GFX 100sii vs X2D: Color Comparison

[Last Mango]

I picked up a used 100sii as I wanted to do a more balanced comparison of colors between the 100sii and X2D, more so for my own curiosity to see if there is really a meaningful difference. I used the 45 f/2.8, and 55v. I tried to shoot both cameras at the same ISO and aperture, but let each meter the shutter speed using minus 1/3 exp comp. Processed in Lightroom, X2D: used embedded profile and as shot AWB, applied camera correction, 100sii: used provia with as shot AWB or auto AWB (selected based on what I though produced best result), and applied corrections. Applied no or very light edits and tried to shoot various colors (greens, yellow, red, etc.).

What did I learn? I liked the X2D colors in some, GFX in others and others were very similar. I purposely did not used Phocus because it would not be part of my workflow (too cumbersome). At the end of the day, both are excellent cameras and will pick the one I enjoy using the most.

Rod

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[kciuk aka Ken60]

Thanks Rod, what an interesting series. If you still are able , and have the time, it would be nice to see a few shots like these where both cameras were set for firstly "daylight" colour balance, and then 5500 Kelvin. Of course both shot outdoors in daylight.

 

[Schrodingers cat]

I liked the X2D colors in some, GFX in others and others were very similar.

I think this is a particularly suitable approach, especially in an environment of extensive testing and concern with minutiae. Can't see the forest for the trees, and all that.

 

[yogi4fitness]

I picked up a used 100sii as I wanted to do a more balanced comparison of colors between the 100sii and X2D, more so for my own curiosity to see if there is really a meaningful difference. I used the 45 f/2.8, and 55v. I tried to shoot both cameras at the same ISO and aperture, but let each meter the shutter speed using minus 1/3 exp comp. Processed in Lightroom, X2D: used embedded profile and as shot AWB, applied camera correction, 100sii: used provia with as shot AWB or auto AWB (selected based on what I though produced best result), and applied corrections. Applied no or very light edits and tried to shoot various colors (greens, yellow, red, etc.).

What did I learn? I liked the X2D colors in some, GFX in others and others were very similar.

The Fuji colors are more pleasing to my eye but I can see they are biased towards magenta. The X2D colors might be more accurate. You have to use Phocus to get the best out of HNCS.

I purposely did not used Phocus because it would not be part of my workflow (too cumbersome). At the end of the day, both are excellent cameras and will pick the one I enjoy using the most.

I pick the Hasselblad for fun personal shooting because it handles better and is a joy to shoot, but choose the Fuji for paid/critical professional work as the glass has better image fidelity.

Rod

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[Last Mango]

Thanks Rod, what an interesting series. If you still are able , and have the time, it would be nice to see a few shots like these where both cameras were set for firstly "daylight" colour balance, and then 5500 Kelvin. Of course both shot outdoors in daylight.

Sorry, already off loaded the 100sii and all my fuji glass (needed to burn the ships)...the X2D spoke to me more, but need to round out a landscape lens lineup. I have the 55v, and might go with 28, 55, 75 and 135....but am thinking that the 38, 90 and 135 might be better.

 

[Last Mango]

What did I learn? I liked the X2D colors in some, GFX in others and others were very similar.

The Fuji colors are more pleasing to my eye but I can see they are biased towards magenta. The X2D colors might be more accurate. You have to use Phocus to get the best out of HNCS.

Well, at least we have that settled

I purposely did not used Phocus because it would not be part of my workflow (too cumbersome). At the end of the day, both are excellent cameras and will pick the one I enjoy using the most.

I pick the Hasselblad for fun personal shooting because it handles better and is a joy to shoot, but choose the Fuji for paid/critical professional work as the glass has better image fidelity.

I do this for my own enjoyment which is why I decided on the Hasselblad, using them side by side, I was drawn more to the Hassy, design, grip and simplicity of the X2D were awesome. I was all set to go with the 100sii, 20-35, 45-100 and 100-200 (and 45), but that is a big kit that did not elicit any joy. We'll see how the X2D with 3-4 works out.

Rod

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[yogi4fitness]

What did I learn? I liked the X2D colors in some, GFX in others and others were very similar.

To the untrained eye and especially if the images are shown at different times (not as a direct comparison) there is practically no difference between the images. 99% of the people won't know which camera the images came from.

You really need to use Phocus to see the colors from Hasselblad

The Fuji colors are more pleasing to my eye but I can see they are biased towards magenta. The X2D colors might be more accurate. You have to use Phocus to get the best out of HNCS.

Well, at least we have that settled

Most certainly. I always maintained Hasselblad colors were discernably more accurate.

I purposely did not used Phocus because it would not be part of my workflow (too cumbersome). At the end of the day, both are excellent cameras and will pick the one I enjoy using the most.

I pick the Hasselblad for fun personal shooting because it handles better and is a joy to shoot, but choose the Fuji for paid/critical professional work as the glass has better image fidelity.

