Godox vs Elinchrom vs...? Beginner questions.

[mujana]

Hello everyone. First time post on this specific forum (I think).

Never shot with studio lights/flashes. I like to shoot portraits and mainly portraits. Head and full body. So far, only with natural light. Did so for many years. Especially with newer cameras, not a big problem to crank up iso. I always had the impression, that using studio strobes would be unnecessarily complicated. Also avoiding the proces of learning new stuff.

I was wrong ofcourse. Tried Broncolor at a professional photo fair just a few weeks ago and I was impressed by the ease of just shooting models at iso100 f8 indoors and everything looked natural en sharp. And....ofcourse visibly better than portraits with iso 1600/3200/etc. (what I used often, out of necessity).

So now I' m thinking about getting one or 2 lights for a start. In general, I prefer to go for the "best" material available (I experienced that the pleasure of using new gear also depends on quality; better quality often means less irritation. And sure there is a point of diminishing returns), but at the moment there are (financial) restrictions. I think Broncolor is out of the question for this reason. As probably is ProPhoto (both because of price).

So I was thinking ...Godox? Elinchrom? (others)? Maybe start with one good light (pay more) and add another later on? Or maybe a studio set with 2 lights?

These look attractive, but no experience here:

Elicnchrome ELB 500 TTL Dual to go set

Elinchrom ELC 125/500 set

(combination of Godox AD400 Pro and AD600Pro)?

Or maybe only one ProPhoto studio light to start with?

I' m shooting portraits indoors . Portability and batteries aren' t that important (although they could be attractive in future). Preferably HSS. Good CRI also. I do not want to use on-camera flashes.

Ofcourse I read many things on the internet already, but I find personal experiences very valuable (subjective as they may be). I still have more than enough time to learn more and more.

Every advice is very welcome!

Thank you!

 

[Ellis Vener]

Preferably HSS. Good CRI also. I do not want to use on-camera flashes.

You do not need HSS unless you are also incorporating bright ambient light as in (middle of the day sunlight) in the photograph. The shortness of the flash duration will freeze subject motion.



CRI doesn’t really play into evaluating flash systems as flash is full spectrum, daylight balanced light. Using diffusion - an umbrella or softbox will lower the color temperature slightly, for for portraits that is generally a good thing.

As for specific brand recommendations, since you are in the Netherlands, a consideration you should make is whether or not there is local sales and support for whichever brand you end up liking.
Also check the used market for Elinchrom, Broncolor, and Profoto for light modifiers and other accessories you might find necessary. It is easy to get swept up in the need for different types and sizes of lighting modifiers but to start with you need are stands, a light meter capable of working with flash, and a 40-50 inch diameter umbrella (preferably white and preferably with a removable black cover. You might want a medium size softbox as well. Neither the softbox or the umbrella need to be the same brand as the lighting units One last accessory that you will find useful is white Fomecore or matboard which you can use as a reflector.

 

[ronscuba]

Hello everyone. First time post on this specific forum (I think).

Never shot with studio lights/flashes. I like to shoot portraits and mainly portraits. Head and full body. So far, only with natural light. Did so for many years. Especially with newer cameras, not a big problem to crank up iso. I always had the impression, that using studio strobes would be unnecessarily complicated. Also avoiding the proces of learning new stuff.

I was wrong ofcourse. Tried Broncolor at a professional photo fair just a few weeks ago and I was impressed by the ease of just shooting models at iso100 f8 indoors and everything looked natural en sharp. And....ofcourse visibly better than portraits with iso 1600/3200/etc. (what I used often, out of necessity).

So now I' m thinking about getting one or 2 lights for a start. In general, I prefer to go for the "best" material available (I experienced that the pleasure of using new gear also depends on quality; better quality often means less irritation. And sure there is a point of diminishing returns), but at the moment there are (financial) restrictions. I think Broncolor is out of the question for this reason. As probably is ProPhoto (both because of price).

So I was thinking ...Godox? Elinchrom? (others)? Maybe start with one good light (pay more) and add another later on? Or maybe a studio set with 2 lights?

These look attractive, but no experience here:

Elicnchrome ELB 500 TTL Dual to go set

Elinchrom ELC 125/500 set

(combination of Godox AD400 Pro and AD600Pro)?

Or maybe only one ProPhoto studio light to start with?

I' m shooting portraits indoors . Portability and batteries aren' t that important (although they could be attractive in future). Preferably HSS. Good CRI also. I do not want to use on-camera flashes.

Ofcourse I read many things on the internet already, but I find personal experiences very valuable (subjective as they may be). I still have more than enough time to learn more and more.

Every advice is very welcome!

Thank you!

What is your total budget for everything and where do you plan to shoot ? I ask because it is not just lights. You will need stands, modifiers, backgrounds. Costs can add up quickly, so I think looking at the overall budget is important.

For example, you said portability and batteries are not important, but you listed battery powered strobes. Switching to AC powered strobes will allow $ to be spent on other items.

--
https://www.ronchauphoto.com/
https://www.instagram.com/rchau.photo

 

[mujana]

Preferably HSS. Good CRI also. I do not want to use on-camera flashes.

You do not need HSS unless you are also incorporating bright ambient light as in (middle of the day sunlight) in the photograph. The shortness of the flash duration will freeze subject motion.

CRI doesn’t really play into evaluating flash systems as flash is full spectrum, daylight balanced light. Using diffusion - an umbrella or softbox will lower the color temperature slightly, for for portraits that is generally a good thing.

As for specific brand recommendations, since you are in the Netherlands, a consideration you should make is whether or not there is local sales and support for whichever brand you end up liking.
Also check the used market for Elinchrom, Broncolor, and Profoto for light modifiers and other accessories you might find necessary. It is easy to get swept up in the need for different types and sizes of lighting modifiers but to start with you need are stands, a light meter capable of working with flash, and a 40-50 inch diameter umbrella (preferably white and preferably with a removable black cover. You might want a medium size softbox as well. Neither the softbox or the umbrella need to be the same brand as the lighting units One last accessory that you will find useful is white Fomecore or matboard which you can use as a

reflector.

