Everybody -- Let's Talk TECHNIQUE!!

[Forrest41926]

The flood-gates are beginning to open. A few posts here and there about "I got mine!," and some "First Pic" samples. A week from now we'll be innundated by proud new dSLR owners -- many of whom are likely to be first-time SLR owners. ( I know I was, with my D60! )

And while the Rebel D doesn't have ISO 6 in P mode, and comes wrapped up in a plastic body that's not impervous to gun-fire, it's very capable of making professional quality images. In fact, at least one D30 image graced the cover of People magazine, full-bleed. The Rebel D is higher resolution and higher sensativity than the D30, with less noise.

But you can't buy talent -- the Rebel D is only as good as the person behind the viewfinder, and the technique they use. This is something to keep in mind when you open your box, and then while you test the camera out ... but I think it would also make for a good discussion.

All of us approach the same set of problems from a different angle ... so what are you trying to do, and what gets it done for you? How do you get the sharpest, most contrasty, widest/narrowest DOF, lowest noise, best B/W conversions, and so on? What's important for a good print, and how do you achieve it?

 

[jim176171]

Nice post.

Mister Forrest, you talk like a teacher, who wants to have a look on the homework.
I think 'll miss this lesson. I 've no camera yet.

--
i am newbie and that should explain many things.
best regards, jim.

 

[jim176171]

Just kidding.

--
i am newbie and that should explain many things.
best regards, jim.

 

[TomCee]

Hi Forrest,

first of all: the 300d hasn't arrived in Europe yet , so we can't fully join you;

second: I agree fully that th technical discussions (who have been there already 'bout the e-ttl flash and so, and those who will come) DO keep me coming back to this forum;

third: don't you think this is (up to now) a very nice, polite and friendly forum? Phil made the right decission splitting up;
fourth: beside flash problems we didn't see much others, didn't we??;

fifth: I just stopped at your website and downloaded the NR & smart sharpening action, gonna try this one out later this evening. Thank you very much for providing this one.

Keep on posting.......

--



Regards,
Tom

http://clik.to/tomcee

S602Z FAQ: http://www.marius.org/fuji602faq.php
Join the FujiMugs! http://www.fujimugs.com

 

[Forrest41926]

first of all: the 300d hasn't arrived in Europe yet , so we
can't fully join you;

That's okay -- I don't have a 300D, either! But I've got a D60, which is pretty similar ... I just don't enjoy the 7 point AF system that you will. Still, comparing the D60 to the 300D, either one of them can make photos that mop the floor with the other camera ... it comes back to technique.

third: don't you think this is (up to now) a very nice, polite and
friendly forum? Phil made the right decission splitting up;

I think this is very true!

fifth: I just stopped at your website and downloaded the NR & smart
sharpening action, gonna try this one out later this evening. Thank
you very much for providing this one.

Let me know what you think of it!! I'm redoing my site in Dreamweaver, rewriting all the pages, and thinking of making a few slight changes to that action ... so if you have any feedback, let me know, and I might be able to improve it some!

Did you have a look at the galleries...?

 

[Forrest41926]

Nice post.

Thanks. Hopefully we can all learn something from each other.

Mister Forrest, you talk like a teacher, who wants to have a look
on the homework.

I'm not a teacher -- just a guy with a car and a camera. But I do want to see the homework, 'cause if Canon is right about 70,000 cameras a month, we're sure to see some great new talent in here!

I think 'll miss this lesson. I've no camera yet.

Sorry to leave you out, then. Unless you'd like to pick up an Adams, Weston, Rowell, or whatever book, and comment on what you like, and maybe someone in here does that type of photography and has a few hints...

