Linear Workflow and Challenge! (lg imgs)

[pbleic]

After much agony, I have decided on a linear workflow. Dcraw has too much moire and zipper artifacts. I am starting with an EVU/FVU linear raw file:

1. Make a linear raw file, 16 bit, TIFF. Unfortunately, they both require either sRGB or AdobeRGB to be tagged to the file. Assign the profile that is DIFFERENT from your working profile in PS.

2. Open the file in PS. When it opens you will get this dialog:



Click the last, don't color manage.

3. Assign the 10D linear profile: http://home.comcast.net/~ajpacheco/Canon10DXLProfilerSDKL.zip
through this dialog:



4. Pull the white point ONLY in on levels to the leftmost data like this:



5. Pull the middle point of the curves dialog out to the left at 45 degrees to adjust contrast and exposure:



6. Add saturation to taste.

7. USM, I use about 400/0.4/threshold 3

8. Convert to sRGB with Adobe/No Blackpoint compensation.

Done.

Now, for the challenge. Take this RAW file: http://bleicher.home.comcast.net/Images/CRW_3972.CRW

and, using nothing more than levels/curves/saturation/USM, get better results than these with any RAW convertor. You have to post the exact same crops as these three. First the overall photo, then the crops:









--
Paul

------------------------------------------------
Pbase supporter
Photographs at: http://www.pbase.com/pbleic
--------------------------------------------------

Unless specified otherwise, all images are Copyright 2003, 2004 All rights reserved.

 

[River Side]

Paul, sorry to 'hijack' your thread but the subject is still the same.. trying to find out the best workflow.. be it JPEG, Canon EVU RAW or DCRAW.

I've downloaded your RAW file and will see what i can do with it. meanwhile here's a little game.

Identify which crops are which and choose the one you like the most:

Crop 1.



Crop 2.



Crop 3.

After much agony, I have decided on a linear workflow. Dcraw has
too much moire and zipper artifacts. I am starting with an EVU/FVU
linear raw file:

1. Make a linear raw file, 16 bit, TIFF. Unfortunately, they both
require either sRGB or AdobeRGB to be tagged to the file. Assign
the profile that is DIFFERENT from your working profile in PS.

2. Open the file in PS. When it opens you will get this dialog:



Click the last, don't color manage.

3. Assign the 10D linear profile:
http://home.comcast.net/~ajpacheco/Canon10DXLProfilerSDKL.zip
through this dialog:



4. Pull the white point ONLY in on levels to the leftmost data like
this:



5. Pull the middle point of the curves dialog out to the left at 45
degrees to adjust contrast and exposure:



6. Add saturation to taste.

7. USM, I use about 400/0.4/threshold 3

8. Convert to sRGB with Adobe/No Blackpoint compensation.

Done.

Now, for the challenge. Take this RAW file:
http://bleicher.home.comcast.net/Images/CRW_3972.CRW
and, using nothing more than levels/curves/saturation/USM, get
better results than these with any RAW convertor. You have to post
the exact same crops as these three. First the overall photo, then
the crops:









--
Paul

------------------------------------------------
Pbase supporter
Photographs at: http://www.pbase.com/pbleic
--------------------------------------------------
Unless specified otherwise, all images are Copyright 2003, 2004
All rights reserved.

 

[pbleic]

1 = jpeg
2 = dcraw
3=EVU linear

You can sharpen 3 more aggressively than 2 if you want, so they don't look that different.

Paul

I've downloaded your RAW file and will see what i can do with it.
meanwhile here's a little game.

Identify which crops are which and choose the one you like the most:

Crop 1.



Crop 2.



Crop 3.

After much agony, I have decided on a linear workflow. Dcraw has
too much moire and zipper artifacts. I am starting with an EVU/FVU
linear raw file:

1. Make a linear raw file, 16 bit, TIFF. Unfortunately, they both
require either sRGB or AdobeRGB to be tagged to the file. Assign
the profile that is DIFFERENT from your working profile in PS.

2. Open the file in PS. When it opens you will get this dialog:



Click the last, don't color manage.