Thank you for all this. I already use reflectors and backdrops. Shooting in broad daylight might become an issue in the future. Don’t know yet. Good idea to look at second hand options. A lot to think about.

Are there a lot of quality differences between brands I mentioned? Build quality, but also (and probably more important), output and functionality.

--
Ellis Vener
A working photographer since 1984.
To see my work, please visit http://www.ellisvener.com
Or on Instagram @EllisVenerStudio

 

[mujana]

Hello everyone. First time post on this specific forum (I think).

Never shot with studio lights/flashes. I like to shoot portraits and mainly portraits. Head and full body. So far, only with natural light. Did so for many years. Especially with newer cameras, not a big problem to crank up iso. I always had the impression, that using studio strobes would be unnecessarily complicated. Also avoiding the proces of learning new stuff.

I was wrong ofcourse. Tried Broncolor at a professional photo fair just a few weeks ago and I was impressed by the ease of just shooting models at iso100 f8 indoors and everything looked natural en sharp. And....ofcourse visibly better than portraits with iso 1600/3200/etc. (what I used often, out of necessity).

So now I' m thinking about getting one or 2 lights for a start. In general, I prefer to go for the "best" material available (I experienced that the pleasure of using new gear also depends on quality; better quality often means less irritation. And sure there is a point of diminishing returns), but at the moment there are (financial) restrictions. I think Broncolor is out of the question for this reason. As probably is ProPhoto (both because of price).

So I was thinking ...Godox? Elinchrom? (others)? Maybe start with one good light (pay more) and add another later on? Or maybe a studio set with 2 lights?

These look attractive, but no experience here:

Elicnchrome ELB 500 TTL Dual to go set

Elinchrom ELC 125/500 set

(combination of Godox AD400 Pro and AD600Pro)?

Or maybe only one ProPhoto studio light to start with?

I' m shooting portraits indoors . Portability and batteries aren' t that important (although they could be attractive in future). Preferably HSS. Good CRI also. I do not want to use on-camera flashes.

Ofcourse I read many things on the internet already, but I find personal experiences very valuable (subjective as they may be). I still have more than enough time to learn more and more.

Every advice is very welcome!

Thank you!

What is your total budget for everything and where do you plan to shoot ? I ask because it is not just lights. You will need stands, modifiers, backgrounds. Costs can add up quickly, so I think looking at the overall budget is important.

For example, you said portability and batteries are not important, but you listed battery powered strobes. Switching to AC powered strobes will allow $ to be spent on other items.

 

[MoreCowbell]

I can’t suggest which system would work best for your personal uses, but I do have a couple of thoughts for you to consider:

The two systems you listed are physically completely different. One is a Pack and head and the other is a monolight. Give some consideration to which will best lend itself to your uses.

Think of what sort of use case in your personal workflow will benefit from HSS. You may not need it at all.

You can save some money by considering AC systems, but in my personal view the elimination of cords on the floor and not relying on wall outlet locations makes battery powered systems a better fit for my personal uses. You will, however, need spare batteries which ain’t cheap

I’ve never used the 500 but have two (discontinued and less powerful) Profoto B2 Air systems, now discontinued, which are physically similar. The portability and lack of weight on top of a light stand are beneficial to my outdoor portraits.

I also have three Flashpoint strobes, which are simply relabled Godox, which I like very much. Despite being battery powered I don’t use them in the field. I dislike the extra weight on top of the light stand. I use significantly heaver light stands indoors than outdoors where I have to hump the things to the location on my back 

All my lights support HSS, but I seldom find occasion to use it. I do kinda like TTL on occasion but could easily do without that also.

In addition to the above systems I have 4 really really ancient Novatron pack and head systems and two AC powered Godox monoplights. Can’t really recall the last time they were taken out of the cases

--
https://www.castle-explorers.com

 

[mujana]

I can’t suggest which system would work best for your personal uses, but I do have a couple of thoughts for you to consider:

The two systems you listed are physically completely different. One is a Pack and head and the other is a monolight. Give some consideration to which will best lend itself to your uses.

Think of what sort of use case in your personal workflow will benefit from HSS. You may not need it at all.

You can save some money by considering AC systems, but in my personal view the elimination of cords on the floor and not relying on wall outlet locations makes battery powered systems a better fit for my personal uses. You will, however, need spare batteries which ain’t cheap

I’ve never used the 500 but have two (discontinued and less powerful) Profoto B2 Air systems, now discontinued, which are physically similar. The portability and lack of weight on top of a light stand are beneficial to my outdoor portraits.

I also have three Flashpoint strobes, which are simply relabled Godox, which I like very much. Despite being battery powered I don’t use them in the field. I dislike the extra weight on top of the light stand. I use significantly heaver light stands indoors than outdoors where I have to hump the things to the location on my back 

All my lights support HSS, but I seldom find occasion to use it. I do kinda like TTL on occasion but could easily do without that also.

In addition to the above systems I have 4 really really ancient Novatron pack and head systems and two AC powered Godox monoplights. Can’t really recall the last time they were taken out of the cases

Thank you MoreCowbell. I soak up all information and happy with all personal experiences. You seem to have a lot of them

 

[MoreCowbell]

...... personal experiences. You seem to have a lot of them

Making good decisions is generally the result of experience.

Experience is generally the result of making bad decisions

 

[kli]

Never shot with studio lights/flashes. I like to shoot portraits and mainly portraits. Head and full body. So far, only with natural light.

Just me, but if you've never shot with flash before, you may want to start with just a simple on-camera speedlight before rushing into a studio setup with monolights. To me, this is similar to a first-time IL-camera owner asking which f/1.4 primes to get without having even shot with a kit lens, first.

Using flash requires disassembling everything you think you know about exposure and reassembling it with additional components: flash power, flash distance/placement/angle, attention to sync speed, ambient/flash balance, flash metering, etc.

For example, you're combining flash and ambient exposures in every shot.

