E5 - getting the weigth down

[Louis_Dobson]

As more and more 35mmFF cameras come on stream, Oly will have to make sure that the smaller and lighter aspects of the 4/3rds system are fully realised, so that they can offer a smaller and lighter alternative to the battleship cameras.

This is my only real disappointment with the E3, it weights to much and is too big.

So - my ideas:

1) Replace the glass prism with same high refractive index plastic stuff used on canon DO lenses (I assume?) and in my fancy eyeglasses. This should greatly reduce size and weight. Would it work?

2) Supply the camera with a properly integrated grip with its own big battery, which can be removed and replaced with an E410 battery to make a small, light 200 shot camera when needed.

3) Replace the cast body with something made of visibly high tech composites - carbon fibre would look nice.

Any comments?

--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/acam

 

[OlNiPeCa]

I'm with you regarding the weight, but please don't make it smaller than the E1, i need a sturdy grip. And also there has to be place for a 2,7 or 3 inch swivel screen. I would like to see a carbon fibre body, good idea!

 

[Brian Mosley]

I think Bootstrap Bill is really impressed with his ownuser grip for the E-410... I'd love to see a weather sealed, pro grade E-4x0 with a larger OVF... maybe just a shade larger grip, with those ridiculously placed lugs moved.

Kind Regards

Brian
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[rovingtim]

Get the weight down!

Small rugged high quality cameras with excellent optics. I've heard a most excellent rumour from bootstrap about a proposed Exx ...

 

[Louis_Dobson]

In the box is

1) The (carbon fibre) camera with an E420 battery in it (small, light).

2) A screw on carbon fibre heavily sytilised, properly intergratd, sculptured grip with no battery sompartment (hence the space for sculpturing it). The camera is now still very light, but bigger for those with big hands etc.

3) A screw on conventional battery grip with large dedicated battery for all day shooting (and for weirdos who like heavy cameras and haven't grasped 4/3rds is the wrong for mat for them). The camera is no longer especially small and light, but can be made so.

--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/acam

 

[Magnus Bosse]

along these lines - a winner!

Magnus

 

[OlNiPeCa]

This would be a good solution. And i think that in that nicely sculptured batterygrip will always be place for a second (little) e420 battery. A little more weight but twice the pictures.

 

[Olyinaz]

On this we can easily agree. The and I mean THE selling point for the whole system needs to remain that the cameras are nice and tidy.

I've got an E-520 on order and when it arrives my E-3 will likely go to eBay or someone here via the other forum. It's a great camera and I'll miss that lovely view finder but it's just too damned heavy for my needs/desires.

Oly

--

 

[Rriley]

As more and more 35mmFF cameras come on stream, Oly will have to make
sure that the smaller and lighter aspects of the 4/3rds system are
fully realised, so that they can offer a smaller and lighter
alternative to the battleship cameras.

This is my only real disappointment with the E3, it weights to much
and is too big.

So - my ideas:

1) Replace the glass prism with same high refractive index plastic
stuff used on canon DO lenses (I assume?) and in my fancy eyeglasses.
This should greatly reduce size and weight. Would it work?

yes, and it would be cheaper, but the finder would be dimmer
so that might have AF implications as well

2) Supply the camera with a properly integrated grip with its own
big battery, which can be removed and replaced with an E410 battery
to make a small, light 200 shot camera when needed.

umm, isnt that what we have now ?

3) Replace the cast body with something made of visibly high tech
composites - carbon fibre would look nice.

both carbon and aramid fibres are very hard to work though
cut/mould/shape, then you want weatherproof right ?
so that would be harder to guarantee at the end
then there is the issue of warm or cold to touch
we take care of that now with a bonded rubber
but such things are tough to do on plastics with any assurance

but i see what you mean, plastic with a high tech appeal
and this is the sigle best place to hit for weight

definitely a doable thing, but its highly depended on the right material choice. The world has such people though so i dont see it as an issue

you could look at the same process that Glock GmbH use for the plasticised mod22. A sort of metal frame (which could be mesh) impregnated with polymer. That would never come apart and offers a sizable weight reduction. Top it off with some carbon fibre parts for impact protection and viola ...

no issue too for machineable polymers used for the internal chassis, we do this now for the mirrorbox and it renders very high quality impact absorbent structures. But its expensive to conduct compared with the butyl polymers which are injected mouldings commonly used for castings

i would say at an eyeball guess you could get down to around 66% of the existing weight without much trouble, and the end result would be more damage resitant, more high tech. Problem is in selling this to a crowd that want everything for nothing and the mistaken mindset that suggests metal just has to be stronger

Any comments?

just try and shut me up

--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/acam

--
Riley

in my home, the smoke alarm is the dinner bell (just)

 

[Louis_Dobson]

this stuff is very effective. But can you use it in prisms? I don't know.