3. Assign the 10D linear profile:
http://home.comcast.net/~ajpacheco/Canon10DXLProfilerSDKL.zip
through this dialog:



4. Pull the white point ONLY in on levels to the leftmost data like
this:



5. Pull the middle point of the curves dialog out to the left at 45
degrees to adjust contrast and exposure:



6. Add saturation to taste.

7. USM, I use about 400/0.4/threshold 3

8. Convert to sRGB with Adobe/No Blackpoint compensation.

Done.

Now, for the challenge. Take this RAW file:
http://bleicher.home.comcast.net/Images/CRW_3972.CRW
and, using nothing more than levels/curves/saturation/USM, get
better results than these with any RAW convertor. You have to post
the exact same crops as these three. First the overall photo, then
the crops:









--
Paul

------------------------------------------------
Pbase supporter
Photographs at: http://www.pbase.com/pbleic
--------------------------------------------------
Unless specified otherwise, all images are Copyright 2003, 2004
All rights reserved.

--
Paul

------------------------------------------------
Pbase supporter
Photographs at: http://www.pbase.com/pbleic
--------------------------------------------------

Unless specified otherwise, all images are Copyright 2003, 2004 All rights reserved.

 

[dougal198252]

My attempts from C1 (no post processing):

After much agony, I have decided on a linear workflow. Dcraw has
too much moire and zipper artifacts. I am starting with an EVU/FVU
linear raw file:

1. Make a linear raw file, 16 bit, TIFF. Unfortunately, they both
require either sRGB or AdobeRGB to be tagged to the file. Assign
the profile that is DIFFERENT from your working profile in PS.

2. Open the file in PS. When it opens you will get this dialog:



Click the last, don't color manage.

3. Assign the 10D linear profile:
http://home.comcast.net/~ajpacheco/Canon10DXLProfilerSDKL.zip
through this dialog:



4. Pull the white point ONLY in on levels to the leftmost data like
this:



5. Pull the middle point of the curves dialog out to the left at 45
degrees to adjust contrast and exposure:



6. Add saturation to taste.

7. USM, I use about 400/0.4/threshold 3

8. Convert to sRGB with Adobe/No Blackpoint compensation.

Done.

Now, for the challenge. Take this RAW file:
http://bleicher.home.comcast.net/Images/CRW_3972.CRW
and, using nothing more than levels/curves/saturation/USM, get
better results than these with any RAW convertor. You have to post
the exact same crops as these three. First the overall photo, then
the crops:









--
Paul

------------------------------------------------
Pbase supporter
Photographs at: http://www.pbase.com/pbleic
--------------------------------------------------
Unless specified otherwise, all images are Copyright 2003, 2004
All rights reserved.

 

[Another birder]

My go (breezebrowser):







--
http://www.pbase.com/timothyo

 

[pbleic]

Great start. This is exactly why I started down this path.
Take a look at the lion, comparing one to the other (yours,mine):





And this is where you can see the increased contrast range. All attempts with RAW software gave me this result - thready branches and a vague cross. Compare yours with mine (less blown out sky, more branches, stronger cross with gold color)

--
Paul

------------------------------------------------
Pbase supporter
Photographs at: http://www.pbase.com/pbleic
--------------------------------------------------

Unless specified otherwise, all images are Copyright 2003, 2004 All rights reserved.

 

[pbleic]

Clearly oversaturated - went back and checked the color of the blue tassle before saturation - much closer to yours and to the "correct" color.

My error; don't blame the profile or workflow.

After much agony, I have decided on a linear workflow. Dcraw has
too much moire and zipper artifacts. I am starting with an EVU/FVU
linear raw file:

1. Make a linear raw file, 16 bit, TIFF. Unfortunately, they both
require either sRGB or AdobeRGB to be tagged to the file. Assign
the profile that is DIFFERENT from your working profile in PS.

2. Open the file in PS. When it opens you will get this dialog:



Click the last, don't color manage.

3. Assign the 10D linear profile:
http://home.comcast.net/~ajpacheco/Canon10DXLProfilerSDKL.zip
through this dialog:



4. Pull the white point ONLY in on levels to the leftmost data like
this:



5. Pull the middle point of the curves dialog out to the left at 45
degrees to adjust contrast and exposure:



6. Add saturation to taste.

7. USM, I use about 400/0.4/threshold 3

8. Convert to sRGB with Adobe/No Blackpoint compensation.

Done.