Ambient exposure is controlled by iso, aperture, and shutter speed.

But flash exposure is controlled by iso, aperture, power, and flash-to-subject distance. At or below your camera body's sync speed, shutter speed has no effect on flash exposure because the flash burst will always be much faster than your shutter speed.

And flash and ambient can overlap in a scene.

An on-camera speedlight can teach you about flash metering/exposure, flash/ambient balance, and having some control over the intensity, direction, quality, and (with gels) color of your light. It's not as sexy or cool or versatile as off-camera. But all you have to buy and master is the speedlight, and you will have all the toys of battery-powered portability, small size, TTL, HSS, 2nd curtain, etc. available to you. Things you may have to give up with monolights—particularly AC-powered ones.

You will also have something go-light you can just shove in your camera bag while traveling, something you can use on-camera for event/social shooting or chasing kids/pets around the house where trailing a light on a stand behind you isn't practical.

And you can also use speedlights off-camera these days. Certainly enough for you to use iso 200 and f/5.6 in a studio setting for portrait use, if possibly not iso 100 and f/8.

So now I' m thinking about getting one or 2 lights for a start.

Just me, start with one light. I wouldn't proliferate until you know you've got the power/spread you want. A speedlight is at the lowest end of the totem pole on output and spread, but at least it gives you a point of reference. Think of it like getting a kit lens. You're already thinking about spending on a 24-70/2.8. Maybe it's what you need. But if it isn't, and you really needed a 35/1.4 or a 70-200/2.8 instead...

Chicken and the egg. To know what you want in a strobe; you need to have some experience with strobes. A speedlight can be a low-cost entry that is unique in letting you use it both on-camera for bouncing, as well as off-camera on stands.

In general, I prefer to go for the "best" material available (I experienced that the pleasure of using new gear also depends on quality; better quality often means less irritation. And sure there is a point of diminishing returns), but at the moment there are (financial) restrictions.

IOW, champagne tastes on a beer budget?

Godox is great for this. You will have irritation but less than you might assume. The main issue is whether you're feature-creature enough to forego manufacturer warranty/customer support and factory repair and not mind just replacing something when it goes bad or is a lemon copy. B&H and Adorama will cover the warranty period on Godox gear with replacement copies. But Godox themselves may not reply to support emails or insist you ship the unit to Shenzhen for repair, which effectively totals it.

Westcott, Broncolor, Elinchrom, Profoto, etc. all have better reputation for customer service and repair, but are going to be more expensive. Possibly more than twice as expensive. And none of them have quite as extensive or widely-used as system as Godox. And none of them offer a selection of speedlights to match Godox's, that can be integrated with their larger strobes. Westcott (which is rebranding Jinbei's RT system as their FJ system) and Profoto properly only offer one speedlight model.

So I was thinking ...Godox? Elinchrom? (others)? Maybe start with one good light (pay more) and add another later on? Or maybe a studio set with 2 lights?

One speedlight ($85-$260). On-camera.

Then off-camera with a single modifier.

THEN figure out how many/how big you need your lights to be and start contemplating the Godox/Elinchrom/Broncolor side of things, and the knock-on effects to the size/weight of your stands and modifiers.

... I' m shooting portraits indoors . Portability and batteries aren' t that important (although they could be attractive in future). Preferably HSS. Good CRI also.

CRI is for LED/continuous, not so much strobes (just assume you're near 100 on CRI with strobes); it's not really an issue or consideration. Color consistency over the power range might be, but that's not the same as CRI.

Getting HSS will typically mean coming with TTL and battery-power on IGBT-controlled strobes; not so much cheap AC voltage-controlled strobes. And if you're shooting posed subjects in a studio, you may never need it. HSS is if you're shooting in sunlight or need to freeze action and can't/don't want to kill the ambient. And you can get HSS off-camera over radio with a $70 speedlight (Godox TT600) if you want. Again, a speedlight has all the toys available for you to play with so you can choose whether or not you need them in a studio strobe.

I do not want to use on-camera flashes.

Has it occurred to you that the reason you don't want to use an on-camera flash (even though, as you state you've never used flash) is that you don't yet know how to use one? Yes, on-camera is more limited than off-camera lighting; but it doesn't mean looking like a pop-up flash either: you can get good natural-looking light from on-camera flash. It's also a helluva lot more convenient to just shove a speedlight in your camera bag than it is to pack a lighting bag to lug along with the camera bag.

David Hobby came up with using speedlights off-camera Strobist-style because he was tired of lugging his big heavy monolights (and big/heavy lightstands to support them) with him on assignment around town, and having to find nearby outlets for them. He needed to move lightly and quickly from assignment to assignment. And tiny battery powered speedlights made everything easier for him.

 

[mujana]

...... personal experiences. You seem to have a lot of them

Making good decisions is generally the result of experience.

Experience is generally the result of making bad decisions

You’re right. No experience here with studio lights…so ….bad decisions ahead

--
https://www.castle-explorers.com

 

[Ed Shapiro]

Hello everyone. First time post on this specific forum (I think).

Never shot with studio lights/flashes. I like to shoot portraits and mainly portraits. Head and full body. So far, only with natural light. Did so for many years. Especially with newer cameras, not a big problem to crank up iso. I always had the impression, that using studio strobes would be unnecessarily complicated. Also avoiding the proces of learning new stuff.

I was wrong ofcourse. Tried Broncolor at a professional photo fair just a few weeks ago and I was impressed by the ease of just shooting models at iso100 f8 indoors and everything looked natural en sharp. And....ofcourse visibly better than portraits with iso 1600/3200/etc. (what I used often, out of necessity).

So now I' m thinking about getting one or 2 lights for a start. In general, I prefer to go for the "best" material available (I experienced that the pleasure of using new gear also depends on quality; better quality often means less irritation. And sure there is a point of diminishing returns), but at the moment there are (financial) restrictions. I think Broncolor is out of the question for this reason. As probably is ProPhoto (both because of price).

