Longterm storage of backup HDD : Waterproof container?

[Sebastian Cohen]

So, I am doing an archival backup of EVERYTHING. This will be the "Doomsday Vault Backup" and it won't get backed up further or connected. It is going on a 3.5" HDD, no case. FYI, I will still be doing my regular backup routine with my other drives as normal.

Lately I have been thinking about how I store my backup drives, in general. I know they are airtight so air moisture variations shouldn't really be an issue. Problem is, they usually end up all over the place. Drawers, bottom of, cardboard boxes, usually bottom of.

So I've been thinking of sticking them into one of those plastic IKEA airtight refrigerator boxes. The type has this rubber seal which would also make them waterproof. It is an added protection AND it will be easier to find. I can also put in a note with what/where etc so I don't have to connect it if I don't remember. Sounds like I have a ton of discs, but you would be surprised how confused you can get with just a couple when you find one 4 years later.

SO, long question short. I will be creating a permanent "environment" in that box and I am wondering if or how that can be negative for the drive when the outside fluxtuates?

I am planning on throwing in one or two of those silica gel pouches as well, should negate any negative variations?

This will prob just lie there for 3-4 years.

I am aware of that the lubrication might dry out in the bearings, but this has not been an issue so far.

 

[Sean Nelson]

Drives aren't truly airtight, they have a small "breather" port to equalize air pressure inside the drive to that of ambient temperature. Without the valve, there would be a lot of stress on the metal cover if you took the drive up a mountain or in an aircraft (which is pressurized to the equivalent of 8000 feet above sea level).

I've bought rectangular plastic food containers for my backup drives - I wrap the drives in bubble wrap so that they fit snugly into the containers. It lets met handle the drives without worrying about damaging the connectors or circuit board traces.

I can't see any downside to the drive in terms of sealing in a container. They're packaged at the factory in an anti-static envelope that seems pretty airtight, so I take that as an endorsement that they don't need "fresh air" as it were.

The one thing I would caution you on is that leaving a drive sitting on the shelf for years is risky. Drives fail for all sorts of reasons and if the data is important enough to you that you want to protect it the way you're describing then you really need to do two things:

• Have multiple copies of it, ideally in physically separate locations, and
• Check the drive regularly to make sure the data is still readable.

You need to do the latter so that if one of your copies dies, you can recreate it from another copy of the data before it also dies. If you've made two copies of your data and they've been sitting on the shelf untouched for years, you could well actually only have one readable copy or, heaven forbid, none.

I checksum all of the files on my backup drives and verify that they're still consistent just before I use them for a new backup - that way I have confidence that the backups are actually readable and the drives aren't degrading. For drives in archival storage I'd recommend doing this every 6 months to a year.

Checking the files on the drive has an active benefit - by reading every data block on the drive the drive checks the ECC data for those blocks to detect errors. If blocks are degrading gradually, the drive can often recover the data despite errors in some of the bits. When the drive reads a block with excessive errors it will move the data to a spare block instead. So not only are you determining that the data is readable, you're also "repairing" any marginal data on the drive.

 

[a_c_skinner]

I have heard it said that HDDs need spinning up from time to time to ensure they will work.

I have no idea if this is true.

Drives in different places seems a better bet.

 

[Philip Eihuyar]

So, I am doing an archival backup of EVERYTHING. This will be the "Doomsday Vault Backup" and it won't get backed up further or connected. It is going on a 3.5" HDD, no case. FYI, I will still be doing my regular backup routine with my other drives as normal.

Lately I have been thinking about how I store my backup drives, in general. I know they are airtight so air moisture variations shouldn't really be an issue. Problem is, they usually end up all over the place. Drawers, bottom of, cardboard boxes, usually bottom of.

So I've been thinking of sticking them into one of those plastic IKEA airtight refrigerator boxes. The type has this rubber seal which would also make them waterproof. It is an added protection AND it will be easier to find. I can also put in a note with what/where etc so I don't have to connect it if I don't remember. Sounds like I have a ton of discs, but you would be surprised how confused you can get with just a couple when you find one 4 years later.

SO, long question short. I will be creating a permanent "environment" in that box and I am wondering if or how that can be negative for the drive when the outside fluxtuates?

I am planning on throwing in one or two of those silica gel pouches as well, should negate any negative variations?

This will prob just lie there for 3-4 years.

