getting frustrated with "soft" images (717)

Nukester

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Ok. I have tried just about everything, yet cannot get the same sharpness that I achieved with my F707. Even with UM the images don't pop like my 707 did right out of the camera! What camera on the market gives the best out of the camera pictures that don't need a lot of post-work. I've looked at the Fuji S2, but with the 8X8 on the horizon should I just wait?

I typically shoot in manual mode, tried center and multi-focus, iso 100, 0 sharpening, 1 sharpening, fine mode, best resilution.

Thanks.
 
You sound so frustrated! Sorry to hear that. :-)

Question: How are your exposures? Are you over-exposing at all? Could we see a gallery with some samples?
Ok. I have tried just about everything, yet cannot get the same
sharpness that I achieved with my F707. Even with UM the images
don't pop like my 707 did right out of the camera! What camera on
the market gives the best out of the camera pictures that don't
need a lot of post-work. I've looked at the Fuji S2, but with the
8X8 on the horizon should I just wait?

I typically shoot in manual mode, tried center and multi-focus, iso
100, 0 sharpening, 1 sharpening, fine mode, best resilution.

Thanks.
--

Ulysses
 
I'll bet that the 828 will have contrast and saturation adjustments. That might be what you're missing.

Have a look at a V1 and see if the adjustments make a difference for you.
Ok. I have tried just about everything, yet cannot get the same
sharpness that I achieved with my F707. Even with UM the images
don't pop like my 707 did right out of the camera! What camera on
the market gives the best out of the camera pictures that don't
need a lot of post-work. I've looked at the Fuji S2, but with the
8X8 on the horizon should I just wait?

I typically shoot in manual mode, tried center and multi-focus, iso
100, 0 sharpening, 1 sharpening, fine mode, best resilution.

Thanks.
 
Ulysses, yes I am very frustrated. I mainly shoot pictures for our family scrap-book. Though that seems basic, my wife and I take a lot of pride in it. I will put up a host of shots taken yesterday when I get home from work. Don't be too critical. They are meant to be non-staged pictures of the kids and wife just "doing their thing". They are very unprofessional as far as a "studio" look is concerned, but we want it that way. I just want pictures that have good contrast, color saturation and most of all, SHARP.

I don't think they are over-exposed, the histogram is usually centered nicely. Thanks for your concern, and yes. I NEED HELP.
Question: How are your exposures? Are you over-exposing at all?
Could we see a gallery with some samples?
Ok. I have tried just about everything, yet cannot get the same
sharpness that I achieved with my F707. Even with UM the images
don't pop like my 707 did right out of the camera! What camera on
the market gives the best out of the camera pictures that don't
need a lot of post-work. I've looked at the Fuji S2, but with the
8X8 on the horizon should I just wait?

I typically shoot in manual mode, tried center and multi-focus, iso
100, 0 sharpening, 1 sharpening, fine mode, best resilution.

Thanks.
--

Ulysses
 
Thanks for the tip. Going to borrow it for the night.
Have a look at a V1 and see if the adjustments make a difference
for you.
Ok. I have tried just about everything, yet cannot get the same
sharpness that I achieved with my F707. Even with UM the images
don't pop like my 707 did right out of the camera! What camera on
the market gives the best out of the camera pictures that don't
need a lot of post-work. I've looked at the Fuji S2, but with the
8X8 on the horizon should I just wait?

I typically shoot in manual mode, tried center and multi-focus, iso
100, 0 sharpening, 1 sharpening, fine mode, best resilution.

Thanks.
 
I also am a sharpness fanatic which is why I kept my 707 and did not go to the 717. I was just not seeing the same level of sharpness that I was used to with my sweet little 707. On the other hand the V1 is just as sharp as the 707, so I have the best of both worlds (although the V1 is supposed to be my partners ). I am, like everyone else on the forum waiting for the announcement of the next Sony. All other features aside if it is sharp I will move up if not I will wait for something better that is.>

--
Sharon
http://www.digitalabyrinth.com
http://www.pbase.com/sharonh/profile
Sony F707, U20 and V1
 
Nukester,

Have you tried increasing the in-cam sharpening? I use 0 because I'm concerned more about the noise. But, when I used to use +1 or occassionaly +2 the pics were definitely more 707-ish (sharpness and saturation).

I see a big difference between the two cameras. Especially on images "right from the camera". There's just no equal to the 707's output. But, I think I get an end result, with the 717, that's every bit as sharp, and has less noticeable noise, than my 707 edits.