So I was thinking ...Godox? Elinchrom? (others)? Maybe start with one good light (pay more) and add another later on? Or maybe a studio set with 2 lights?

These look attractive, but no experience here:

Elicnchrome ELB 500 TTL Dual to go set

Elinchrom ELC 125/500 set

(combination of Godox AD400 Pro and AD600Pro)?

Or maybe only one ProPhoto studio light to start with?

I' m shooting portraits indoors . Portability and batteries aren' t that important (although they could be attractive in future). Preferably HSS. Good CRI also. I do not want to use on-camera flashes.

Ofcourse I read many things on the internet already, but I find personal experiences very valuable (subjective as they may be). I still have more than enough time to learn more and more.

Every advice is very welcome!

Thank you!

I have been and still am very much involved in electronic flash usage and much of the old and current related technology for a very long time. Besides my full-time work in commercial and portrat photography, for about 25 years I was involved in a company that outfitted studios and sports venues with custom-designed and specially modified electronic flash systems.

Most of the brands you mention are good gear, some more sophisticated the others and perhaps some have too many "bells and whistles" that add to the price.

Over the years I have been asked many questions, like yours, as to "what should I buy"? I don't like to answer questions with more questions but there are some important things to consider.

My first question is "what are you shooting"? Portraits, products, still life fashions, sports, events, weddings in-studio or on location, or a mixture of specialties?

I don't mean the next question to be harsh or demeaning but you mention that you are not familiar with "studio strobes" etc., so what do you know about LIGHTING? There are two aspects of electronic flash technology, electronics and aesthetics. The electronics/specifications have to do with power output, recycling times, HHS capabilities, colour temperature consistency, longevity and all-around reliability and performance. Aesthetics are concerned with many of the same principles that apply to all photographic light sources such as the angle of incidence, light ratios, basic forms for portraiture, diffusion, fans fill techniques, the inverse square law, exposure management as per guide numbers, meters, or TTL integration wit you came system and more.

The aforementioned consideration has to do with selecting a lighting system based on specifications that address your needs as opposed to one brad name vs. another. Yes, more o less, in electronic, you get what you pay for but in some instances, you are paying for power, features, or complexities ta that you may never use.

"Studio lights" are a broad reference. There are many versions- monolights (self-contained), multiple lamp heads operating off a central power supply, and endless versions of both as to power, reflector interchangeability, mounting enablement for modifiers, and various kids modelling lamps. Many of the current monolights are battery operated and can be used on locations where no electrical power is available and out of doors,

You must also consider the cost of modifiers and ligh shaping accessories such as barn doors, snoots, grids, softboxes, umbrellas, and light stands, booms and support gear.

Another consideration is the eventual need for repair, parts and service. You want to make certn that he manufacturer or distributor in your geographic location will continue to offer service, and replacement parts for a reasonable length of time even after the warranty period expires.

In a multiple monoliths setup, you also need to consider the synchronization and trigger of the slave units. You can hard wire to one unit and trigger theatre via radio or photoelectric cell or use a controller on the came to control all the units.

Sometimes the advertised specification is meaningless in actual practice. For example, watt-seconds are not light". Guide numbers are often exaggerated and do not necessarily apply to various conditions, and some control systems can be constant sources of unnecessary sources fiddling around whereas a simple manual exposure method may be faster and easier to apply when a fast effective shooting is required.

My recommendation is the simpler the better. It's surprising what you can do with a simp set of strobes once you master the prerequisite techniques and get the feel of your system.

Let me know what you think! Good luck!


Ed Shapiro- Commercial and Portrait Photographer. Ottawa, Ontario Canada

 

[mujana]

Never shot with studio lights/flashes. I like to shoot portraits and mainly portraits. Head and full body. So far, only with natural light.

Just me, but if you've never shot with flash before, you may want to start with just a simple on-camera speedlight before rushing into a studio setup with monolights. To me, this is similar to a first-time IL-camera owner asking which f/1.4 primes to get without having even shot with a kit lens, first.

I think I didn’t express myself clear enough. Sorry for that. I never worked with studiolights / studioflashes before. I did use flashes before (on camera speedlights), mostly Metz in a distant past (film days). So, I still remember how they work.

Using flash requires disassembling everything you think you know about exposure and reassembling it with additional components: flash power, flash distance/placement/angle, attention to sync speed, ambient/flash balance, flash metering, etc.

For example, you're combining flash and ambient exposures in every shot.

Ambient exposure is controlled by iso, aperture, and shutter speed.

But flash exposure is controlled by iso, aperture, power, and flash-to-subject distance. At or below your camera body's sync speed, shutter speed has no effect on flash exposure because the flash burst will always be much faster than your shutter speed.

I know.

And flash and ambient can overlap in a scene.

An on-camera speedlight can teach you about flash metering/exposure, flash/ambient balance, and having some control over the intensity, direction, quality, and (with gels) color of your light. It's not as sexy or cool or versatile as off-camera. But all you have to buy and master is the speedlight, and you will have all the toys of battery-powered portability, small size, TTL, HSS, 2nd curtain, etc. available to you. Things you may have to give up with monolights—particularly AC-powered ones.

You will also have something go-light you can just shove in your camera bag while traveling, something you can use on-camera for event/social shooting or chasing kids/pets around the house where trailing a light on a stand behind you isn't practical.

That’s why at this moment I think, that I’ll probably only use it indoors (studio like setting). I don’t plan to travel with extra lights….speedlights or other. If it is possible to go with only batteries, then that’s ok. Still not sure if I’ll ever use it. Only AC could be more attractive price wise.

And you can also use speedlights off-camera these days. Certainly enough for you to use iso 200 and f/5.6 in a studio setting for portrait use, if possibly not iso 100 and f/8.

Correct! Thinking here.

So now I' m thinking about getting one or 2 lights for a start.

Just me, start with one light. I wouldn't proliferate until you know you've got the power/spread you want. A speedlight is at the lowest end of the totem pole on output and spread, but at least it gives you a point of reference. Think of it like getting a kit lens. You're already thinking about spending on a 24-70/2.8. Maybe it's what you need. But if it isn't, and you really needed a 35/1.4 or a 70-200/2.8 instead...

