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HELP! thinking about returning k10d

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Erin Holliday

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I NEED ADVICE

I bought my first DSLR, the K10d. I figured I'll fall in love with it and not want to get rid of it for a long, long time. I have an old broken Pentax SLR and a couple of lenses and the idea of being able to use those with the new camera and save some money sounded good to me... so I researched forever and eventually bought it. But I'm NOT in love, I'm depressed. I think I made a huge mistake. The pictures I've been taking look hopeless. I love my Canon s80, LOVE the pictures I can take with it. I can get the photo style I want straight out of the camera. The colors are saturated perfectly and the edges are sharp. The photos just look CRISP. The pictures I've been taking with the Pentax are so soft, the edges look fuzzy. And the colors are just so neutral.. the photos just look blah to me. I've messed with every setting, read every suggestion on how to make the JPEGs look better... I know how to take a good photo even if I don't know that much on technical side of it. I'm not going to shoot everything raw, I take a lot of pictures every time I use it and I just can't post process everything, you know? To me, it's not worth having the expensive camera if I have to do that. There's so much noise and fuzziness in these pictures, I can't help but be depressed when I look at them.

Even though I'm not an experienced DSLR user, I don't feel like the problem with the photos is me, I feel like it's the camera. I have like a day left to return it and I'm really thinking about it. I want a camera that's a big step up from my s80, I had a lot of control on that and I'm not just talking about like.. snowman mode or selective color or automated things like that, haha.. I really only used modes where I changed ISO and shutter speed, and messed around from there.

I want to spend about a grand and make a good investment for myself.. should I go with the Nikon D80 or the Canon EOS 30D? I want something comparable to these cameras. If ANYONE can help me PLEASE! I have to make this decision very soon, I've been dreading it for about 20 days now. I'll post some pictures to illustrate what I mean a little later.
 
I disagree if you cant get good photos with a dSLR (any dSLR) its probably not the equipment - not trying to sound harsh but you probably need to figure out how everything works - also - everything so noisy? This coming from a Canon S80 owner?? This almost seems like youre trolling but as far as I recall ISO200 is barely usable on the S80. Why dont you post some pics taken with the S80 AND the same scene with the K10 and maybe we can see what youre doing wrong. Changing camera brands or models will not magically make your photos better anyways.
wlachan said:
maybe you can consider 350D + 17-40/4L (unless 1k is for body only
then 30D). You clearly want jpeg and K10D doesn't deliver.
--
Alan Chan
http://www.pbase.com/wlachan
Click to expand...
--
Sinan

 
I forgot to mention I've used mostly the 18-55 mm kit lens, but I have tried it with a few other asahi lenses
 
Okay, calm down... I expected noise from my Canon.. and I got it... I worked around it until I could save for something better, which I did. I'll admit that the noise from this Pentax is a lot easier to get rid of with Neat Image in Photoshop, that's not my main concern. Sorry to push your buttons with the word noise. I just mean the pictures have been turning out soft and fuzzy looking. I will post pictures tonight.
 
instead of Natural?

You're probably used to the slightly technicolor Canon/Sony images...
 
Here's a photo I took in JPG mode with the 18-55 lens. It was my first outing with my new K10D and I was still getting used to it.

Model: PENTAX K10D
Shutter Speed: 2/1 second
F Number: F/4.5
Focal Length: 20 mm
ISO Speed: 200
Date Picture Taken: Apr 28, 2007, 9:08:46 PM



This was taken the same night except I was using my old Sears 50mm manual lens.



--
John
Pentax K10D, Sony DSC-H1
 
Did you try "Bright" mode? Did you try changing saturation and sharpening settings?
 
Yes - samples would be good - until then just shoot in Bright mode with the JPG's - they should be punchy, contrasty and saturated.
Erin Cesaro said:
Okay, calm down... I expected noise from my Canon.. and I got it...
I worked around it until I could save for something better, which I
did. I'll admit that the noise from this Pentax is a lot easier to
get rid of with Neat Image in Photoshop, that's not my main
concern. Sorry to push your buttons with the word noise. I just
mean the pictures have been turning out soft and fuzzy looking. I
will post pictures tonight.
Click to expand...
--
Sinan

 
Timbert said:
She has a Canon 30D, and can't seem to
get shots as sharp, or blues as saturated.
Click to expand...
...with the cheap kit lens?
--
Espen
 
Erin Cesaro said:
I NEED ADVICE
I'm depressed. The pictures I've
been taking with the Pentax are so soft, the edges look fuzzy. And
the colors are just so neutral.. the photos just look blah to me.
I can't help but be
depressed when I look at them.
If ANYONE can help me
PLEASE!
Click to expand...
The Bright setting blows some channels sometimes, so you can try Natural with +2 Sat., and +1 or +2 Sharp. The K10D uses darkside sharpening, so will not give you the type of sharpening you and thousands of other owners have posted they want the option of.