 

[nubui]

I've been a manual focus SLR amateur for the last 15 years, having shot lots of slides and B&W highly pushed contrasty grainy stuff (which is the look I really like), mostly available light type stuff, rarely used flash, even trained myself to be steady enough to shoot 200mm on 1/60s. Then after a couple of years I got fed up with the film-long-feedback-cycle-send-it-in-wait-for-pics-kinda-thing (never really got the time to develop my own pics) and got a 2.3MP P&S 3 years ago ... haven't used my SLR since 'cos suddenly it was so easy to get instant pics ... like so many I first hoped they'd come up with a digital back for my old SLR, but of course that never happened. Then shifted that hope to a DSLR coming out that I could afford .. which has now finally happened. I can hardly wait for it to arrive!!

But your question was about technique, so here's my take:

I've always tried to keep best possible control on DOF, because that for me always was one of the most significant advantages over P&S - so my usual setting is one hand on the aperture and frequent previewing to make sure I'm getting it right. I let the cam do the proper speed.

Image composition of course is equally important - making sure that the foreground goes well with the background (that's probably one of the most important things I learnt in the first years), looking for things that guide the eyes through a picture, etc.

Then I also like to have contrast in the picture in terms of the objects (stuff like an old cathedral in the foreground, a skyscraper in the backtround, both shoved together closely closely using 300mm)

But having all that said, it's never about technical perfection for me .. the blurriest shot can still be great if it manages to transport a certain feeling to the viewer.

Just my $.02 on what techniques are important to me.

Chris

 

[TomCee]

I was searching for your name and landed on your website. The first thing that got my attention was the noise reduction action. I have a fuji 602 at the moment and I'm allways interested in noise reduction 'cause that's my main problem with all the small size sensors... I hope I can find the time later this evening to try your action, is it somewhat similar to the 'famous' JB sharpening action?? I have to leave this night for a trip to the south of France, so maybe it will have to wait 'till next week. Sure I will peek at your portfolio then, that's the part where I can learn things!

--



Regards,
Tom

http://clik.to/tomcee

S602Z FAQ: http://www.marius.org/fuji602faq.php
Join the FujiMugs! http://www.fujimugs.com

 

[RATPhoto]

The flood-gates are beginning to open. A few posts here and there
about "I got mine!," and some "First Pic" samples. A week from now
we'll be innundated by proud new dSLR owners -- many of whom are
likely to be first-time SLR owners. ( I know I was, with my D60!
)

And while the Rebel D doesn't have ISO 6 in P mode, and comes
wrapped up in a plastic body that's not impervous to gun-fire,
it's very capable of making professional quality images. In
fact, at least one D30 image graced the cover of People magazine,
full-bleed. The Rebel D is higher resolution and higher
sensativity than the D30, with less noise.

But you can't buy talent -- the Rebel D is only as good as the
person behind the viewfinder, and the technique they use. This is
something to keep in mind when you open your box, and then while
you test the camera out ... but I think it would also make for a
good discussion.

All of us approach the same set of problems from a different angle
... so what are you trying to do, and what gets it done for you?
How do you get the sharpest, most contrasty, widest/narrowest DOF,
lowest noise, best B/W conversions, and so on? What's important
for a good print, and how do you achieve it?

Not sure which aspects of technique you are interested in discussing. At this point I do have some opinions about both shooting and post processing.

Shooting:

This camera has one huge advantage you don't have when shooting film. You can change the speed on every shoot. And the method of changing the speed is very easy. So instead of just controlling Aperture and Shutter Speed, I am now thinking in terms of Aperture, Shutter Speed and ASA. That extra flexibility can really help when you have to hike somewhere and go without a tripod, etc. Even at 1600 ASA you can get very usable pictures depending on the subject.

Post Processing:

1) I have the camera set to No Sharpening, lowest contrast, default saturation.

2) When I get the picture into photoshop I am using an S curve in levels to boost contrast in most pictures. How aggresive the S is depends on the picture. This is a better way of boosting contrast than just using the contrast controls (that tends to really kill detail in your highlights.)

3) I sharpen by going into Lab color and selecting the lightness channel. I sharpen that channel and then go back to RGB.

A small number of example shots are in my gallery below. They have been processed as described.

So far I really like this camera. It is doing exactly what I expected of it based on the reviews. I also have tested it for focus and it is within specs on both the kit and 70-200 F4L. It shows a few hot pixels in long exposures but that is to be expected.

