model, but after two or three. The most recent that comes to mind is the OM-3. Very bold attempt by OMDS. In other brands there are examples like the Zf, the A7C series or the GFX100RF. And they are expensive too.

For everything else, we (should say, I) find what's missing from the newly announced camera for not buying it. The fact is, we already have what we need. Manufacturers are trying, but they can only do so much when they have 6% share (or less) in the overall camera market. I admire some of the new cameras from several brands, but I can't buy them all.

Those threads sound like gloom and doom but the fact is, it's hard to make new tech that stands out and blows our minds. When something does come about, it's not going to be cheap. I can easily list few things that are better in my G9ii over my GH5ii. That didn't really tempt me until the $600 rebate came about and at the same time, I got a good deal on selling my GH6.

Because so many people are still buying new cameras even if they may not need it, the rest of us are able to find used cameras that they trade in. That's a win for both of us.

Until the next thing comes along that blows our minds, let's enjoy what we use. Hopefully we buy and the companies keep making what we like. Even if we can't buy every model, let's appreciate what's good about it. At least I will.

--
See my profile (About me) for gear and my posting policy. My profile picture is of the first film camera I used in the early 80s, photo credit the internet.
 
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I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. I think the biggest problem people have with M43 is that there are less new releases than on other systems. M43 is the most mature mirrorless system and has the largest lens catalog. Other companies are scrambling to come out with new lenses and bodies for their proprietary formats. People see more activity and “life” from other formats and they feel more hopeful and optimistic.

This is really the wrong way to think about it. Choose the format and the system that best fits your needs and wants, not what is shiny, or new, or popular. I think if people went with more rational rather than emotional choices, M43 would be a lot more popular.

A FF sensor is roughly 4 times the area of a M43 sensor. All else being equal that is a 2 stop light gathering advantage and a shallower depth of field, which can be positive, detrimental, or inconsequential.
 
Our friend Tom used that title for his response in one of the recent threads. I found it interesting.

I asked myself, why? What is wrong with cameras these days? Are buyers unhappy? Are people sitting with money on their hands and not finding a good camera to buy?

If anything, I am finding that recent cameras were too good for their own good!
Honestly, with the introduction of the OM-3 I can't imagine myself buying another camera any time soon. The OM-1 Mark II fits my "professional needs" almost perfectly. The OM-3 fits my casual photography needs pretty much perfectly.

This is good for me, but maybe not good for OM System. They will need a major advancement to get me to upgrade - and that will be a Global Shutter. Who knows if there will ever be a GS MFT camera? Seems unlikely to happen.

The other thing they could do is introduce an OM-1-styled body with a Full Frame L-Mount sensor which, again, seems incredibly unlikely since they're at a place where they're really trying to focus on what they've got. And to the best of my knowledge, they're not even part of the L-Mount Alliance. But that would be a great replacement for my S5 II, which I use exclusively for my "professional" event work.
 
People who obsess about gear forget that it's actually about shooting!
You need to enjoy your gear to go out and shoot. m4/3 has ceded quite a bit of the compact and advanced market to Sony and Fuji. Since we are never getting another GM, GX or Pen body, I moved on.

I spend most of my time between using GR bodies and an X-T50. Having said that, I am finding the 40 MP X-Trans sensor a bit of a bear to work with. I might just end up with the GR3x and a Sony full frame high resolution body.

It’s disappointing because I would’ve preferred to stay with m4/3, but such is life.
 
Our friend Tom used that title for his response in one of the recent threads. I found it interesting.

I asked myself, why? What is wrong with cameras these days? Are buyers unhappy? Are people sitting with money on their hands and not finding a good camera to buy?

If anything, I am finding that recent cameras were too good for their own good!
This is why photographers are using alternative cameras for their creativity. Film cameras has becomes more popular over the years as the performance of new mirrorless cameras becomes more efficient. They want to get the fun back into photography,

While flagship mirrorless bodies improve (not so much now, see the successors to the R5, A1 etc), photographers want an alternative toy to get their juices flowing and my one is still the GX85. Sadly, Panasonic at the moment has not updated the line for M43. I just love using compact bodies and primes.

--

 
Tom I sure would like to know what adapter you are using for Canon EF to M43. Appreciate any suggestions.
 
Tom I sure would like to know what adapter you are using for Canon EF to M43. Appreciate any suggestions.
An old comparison but it would still hold. Multiple adapters over two mount systems.

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/64144177

For M4/3 Metabones are most widely useful but Viltrox are less expensive and cover most recent build lenses.

There are others that I have not tested, but some of them are of more limited compatibility.

Only Metabones seem to have done the hard yards on trying to reach 100% compatibility.
 
nt
 
It could be argued otherwise but where M4/3 stands out is the great variety of sizes and types of camera bodies that have been offered.

This allows us to tailor or shooting needs not only by lens types but also by the camera body we have chosen to use.

Traditionally those that have pursued the craft of making photographic images have tended to use one camera body, serially updated when they believe that it is necessary, and multiple lenses.