No, now we have the BLM1, which makes the camera heavy, and the grip takes two BLM1s, and is highly temperamental.

--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/acam

 

[Chris_in_Osaka]

So - my ideas:

1) Replace the glass prism with same high refractive index plastic
stuff used on canon DO lenses (I assume?) and in my fancy eyeglasses.
This should greatly reduce size and weight. Would it work?

Sounds good. How about using this kind of glass in lenses too and cutting the size of, say the 50-200, in half.

2) Supply the camera with a properly integrated grip with its own
big battery, which can be removed and replaced with an E410 battery
to make a small, light 200 shot camera when needed.

You mean like the big battery in the E-1's grip? I wish they had made than compatible with the E-3. OK.

3) Replace the cast body with something made of visibly high tech
composites - carbon fibre would look nice.

Carbon Fibre? Look nice?

Wait a minute.

You mean like the aftermarket parts people stick on the sport type motorcycles? Are you serious? Are you gonna stick some blue LED lights on it too? Maybe a device to make the shutter sound louder and meaner?

No, I don't think Oly should be targeting, to borrow a Brit term, the "chav" market.

--
Olympus E-3 and E-420, Panasonic DMC-L1

Leica 25mm and 14-50mm. Zuiko 25mm pancake, 50mm, 14-42mm, 12-60mm, 50-200mm, and 8mm fisheye. FL-36 Flash.
Canon PowerShot TX1
Ricoh GR-D
Sony DSC-V3

 

[Louis_Dobson]

You CAN make it naff (and naff CF is normally just cosmetic), but done properly...

I believe the high refractive index is a bit optically flaky, it is what Canon use in their DO lenses, I understand, which have not been met with universal acclaim. But at VF size it would be just dandy.
--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/acam

 

[QCR]

Heat might be a factor in a non glass prism.

Carbon fiber in any thin application is a little fragile and unpredictable not to mention expensive.
A bigger battery might mean more weight.

 

[Rriley]

this stuff is very effective. But can you use it in prisms? I don't
know.

me either, the guy that might is Joseph S Wisniewski

there are likely coatings that make these things more effective, but how might they survive in time...

No, now we have the BLM1, which makes the camera heavy, and the grip
takes two BLM1s, and is highly temperamental.

so fix the dam things, cant be that hard to make something that works can it ?

--
Riley

in my home, the smoke alarm is the dinner bell (just)

 

[Rriley]

Heat might be a factor in a non glass prism.
Carbon fiber in any thin application is a little fragile and
unpredictable not to mention expensive.

not unpredictable really, the engineering characteristics are quite well known and documented . But sometimes some tech plastics are used in the wrong applications. Kevlar for instance has a huge tensile strength, but very little in compressive properties and cycles to failure. Y

ou can use aramids like kevlar with graphites like carbon for composites ultimate strength, but its very very expensive and hugely difficult to work

what about nylon im thinking, that impregnated around a copper cage to suppress EVF might be a beautiful example with inserts for grips etc

A bigger battery might mean more weight.

--
Riley

in my home, the smoke alarm is the dinner bell (just)

 

[Louis_Dobson]

that's why the idea is that you don't use it unless you anticipate shooting thousands of frames.

Personally I have only once in two years ever run out of power on a day's shoot, and with the benefit of hindsight I must have done something silly (like not connect the charger properly).

My E3 does 750 frames on one BLM-1 without complaining, and that's more than I need (or wish to carry) normally.
--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/acam

 

[Hawaii-geek]

Smaller/lighter imho is always better (more so, if you carry two cameras)

That is why I am waiting for an eXX that's weather sealed (and did not go with the E3 even though I do like it)

For me ... if it is just e510/520 size (weather sealed) I will be very happy.
imho, why not have something for "all" the e5xx users to upgrade to?

imho, even for a working PRO (who must have 2 bodys) ... with all the "annual" changes in Digital (and the expected sensor upgrades in the 4/3 future) a lower priced eXX weather sealed body makes a LOT of sense to me.

Love the idea of the detachable "sculped" grip.