You’re right. When I take a final decision, I’ll have to be very sure. In the past I’ve tried a “cheap” start. Point of reference on the “lowest end of the totem pole” has sometimes stopped me from going up that totem pole all together. Just because of frustration of poor quality.

Chicken and the egg. To know what you want in a strobe; you need to have some experience with strobes.

Agree. I’m trying to make first experiences as positive as possible.

A speedlight can be a low-cost entry that is unique in letting you use it both on-camera for bouncing, as well as off-camera on stands.

In general, I prefer to go for the "best" material available (I experienced that the pleasure of using new gear also depends on quality; better quality often means less irritation. And sure there is a point of diminishing returns), but at the moment there are (financial) restrictions.

IOW, champagne tastes on a beer budget?

Well, for a start…maybe €2000,-?

Godox is great for this. You will have irritation but less than you might assume. The main issue is whether you're feature-creature enough to forego manufacturer warranty/customer support and factory repair and not mind just replacing something when it goes bad or is a lemon copy. B&H and Adorama will cover the warranty period on Godox gear with replacement copies.

I think that’s the same here in the Netherlands.

But Godox themselves may not reply to support emails or insist you ship the unit to Shenzhen for repair, which effectively totals it.

Westcott, Broncolor, Elinchrom, Profoto, etc. all have better reputation for customer service and repair, but are going to be more expensive.

Also because of quality?

Possibly more than twice as expensive. And none of them have quite as extensive or widely-used as system as Godox. And none of them offer a selection of speedlights to match Godox's, that can be integrated with their larger strobes. Westcott (which is rebranding Jinbei's RT system as their FJ system) and Profoto properly only offer one speedlight model.

So I was thinking ...Godox? Elinchrom? (others)? Maybe start with one good light (pay more) and add another later on? Or maybe a studio set with 2 lights?

One speedlight ($85-$260). On-camera.

Then off-camera with a single modifier.

THEN figure out how many/how big you need your lights to be and start contemplating the Godox/Elinchrom/Broncolor side of things.

... I' m shooting portraits indoors . Portability and batteries aren' t that important (although they could be attractive in future). Preferably HSS. Good CRI also.

CRI is for LED/continuous, not so much strobes (just assume you're near 100 on CRI with strobes); it's not really an issue or consideration. Color consistency over the power range might be, but that's not the same as CRI.

Getting HSS will typically mean coming with TTL and battery-power on IGBT-controlled strobes; not so much cheap AC voltage-controlled strobes. And if you're shooting posed subjects in a studio, you may never need it. HSS is if you're shooting in sunlight or need to freeze action and can't/don't want to kill the ambient. And you can get HSS off-camera over radio with a $70 speedlight (Godox TT600) if you want. Again, a speedlight has all the toys available for you to play with so you can choose whether or not you need them in a studio strobe.

Thank you. Usefull thoughts!

I do not want to use on-camera flashes.

Has it occurred to you that the reason you don't want to use an on-camera flash (even though, as you state you've never used flash) is that you don't yet know how to use one?

I know. (Like I said before; I wasn’t clear enough)

Yes, on-camera is more limited than off-camera lighting; but it doesn't mean looking like a pop-up flash either: you can get good natural-looking light from on-camera flash. It's also a helluva lot more convenient to just shove a speedlight in your camera bag than it is to pack a lighting bag to lug along with the camera bag.

(I probably will not take any flash on trips. If taking lighting gear, then probably only to another place with AC. Not sure yet.

David Hobby came up with using speedlights off-camera Strobing-style because he was tired of lugging his big heavy monolights (and big/heavy lightstands to support them) with him on assignment around town, and having to find nearby outlets for them. He needed to move lightly and quickly from assignment to assignment. And tiny battery powered speedlights made everything easier for him.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts!

 

[Don89]

I’ve been using Elinchrom since 1995. All units of differing age still work flawlessly. I have 9. 2 are battery units, all work with the same triggers.

I do use Broncolor Modifiers. Para 222 and 133 and a few soft boxes and strip lights, umbrellas and the like. Modifiers matter a great deal in producing quality images. More so than the strobe brand.

If I was starting out today, I’d likely grab some used Broncolor Strobes and packs. I’ve been super happy with Elinchrom though. Sometimes though, Broncolor would be nicer.

--
I am the copyright owner of my work. Please don’t take or alter my images.

 

[mujana]

Hello everyone. First time post on this specific forum (I think).

Never shot with studio lights/flashes. I like to shoot portraits and mainly portraits. Head and full body. So far, only with natural light. Did so for many years. Especially with newer cameras, not a big problem to crank up iso. I always had the impression, that using studio strobes would be unnecessarily complicated. Also avoiding the proces of learning new stuff.

I was wrong ofcourse. Tried Broncolor at a professional photo fair just a few weeks ago and I was impressed by the ease of just shooting models at iso100 f8 indoors and everything looked natural en sharp. And....ofcourse visibly better than portraits with iso 1600/3200/etc. (what I used often, out of necessity).

So now I' m thinking about getting one or 2 lights for a start. In general, I prefer to go for the "best" material available (I experienced that the pleasure of using new gear also depends on quality; better quality often means less irritation. And sure there is a point of diminishing returns), but at the moment there are (financial) restrictions. I think Broncolor is out of the question for this reason. As probably is ProPhoto (both because of price).

So I was thinking ...Godox? Elinchrom? (others)? Maybe start with one good light (pay more) and add another later on? Or maybe a studio set with 2 lights?

These look attractive, but no experience here:

Elicnchrome ELB 500 TTL Dual to go set

Elinchrom ELC 125/500 set

(combination of Godox AD400 Pro and AD600Pro)?

Or maybe only one ProPhoto studio light to start with?

I' m shooting portraits indoors . Portability and batteries aren' t that important (although they could be attractive in future). Preferably HSS. Good CRI also. I do not want to use on-camera flashes.