I am aware of that the lubrication might dry out in the bearings, but this has not been an issue so far.

Another option for archiving that will last longer than 3-4 years is 'M' disks (DVD) which, although limited in data space, will be accessible for many decades. Because of the limited storage amount of 'M' DVD disks, it could be used for only the very important data.

 

[Rambow]

Btw, what bearings are we discussing here, the hdds? Don't worry about those, the hdds components are better sealed than you think.

Open one up and see how clean and neat everything is inside, those platters spin with almost no resistance even when the drive is 10-15 years old. They are sealed anyway, and i assume the grease used is the best for this application.

Worry about data retention, not the quality of the storage solution.

 

[Mystery member]

So, I am doing an archival backup of EVERYTHING. This will be the "Doomsday Vault Backup" and it won't get backed up further or connected. It is going on a 3.5" HDD, no case. FYI, I will still be doing my regular backup routine with my other drives as normal.

Lately I have been thinking about how I store my backup drives, in general. I know they are airtight so air moisture variations shouldn't really be an issue.

As already mentioned, they aren't airtight.

I'd be concerned that storage in an airtight plastic box would encourage condensation, depending on the humidity of the enclosed air. I guess that silica gel packs might help here.

The strategy of keeping multiple copies is probably preferable to having a single "Doomsday Vault".

My important stuff occupies less than 1Tb, and it resides on several USB HDDs that are also used for regular backups. There are additional copies on several computers, as well as on a couple of external SSDs that are permanently connected and used or incremental backup.

Physical storage involves two safes and off-site location.

How much data do you have?

 

[Sebastian Cohen]

I've bought rectangular plastic food containers for my backup drives - I wrap the drives in bubble wrap so that they fit snugly into the containers. It lets met handle the drives without worrying about damaging the connectors or circuit board traces.

That's clever. Someone other than me might move my storage boxes...(ie family).

I can't see any downside to the drive in terms of sealing in a container. They're packaged at the factory in an anti-static envelope that seems pretty airtight, so I take that as an endorsement that they don't need "fresh air" as it were.

Also true, but they probably drain bag of moisture before sealing and/or fill it with co2. (Like they do with coffebeans)

The one thing I would caution you on is that leaving a drive sitting on the shelf for years is risky. Drives fail for all sorts of reasons and if the data is important enough to you that you want to protect it the way you're describing then you really need to do two things:

• Have multiple copies of it, ideally in physically separate locations, and
• Check the drive regularly to make sure the data is still readable.

You need to do the latter so that if one of your copies dies, you can recreate it from another copy of the data before it also dies. If you've made two copies of your data and they've been sitting on the shelf untouched for years, you could well actually only have one readable copy or, heaven forbid, none.

Yes, I will have my regular "regular" backup practices in place as well. Two drives, one off site, one at home, rotating between them and doing continuous backup. This is the "apocalyptic" backup. (ie if I end up backing up some encrypting malware). I will loose a lot, but won't loose everything.

I checksum all of the files on my backup drives and verify that they're still consistent just before I use them for a new backup - that way I have confidence that the backups are actually readable and the drives aren't degrading. For drives in archival storage I'd recommend doing this every 6 months to a year.

I will look more into this.

Checking the files on the drive has an active benefit - by reading every data block on the drive the drive checks the ECC data for those blocks to detect errors. If blocks are degrading gradually, the drive can often recover the data despite errors in some of the bits. When the drive reads a block with excessive errors it will move the data to a spare block instead. So not only are you determining that the data is readable, you're also "repairing" any marginal data on the drive.

Drives are completely fresh, no cycles on them. I will do a carbon copy of my library, then leave them.

 

[Sebastian Cohen]

So, I am doing an archival backup of EVERYTHING. This will be the "Doomsday Vault Backup" and it won't get backed up further or connected. It is going on a 3.5" HDD, no case. FYI, I will still be doing my regular backup routine with my other drives as normal.

Lately I have been thinking about how I store my backup drives, in general. I know they are airtight so air moisture variations shouldn't really be an issue. Problem is, they usually end up all over the place. Drawers, bottom of, cardboard boxes, usually bottom of.

