rabbit601
Well-known member
Anyone have any suggestions/comments about using a Microdrive Card on a D200. If not what would you suggest as a really good/fast CF card?
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Microdrives.
- Thread starter rabbit601
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Peter iNova
Guest
I know people who use them and love them and who have had no problem with them, never having dropped one in their life, and I know people who have dropped them three feet onto a leather seat cushion and never could use that card again. It's a hard disk, after all.
Personally, whenever I've dropped a CF card, it was inevitably over a hard floor, sidewalk, stage, street or deck. No matter what I do, I don't seem to be physically capable of not having CF cards fall from my fingers several times every year. It's as if a conspiracy of my subconscious was saying "Hey, you're standing on a marble floor. Let's go fiddle with that CF card right now... Whoops!"
If you are one of those people who never, ever drop anything unless into your lap, buy the MicroDrive.
-iNova
--
http://www.digitalsecrets.net
Personally, whenever I've dropped a CF card, it was inevitably over a hard floor, sidewalk, stage, street or deck. No matter what I do, I don't seem to be physically capable of not having CF cards fall from my fingers several times every year. It's as if a conspiracy of my subconscious was saying "Hey, you're standing on a marble floor. Let's go fiddle with that CF card right now... Whoops!"
If you are one of those people who never, ever drop anything unless into your lap, buy the MicroDrive.
-iNova
--
http://www.digitalsecrets.net
Tony Rundle
Forum Enthusiast
I've used a microdrive for a couple of years or so without a problem, but I'm told the power drain is more for a microdrive. If this is so, this would point to a solid state card.
Can anyone confirm this?
Can anyone confirm this?
Question_Man
Leading Member
Simply put… If you want to risk your photos to save a few bucks then buy a microdrive.
No doubt they work most of the time, but are not as dependable as a device that has no moving parts. With the current cost of CF cards I see no reason to use one.
No doubt they work most of the time, but are not as dependable as a device that has no moving parts. With the current cost of CF cards I see no reason to use one.
Supposedly SanDisk Extreme II cards are currently the fastest available or the D200.
This is based upon the fact that the D200 supposedly uses the same CF circuitry that the D2X has.
Look here for CF performance on the D2X: http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=6007-7697 - according to the data, the microdirive isn't even in the same league speedwise.
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-----Bear
This is based upon the fact that the D200 supposedly uses the same CF circuitry that the D2X has.
Look here for CF performance on the D2X: http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=6007-7697 - according to the data, the microdirive isn't even in the same league speedwise.
--
-----Bear
sfisher
Senior Member
I've used the IBM microdrives (now Hitachi) since the beginning and have yet to have a single one fail.
1) Do I drop them? No. I don't drop my camera lenses / filters either. I treat them like any other piece of my camera.
2) Can they fail? Yes, so can the Flash cards, I've had one of them fail from Lexar so far.
3) Are they more fragile? Yes I suppose, They do have certain limitations like altitudes of less than 10,000 ft. and try not to drop them. see above.
4) Are they slower? Yes but does it matter? the D200 and the D2s have large buffers. It all depends if you plan to constantly fill the buffer faster than it can make room for more shots. If you shot a lot of sports action you might. But you have to shoot a lot of shots in a very short time and then need to shoot another burst of shots in a very very short time to see it. I normally hardly ever fill the buffer.
5) If prices were close to the same for either the Microdrive or the Flash card which would I get? The Flash Card.
6) If the lost photos would be catastrophic as in lost of business, for more that the price of the flash card? I'd use the Flash Card, and be sure to off load them quickly, and often.
Again I've never had a failure with a single Microdrive yet, and I'm still using a 1GB card I bought 5(?) years ago with my cp8800 then used in the CP500 and D100 (added 2 2GB cards) and as backup card for my D2X. ( I now using 2 4GB Microdrives as Primaries in my D2X)
-Steve
1) Do I drop them? No. I don't drop my camera lenses / filters either. I treat them like any other piece of my camera.
2) Can they fail? Yes, so can the Flash cards, I've had one of them fail from Lexar so far.
3) Are they more fragile? Yes I suppose, They do have certain limitations like altitudes of less than 10,000 ft. and try not to drop them. see above.