Ofcourse I read many things on the internet already, but I find personal experiences very valuable (subjective as they may be). I still have more than enough time to learn more and more.

Every advice is very welcome!

Thank you!

I have been and still am very much involved in electronic flash usage and much of the old and current related technology for a very long time. Besides my full-time work in commercial and portrat photography, for about 25 years I was involved in a company that outfitted studios and sports venues with custom-designed and specially modified electronic flash systems.

Most of the brands you mention are good gear, some more sophisticated the others and perhaps some have too many "bells and whistles" that add to the price.

Over the years I have been asked many questions, like yours, as to "what should I buy"? I don't like to answer questions with more questions but there are some important things to consider.

My first question is "what are you shooting"? Portraits, products, still life fashions, sports, events, weddings in-studio or on location, or a mixture of specialties?

I don't mean the next question to be harsh or demeaning but you mention that you are not familiar with "studio strobes" etc., so what do you know about LIGHTING? There are two aspects of electronic flash technology, electronics and aesthetics. The electronics/specifications have to do with power output, recycling times, HHS capabilities, colour temperature consistency, longevity and all-around reliability and performance. Aesthetics are concerned with many of the same principles that apply to all photographic light sources such as the angle of incidence, light ratios, basic forms for portraiture, diffusion, fans fill techniques, the inverse square law, exposure management as per guide numbers, meters, or TTL integration wit you came system and more.

The aforementioned consideration has to do with selecting a lighting system based on specifications that address your needs as opposed to one brad name vs. another. Yes, more o less, in electronic, you get what you pay for but in some instances, you are paying for power, features, or complexities ta that you may never use.

"Studio lights" are a broad reference. There are many versions- monolights (self-contained), multiple lamp heads operating off a central power supply, and endless versions of both as to power, reflector interchangeability, mounting enablement for modifiers, and various kids modelling lamps. Many of the current monolights are battery operated and can be used on locations where no electrical power is available and out of doors,

You must also consider the cost of modifiers and ligh shaping accessories such as barn doors, snoots, grids, softboxes, umbrellas, and light stands, booms and support gear.

Another consideration is the eventual need for repair, parts and service. You want to make certn that he manufacturer or distributor in your geographic location will continue to offer service, and replacement parts for a reasonable length of time even after the warranty period expires.

In a multiple monoliths setup, you also need to consider the synchronization and trigger of the slave units. You can hard wire to one unit and trigger theatre via radio or photoelectric cell or use a controller on the came to control all the units.

Sometimes the advertised specification is meaningless in actual practice. For example, watt-seconds are not light". Guide numbers are often exaggerated and do not necessarily apply to various conditions, and some control systems can be constant sources of unnecessary sources fiddling around whereas a simple manual exposure method may be faster and easier to apply when a fast effective shooting is required.

My recommendation is the simpler the better. It's surprising what you can do with a simp set of strobes once you master the prerequisite techniques and get the feel of your system.

Let me know what you think! Good luck!

Ed Shapiro- Commercial and Portrait Photographer. Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Wow Ed! Thank you very much for your extensive reaction! 99% of my usage of such studio lights will be portraits. Face/full body and sometimes 2/3 or 4 persons. Very probable not outdoors.

”…eventual need for repair/parts and service..” and “….the simpler the better….”
2 very helpfull remarks (as is the rest of your post).

I do have experience in photography, except not (yet) studio lighting/lights. Looking forward to this new experience.

 

[mujana]

I’ve been using Elinchrom since 1995. All units of differing age still work flawlessly. I have 9. 2 are battery units, all work with the same triggers.

I do use Broncolor Modifiers. Para 222 and 133 and a few soft boxes and strip lights, umbrellas and the like. Modifiers matter a great deal in producing quality images. More so than the strobe brand.

If I was starting out today, I’d likely grab some used Broncolor Strobes and packs. I’ve been super happy with Elinchrom though. Sometimes though, Broncolor would be nicer.

 

[kli]

I think I didn’t express myself clear enough. Sorry for that. I never worked with studiolights / studioflashes before.

Ah, yes, that's different then. It's just you said "beginner questions." and were asking about things like CRI.

I did use flashes before (on camera speedlights), mostly Metz in a distant past (film days). So, I still remember how they work.

Got it. However, in digital days, thing are a little different with speedlights, primarily because today's digital cameras can deliver at much higher ISO settings than back in the days of film when you were limited to 400 and below. And today, we also have allthe tools to mount one on a stand with a monolight modifierand fire it as well as remote control the settings over radio, in concert with the studio lights.

Speedlights roughly equate to 70 Ws on a monolight, so vs. a 500 Ws strobe, that's about 1/8th the power, or roughly -3EV. So iso 100 to iso 800 could cover the power difference. But. Obviously, not the spread or pattern difference. Fresnel heads on speedlights have hotspots (which is why the round heads are becoming a thing) and tend to concentrate the light into a tighter beam, so don't fill large modifiers are fully or evenly.

BTW, one more feature that wasn't around in film days: TTL locking. TTL has, up until the last handful of years, been all but useless for off-camera work. But today most of the triggering systems not only do TTL, they also may do TTL locking, which is converting the TTL-set power level to an M setting to lock in the level. So, no more shot-to-shot variance once you hit the power level you want. TTL can make changes to iso, aperture, or light placement transparent to the flash exposure. And these days, the triggering systems let you mix TTL and M groups of lights.

... you will have all the toys of battery-powered portability, small size, TTL, HSS, 2nd curtain, etc. available to you. Things you may have to give up with monolights—particularly AC-powered ones.

You will also have something go-light you can just shove in your camera bag while traveling, something you can use on-camera for event/social shooting or chasing kids/pets around the house where trailing a light on a stand behind you isn't practical.

That’s why at this moment I think, that I’ll probably only use it indoors (studio like setting). I don’t plan to travel with extra lights….speedlights or other. If it is possible to go with only batteries, then that’s ok. Still not sure if I’ll ever use it. Only AC could be more attractive price wise.