So I've been thinking of sticking them into one of those plastic IKEA airtight refrigerator boxes. The type has this rubber seal which would also make them waterproof. It is an added protection AND it will be easier to find. I can also put in a note with what/where etc so I don't have to connect it if I don't remember. Sounds like I have a ton of discs, but you would be surprised how confused you can get with just a couple when you find one 4 years later.

SO, long question short. I will be creating a permanent "environment" in that box and I am wondering if or how that can be negative for the drive when the outside fluxtuates?

I am planning on throwing in one or two of those silica gel pouches as well, should negate any negative variations?

This will prob just lie there for 3-4 years.

I am aware of that the lubrication might dry out in the bearings, but this has not been an issue so far.

Another option for archiving that will last longer than 3-4 years is 'M' disks (DVD) which, although limited in data space, will be accessible for many decades. Because of the limited storage amount of 'M' DVD disks, it could be used for only the very important data.

I have an M drive. I also have about 5TB to back up so, unless the pandemic and another lockdown comes into force, M disks won't be an option hehe.

 

[Sebastian Cohen]

Btw, what bearings are we discussing here, the hdds? Don't worry about those, the hdds components are better sealed than you think.

Open one up and see how clean and neat everything is inside, those platters spin with almost no resistance even when the drive is 10-15 years old. They are sealed anyway, and i assume the grease used is the best for this application.

Worry about data retention, not the quality of the storage solution.

The oil can go stale is what I have heard or get "stuck". Keeping them rotatning now and then keeps it smooth and makes sure any mechanicals don't get "stuck". But I actually don't think it will be an issue here.

 

[a_c_skinner]

"doing continuous backup"

Do you mean your main backup is connected all the time? That is unwise.

 

[Sebastian Cohen]

I will be doing my regular backup practices, so this won't be the fallback in any normal instance. It is mostly in case of ransomware or anything like that. I won't have several drives/media that go continuously into storage, like many companies do. Which would negate if you back up the actual ransomware (because you could always go further back). This drive won't be most recent, so I will potentially loose stuff. But I also don't want to pay and encourage that kind of activity.

I have two drives that I rotate. A is offsite, B is at home. I backup B (the one at home), take it to offsite (sounds so fancy when it's really just my grandparents basement), exchange it with A and then use A drive for backup at home until it's time to rotate again.

It also makes me visit my grandparents more often, so that's nice. WHICH also lets me be on top of their IT-issues and perhaps stop it before it becomes an issue.

I also have a RAID array at home, which I do "standard" automatic backup on, but that's just in case of drive failure. It's not my "backup" and I also use it as storage.

It might sound excessive, because it is. But it should cover my rear satisfactory in any circumstance. Since I have it down as routine, it's actually not a hassle and it's not something I have to spend a lot of time thinking about.

As for size....it's A LOT. I have all my Blurays backed up full res as well....which I don't want online unless I'm sure it's legal. So that's also going into this Doomsday Drive.

 

[Sebastian Cohen]

"doing continuous backup"

Do you mean your main backup is connected all the time? That is unwise.

1. Continuous automatic backup to a RAID array. (Also used as storage, but not working disc)

2. Rotating between two drives, A and B, one always off-site. Manual labor. These are never connected unless doing a backup.

3. Doomsday Drive. Copy and leave for 6-8 months or more.

 

[skyglider]

Lately I have been thinking about how I store my backup drives, in general. I know they are airtight so air moisture variations shouldn't really be an issue. Problem is, they usually end up all over the place. Drawers, bottom of, cardboard boxes, usually bottom of.

So I've been thinking of sticking them into one of those plastic IKEA airtight refrigerator boxes. The type has this rubber seal which would also make them waterproof.

As has already been mentioned, mechanical hard drives are not airtight and do have a breather hole.

That said, we live in a high humidity location, 2 miles from the ocean. I've never had a backup or archival HDD fail. I have had internal running HDDs fail but not backup or archival HDDs. I have movies stored on some HDDs for many years and I only rewatch a movie once in a great while. They all have worked fine so far.

I do keep my backup and archival HDDs in a large fire resistant safe (that's bolted to the concrete floor) so I don't know how much that contributes to humidity protection. The HDDs are just kept in the anti-static bags that they came in that are open on one end. No moisture absorbing packets have been used in the safe.

Maybe consider HDD storage in a fire resistant safe bolted to the floor. Aside from providing a storage location, it also prevents burglary and some fire protection.