Now, for the challenge. Take this RAW file:
http://bleicher.home.comcast.net/Images/CRW_3972.CRW
and, using nothing more than levels/curves/saturation/USM, get
better results than these with any RAW convertor. You have to post
the exact same crops as these three. First the overall photo, then
the crops:









--
Paul

------------------------------------------------
Pbase supporter
Photographs at: http://www.pbase.com/pbleic
--------------------------------------------------
Unless specified otherwise, all images are Copyright 2003, 2004
All rights reserved.

--
Paul

------------------------------------------------
Pbase supporter
Photographs at: http://www.pbase.com/pbleic
--------------------------------------------------

Unless specified otherwise, all images are Copyright 2003, 2004 All rights reserved.

 

[Eric28757]

Processed with Bibble 4.0 beta. Default settings. The white balance default in all converters was a bit rudy/magenta too my eye, so I did a click white on the tassle. If you prefer the other balance, let me know and I can redo it with the default. SInce you seemed to desire sharpness, I bumped the sharpness one notch in bibble, which gives more percevied sharpness, and slightly more noise than default.

Since you also seem concenred about artifacts, you'll notice the tassles and in particular are a bunch cleaner and doen't exhibit as much blurring.

In the order originally presented:









Happy to adjust furhter if you would like. Built in tone curves could provide a more or less contrasty image as desired.

Also, while these were done with Bibbles built in profiles, they could also be done in linear. Most likly your linear profile done for another program though woudn;t be compatible with the ranges used in bibble.

Eric

 

[dougal198252]

Now I'll have to take another crack at it as well

Clearly oversaturated - went back and checked the color of the blue
tassle before saturation - much closer to yours and to the
"correct" color.

My error; don't blame the profile or workflow.

 

[pbleic]

Processed with Bibble 4.0 beta. Default settings. The white balance
default in all converters was a bit rudy/magenta too my eye, so I
did a click white on the tassle. If you prefer the other balance,
let me know and I can redo it with the default. SInce you seemed to
desire sharpness, I bumped the sharpness one notch in bibble, which
gives more percevied sharpness, and slightly more noise than
default.

Since you also seem concenred about artifacts, you'll notice the
tassles and in particular are a bunch cleaner and doen't exhibit as
much blurring.

In the order originally presented:









Happy to adjust furhter if you would like. Built in tone curves
could provide a more or less contrasty image as desired.

Also, while these were done with Bibbles built in profiles, they
could also be done in linear. Most likly your linear profile done
for another program though woudn;t be compatible with the ranges
used in bibble.

Eric

--
Paul

------------------------------------------------
Pbase supporter
Photographs at: http://www.pbase.com/pbleic
--------------------------------------------------

Unless specified otherwise, all images are Copyright 2003, 2004 All rights reserved.

 

[pbleic]

Got almost exactly the same colors. But I just wanted to keep it simple for comparison sake.

Processed with Bibble 4.0 beta. Default settings. The white balance
default in all converters was a bit rudy/magenta too my eye, so I
did a click white on the tassle. If you prefer the other balance,
let me know and I can redo it with the default. SInce you seemed to
desire sharpness, I bumped the sharpness one notch in bibble, which
gives more percevied sharpness, and slightly more noise than
default.

Since you also seem concenred about artifacts, you'll notice the
tassles and in particular are a bunch cleaner and doen't exhibit as
much blurring.

In the order originally presented:









Happy to adjust furhter if you would like. Built in tone curves
could provide a more or less contrasty image as desired.

Also, while these were done with Bibbles built in profiles, they
could also be done in linear. Most likly your linear profile done
for another program though woudn;t be compatible with the ranges
used in bibble.

Eric

--
Paul

------------------------------------------------
Pbase supporter
Photographs at: http://www.pbase.com/pbleic
--------------------------------------------------

Unless specified otherwise, all images are Copyright 2003, 2004 All rights reserved.

 

[River Side]

but i think photobucket messes up the jpegs..