But, I do love my BLM1's capasity ... on a day/night shoot I always seem to have to change the BLM close to the end of the night (a good thing). (imho, less batt power is not a good thing in a semi-pro/pro camera)
HG

As more and more 35mmFF cameras come on stream, Oly will have to make
sure that the smaller and lighter aspects of the 4/3rds system are
fully realised, so that they can offer a smaller and lighter
alternative to the battleship cameras.

This is my only real disappointment with the E3, it weights to much
and is too big.

So - my ideas:

1) Replace the glass prism with same high refractive index plastic
stuff used on canon DO lenses (I assume?) and in my fancy eyeglasses.
This should greatly reduce size and weight. Would it work?

2) Supply the camera with a properly integrated grip with its own
big battery, which can be removed and replaced with an E410 battery
to make a small, light 200 shot camera when needed.

3) Replace the cast body with something made of visibly high tech
composites - carbon fibre would look nice.

Any comments?

--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/acam

--

Please feel free to criticize, make suggestions, and edit any of my photos & re-post, to help show me 'the way'. * I am trying to Elevate the Level of my 'Snap Shots'
Guess I will need a pic of my e510 soon ...

 

[Johann D]

In the box is

1) The (carbon fibre) camera with an E420 battery in it (small, light).

Nah...stick with alloy body. How much weight does CF save? A few grams? An ounce? Not a big deal to me. I like the techno plastic prism though...

2) A screw on carbon fibre heavily sytilised, properly intergratd,
sculptured grip with no battery sompartment (hence the space for
sculpturing it). The camera is now still very light, but bigger for
those with big hands etc.

Not important to me...

3) A screw on conventional battery grip with large dedicated battery
for all day shooting (and for weirdos who like heavy cameras and
haven't grasped 4/3rds is the wrong for mat for them). The camera is
no longer especially small and light, but can be made so.

Not important to me as long as the grip is screw on...

Most important to me is to get back to the E1 IQ...Kodak sensor? Simplicity is important to me. Eliminate the pop up flash, lose the LV, top info panel (bring back the E1 dial), articulating LCD and cut the menu in half...oh, He!! just give me a 10mp E1, 4X0 size with IS and 3" LCD!
Asking too much? OK, 5X0 size...

Someone should set an E1 in front of all those Olympus engineers and say "Improve this and don't screw it up!"

 

[ljmac]

They really do have to bring the size and weight down, so we can put an end to all those "what's the point of 4/3rds if the camera is as big and heavy as APS" comments!

 

[Rob MacLennan]

As more and more 35mmFF cameras come on stream, Oly will have to make
sure that the smaller and lighter aspects of the 4/3rds system are
fully realised, so that they can offer a smaller and lighter
alternative to the battleship cameras.

This is my only real disappointment with the E3, it weights to much
and is too big.

I've started using the E-510 for wide and the E-3 for tele almost exclusively around the track and it's a positive joy to get the diminutive E-510 back in my hands with a 14-54 attached after lugging the E-3 around. I love my E-3, but the wrists start to fatigue after a while.

So - my ideas:

1) Replace the glass prism with same high refractive index plastic
stuff used on canon DO lenses (I assume?) and in my fancy eyeglasses.
This should greatly reduce size and weight. Would it work?

I know of no reason, short of potential assembly complications, that would preclude it. How are your fancy plastic eye glasses for attracting dust?

2) Supply the camera with a properly integrated grip with its own
big battery, which can be removed and replaced with an E410 battery
to make a small, light 200 shot camera when needed.

I rather like the dual standard battery way of handling things in the grip, because it reduces the overall collection of "stuff" that I need to carry. With or without the grip, I'm carrying the same bunch of cells. Maybe use the E-4XX batteries instead? I don't think that would save considerable mass though, to make the loss of life worth the exchange.

3) Replace the cast body with something made of visibly high tech
composites - carbon fibre would look nice.

Here would be the greatest savings in mass and bulk; one layer for frame and housing. It might be tough to crack the market with a 'plastic prosumer' camera, but I wouldn't blink at the thought of buying a carbon/poly composite shelled body. It would be lighter, resist impact well, and not get as hot to the touch on a bright day.

All-in-all a fine collection of ideas, that would result in a prosumer grade camera not much bigger or heavier than a E-510.

Any comments?

--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/acam

--
D620L -> D540 -> C750UZ -> E-500 -> E-510 -> E-3