4) Are they slower? Yes but does it matter? the D200 and the D2s have large buffers. It all depends if you plan to constantly fill the buffer faster than it can make room for more shots. If you shot a lot of sports action you might. But you have to shoot a lot of shots in a very short time and then need to shoot another burst of shots in a very very short time to see it. I normally hardly ever fill the buffer.
5) If prices were close to the same for either the Microdrive or the Flash card which would I get? The Flash Card.
6) If the lost photos would be catastrophic as in lost of business, for more that the price of the flash card? I'd use the Flash Card, and be sure to off load them quickly, and often.
Again I've never had a failure with a single Microdrive yet, and I'm still using a 1GB card I bought 5(?) years ago with my cp8800 then used in the CP500 and D100 (added 2 2GB cards) and as backup card for my D2X. ( I now using 2 4GB Microdrives as Primaries in my D2X)
-Steve
dannv
Senior Member
puhlease. leather seat cushions? give me a break. i've dropped mine to concrete multiple times -- including breaking off pieces of plastic -- and they still work fine. anecdotes are just that, anecdotes.
double PUHLEASE. CF is better than MD because solid state is always better than moving parts? every 5th grader knows that, right? the problem with this theory is it ignores the realities of engineering and manufacturing processes. high volume users can tell you MDs fail at only slightly higher rates than CF. theories are just that, theories. poor mfg process can make hay of perfectly good theories.
the bottom line: for high volume, the cost/gb of MDs can't be beat. for medium and low volume, CF is a better choice. ...dav
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don't wait for technology -- it won't wait for you
double PUHLEASE. CF is better than MD because solid state is always better than moving parts? every 5th grader knows that, right? the problem with this theory is it ignores the realities of engineering and manufacturing processes. high volume users can tell you MDs fail at only slightly higher rates than CF. theories are just that, theories. poor mfg process can make hay of perfectly good theories.
the bottom line: for high volume, the cost/gb of MDs can't be beat. for medium and low volume, CF is a better choice. ...dav
--
don't wait for technology -- it won't wait for you
There are different generations of microdrives...
The new 3k8 8GB Microdrives that are shipping now in small quantities have a new technology that shuts the drive down if it is dropped (detects free fall, 10 cm fall is enough to stop the drive) and so the drive is probably as secure as any CF card. Also CF cards can not tolerate too many writes in one position, e.g. if you clear the card always after use and use only the first 10-30% of the card, you rather soon end up writing over 1000 times to same area, and the CF can not tolerate much more than something over 1000 writes before the risk of errors rises rapidly. With hard drives there is not such a problem, at least not so fast.
You may read the new drop proof system here:
http://www.hitachigst.com/tech/techlib.nsf/techdocs/3F6AF8812AB89C678625706700534B1A
Ok, with CF cards the re-writing is not a bad problem, but for persons using USB-memory keys for storing word documets the auto save function may destroy a card in few weeks (if you open a ms word or excel document directly from the memry key and have auto save on, lets say with a 3 or 5 min setting it makes 12-20 writes per hour = 50 hours and you have 1000 writes per "spot").
If I drop my camera (never have dropped any of my cameras), it is more likely it brakes than any microdrive inside it. So I will probably buy a 8GB Microdrive to be used as the only memory for my preordered D200. That can take pretty many RAW-files without RAW-compression;-)
I do understand those wanting to have many cards for security rasons, I prefer a single card + extra care with the camera and then daily backups burned to DVD-R on a laptop.
--
Osku
The new 3k8 8GB Microdrives that are shipping now in small quantities have a new technology that shuts the drive down if it is dropped (detects free fall, 10 cm fall is enough to stop the drive) and so the drive is probably as secure as any CF card. Also CF cards can not tolerate too many writes in one position, e.g. if you clear the card always after use and use only the first 10-30% of the card, you rather soon end up writing over 1000 times to same area, and the CF can not tolerate much more than something over 1000 writes before the risk of errors rises rapidly. With hard drives there is not such a problem, at least not so fast.
You may read the new drop proof system here:
http://www.hitachigst.com/tech/techlib.nsf/techdocs/3F6AF8812AB89C678625706700534B1A
Ok, with CF cards the re-writing is not a bad problem, but for persons using USB-memory keys for storing word documets the auto save function may destroy a card in few weeks (if you open a ms word or excel document directly from the memry key and have auto save on, lets say with a 3 or 5 min setting it makes 12-20 writes per hour = 50 hours and you have 1000 writes per "spot").