A note about the pictures in the gallery. The two goats were taken at 1600. In this case it was done for testing purposes (the shooting situation did not demand it). The shots at Great Falls I was changing the speed as the situation demanded it. I was trying to keep shutter speed above 1/500th on the longer shots.

--
For a small gallery of 300d pictures, see:
http://ratphoto.home.comcast.net/
They were taken with the EF-S 18-55 kit lens as well as a 70-200 F4L.

 

[wendy176644]

Forrest,

i'd LOVE to see some organized challenges... maybe weekly or so? I've seen some out on my scrapbooking forums like... action photos or water photos or garage photo shoots... need an experienced person to drive it.
wendy

The flood-gates are beginning to open. A few posts here and there
about "I got mine!," and some "First Pic" samples. A week from now
we'll be innundated by proud new dSLR owners -- many of whom are
likely to be first-time SLR owners. ( I know I was, with my D60!
)

And while the Rebel D doesn't have ISO 6 in P mode, and comes
wrapped up in a plastic body that's not impervous to gun-fire,
it's very capable of making professional quality images. In
fact, at least one D30 image graced the cover of People magazine,
full-bleed. The Rebel D is higher resolution and higher
sensativity than the D30, with less noise.

But you can't buy talent -- the Rebel D is only as good as the
person behind the viewfinder, and the technique they use. This is
something to keep in mind when you open your box, and then while
you test the camera out ... but I think it would also make for a
good discussion.

All of us approach the same set of problems from a different angle
... so what are you trying to do, and what gets it done for you?
How do you get the sharpest, most contrasty, widest/narrowest DOF,
lowest noise, best B/W conversions, and so on? What's important
for a good print, and how do you achieve it?

--
Wendy

 

[Forrest41926]

Not sure which aspects of technique you are interested in
discussing. At this point I do have some opinions about both
shooting and post processing.

Well, personally, I wouldn't mind some advice on shooting cityscapes, as I'm going to be back in SF in a couple weeks, and Seattle in maybe a month. After living in Esse Effe for about four years, I didn't do very well:

http://valhallaphotos.com/html/Galleries/SanFranciscoGallery.htm

But mostly I started this post because the S/N ratio in this forum is actually pretty high, especially considering the feeding-frenzy everybody was expecting. I think if everybody who got a Rebel D put some thought into what they want to get out of their camera, and then how to get it, they'll be a lot happier, and this forum will stay useful.

And because a few people are discouraged by things that are really non-issues ... so if people go out and shoot good photos, and comment on how they got them ... it might put some minds at ease. ( It's not possible to take a good photo with a 300D, because you have to spend $10,000 on a good lens... )

So, with that in mind, thanks for your excellent ( as always ) comments.

1) I have the camera set to No Sharpening, lowest contrast, default
saturation.

I particularly agree with this one. I haven't set lowest contrast, as I go immediately to RAW mode, but I have the sharpening turned down as low as possible for when I shoot jpegs ... makes a huge difference -- in a subtle kind of way.

 

[BradL]

Let's see...trying to recall the teachings of my high school photo teacher...

1) The Rule of Thirds: Think of imaginary lines dividing your composition into thirds both horizontally and vertically. This rule states that any subject which falls on any of the "one-third" dividing lines will be more interesting than if the subject were centered in the composition. For example, horizon shots look better when they divide the picture into a 1/3 to 2/3 (or vice versa) arrangement rather than right through the middle 1/2 to 1/2.

2) The Subject is the Subject: How can you be interested in the subject if you can't figure out what the subject is? Get closer! Use DOF! Make sure the viewer understands what it is in the frame you are interested in.

3) See the Light: Lighting will determine the mood of the shot. Look for things happening with light that are interesting, out of the ordinary, or just plain unique. For instance, when was the last time you saw a picture of a kid in the dark with a small flashlight shoved up his nose (like we've all done in a past life)? I bet this would make interesting shot for the same reason kids love to do it...light and how it affects us is fascinating.