I hope the forum can give you the guidance you need to be happy with this fine camera :-)

Steve
--
http://www.pbase.com/slo2k

'There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle' - Albert Einstein
 
I did some exposure and noise testing over the weekend, comparing the results of the F717 with the Konica KD500Z because it seemed to me that my F717 exposures generally looked noisier in shadow areas. What I found was that the Konica's centerweighted AE matched my Sekonic L328 incident meter's readings almost exactly in three different lighting while the Sony F717 in P and A modes (those are the only ones I tested) tended to evaluate the required exposure to between 0.3 and 0.7 EV less for the same scene and lighting. Unfortunately, my F707 is on loan to a friend who lives in NY so I cannot test against it directly, but I suspect the same would be true.

How does this relate? Well, some of the 'pop' of the F707 images comes from lower apparent noise and full saturation, which requires with adequate exposure past a threshold point. The F717 has tested to have a little less red sensitivity... It looks like they've calibrated the meter to read a bit higher as well. As a result, the F717 images have a flatter, more neutral appearance but they show noise more rapidly.

I walked around with the camera yesterday on A setting, set the ISO to 100 and the exposure compensation to +0.3EV, and didn't touch it after that. After making a variety of exposures in a range of lighting situations, I'd say that the overall noise and color balances look much better, much more pop to them like the KD500Z or F707. The histograms all look significantly better than the average with EV compensation set on 0. It may be that setting the sharpness to -1 will help even further to ensure a smooth, finely textured, low noise image, but it might require a bit more post-processing to get the kind of sharpness you are looking for.

Give it a shot, I'm interested to hear others' experiences with this adjustment.

Godfrey

(A sidebar to the F717 improvement is that I found the KD500Z produces images identical in noise and density when compensation is set to -1.5EV if compared with the F717 at ISO 200 and 0 compensation. That means I can get a little more low light versatility out of the Konica by just telling it to underexpose, thereby keeping the shutter speed a little higher. The images show some noise but they're quite usable.)
Have you tried increasing the in-cam sharpening? I use 0 because
I'm concerned more about the noise. But, when I used to use +1 or
occassionaly +2 the pics were definitely more 707-ish (sharpness
and saturation).

I see a big difference between the two cameras. Especially on
images "right from the camera". There's just no equal to the
707's output. But, I think I get an end result, with the 717,
that's every bit as sharp, and has less noticeable noise, than my
707 edits.
 
http://www.pbase.com/nukester/inbox

Even with sharpening I am not happy with these...
Question: How are your exposures? Are you over-exposing at all?
Could we see a gallery with some samples?
Ok. I have tried just about everything, yet cannot get the same
sharpness that I achieved with my F707. Even with UM the images
don't pop like my 707 did right out of the camera! What camera on
the market gives the best out of the camera pictures that don't
need a lot of post-work. I've looked at the Fuji S2, but with the
8X8 on the horizon should I just wait?

I typically shoot in manual mode, tried center and multi-focus, iso
100, 0 sharpening, 1 sharpening, fine mode, best resilution.

Thanks.
--

Ulysses
 
Great. I was going to say something similar.

Part of the "problem" here is the way you're shooting this. A white plate on a white background. This is a mixture or recipe for trouble. You can't make a picture like that really POP.

If I were you, I'd first of all change the background. Try a basic black first. Or switch to another color, preferably something similar to one of the colors that is already in the plate itself.

Next, you mentioned that you were going to try this with the V1. Great! Try the Sharpening at the Plus end. See how that is. Next bump up the Contrast. If you still want more, then finally try moving the Saturatioin to the Plus end. If all of that isn't getting you where you want, your last alternative is to try to edit the shot in PS or PSE. You'd do the same thing, but first trying to add to the contrast, secondly to the saturation, and finally to the sharpness of the image.

Hope this helps.

--

Ulysses
 
Ulysses, here are some images with good color. Also taken with camera on Tripod... Any tips here?

http://www.pbase.com/nukester
Ok. I have tried just about everything, yet cannot get the same
sharpness that I achieved with my F707. Even with UM the images
don't pop like my 707 did right out of the camera! What camera on
the market gives the best out of the camera pictures that don't
need a lot of post-work. I've looked at the Fuji S2, but with the
8X8 on the horizon should I just wait?

I typically shoot in manual mode, tried center and multi-focus, iso
100, 0 sharpening, 1 sharpening, fine mode, best resilution.

Thanks.
 
