Low light using micro 4/3

[Angela Meaney]

Hi

I have the Lumix G9. Mostly I use it in open areas in the daytime but I do walk through woodlands and struggle with underexposed images which are so dark they are not salvageable.



if the SS speed was 125/250 in a wooded/low light area and F stop was 4-6.3 (highest on my 100-400 lens 4 at 100, 6.3 at 400) with iso on auto (limited to 12800/6400) should this camera be able to take a shot that’s not completely underexposed?

Thank you. I now have another question. I went out in the day and I thought the light was okay but my images of a highland cow were so soft. I had SS 800 - the cow was stationary so if I was at F8, would I have avoided the softness if more light had come in, had I used say 250/320 SS?



as you can tell I struggle with the lighting exposure triangle.



Any advice greatly appreciated.



thanks

 

[lehill]

Post an unedited photo that shows the problem. Even if the photo looks 100% black or white, it still contains EXIF information about camera settings which is a great help when diagnosing photo problems.

Imaging editing software often removes a lot of this EXIF info. This is why an unedited photo works best for us.

--
Lance H

 

[Boris_The_Spider]

Hi

I have the Lumix G9. Mostly I use it in open areas in the daytime but I do walk through woodlands and struggle with underexposed images which are so dark they are not salvageable.

if the SS speed was 125/250 in a wooded/low light area and F stop was 4-6.3 (highest on my 100-400 lens 4 at 100, 6.3 at 400) with iso on auto (limited to 12800/6400) should this camera be able to take a shot that’s not completely underexposed?

This one I don't think people can answer as it really depends on how much or little light was available, whether the subject is illuminated and also metering mode. Generally what I'd do is take the camera out and take test images and slowly work up to longer exposures and see where the sweet spot is.

Thank you. I now have another question. I went out in the day and I thought the light was okay but my images of a highland cow were so soft. I had SS 800 - the cow was stationary so if I was at F8, would I have avoided the softness if more light had come in, had I used say 250/320 SS?

This one folks are also going to struggle without a picture but the softness could be caused by a bunch of stuff. Things like lens filters, camera movement and even air temperature can make a difference.

Doing my best to answer this though, if the cow wasn't moving rapidly then the problem likely isn't the shutter speed as 1/800 is pretty quick for stationary or slow moving objects. My first guess would be that either the focus was off or you were shooting from a distance and the camera moved slightly. If you have a filter I'd try removing it. You can also have an image look soft due to air movement on images that are a long way away.

as you can tell I struggle with the lighting exposure triangle.

Any advice greatly appreciated.

thanks

Below is a link to Simon DeEntremonts YouTube channel. If I remember rightly he has some good videos about this sort of stuff and it's presented in a way that is easy to understand.

https://www.youtube.com/@simon_dentremont/videos

All the best.

 

[Martin_99]

Hi

I have the Lumix G9. Mostly I use it in open areas in the daytime but I do walk through woodlands and struggle with underexposed images which are so dark they are not salvageable.

if the SS speed was 125/250 in a wooded/low light area and F stop was 4-6.3 (highest on my 100-400 lens 4 at 100, 6.3 at 400) with iso on auto (limited to 12800/6400) should this camera be able to take a shot that’s not completely underexposed?

If you are at 1/125s f6.3 and ISO12800, it's pretty dark, I would personally just pack my gear, as no nice photo will happen.

But of course you have an option to make properly exposed photo - raise the ISO limit, slower the shutter speed or both.

Thank you. I now have another question. I went out in the day and I thought the light was okay but my images of a highland cow were so soft. I had SS 800 - the cow was stationary so if I was at F8, would I have avoided the softness if more light had come in, had I used say 250/320 SS?

Do you describe your illness to doctor by email, or just go and show the issue to him? Do the same here and share problematic photo. Too many questions occur, which could be easily answered by showing the photo.

as you can tell I struggle with the lighting exposure triangle.

Any advice greatly appreciated.

thanks

 

[Chris R-UK]

Hi

I have the Lumix G9. Mostly I use it in open areas in the daytime but I do walk through woodlands and struggle with underexposed images which are so dark they are not salvageable.

if the SS speed was 125/250 in a wooded/low light area and F stop was 4-6.3 (highest on my 100-400 lens 4 at 100, 6.3 at 400) with iso on auto (limited to 12800/6400) should this camera be able to take a shot that’s not completely underexposed?

Thank you. I now have another question. I went out in the day and I thought the light was okay but my images of a highland cow were so soft. I had SS 800 - the cow was stationary so if I was at F8, would I have avoided the softness if more light had come in, had I used say 250/320 SS?

as you can tell I struggle with the lighting exposure triangle.

Any advice greatly appreciated.

thanks

I assume that you were trying to shoot wildlife in a wood in poor light. That is difficult with any camera, so you have to compromise and you will be limited as to what targets you can shoot.