If I drop my camera (never have dropped any of my cameras), it is more likely it brakes than any microdrive inside it. So I will probably buy a 8GB Microdrive to be used as the only memory for my preordered D200. That can take pretty many RAW-files without RAW-compression;-)
I do understand those wanting to have many cards for security rasons, I prefer a single card + extra care with the camera and then daily backups burned to DVD-R on a laptop.
--
Osku
The new 8GB Microdrive is faster than "80x" CF cards, so it is not that slow anymore...
"Sustained data rate up to 10.0 MB/sec"
Extra Sensory Protection (ESP):
"2000G operating shock, Softens the impact of a fall / drop, Makes every shock a non-operating shock"
Not bad...
--
Osku
L
Lars
Guest
I had a 1GB microdrive that worked fine for 3.5 years and stopped working a month ago. I have now switched to a CF card, but I am not sure wether that will work longer.
Lars
Lars
Bill Moss
Senior Member
I've got a 4gb Hitachi that I took from a Muvo a couple years back and it still works fine even though I have dropped it a few times from waist level to hard floor, including once on some stairs where it tumbled two or three steps. Works fine.
I disagree with those who would depend on it (or any single card) as the only storage for a session - I think one day the odds will catch up to them. I like to use multiple cards to be safe. I use the md and a couple of 1gb SanDisks. Plus, when I fill one, I download it to my 20gb storage device (without deleting the card till I download it again at home)
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http://www.pbase.com/mngatorguy
I disagree with those who would depend on it (or any single card) as the only storage for a session - I think one day the odds will catch up to them. I like to use multiple cards to be safe. I use the md and a couple of 1gb SanDisks. Plus, when I fill one, I download it to my 20gb storage device (without deleting the card till I download it again at home)
--
http://www.pbase.com/mngatorguy
chidalgo
Active member
avoid Microdrives.
now there're plenty of excelent CF cards with more GBs and better transfer speeds.
Microdrives are mechanical: bad performance under extreme conditions, low durability, and you can't throw a Microdrive to your washing machine and expect to live. But a CF card does live! (personal experience ;-) )
--
chidalgo
now there're plenty of excelent CF cards with more GBs and better transfer speeds.
Microdrives are mechanical: bad performance under extreme conditions, low durability, and you can't throw a Microdrive to your washing machine and expect to live. But a CF card does live! (personal experience ;-) )
--
chidalgo
Keith Aitken
Veteran Member
Rabbit601
Whether CF or MD has been a hotly debated subject for several years around here.
People tend to rely upon their own experience. I have been a relatively
happy MD user for 5 years, a 340Mb and a 1Gb. The 340 Mb failed after
about 4 years of use. The 1Gb still cooks along happily. I believe that
the 340mB may have failed because I repeatedly took it above 10,000 ft.
Altitude reduces the air pressure inside the MD, which can increase the friction
and wear between the moving parts . . .
HOWEVER, the 1GB also enjoyed mountain trips and is still working
The idea of an 8Gb MD scares me. How many would trust 1000 +
images to one source ? RAW storage might be the main reason to
have such a large capacity card.
Also, remember that the D200 probably is not faster than about 15X
in storing, despite using an 80x MD or CF ( someone correct me on the
D200 write speed ). The advantage of a "fast" CF or MD is that when you
use it in a peripheral device, card-reader or similar, the card speed will
be fully used . . .
Unless you have other purposes planned for a microdrive, I would not
worry about its speed because the D200 may not take full advantage
of say, a 40x card.
Do some searching here at dp, re microdrives. There is a huge amount
of opinion available.
Good luck,
Keith
Whether CF or MD has been a hotly debated subject for several years around here.
People tend to rely upon their own experience. I have been a relatively
happy MD user for 5 years, a 340Mb and a 1Gb. The 340 Mb failed after
about 4 years of use. The 1Gb still cooks along happily. I believe that
the 340mB may have failed because I repeatedly took it above 10,000 ft.