I do this for my own enjoyment which is why I decided on the Hasselblad, using them side by side, I was drawn more to the Hassy, design, grip and simplicity of the X2D were awesome. I was all set to go with the 100sii, 20-35, 45-100 and 100-200 (and 45), but that is a big kit that did not elicit any joy. We'll see how the X2D with 3-4 works out.

Agree

Hasselblad is more fun to shoot with any day.

Rod

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[Rand 47]

My experience editing and printing for folk using many different cameras for capture confirms what I’m seeing here. There’s not a nickel’s worth of difference between the two. Color perception and appearance is DRAMATICALLY impacted by the photographer and his/her workflow and choice of editing software, FAR beyond any native differences - especially with cameras using the same sensor.

Rand

 

[SrMi]

My experience editing and printing for folk using many different cameras for capture confirms what I’m seeing here. There’s not a nickel’s worth of difference between the two. Color perception and appearance is DRAMATICALLY impacted by the photographer and his/her workflow and choice of editing software, FAR beyond any native differences - especially with cameras using the same sensor.

Rand

X2D and GFX 100 s II do not have the same sensor (different toppings), and raw massaging is different..

 

[JimKasson]

My experience editing and printing for folk using many different cameras for capture confirms what I’m seeing here. There’s not a nickel’s worth of difference between the two. Color perception and appearance is DRAMATICALLY impacted by the photographer and his/her workflow and choice of editing software, FAR beyond any native differences - especially with cameras using the same sensor.

Rand

X2D and GFX 100 s II do not have the same sensor (different toppings), and raw massaging is different..

Can you be specific about the differences between the toppings?

 

[Miriquidi]

Can you be specific about the differences between the toppings?

To get definitive answers, one has to do some spectral sensitivity measurements. Take a prism monochromator, focus to patch behind the output slit and measure the spectrum between 380 and 800 nm in M-exposure mode. With that info one could get the spectral RGB sensitivity curves.

Sadly I don't have time right now for that kind of nerdyness.

 

[Miriquidi]

The Fuji colors are more pleasing to my eye but I can see they are biased towards magenta. The X2D colors might be more accurate. You have to use Phocus to get the best out of HNCS.

Well, at least we have that settled

Most certainly. I always maintained Hasselblad colors were discernably more accurate.

Is this a marketing thing or real? And how about comparison with a real MF camera from Phase One (with Capture One).

Although I personally think, that a lot of the colour accuracy comes from correct lighting of the scene. Best should be probably tungsten light with a too short life time directly onto the subject. In case of sun light also the surrounding of the subject has a lot of impact (green foliage, red clinker walls, ...).

 

[SrMi]

My experience editing and printing for folk using many different cameras for capture confirms what I’m seeing here. There’s not a nickel’s worth of difference between the two. Color perception and appearance is DRAMATICALLY impacted by the photographer and his/her workflow and choice of editing software, FAR beyond any native differences - especially with cameras using the same sensor.

Rand

X2D and GFX 100 s II do not have the same sensor (different toppings), and raw massaging is different..

Can you be specific about the differences between the toppings?

We know that the number of PDAF rows is different. We know that CFA can be customized for Sony sensors. We know that microlenses can be different (M11 vs a7rV). Other than that, we do not know whether they are using the same or different CFA.

--
https://blog.kasson.com

 

[Rand 47]

My experience editing and printing for folk using many different cameras for capture confirms what I’m seeing here. There’s not a nickel’s worth of difference between the two. Color perception and appearance is DRAMATICALLY impacted by the photographer and his/her workflow and choice of editing software, FAR beyond any native differences - especially with cameras using the same sensor.

Rand

X2D and GFX 100 s II do not have the same sensor (different toppings), and raw massaging is different..

A distinction w/o a difference for the point I was making, if true. The point being, with ALL the modern sensors out there of “X” general specs, the chosen editing software and the person “at the wheel” make as much, and most of the time more difference, than the machines themselves. The idea that one camera has “better color” than another is pretty much a myth. In the samples provided I preferred the Fuji files, but could make all of the Hassy files look “just like that” or vice versa w/ little effort.

Rand

 

[JimKasson]

My experience editing and printing for folk using many different cameras for capture confirms what I’m seeing here. There’s not a nickel’s worth of difference between the two. Color perception and appearance is DRAMATICALLY impacted by the photographer and his/her workflow and choice of editing software, FAR beyond any native differences - especially with cameras using the same sensor.

Rand

X2D and GFX 100 s II do not have the same sensor (different toppings), and raw massaging is different..

Can you be specific about the differences between the toppings?

We know that the number of PDAF rows is different. We know that CFA can be customized for Sony sensors. We know that microlenses can be different (M11 vs a7rV). Other than that, we do not know whether they are using the same or different CFA.

It sounds like you are saying that we know that one thing is different.