Hope this helps,
Sky

 

[CAcreeks]

We live in a high humidity location, 2 miles from the ocean. I've never had a backup or archival HDD fail. I have had internal running HDDs fail but not backup or archival HDDs. I have movies stored on some HDDs for many years and I only rewatch a movie once in a great while. They all have worked fine so far.

I do keep my backup and archival HDDs in a large fire resistant safe (that's bolted to the concrete floor) so I don't know how much that contributes to humidity protection. The HDDs are just kept in the anti-static bags that they came in that are open on one end. No moisture absorbing packets have been used in the safe.

Maybe consider HDD storage in a fire resistant safe bolted to the floor. Aside from providing a storage location, it also prevents burglary and some fire protection.

I'm surprised that your fireproof safe stays dry.

Ours gets really moist inside, so that paper objects stored in the safe soon smell like mildew.

Tips to keep moisture out of a fireproof safe:

https://firefightergarage.com/fireproof-safe-moisture/

I feel the lowest maintenance option for super long digital storage is BluRay M-Disc, although capacity is not large enough for many Raw photographs or certain video formats.

Sebastian if you are reading this, how much of your 5TB comprises Raw photos and videos in non-MP4 format? I suggest that both will be totally useless to your heirs.

However! With two of these you are all set.

Loading…

www.bhphotovideo.com

 

[Sean Nelson]

The oil can go stale is what I have heard or get "stuck". Keeping them rotatning now and then keeps it smooth and makes sure any mechanicals don't get "stuck".

It's not the oil that "sticks", its the read/write heads that can adhere to the surface of the drive via a condition known as "stiction ". This was an issue with older drives that would let the heads settle onto a special "landing zone" on the platter when the power was removed (when running, the heads fly on a cushion of air without touching the platters).

This issue has been eliminated in modern drives, which use offloading ramps to store the heads when they're not in use so that they don't contact the platter surfaces.

 

[Chris Noble]

So, I am doing an archival backup of EVERYTHING. This will be the "Doomsday Vault Backup" and it won't get backed up further or connected. It is going on a 3.5" HDD, no case. FYI, I will still be doing my regular backup routine with my other drives as normal.

Lately I have been thinking about how I store my backup drives, in general. I know they are airtight so air moisture variations shouldn't really be an issue. Problem is, they usually end up all over the place. Drawers, bottom of, cardboard boxes, usually bottom of.

So I've been thinking of sticking them into one of those plastic IKEA airtight refrigerator boxes. The type has this rubber seal which would also make them waterproof. It is an added protection AND it will be easier to find. I can also put in a note with what/where etc so I don't have to connect it if I don't remember. Sounds like I have a ton of discs, but you would be surprised how confused you can get with just a couple when you find one 4 years later.

SO, long question short. I will be creating a permanent "environment" in that box and I am wondering if or how that can be negative for the drive when the outside fluxtuates?

I am planning on throwing in one or two of those silica gel pouches as well, should negate any negative variations?

This will prob just lie there for 3-4 years.

I am aware of that the lubrication might dry out in the bearings, but this has not been an issue so far.

I think you have a couple of options to consider:

(1) Pay to have your backup ride on the next rover mission to Mars, where the rover can bury it in an undisclosed location, in a sealed glass enclosure.

(2) Maintain two time-machine-type backups of your entire system, in two different locations, one of them being the Cloud. This option has the disadvantage that it is not expensive, can be automated, and is boring.

 

[a_c_skinner]

Cloud is a bit costly for the volumes of data the OP is considering isn't it?

 

[Chris Noble]

Cloud is a bit costly for the volumes of data the OP is considering isn't it?

AWS charges me $0.50 per day for 3 TB for their Glacier storage.

 

[kelpdiver]

Cloud is a bit costly for the volumes of data the OP is considering isn't it?

$60/TB/year is typical pricing right now for accessible cloud storage (Glacier is not this), so that would be $300/year and truly remote from the customer.

A pair of 6TB hard drives would run 240-300, require user action and occasional updates/verification. On the plus side, no bandwidth restriction on the upload.

 

[kelpdiver]

"doing continuous backup"

Do you mean your main backup is connected all the time? That is unwise.

continuous available backup allows for continuous automated backups to occur (unlike offline USB drives) and also the ability for continuous verification. It removes the need for faith from the system.

Just need to ensure that there is a geographic separation on at least one copy.