AC can be a lot more attractive price-wise. Godox makes a $110 300 Ws MS300 light which basically costs the same as speedlight. But. It's voltage-controlled and bare bones (only the QT II series and the AD Witstros are IGBT-controlled).

The AD Witstros, particularly the larger ones, can have optional AC adapters, if you want to work with them plugged into a wall outlet. And some have extension heads for boom use. Things more traditional monolights may or may not offer.

It's M only (no TTL, no HSS), and because it's not IGBT, its pulse duration may not be quite fast enough to freeze action. Its minimum power setting is 1/32 power. It also doesn't autodump (i.e., if you change the setting from a higher power level to a lower one, you must manually dump the accumulated charge [hit the test button] before taking a shot at the new power level]. And it uses the Bowens S mount for modifiers.

The different brands of strobes use different bayonet modifier mounts, so this may restrict your choices/price ranges of modifiers as well, or require you to swap out speedrings or get mount modifiers.

Just me, start with one light. I wouldn't proliferate until you know you've got the power/spread you want...

You’re right. When I take a final decision, I’ll have to be very sure. In the past I’ve tried a “cheap” start. Point of reference on the “lowest end of the totem pole” has sometimes stopped me from going up that totem pole all together. Just because of frustration of poor quality.

Yes. But a C-stand and Profoto might be overkill, too.

Chicken and the egg. To know what you want in a strobe; you need to have some experience with strobes.

Agree. I’m trying to make first experiences as positive as possible.

Well, for a start…maybe €2000,-?

More expensive than I know about. I'm primarily a Godox speedlight shooter. But sounds like Elinchrom might be worth looking into if Godox doesn't feel solid enough for you.

...But Godox themselves may not reply to support emails or insist you ship the unit to Shenzhen for repair, which effectively totals it.

Westcott, Broncolor, Elinchrom, Profoto, etc. all have better reputation for customer service and repair, but are going to be more expensive.

Also because of quality?

To a certain extent. Godox is solid enough for professionals to recommend them, but Godox arrives at the lower price tags by pushing customer/warranty support onto retailers and they probably have less integration testing and QA. And sourcing components from suppliers who probably do the same. While the majority of their copies are solid, the occasional lemon does turn up. And they sometimes have bugs because Godox is trying to support cross-brand TTL/HSS for six brands of cameras, and may not have tested as thoroughly as they could, without access to newer camera bodies.

It's possibly a tradeoff between traditional knowhow and build quality vs. innovation. Godox lights are possibly not likely to last you decades like the brand names, but they've also helped to change the face of lighting systems rapidly over the last decade and have introduced some features that it's taken a while for other brands to incorporate.

(I probably will not take any flash on trips. If taking lighting gear, then probably only to another place with AC. Not sure yet.

Possibly another reason not to go Godox, since you may want to consider rentability for destination shooting that will fit your modifiers. But you do want to consider whether you may want to use lights on location locally.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts!

You're welcome! Thanks for clarifying what you meant about not using flashes. That makes the picture clearer.

 

[BAK]

Go to YouTube and watch Daniel Norton and Gavin Hoey videos. Both have lots of programs showing you how to use flash units on top of light stands.

Follow Ellis' advice, and buy a flash meter. The lowest-priced Sekonic 308 series is fine.

Buy two Godox AD300 flash guns, a Lastolight Tri Grip white and silver, a Godox 3-foot Octobox with a black cover, a 12-18 inch white umbrella with a black cover and another one about 4 or 5 feet.

Get a Godox flash trigger.

That should use up your budget.

BAK

 

[mujana]

I think I didn’t express myself clear enough. Sorry for that. I never worked with studiolights / studioflashes before.

Ah, yes, that's different then. It's just you said "beginner questions." and were asking about things like CRI.

I did use flashes before (on camera speedlights), mostly Metz in a distant past (film days). So, I still remember how they work.

Got it. However, in digital days, thing are a little different with speedlights, primarily because today's digital cameras can deliver at much higher ISO settings than back in the days of film when you were limited to 400 and below. And today, we also have allthe tools to mount one on a stand with a monolight modifierand fire it as well as remote control the settings over radio, in concert with the studio lights.

Speedlights roughly equate to 70 Ws on a monolight, so vs. a 500 Ws strobe, that's about 1/8th the power, or roughly -3EV. So iso 100 to iso 800 could cover the power difference. But. Obviously, not the spread or pattern difference. Fresnel heads on speedlights have hotspots (which is why the round heads are becoming a thing) and tend to concentrate the light into a tighter beam, so don't fill large modifiers are fully or evenly.

BTW, one more feature that wasn't around in film days: TTL locking. TTL has, up until the last handful of years, been all but useless for off-camera work. But today most of the triggering systems not only do TTL, they also may do TTL locking, which is converting the TTL-set power level to an M setting to lock in the level. So, no more shot-to-shot variance once you hit the power level you want. TTL can make changes to iso, aperture, or light placement transparent to the flash exposure. And these days, the triggering systems let you mix TTL and M groups of lights.

... you will have all the toys of battery-powered portability, small size, TTL, HSS, 2nd curtain, etc. available to you. Things you may have to give up with monolights—particularly AC-powered ones.

You will also have something go-light you can just shove in your camera bag while traveling, something you can use on-camera for event/social shooting or chasing kids/pets around the house where trailing a light on a stand behind you isn't practical.

That’s why at this moment I think, that I’ll probably only use it indoors (studio like setting). I don’t plan to travel with extra lights….speedlights or other. If it is possible to go with only batteries, then that’s ok. Still not sure if I’ll ever use it. Only AC could be more attractive price wise.

AC can be a lot more attractive price-wise. Godox makes a $110 300 Ws MS300 light which basically costs the same as speedlight. But. It's voltage-controlled and bare bones (only the QT II series and the AD Witstros are IGBT-controlled).