The smart business decision here is to just make this a dead issue by giving the K10D an edge/USM sharpening option for the many owners that have vocalized this desire. Just add a form of it to firmware as an option already so countless comments on and on will stop hitting the brickwall of Pentax saying "filmlike quality" or othe marketing excuse, or "use Bright mode" that doesn't solve the issue.

Obviously, Pentax does not care to eliminate this - even if it WON'T affect the other aspects of the camera if the owner prefers the post-processing route.

Its just time for Pentax to kill this out-of-camera soft jpeg issue instead of competely ignoring thousands of requests. To enough if a degree it is just a software issue, not COMPLETELY a hardware issue so a simple additional option in the next firmware update will nip this thing already.

How many times does this issue from a bulk of K10D buyers, and reviewers have to come up before Pentax practices some of its famed "we listen to our customers" philosophy? Make those people happy already.
 
Just return it and get something you're happy with. However if you dont plan to do any post processing you'll find most of the budget SLRs like the D40, D40x, K100D, etc do more aggressive in camera processing and you should not need to do it yourself.

In terms of ultimate image quality there is nothing to choose between them and the more expensive ones, so unless you need the extra features I would suggest you save some cash and spend it on lenses.
Erin Cesaro said:
I NEED ADVICE
I bought my first DSLR, the K10d. I figured I'll fall in love with
it and not want to get rid of it for a long, long time. I have an
old broken Pentax SLR and a couple of lenses and the idea of being
able to use those with the new camera and save some money sounded
good to me... so I researched forever and eventually bought it. But
I'm NOT in love, I'm depressed. I think I made a huge mistake. The
pictures I've been taking look hopeless. I love my Canon s80, LOVE
the pictures I can take with it. I can get the photo style I want
straight out of the camera. The colors are saturated perfectly and
the edges are sharp. The photos just look CRISP. The pictures I've
been taking with the Pentax are so soft, the edges look fuzzy. And
the colors are just so neutral.. the photos just look blah to me.
I've messed with every setting, read every suggestion on how to
make the JPEGs look better... I know how to take a good photo even
if I don't know that much on technical side of it. I'm not going to
shoot everything raw, I take a lot of pictures every time I use it
and I just can't post process everything, you know? To me, it's not
worth having the expensive camera if I have to do that. There's so
much noise and fuzziness in these pictures, I can't help but be
depressed when I look at them.
Even though I'm not an experienced DSLR user, I don't feel like the
problem with the photos is me, I feel like it's the camera. I have
like a day left to return it and I'm really thinking about it. I
want a camera that's a big step up from my s80, I had a lot of
control on that and I'm not just talking about like.. snowman mode
or selective color or automated things like that, haha.. I really
only used modes where I changed ISO and shutter speed, and messed
around from there.
I want to spend about a grand and make a good investment for
myself.. should I go with the Nikon D80 or the Canon EOS 30D? I
want something comparable to these cameras. If ANYONE can help me
PLEASE! I have to make this decision very soon, I've been dreading
it for about 20 days now. I'll post some pictures to illustrate
what I mean a little later.
Click to expand...
--
Steve
Pixel peepers miss the big picture.
http://www.pbase.com/steve_jacob
 
please heavily consider the following. there are NEW DSLR owners' writing in all over these forums on this subject.

when changeing from a p&s to a dslr, there is a huge difference.

when you take p&s out of the box add a memory card and a fully charged battery you can now shoot and take very good pics.

BUT, you cannot do this with dslr. the camera HAS TO BE SETUP first. you have to adjust the contrast/saturation/sharpness/shooting modes to your likes. if you don't it is quite likely you will disappointed with results. your p&s will likely outshoot the dslr.

to setup-you have shoot a test shot make ONE adjustment reshoot check pc screen readjust, until you are satisfied. and you do this with each of the adjustment types. then you have all the custom adjustments in the menu to check and if wanted change.

when done you can put the camera into AUTO or PROGRAM and get reasonably nice shots. i would advise at first staying with jpeg. as you learn about the camera and photography you can then go to the other shooting modes and try RAW if you wish.
 
to know that there are three possibilities here. I've seen all the great shots posted here and on Pbase and other sites shot with the 10D, seen the work of professionals using the 10D, read some very fine and praising reviews of the 10D. So, here they are:
  • You have no clue as to how to operate the camera.
  • You got a "bad" sample...it happens to any brand of anything.
  • You are trolling for trouble because you are a simple-minded person.
Pick the one that fits, and let us know.

'This is more serious than I thought.....but it is still fun!
http://www.pbase.com/rupertdog Take a look- It's Free!
 