I found the V1 identical to the 717. I got some more color saturation but at the expense of more noise :(. I just want to duplicate the SHARPNESS of my old 707 which I miss dearly. It isn't the colors that bother me, it is the image sharpness. I have to really hit the UM to get anywhere near the quality of sharpness of my 707. Almost like the focus is always just a "tad" off.

Out of curiosity do you like the Fuji S2?
Great. I was going to say something similar.

Part of the "problem" here is the way you're shooting this. A white
plate on a white background. This is a mixture or recipe for
trouble. You can't make a picture like that really POP.

If I were you, I'd first of all change the background. Try a basic
black first. Or switch to another color, preferably something
similar to one of the colors that is already in the plate itself.

Next, you mentioned that you were going to try this with the V1.
Great! Try the Sharpening at the Plus end. See how that is. Next
bump up the Contrast. If you still want more, then finally try
moving the Saturatioin to the Plus end. If all of that isn't
getting you where you want, your last alternative is to try to edit
the shot in PS or PSE. You'd do the same thing, but first trying to
add to the contrast, secondly to the saturation, and finally to the
sharpness of the image.

Hope this helps.

--

Ulysses
 
That's a rathher shallow DOF
http://www.pbase.com/nukester
Ok. I have tried just about everything, yet cannot get the same
sharpness that I achieved with my F707. Even with UM the images
don't pop like my 707 did right out of the camera! What camera on
the market gives the best out of the camera pictures that don't
need a lot of post-work. I've looked at the Fuji S2, but with the
8X8 on the horizon should I just wait?

I typically shoot in manual mode, tried center and multi-focus, iso
100, 0 sharpening, 1 sharpening, fine mode, best resilution.

Thanks.
--
Mark

http://adigitalfreak.deviantart.com/gallery/

S O N Y DSC-F717, O l y m p u s B-300, S a n d i s k 512 MS Pro, Slik tripod(qr)
 
These look really sharp to me. you can make out the detail of the woodgrain through the paint on the rings even. But testing for sharpness with everything in the picture being round makes it hard to see. especially with the flash making a shadow around everything. I think the focus is right on the closest part of the purple ring in most of them and the short depth of feild makes it soft further back.
Ulysses, here are some images with good color. Also taken with
camera on Tripod... Any tips here?

http://www.pbase.com/nukester
--
DSC-P50
 
digital-freak,

Now you are starting to see one of my biggest issues. a VERY shallow DOF. I am using Manual mode only. Hate to be a pain, but can the DOF be increased without making the shutter too slow for hand held photographs?
http://www.pbase.com/nukester
Ok. I have tried just about everything, yet cannot get the same
sharpness that I achieved with my F707. Even with UM the images
don't pop like my 707 did right out of the camera! What camera on
the market gives the best out of the camera pictures that don't
need a lot of post-work. I've looked at the Fuji S2, but with the
8X8 on the horizon should I just wait?

I typically shoot in manual mode, tried center and multi-focus, iso
100, 0 sharpening, 1 sharpening, fine mode, best resilution.

Thanks.
--
Mark

http://adigitalfreak.deviantart.com/gallery/

S O N Y DSC-F717, O l y m p u s B-300, S a n d i s k 512 MS Pro,
Slik tripod(qr)
 
I found the V1 identical to the 717.
Hmm... it may simply be that the F707 had a default sharpness and high contrast that you liked.

Again, I think the way you are shooting this subject sort of kills it for the types of things you're trying to achieve.
Out of curiosity do you like the Fuji S2?
Hmm... S2? That's not me. You must have me mistaken for someone else. :-)

--

Ulysses
 
Why must it be handheld? For your best, sharpest shots, you need a tripod.

If you are using flash, that helps automaticallly.
digital-freak,

Now you are starting to see one of my biggest issues. a VERY
shallow DOF. I am using Manual mode only. Hate to be a pain, but
can the DOF be increased without making the shutter too slow for
hand held photographs?
--

Ulysses
 
Hi Nukester,

go to this link and compare the 2 pictures , is this what you are looking for?
I have the same problem.

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/olympusc5050z/page18.asp
Ok. I have tried just about everything, yet cannot get the same
sharpness that I achieved with my F707. Even with UM the images
don't pop like my 707 did right out of the camera! What camera on
the market gives the best out of the camera pictures that don't
need a lot of post-work. I've looked at the Fuji S2, but with the
8X8 on the horizon should I just wait?

I typically shoot in manual mode, tried center and multi-focus, iso
100, 0 sharpening, 1 sharpening, fine mode, best resilution.

Thanks.
 

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