After much agony, I have decided on a linear workflow. Dcraw has
too much moire and zipper artifacts. I am starting with an EVU/FVU
linear raw file:

1. Make a linear raw file, 16 bit, TIFF. Unfortunately, they both
require either sRGB or AdobeRGB to be tagged to the file. Assign
the profile that is DIFFERENT from your working profile in PS.

2. Open the file in PS. When it opens you will get this dialog:



Click the last, don't color manage.

3. Assign the 10D linear profile:
http://home.comcast.net/~ajpacheco/Canon10DXLProfilerSDKL.zip
through this dialog:



4. Pull the white point ONLY in on levels to the leftmost data like
this:



5. Pull the middle point of the curves dialog out to the left at 45
degrees to adjust contrast and exposure:



6. Add saturation to taste.

7. USM, I use about 400/0.4/threshold 3

8. Convert to sRGB with Adobe/No Blackpoint compensation.

Done.

Now, for the challenge. Take this RAW file:
http://bleicher.home.comcast.net/Images/CRW_3972.CRW
and, using nothing more than levels/curves/saturation/USM, get
better results than these with any RAW convertor. You have to post
the exact same crops as these three. First the overall photo, then
the crops:









--
Paul

------------------------------------------------
Pbase supporter
Photographs at: http://www.pbase.com/pbleic
--------------------------------------------------
Unless specified otherwise, all images are Copyright 2003, 2004
All rights reserved.

 

[pbleic]

After much agony, I have decided on a linear workflow. Dcraw has
too much moire and zipper artifacts. I am starting with an EVU/FVU
linear raw file:

1. Make a linear raw file, 16 bit, TIFF. Unfortunately, they both
require either sRGB or AdobeRGB to be tagged to the file. Assign
the profile that is DIFFERENT from your working profile in PS.

2. Open the file in PS. When it opens you will get this dialog:



Click the last, don't color manage.

3. Assign the 10D linear profile:
http://home.comcast.net/~ajpacheco/Canon10DXLProfilerSDKL.zip
through this dialog:



4. Pull the white point ONLY in on levels to the leftmost data like
this:



5. Pull the middle point of the curves dialog out to the left at 45
degrees to adjust contrast and exposure:



6. Add saturation to taste.

7. USM, I use about 400/0.4/threshold 3

8. Convert to sRGB with Adobe/No Blackpoint compensation.

Done.

Now, for the challenge. Take this RAW file:
http://bleicher.home.comcast.net/Images/CRW_3972.CRW
and, using nothing more than levels/curves/saturation/USM, get
better results than these with any RAW convertor. You have to post
the exact same crops as these three. First the overall photo, then
the crops:









--
Paul

------------------------------------------------
Pbase supporter
Photographs at: http://www.pbase.com/pbleic
--------------------------------------------------
Unless specified otherwise, all images are Copyright 2003, 2004
All rights reserved.

--
Paul

------------------------------------------------
Pbase supporter
Photographs at: http://www.pbase.com/pbleic
--------------------------------------------------

Unless specified otherwise, all images are Copyright 2003, 2004 All rights reserved.

 

[corgiwcn]

OK, I used

dcraw -w -4 -c -v CRW_3972.CRW ~ pnmtotiff > CRW_3972.tif

to generate a 16-bit TIFF file for cinepaint to edit. Then I just arbitrarily drew a film-like curve and rotated it. The resulting tiff file is again transformed using

convert CRW_3972.tif CRW_3972.tif.jpg

The resulting jpeg file is on

http://home.comcast.net/~wni/pics/CRW_3972.tif.jpg

which is roughly 700K.

 

[pbleic]

OK, I used

dcraw -w -4 -c -v CRW_3972.CRW ~ pnmtotiff > CRW_3972.tif

to generate a 16-bit TIFF file for cinepaint to edit. Then I just
arbitrarily drew a film-like curve and rotated it. The resulting
tiff file is again transformed using

convert CRW_3972.tif CRW_3972.tif.jpg

The resulting jpeg file is on

http://home.comcast.net/~wni/pics/CRW_3972.tif.jpg

which is roughly 700K.