Altitude reduces the air pressure inside the MD, which can increase the friction
and wear between the moving parts . . .
HOWEVER, the 1GB also enjoyed mountain trips and is still working
The idea of an 8Gb MD scares me. How many would trust 1000 +
images to one source ? RAW storage might be the main reason to
have such a large capacity card.
Also, remember that the D200 probably is not faster than about 15X
in storing, despite using an 80x MD or CF ( someone correct me on the
D200 write speed ). The advantage of a "fast" CF or MD is that when you
use it in a peripheral device, card-reader or similar, the card speed will
be fully used . . .
Unless you have other purposes planned for a microdrive, I would not
worry about its speed because the D200 may not take full advantage
of say, a 40x card.
Do some searching here at dp, re microdrives. There is a huge amount
of opinion available.
Good luck,
Keith
Remember the speed of CF or Mircodrive not only matters when writing to them, it also matters when you offload them to your computer.
For instance, with USB 2.0 or Firewire , The Lexar 80x cards taker about half the time to offload as compared to the 40x cards. The Sandisk Extreme III cards are even faster. When you shoot many gigs in a day, the time does matter. 5 gigs at 40x is about an hour - at 80x it's only about a half hour. That's 500 NEFs from a D100. With the D200, it'll be 8 gigs for the same amount of NEFs and would take even more time.
So yes, speed matters.
--
-----Bear
Actually based on what we've heard, the D200 should write faster than 80X. It may take (of the current cards) a Sandisk Extreme III to get full benefit of the D200 capability with CF cards.
Heck, even the D100 is faster than 15X.
--
-----Bear
Vincent Jacobs
Well-known member
... is pretty much the fastest CF card out there, allowing a little more than one image (@ 10 MP) per second transfer rate. This should be more than enough even for the 5fps burst rate expected with the D200 (because of the buffer).
Expect to pay about 100 USD per GB before rebates (for instance, at B&H or similar reseller). Hard to beat.
The Micro-Drives, even though they used to be the capacity standard-bearer, tend to be slower (although I've not seen exactly how much slower). Also, because micro-drives are hard drives, the risk of failure is a bit higher than with flash media.
I'd go with fast CF media for the D200.
I've had one 1G micro-drive and 3 512M CF's, but will buy larger cards very soon...
Expect to pay about 100 USD per GB before rebates (for instance, at B&H or similar reseller). Hard to beat.
The Micro-Drives, even though they used to be the capacity standard-bearer, tend to be slower (although I've not seen exactly how much slower). Also, because micro-drives are hard drives, the risk of failure is a bit higher than with flash media.
I'd go with fast CF media for the D200.
I've had one 1G micro-drive and 3 512M CF's, but will buy larger cards very soon...
Sandisk Extreme III is noticeably faster with a D2X. And actually if you're talking NEF files, it'll take closer to 2 seconds per image to a Lexar 80X card for 10MP images.
--
-----Bear
michaeladawson
Forum Pro
A valid point but the performance numbers I have seen do not agree with the specs you state above. I posted on this before and I forget the site I got the figures from (reputable, however). But 80x cards are not twice as fast as 40x cards from the numbers I have read. In fact, not even close.
If your business depends on speed and throughput then the faster cards are undoubtedly worth it. For many of us I think the speed is money not well spent. I can easily shoot a gig or more in a day. I come home, I put the microdrive in it's slot, I watch tv or eat dinner. Maybe I come back to the computer to look at my pictures. More likely I go to bed. Maybe I'll get to the photos next week when I have some spare time.
onlinetracker
Forum Enthusiast
MTBF for Microdrives falls into the 300,000 write area, where MTBF for Compact Flash falls in the 4,000,000 Hour arena.
I wouldn't hold my pictures on a cushion of air for no amount of monetary savings. A small spinning disk with heads riding on a cushion of air are subject to various environmental issues... humidity, air pressure, heat, cold.
Yes, CF/SD cards are subject to them too [minus air pressure] but less so than any hard drive.
I wouldn't hold my pictures on a cushion of air for no amount of monetary savings. A small spinning disk with heads riding on a cushion of air are subject to various environmental issues... humidity, air pressure, heat, cold.
Yes, CF/SD cards are subject to them too [minus air pressure] but less so than any hard drive.
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