The problem that you have is that there is not enough light reaching the sensor. The light is controlled by 3 things:

• The shutter speed - the slower the shutter speed, the greater the amount of light reaching the sensor. So 1/50 lets in 10 times as much light as light as 1/500. Shutter speed is a problem with long telephoto lenses because you are often shooting moving targets. In low light you just have to accept that some targets will be impossible to shoot. If you are shooting stationary targets you have the option to shoot off a tripod at, say, a shutter speed of a second or slower.
• The aperture - the wider the aperture (the lower the f/ number), the more light reaches the lens. So f/5.6 lets in twice as much light as f/8. If you are shooting wildlife in low light you have no choice - use the smallest f/ number which will be the largest aperture. You can almost always sacrifice depth of field for a higher shutter speed.
• The amount of ambient light in the scene. It can be varied, for example by avoiding the darker areas of the wood or by only shooting on a very bright day.

If, after you have made your settings, the camera shows you that you need an ISO of 12,800 to get a bright enough image, then you are going to have a lot of noise in the image. Go back and use a slower shutter speed or just accept that you can't shoot in the current light. If the ISO is, say, 800 or 1600, then you will be able to get a pretty good image with not too much noise. ISO is just an indication of how much amplification the camera is going to have to use to get a bright enough image. The smaller the amount of light reaching the sensor, the greater the visible noise.

Ignore the so called Exposure Triangle - it is a hangover from film days and is simply wrong in a digital camera. Concentrate on getting sufficient light reaching the sensor.

 

[Angela Meaney]

Thank you I will take a look.



The cow was stationary and I had the camera on a post without a filter.



I will post one of the images from the SD card when I get time this week.



thank you

 

[Angela Meaney]

Thank you I will get one of the images out this week.

 

[Angela Meaney]

Thank you

 

[Angela Meaney]

Two of the soft cow (bull) it was quite a clear day so I don’t get why it wasn’t clear It was around 2pm not dark

also screenshot showing settings I used

 

[Chris R-UK]

You have very high noise levels in both those shots. That is what is making them look so soft.


For that kind of slow moving target 1/200 would be fine. That would give you 4x more light hitting the sensor and much lower noise. The ISO would only have to be 1600.

If the light is really low, you may be able to get by with 1/100 of a second and take lots of shots in the hope that one is sharp.

Increasing the aperture to f/6.3 would give even more light on the sensor and lower noise.

 

[Angela Meaney]

You have very high noise levels in both those shots. That is what is making them look so soft.

For that kind of slow moving target 1/200 would be fine. That would give you 4x more light hitting the sensor and much lower noise. The ISO would only have to be 1600.

If the light is really low, you may be able to get by with 1/100 of a second and take lots of shots in the hope that one is sharp.

Increasing the aperture to f/6.3 would give even more light on the sensor and lower noise.

 

[number_5]

Chris was right, the SS could be slower to lower the ISO. This is something you might want to play with and see how far you can push the SS before camera blur. It depends on camera + lens combination. I can push my OM-1 @ 420/5.6 down to 1/40s and still get keepers. When shoot slow SS, put it in high burst mode and you might be able to catch a few without the blurs.

Also noticed your exposure comp is +1 and +2 EV. You might want to set it to 0 to drop the ISO farther. This could also be part of reason why the woodland produced dark images (under exposed).

 

[Angela Meaney]

Yeah I had been messing around thinking if I turned EV up it would brighten the image.



after Sundays photos I did turn that off thank you

and yes I will experiment

 

[alcelc]

You have very high noise levels in both those shots. That is what is making them look so soft.

For that kind of slow moving target 1/200 would be fine. That would give you 4x more light hitting the sensor and much lower noise. The ISO would only have to be 1600.

If the light is really low, you may be able to get by with 1/100 of a second and take lots of shots in the hope that one is sharp.

Increasing the aperture to f/6.3 would give even more light on the sensor and lower noise.

Many thanks. That does make sense.

I have been testing low light shots (just because it’s evening) on my dogs indoors with 100/125 and have been pleasantly surprised. Think I got hung up somewhere thinking fast SS somehow helps with detail but if it’s not moving I need to start thinking differently.

Angela

Agreed with Chris that you don't need 1/800" for a feeding cow.

SS determines the amount of light and stability of handholding/motion bur of target which could mean sharpness of the output.

DUAL IS of Panasonic camera could be very effective and in my experience I could expect 5+ stops of effective stabilization easily on a good handholding skill. Theoretically 1/25" should be good for a steady image for a 400mm M43 lens (eq 800mm eq FoV of FF). Plus a slow moving feeding cow, depending on your handholding technique you have a wide choice on SS from 1/800" ~ 1/25" for a potentially lower ISO.