--
Paul

------------------------------------------------
Pbase supporter
Photographs at: http://www.pbase.com/pbleic
--------------------------------------------------

Unless specified otherwise, all images are Copyright 2003, 2004 All rights reserved.

 

[River Side]

dcraw -v -3 -w -b 3

Opened .psd in Photoshop with 10DProfile

AutoLevels, Emulate your curve, Bump up Saturation, USM, convert to SRGB and then 8bits. Cropped and saved JPEG High Quality... but i think photobucket does it's own compression which messes it up a lot.

After much agony, I have decided on a linear workflow. Dcraw has
too much moire and zipper artifacts. I am starting with an EVU/FVU
linear raw file:

1. Make a linear raw file, 16 bit, TIFF. Unfortunately, they both
require either sRGB or AdobeRGB to be tagged to the file. Assign
the profile that is DIFFERENT from your working profile in PS.

2. Open the file in PS. When it opens you will get this dialog:



Click the last, don't color manage.

3. Assign the 10D linear profile:
http://home.comcast.net/~ajpacheco/Canon10DXLProfilerSDKL.zip
through this dialog:



4. Pull the white point ONLY in on levels to the leftmost data like
this:



5. Pull the middle point of the curves dialog out to the left at 45
degrees to adjust contrast and exposure:



6. Add saturation to taste.

7. USM, I use about 400/0.4/threshold 3

8. Convert to sRGB with Adobe/No Blackpoint compensation.

Done.

Now, for the challenge. Take this RAW file:
http://bleicher.home.comcast.net/Images/CRW_3972.CRW
and, using nothing more than levels/curves/saturation/USM, get
better results than these with any RAW convertor. You have to post
the exact same crops as these three. First the overall photo, then
the crops:









--
Paul

------------------------------------------------
Pbase supporter
Photographs at: http://www.pbase.com/pbleic
--------------------------------------------------
Unless specified otherwise, all images are Copyright 2003, 2004
All rights reserved.

--
Paul

------------------------------------------------
Pbase supporter
Photographs at: http://www.pbase.com/pbleic
--------------------------------------------------
Unless specified otherwise, all images are Copyright 2003, 2004
All rights reserved.

 

[Don Lashier]

The reason for the difference in the lion is C1's film curve vs your linear which has none. If additional contrast in the highlights is worth sacrificing tonality elsewhere, this is easily done in C1 also. Don't get me wrong, a good linear workflow can give excellent results, but C1 is so much easier. I'll attempt my own try later but don't have C1 on my office computer.

• DL

Great start. This is exactly why I started down this path.
Take a look at the lion, comparing one to the other (yours,mine):

--
http://www.lashier.com

 

[Don Lashier]

But you lost the reds in the tassle.

• DL

dcraw -v -3 -w -b 3

Opened .psd in Photoshop with 10DProfile

AutoLevels, Emulate your curve, Bump up Saturation, USM, convert to
SRGB and then 8bits. Cropped and saved JPEG High Quality... but i
think photobucket does it's own compression which messes it up a
lot.

--
http://www.lashier.com

 

[Victor Engel]

I'll keep yours quoted for easy comparison. Yours first, followed by mine in each case.

 

[Victor Engel]

OK, here is what I did as best I can remember.

I used Canon 10D True Color Nonlinear profile available at http://www.aboutdigicam.com/~mario/EOS-10D-True-Color-Non-Linear.icm . This I plugged into the appropriate field in the current release of Vuescan (uses DCRAW).

Vuescan settings other than the profile that may be relevant:
Grain reduction: light
Color Balance: Neutral
Black point and white point each at 0.01
Output color space: sRGB

In Photoshop:

Assign sRGB
Raise black point slightly using levels.
No curves adjustment.

Increase saturation slightly (I don't remember how much but I think somewhere between 13 and 20 percent)
USM 25,25,0
USM 500,0.3,0
USM 300,0.3,0
(USM 250,0.2,0 after resizing overall picture)

Trying to remember the steps brings up a question. Photoshop has a history window. Is it possible to get the details of what was applied at a step? I know you can click on a history line, but can you inquire what the step was to get to that line?

Victor