I would say if you're not happy with it, Return it while you can. It's too expensive to keep if you can't 'fall in love' with it. That said however, there's a definate learning curve with this camera as there will be with Any dSLR. Further, it's my personal opinion, that the kit lens while fine for walk around snapshots, isn't the best performer on a 10Mp camera. But I have to consider what I paid for it and make the statement, good enough on most shots I take with it. Others, however, seem to get much more out of it than I do. For many many shots, I shared your frustration until I actually learned to use the tools. If you care to, have a look at my K10d directory on photobucket (linked in sig). Whatever you decide, good luck with it..
--
http://photobucket.com/albums/v285/jjmel FZ20
http://s134.photobucket.com/albums/q109/jjkyle/ K10D
Still happy with the K10d (in spite of the pixel peepers)
Someone in Poland is enjoying my FZ20 now.
 
Erin Cesaro said:
I've messed with every setting, read every suggestion on how to
make the JPEGs look better... I know how to take a good photo even
if I don't know that much on technical side of it. I'm not going to
shoot everything raw, I take a lot of pictures every time I use it
and I just can't post process everything, you know?
Click to expand...
No. I don't know. I rarely "mess with settings", I do know how to take "a good photo" - and even know the "technical side of it", I "take a lot of pictures" but I also use raw.
Erin Holliday said:
To me, it's not
worth having the expensive camera if I have to do that.
Click to expand...
Then best get rid of it while you still have the chance, this sort of camera is clearly not a good match for your requirements or way of working. But before you do that...
Erin Holliday said:
There's so
much noise and fuzziness in these pictures, I can't help but be
depressed when I look at them.
Click to expand...
So let's get depressed too, post them.
Erin Holliday said:
I want to spend about a grand and make a good investment for
myself.. should I go with the Nikon D80 or the Canon EOS 30D? I
want something comparable to these cameras. If ANYONE can help me
PLEASE! I have to make this decision very soon, I've been dreading
it for about 20 days now. I'll post some pictures to illustrate
what I mean a little later.
Click to expand...
Perhaps posting some examples would help, but I'm getting bad vibes about your predicament from the general tone of your... complaints. Let's see the problems you are having in the images rather than lots of words. before writing it off as another "blame the camera" tirade.

--
John Bean [BST/GMT+1] ('British Stupid Time')

PAW 2007 Week 20:
http://waterfoot.smugmug.com/gallery/2321711/2/154041662/Large



Index page: http://waterfoot.smugmug.com
Latest walkabout (21 March 2007):
http://waterfoot.smugmug.com/gallery/2641073
 
As someone else has mentioned, this is a problem with almost every person upgrading from a P&S to a DSLR, even more so because you went with a midrange/semi-pro model. There is a very definite trend as you move up the photo gear chain, which is that the higher you go, the less the camera processes. The less it processes, the more "blah" the photos look straight out of the camera. The reason for this is that in-camera processing, while looking pleasing on small prints and on the web, destroys a lot of data in the photo. Over-sharpening creates halos and reduces fine detail, over-saturating blows color channels, high contrast loses dynamic range, etc. As you go up the chain toward professional quality, the camera (and the manufacturer, for that matter) is expecting that you're going to want to have the utmost quality in the file to do with what you wish. So, you get a flat, soft image that has a ton of potential .

I'd probably say the K10 is a little worse on this than the competition, as far as jpegs straight from the camera at least (even in bright mode or with sharpening turned up it's not as crisp as RAW), but if you switch to the Nikon D80/D200 or Canon 30D, you'll run into the same issue. If you really aren't happy with what you're getting out of the K10 and don't want to post-process, you have only two options (other than to just keep trying to find the right settings):

1. Drop down to an entry level DSLR, a la K100/K110, D40/D40x, or XTi. These are set up to be a little more punchy out of the camera to ease the transition for people moving up from P&S's.

2. Stay with P&S's.

If you feel like you've hit the limits of what P&S's can offer (i.e. the camera is holding you back from the shots you really want to take), then I'd suggest the 1st option. Note that Phil mentioned in his reviews of the K100 and K10 that the K100 really did a great job with jpeg processing in camera, and Phil thinks it's a step backwards with the K10. So maybe the K100D would be your best option, since you already have lenses.

In the end, keep in mind that the best camera will ALWAYS be the camera that gives you the most motivation and desire to use it, which has nothing to do with specifications. The greatest camera ever made quickly becomes a glorified paper weight if you don't like to use it. If you feel it's too much of a hassle to get the photos you want out of the K10, then it's not the camera for you.

--
http://www.photobird.com/prinz/
http://mutedphotos.deviantart.com/
 
Seriously...If you can't get good images with the K10 then you won't with the Canon or Nikon.

You will be tossing a camera because of your lack of knowledge, not because the camera is bad.
--
http://www.davidwinnert.com
 
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