The AD Witstros, particularly the larger ones, can have optional AC adapters, if you want to work with them plugged into a wall outlet. And some have extension heads for boom use. Things more traditional monolights may or may not offer.

It's M only (no TTL, no HSS), and because it's not IGBT, its pulse duration may not be quite fast enough to freeze action. Its minimum power setting is 1/32 power. It also doesn't autodump (i.e., if you change the setting from a higher power level to a lower one, you must manually dump the accumulated charge [hit the test button] before taking a shot at the new power level]. And it uses the Bowens S mount for modifiers.

The different brands of strobes use different bayonet modifier mounts, so this may restrict your choices/price ranges of modifiers as well, or require you to swap out speedrings or get mount modifiers.

Just me, start with one light. I wouldn't proliferate until you know you've got the power/spread you want...

You’re right. When I take a final decision, I’ll have to be very sure. In the past I’ve tried a “cheap” start. Point of reference on the “lowest end of the totem pole” has sometimes stopped me from going up that totem pole all together. Just because of frustration of poor quality.

Yes. But a C-stand and Profoto might be overkill, too.

Chicken and the egg. To know what you want in a strobe; you need to have some experience with strobes.

Agree. I’m trying to make first experiences as positive as possible.

Well, for a start…maybe €2000,-?

More expensive than I know about. I'm primarily a Godox speedlight shooter. But sounds like Elinchrom might be worth looking into if Godox doesn't feel solid enough for you.

...But Godox themselves may not reply to support emails or insist you ship the unit to Shenzhen for repair, which effectively totals it.

Westcott, Broncolor, Elinchrom, Profoto, etc. all have better reputation for customer service and repair, but are going to be more expensive.

Also because of quality?

To a certain extent. Godox is solid enough for professionals to recommend them, but Godox arrives at the lower price tags by pushing customer/warranty support onto retailers and they probably have less integration testing and QA. And sourcing components from suppliers who probably do the same. While the majority of their copies are solid, the occasional lemon does turn up. And they sometimes have bugs because Godox is trying to support cross-brand TTL/HSS for six brands of cameras, and may not have tested as thoroughly as they could, without access to newer camera bodies.

It's possibly a tradeoff between traditional knowhow and build quality vs. innovation. Godox lights are possibly not likely to last you decades like the brand names, but they've also helped to change the face of lighting systems rapidly over the last decade and have introduced some features that it's taken a while for other brands to incorporate.

(I probably will not take any flash on trips. If taking lighting gear, then probably only to another place with AC. Not sure yet.

Possibly another reason not to go Godox, since you may want to consider rentability for destination shooting that will fit your modifiers. But you do want to consider whether you may want to use lights on location locally.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts!

You're welcome! Thanks for clarifying what you meant about not using flashes. That makes the picture clearer.

Very informative! Lots to think about. Thank you again!

 

[mujana]

Go to YouTube and watch Daniel Norton and Gavin Hoey videos. Both have lots of programs showing you how to use flash units on top of light stands.

Follow Ellis' advice, and buy a flash meter. The lowest-priced Sekonic 308 series is fine.

Buy two Godox AD300 flash guns, a Lastolight Tri Grip white and silver, a Godox 3-foot Octobox with a black cover, a 12-18 inch white umbrella with a black cover and another one about 4 or 5 feet.

Get a Godox flash trigger.

That should use up your budget.

BAK

Thank you BAK. I’ll watch those videos!

 

[ronscuba]

Hello everyone. First time post on this specific forum (I think).

Never shot with studio lights/flashes. I like to shoot portraits and mainly portraits. Head and full body. So far, only with natural light. Did so for many years. Especially with newer cameras, not a big problem to crank up iso. I always had the impression, that using studio strobes would be unnecessarily complicated. Also avoiding the proces of learning new stuff.

I was wrong ofcourse. Tried Broncolor at a professional photo fair just a few weeks ago and I was impressed by the ease of just shooting models at iso100 f8 indoors and everything looked natural en sharp. And....ofcourse visibly better than portraits with iso 1600/3200/etc. (what I used often, out of necessity).

So now I' m thinking about getting one or 2 lights for a start. In general, I prefer to go for the "best" material available (I experienced that the pleasure of using new gear also depends on quality; better quality often means less irritation. And sure there is a point of diminishing returns), but at the moment there are (financial) restrictions. I think Broncolor is out of the question for this reason. As probably is ProPhoto (both because of price).

So I was thinking ...Godox? Elinchrom? (others)? Maybe start with one good light (pay more) and add another later on? Or maybe a studio set with 2 lights?

These look attractive, but no experience here:

Elicnchrome ELB 500 TTL Dual to go set

Elinchrom ELC 125/500 set

(combination of Godox AD400 Pro and AD600Pro)?

Or maybe only one ProPhoto studio light to start with?

I' m shooting portraits indoors . Portability and batteries aren' t that important (although they could be attractive in future). Preferably HSS. Good CRI also. I do not want to use on-camera flashes.

Ofcourse I read many things on the internet already, but I find personal experiences very valuable (subjective as they may be). I still have more than enough time to learn more and more.

Every advice is very welcome!

Thank you!

What is your total budget for everything and where do you plan to shoot ? I ask because it is not just lights. You will need stands, modifiers, backgrounds. Costs can add up quickly, so I think looking at the overall budget is important.

For example, you said portability and batteries are not important, but you listed battery powered strobes. Switching to AC powered strobes will allow $ to be spent on other items.

Thnxs ronscuba! I’d like to start with a maximum of €2000,-

Some items you will need to start, with rough cost:

Quality light stand: 150 euro

Sand bag: 25 euro

Umbrella with diffuser: 40 euro

Softbox with grid: 80 euro

.

2 Elinchrom AC powered lights and a trigger will use most of your budget.

Godox AC powered lights and trigger will be much less expensive.

Your choice comes down to a 1 light Elinchrom setup, increase your budget for a 2 light Elinchrom setup, 2 light Godox setup with $ left over.

--
https://www.ronchauphoto.com/
https://www.instagram.com/rchau.photo