There were lots more lessons but these are the ones that stick out in my mind and have given me more than one great photo.

-Brad

 

[Forrest41926]

Just my $.02 on what techniques are important to me.

I take it you don't have a 300D, or at least not yet. I'd be very interested to hear how you think it compares to your film SLR, and to your P&S, when it arrives!

By the way, can I get you to comment a little on how you use selective DOF? Portraits? Landscapes? It can be difficult ( but very effective! ) to do a selective focus landscape...

 

[Forrest41926]

Forrest,
i'd LOVE to see some organized challenges... maybe weekly or so?
I've seen some out on my scrapbooking forums like... action photos
or water photos or garage photo shoots... need an experienced
person to drive it.

Wendy,

I think this is a fantastic idea! It's a great way for people to practice and learn -- kind of like going to school, but without the tuition.

But I'm not the experienced person you need to drive it. I'm getting ready to spend about a month or two on the road, soaking up some more experience, living out of a tent in as many national forests as I can get to. No Internet access when the nearest city is 300 miles away.

Petteri is trying to launch something like this in the lens forum, but I think his challenges are a bit creative for newbies. Petteri is very skilled, but also very creative, thinks outside the box to get fantastic images. But I'm of the opinion that you should master normal portraits before you start with the wide-angle portraits...

Maybe you're the one to get this rolling?

Forrest
http://www.valhallaphotos.com

 

[Forrest41926]

1) The Rule of Thirds: Think of imaginary lines dividing your
composition into thirds both horizontally and vertically. This
rule states that any subject which falls on any of the "one-third"
dividing lines will be more interesting than if the subject were
centered in the composition. For example, horizon shots look
better when they divide the picture into a 1/3 to 2/3 (or vice
versa) arrangement rather than right through the middle 1/2 to 1/2.

I couldn't agree more about where the horizon goes. I've had a couple shots that were really good for other reasons, but unuseable because I made the anti-creative mistake of putting the horizon right down the center. Along or near one of the thirds looks MUCH better.

And taking this a step further, where the horizontal and vertical thirds meet , the "hot-spots," is a great place to put the "punch" in your photo. Here's a not very good example -- the sun is where the lines would meet if it were the "rule of fifths," and might look better where the thirds meet, but it's still a LOT better than dead-center:

3) See the Light: Lighting will determine the mood of the shot.
Look for things happening with light that are interesting, out of
the ordinary, or just plain unique. For instance, when was the

This is one of the most important things in artistic photography. A good subject, yeah, but a good subject in good light ... and you've got a winner -- a unique image.

These stairs would be pretty boring at high noon:

 

[Donald Cooper]

Actually I'm pretty impressed with how good some of the shots are, lack of thought and all. The cam may be able to do advanced work but at this point I'm blown away at how well it seems to work as a P&S.

As for you shots, IMHO technically they're good. I don't really have any suggestions to give you, but they strike me as "landscaper comes to city", by which I mean you're shooting cityscapes with an eye towards capturing physical beauty using landscape techniques. Cites seem more about light and grit for me.

That said, your B&W is extremely nice and your picture of the bay might be wonderful with different lighting -- it's sort of late afternnon but maybe not late enough? I'd think right around sunset would be the right time for these type shots. FWIW, I'm not sure that cityscapes work easily other than at this time or night. Any earlier and you get just a picture of the city, so to speak. During the day I think that people or street scenes would be the best subjects. Again, IMHO, and I'm sure there are plenty of exceptions to this.

Well, personally, I wouldn't mind some advice on shooting
cityscapes, as I'm going to be back in SF in a couple weeks, and
Seattle in maybe a month. After living in Esse Effe for about four
years, I didn't do very well:

 

[marius100281]

I'd be interested in what people have to say about catching candids of people. Obviously long zoom so they don't notice you, but what beyond that?