And the right exposure could give you a lowest noise image to start with. Noise can soften an image (affect fine detail). From the downloaded originals, it seems that noise should have damaged your output.





I would not expect the sort of noise from a G9.

I would examine the SOOC JPG. If SOOC JPG would look better, you might have to review your RAW conversion. As per my current RAW converters for my Panasonic cameras, Silkypix, DXO Optical Pro & Adobe DNG converter + ACR, their default setting would introduce more grainy and observable noise to various degree vs SOOC JPG. Hence, different RAW converter (on their default) might affect the output.

On the SOOC JPG from my lower end Panasonic models (G9 is too big for me to use M43 system), generally the noise, if any, should come in very smoothly. The noise of your posted samples would be unacceptable to me.

--
Albert
** Please forgive my typo error.
** Please feel free to download my image and edit it as you like **
About my
G85: https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/63025800
GX850/GF9: https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/65326127
GX9: https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/67648667

 

[Martin_99]

Two of the soft cow (bull) it was quite a clear day so I don’t get why it wasn’t clear It was around 2pm not dark
also screenshot showing settings I used

1. Photo is overexposed, your setting +1EV is too much.

2. You ISO is unnecessary high, creating softer image. This is because your shutter speed is too high, you don't need 1/800s for standing bull. 1/200s should be enough to get image without blur, lowering the ISO to 1600.

3. Shooting RAW - in what program and how you edit your photos? Editing could save the image, but also destroy it. For beginner could be better option to start with JPG.

 

[number_5]

Yeah I had been messing around thinking if I turned EV up it would brighten the image.

There's a cost on brighten the image. Since the SS and the aperture were fixed, you paid for it with the ISO/noise.

after Sundays photos I did turn that off thank you

and yes I will experiment

Find something you're comfortable with, and push it a bit harder. I'm comfortable with my setup at 1/40s, but in a pinch, I do 1/6s. Fairly low keepers, but that's where the high burst rate comes in, by playing the number.

 

[drj3]

You have very high noise levels in both those shots. That is what is making them look so soft.

For that kind of slow moving target 1/200 would be fine. That would give you 4x more light hitting the sensor and much lower noise. The ISO would only have to be 1600.

If the light is really low, you may be able to get by with 1/100 of a second and take lots of shots in the hope that one is sharp.

Increasing the aperture to f/6.3 would give even more light on the sensor and lower noise.

+1

If the OP wants to take an image at 1/800 to be sure there is no movement blur, okay. However, follow that with a couple of images at 1/400 and a couple more at 1/200 and finally a couple at 1/100. In general with animals grazing 1/200 would be sufficient and 1/100 would often work.

With low light I start with higher shutter speeds and the progressively lower them for the best shot. All three bears in the attached are moving when this image was taken at 1/80 (focused on the mother bear).



--
drj3

 

[Angela Meaney]

Hi

Thanks. It is unacceptable to me too. I have taken some lovely clear photos. Just now and then I get images like this so I am going to use a lower SS reduce auto iso and see how I get on.



I was very disappointed when I saw these raw images I have to say.



These images were direct off SD card saved to phone and I had to open in LR on iPhone to export back to images as jpeg … but they looked similarly bad in raw on phone.



I’ll attach a better photo to show I can sometimes get







good shots.



thank you.

 

[Angela Meaney]

Lovely photo

 

[lehill]

Hi

I have the Lumix G9. Mostly I use it in open areas in the daytime but I do walk through woodlands and struggle with underexposed images which are so dark they are not salvageable.

if the SS speed was 125/250 in a wooded/low light area and F stop was 4-6.3 (highest on my 100-400 lens 4 at 100, 6.3 at 400) with iso on auto (limited to 12800/6400) should this camera be able to take a shot that’s not completely underexposed?

Thank you. I now have another question. I went out in the day and I thought the light was okay but my images of a highland cow were so soft. I had SS 800 - the cow was stationary so if I was at F8, would I have avoided the softness if more light had come in, had I used say 250/320 SS?

as you can tell I struggle with the lighting exposure triangle.

Any advice greatly appreciated.

thanks

I saw the highland bull photos and the discussion with the others.

The wooded area settings listed above do indicate very low light conditions (darker than inside a typical home). Any camera will have trouble with an f/4-6.3 lens while trying to maintain a high shutter speed - the ISO must be set very high to get a bright photo. In these conditions it's time to switch to a faster lens (f/2.8, f/1.8, f/1.4, etc), add light to the scene with a flash, wait for better weather or better light.

Lightroom for iOS did remove some EXIF data but there's enough left to show you're shooting in manual mode. Is manual mode really necessary? Manual works great in some special conditions but is not so great for general shooting.

Your camera can display histogram, zebra, and highlight ("blinkies") exposure aids. These can help with your triangle struggle.

--
Lance H