When we see pro-shooters on assignment it is often with multiple "cameras" each with a lens that serves a different purpose. This serves the combined purpose of swapping camera bodies where necessary and avoiding swapping lenses which might be both time efficient and overcome location difficulties. Often simultaneously.

This became very apparent to me when juggling the exchange of two large lenses for my dslr body years ago. It had been wet and there was no place to lay any of the gear down to effect the lens swap.

I quickly came to see the GM series bodies as tiny, very capable bodies that could serve the multiple camera purpose without the huge mass of multiple dslr bodies hanging about.

We can do this with any camera but there is a point where smallest is most beautiful. Furthermore the GM series had identical firmware and interface to make swapping seamless.

However it does not end here - there are other camera body types that have been offered for M4/3 that are more tuned to specific uses. Consider that other mount systems tend to concentrate on a very limited range of camera body types which come in endless serial updates which are carefully fitted into every capability and price point that their market share dictates. But the sheer variety that M4/3 has offered seems quite unique.

We might lament the "end" of cameras such as the GM5, GX8, E-M1x and Pen-F - but they were made and if we really had needed this type of camera we at least had the opportunity of buying an example - or at least could buy one second hand for some time after the new supply had disappeared from the shelves. This is not really a disadvantage as I have found that M4/3 gear is long-lived and reliable in its usefulness. I am not at all unhappy with the present condition and performance of my GM5 camera bodies 10+ years down the track.

We might ramble on about our wonderful GX8 and ask why it has not been re-issued but surely have to admit that they are still enjoying the wonderful old obsolete thing that still is usefully working in their hand ....
 
2) Resolution > 40 Mpix - need it sometimes

3) Shallow DoF at a distance in a context - need it sometimes

4) DR at base ISO - makes life easier and HDR does degrade resolution
I agree with all these, but if I were to rank importance for my shooting, it's probably 3>4>2.

3 is really a bummer with the system. It's not even something that can't be solved either, but it is unlikely to be solved. A modern version of the 200/1.8, or a 250/2 would be perfect for me.
I just ordered Viltrox 35mm f1.2 LAB to do this. Context for me is a lot wider than 200mm MFT.

My solution is a second FE kit.

A
I have the 45/1.2, and I find the background separation to still be extremely weak. There is hardly any background separation when compared to the 85/1.4 on my FF setup.

83f9245bf8d646e1a4b8e83b58a4be59.jpg

This really isn't what one would expect from a 1.2 lens.
 
However it does not end here - there are other camera body types that have been offered for M4/3 that are more tuned to specific uses. Consider that other mount systems tend to concentrate on a very limited range of camera body types which come in endless serial updates which are carefully fitted into every capability and price point that their market share dictates. But the sheer variety that M4/3 has offered seems quite unique.
🍷 Unique as there's no other digital mirrorless ILC offered varieties of bodies, purposes as m4/3.

Fuji is closeish with their X-A / X-M, X-Pro X-T, X-H I've had one of each except X-H. Then Gfx.
still enjoying the wonderful old obsolete thing that still is usefully working in their hand ....
Invigorated reignited by over decade older years older m4/3s I've picked up this year 2025 after I gave up photography during lockdown sold all my mirrorless cameras.

I've picked up 7 x m4/3 cameras since January 2025 (£421 total) each a different body each for a different purpose.

*G80 2016 aka G85 picked up last week for nature wildlife mostly adapted manual lenses. G80 oled evf ibis aa filterless 4k photo. Has issue with shutter easy workarounds with touchscreen shutter, or remote cable shutter.

View attachment 3701793

*GH2 2011 picked up 2months earlier £45 market stall, sold it. G80 repalces GH2.

*GX7 2014 for urban london with Sigma 10-20mm on Viltrox 0.71. Love GX7 tilt up evf my favourite urban camera because of this. GX7 included silver Pany 14-42mkII as business seller said for parts not working. Was nearly mint condition !

View attachment 3701794

*GF3 2011 curvy small body my poor mans GM1, for manual adapted small lenses although I get a kick outta placing larger manual adapted lenses on GF3. Swapped it for Red G3. Looking for White GF3 for night visibility urban london.

View attachment 3701795

*G3 2011 curvy body in Red and White one of these will be gifted to someone they will choose the colour. The other will have Pany 45-200 on it for urban london architecture, bits of detail, G3 evf and swivel screen handy for these. Red G3 was a swap with Black Gf3.

View attachment 3701796

* E-Pl7 2014 + Oly 45/1.8 my portrait combo. E-Pl7 cracked screen bits of screen missing seller said doesn't work, works fine including touchscreen works properly. This is the combo returned me to my photogrpahy January this year 2025.

View attachment 3701797

::::

421.30 including postage.

In a decade will prolly pick up OM-3 and or a Gfx with minor damage issues with them. 😹

--
Photography after all is interplay of light alongside perspective.
 

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