 

[SrMi]

My experience editing and printing for folk using many different cameras for capture confirms what I’m seeing here. There’s not a nickel’s worth of difference between the two. Color perception and appearance is DRAMATICALLY impacted by the photographer and his/her workflow and choice of editing software, FAR beyond any native differences - especially with cameras using the same sensor.

Rand

X2D and GFX 100 s II do not have the same sensor (different toppings), and raw massaging is different..

Can you be specific about the differences between the toppings?

We know that the number of PDAF rows is different. We know that CFA can be customized for Sony sensors. We know that microlenses can be different (M11 vs a7rV). Other than that, we do not know whether they are using the same or different CFA.

It sounds like you are saying that we know that one thing is different.

I should have said that we cannot assume that different cameras have the same sensor toppings because they are based on the same sensor technology. See also difference in microlenses between X1D and GFX50.

--
https://blog.kasson.com

 

[SrMi]

My experience editing and printing for folk using many different cameras for capture confirms what I’m seeing here. There’s not a nickel’s worth of difference between the two. Color perception and appearance is DRAMATICALLY impacted by the photographer and his/her workflow and choice of editing software, FAR beyond any native differences - especially with cameras using the same sensor.

Rand

X2D and GFX 100 s II do not have the same sensor (different toppings), and raw massaging is different..

A distinction w/o a difference for the point I was making, if true.

I assumed that by "using the same sensor" you inferred that the raw data coming out of the camera is the same.

The point being, with ALL the modern sensors out there of “X” general specs, the chosen editing software and the person “at the wheel” make as much, and most of the time more difference, than the machines themselves.

That is true even for cameras with different sensors.

The idea that one camera has “better color” than another is pretty much a myth. In the samples provided I preferred the Fuji files, but could make all of the Hassy files look “just like that” or vice versa w/ little effort.

The fact is that some prefer the output of a camera A over a camera B (M11 vs M10, Sony vs Nikon, Hasselblad vs. Fuji, and any other combination). Even if you could make them look similar, it is always better to start with a version that works better for you instead of trying to constantly mimick the output of the other camera.

In my case, I do not prefer Hasselblad over Fuji because of difference in colors.

Rand

 

[Rand 47]

My experience editing and printing for folk using many different cameras for capture confirms what I’m seeing here. There’s not a nickel’s worth of difference between the two. Color perception and appearance is DRAMATICALLY impacted by the photographer and his/her workflow and choice of editing software, FAR beyond any native differences - especially with cameras using the same sensor.

Rand

X2D and GFX 100 s II do not have the same sensor (different toppings), and raw massaging is different..

A distinction w/o a difference for the point I was making, if true.

I assumed that by "using the same sensor" you inferred that the raw data coming out of the camera is the same.

The point being, with ALL the modern sensors out there of “X” general specs, the chosen editing software and the person “at the wheel” make as much, and most of the time more difference, than the machines themselves.

That is true even for cameras with different sensors.

The idea that one camera has “better color” than another is pretty much a myth. In the samples provided I preferred the Fuji files, but could make all of the Hassy files look “just like that” or vice versa w/ little effort.

The fact is that some prefer the output of a camera A over a camera B (M11 vs M10, Sony vs Nikon, Hasselblad vs. Fuji, and any other combination). Even if you could make them look similar, it is always better to start with a version that works better for you instead of trying to constantly mimick the output of the other camera.

In my case, I do not prefer Hasselblad over Fuji because of difference in colors.

Rand

I either, re Fujifilm over Hassy. The greater flexibility of Fujifilm, the price / performance aspect, the operational characteristics, and other factors tip the scale toward Fuji for me.

But, all that is beyond the OP’s subject.

Rand

 

[yogi4fitness]

My experience editing and printing for folk using many different cameras for capture confirms what I’m seeing here. There’s not a nickel’s worth of difference between the two. Color perception and appearance is DRAMATICALLY impacted by the photographer and his/her workflow and choice of editing software, FAR beyond any native differences - especially with cameras using the same sensor.

Rand

X2D and GFX 100 s II do not have the same sensor (different toppings), and raw massaging is different..

Can you be specific about the differences between the toppings?

We know that the number of PDAF rows is different. We know that CFA can be customized for Sony sensors. We know that microlenses can be different (M11 vs a7rV). Other than that, we do not know whether they are using the same or different CFA.

It sounds like you are saying that we know that one thing is different.

I should have said that we cannot assume that different cameras have the same sensor toppings because they are based on the same sensor technology. See also difference in microlenses between X1D and GFX50.

What are the differences between the micro lenses of the X1D and GFX50? Is there an article on this?

--
https://blog.kasson.com

 

[JimKasson]

What are the differences between the micro lenses of the X1D and GFX50? Is there an article on this?

I'd be interested in hearing about this, too. When I tested the GFX 50x cameras, I found the effective aperture of the microlens array to be well below what would be required for 100% fill factor. I haven't seen measurements on the X1D.