-marius

The flood-gates are beginning to open. A few posts here and there
about "I got mine!," and some "First Pic" samples. A week from now
we'll be innundated by proud new dSLR owners -- many of whom are
likely to be first-time SLR owners. ( I know I was, with my D60!
)

And while the Rebel D doesn't have ISO 6 in P mode, and comes
wrapped up in a plastic body that's not impervous to gun-fire,
it's very capable of making professional quality images. In
fact, at least one D30 image graced the cover of People magazine,
full-bleed. The Rebel D is higher resolution and higher
sensativity than the D30, with less noise.

But you can't buy talent -- the Rebel D is only as good as the
person behind the viewfinder, and the technique they use. This is
something to keep in mind when you open your box, and then while
you test the camera out ... but I think it would also make for a
good discussion.

All of us approach the same set of problems from a different angle
... so what are you trying to do, and what gets it done for you?
How do you get the sharpest, most contrasty, widest/narrowest DOF,
lowest noise, best B/W conversions, and so on? What's important
for a good print, and how do you achieve it?

--
-marius
Visit the EOS-300D FAQ: http://www.marius.org/eos300dfaq.php
Visit the S602Z FAQ: http://www.marius.org/fuji602faq.php

 

[Forrest41926]

As for you shots, IMHO technically they're good. I don't really
have any suggestions to give you, but they strike me as "landscaper
comes to city", by which I mean you're shooting cityscapes with an
eye towards capturing physical beauty using landscape techniques.
Cites seem more about light and grit for me.

I agree completely, about the landscaper in the city. Most of my cityscapes don't have any people in them, and when they do, they're very small in the frame, and usually in the corner. Like a big, open expanse ... a meadow in the mountains.

Grit, huh? The down side of a city? I'll have to check this out next time I'm in SF.

That said, your B&W is extremely nice and your picture of the bay
might be wonderful with different lighting -- it's sort of late
afternnon but maybe not late enough? I'd think right around sunset
would be the right time for these type shots. FWIW, I'm not sure
that cityscapes work easily other than at this time or night. Any
earlier and you get just a picture of the city, so to speak. During
the day I think that people or street scenes would be the best
subjects. Again, IMHO, and I'm sure there are plenty of exceptions
to this.

I have an extremely hard time doing cityscapes in the day. I've tried, quite a bit, but not come away with much. I agree about twilight and night being the best times to shoot cities.

Never really done much street scene photography. Maybe I should force myself.

 

[Forrest41926]

I'd be interested in what people have to say about catching candids
of people. Obviously long zoom so they don't notice you, but what
beyond that?

I tried a little of this at an anti-war protest in SF a while ago, and didn't come up with anything I was really happy with. You're right about the tele lenses, or at least positioning yourself where people won't notice you ... but I'm not sure what else to do. How you frame your shots is going to be important. What you do with DOF depends on what you're trying to achieve.

Have you seen much of Salgado's work?

 

[David Goldwasser]

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=6115880

This is based on the forums that take place on STF. Typically about every two weeks. There is an eligible and non-eligable category.

The flood-gates are beginning to open. A few posts here and there
about "I got mine!," and some "First Pic" samples. A week from now
we'll be innundated by proud new dSLR owners -- many of whom are
likely to be first-time SLR owners. ( I know I was, with my D60!
)

And while the Rebel D doesn't have ISO 6 in P mode, and comes
wrapped up in a plastic body that's not impervous to gun-fire,
it's very capable of making professional quality images. In
fact, at least one D30 image graced the cover of People magazine,
full-bleed. The Rebel D is higher resolution and higher
sensativity than the D30, with less noise.

But you can't buy talent -- the Rebel D is only as good as the
person behind the viewfinder, and the technique they use. This is
something to keep in mind when you open your box, and then while
you test the camera out ... but I think it would also make for a
good discussion.

All of us approach the same set of problems from a different angle
... so what are you trying to do, and what gets it done for you?
How do you get the sharpest, most contrasty, widest/narrowest DOF,
lowest noise, best B/W conversions, and so on? What's important
for a good print, and how do you achieve it?

--
Wendy

--
David Goldwasser
http://www.inertia-llc.com