DSLR choice..too difficult...wait/buy...wait/buy...wait/buy..

[effector]

Ok let's go for me:

Fuji S2pro

PRO

High resolution: 12mp interpolated, real about 8mp
High detail, Fuji colors

NIKON F mount (many digicam actual and future use this...i will have more choice)
External flash contact X HOT SHOE, that support cheap flash
Cheap rechargeable batteries NI-Mh

Firewire and USB connection (may be useful, but actually i don't have a firewire port)
Fast operation
Five area AF
3d matrix exposure metering
Grid lines in viewfinder

CONS

Body design, not function and ed ergonomic but big size and aesthetic (for me of course)

Two separate sets of batteries, one is NOT rechargeable. If you want you don't use internal flash and use only one set of batteries Ni-mh
Short life Batteries (in conparison to NIKON and CANON)
Batteries and charger NOT included in box. (increase price)
It's not sure that all CF work correctly
focal multiplier 1.5x
Viewfinder coverage 92%
0.5 EV steps (NIKON 0.3)
2 FPS in continuos shooting (3 FPS NIKON)
Weight 760gr, big body size
HIGH price (2239 € + iva) body only

FUTILITY

CONS- LCD cover not trasparent useless
CONS- Orange Display , I don't like it

NIKON D100

PRO

Body design, function, ergonomic, body size and aesthetic (for me of course)

NIKON F mount (many digicam actual and future use this...i will have more choice)
3 FPS in continuos shooting
0.3 EV steps
3d matrix exposure metering
Five area AF
Viewfinder coverage 95%
ONE battery
Batteries and charger included in box
Very long life battery
Fast operation
Grid lines in viewfinder
Weight 700gr and right body size
Low price (2056€ +iva) body only

CONS

6mp, low detail, soft look images! at 100%
External flash contact X only, that not support cheap flash
focal multiplier 1.5x
High price battery

FUTILITY

PRO- LCD traspearent cover, useful
PRO-Frames remaining counter active also when digicam is off

CANON D60

PRO

Body design, body size and aesthetic (for me of course)
3 FPS in continuos shooting max 8 images
Right body size
long life battery (less than d100)
View throw viewfinder is slightly bigger than others
Batteries and charger included in box
Viewfinder coverage 95%
External flash contact X HOT SHOE, that support cheap flash

CONS

No grid lines in viewfinder
NO Adobe RGB colour space
EOS mount (good glass but only canon use it..i'm sorry)
focal multiplier 1.6x
High price battery
Slow operation
3 area AF
Weight 852 gr.
HIGH price(2239 € + iva) body only

FUTILITY

CONS- NO LCD cover

--
Please forgive my english....
....but Italian do it better

 

[effector]

there is also sigma sd9..but i don't know that its resolution is enough to print without problem in A3...and i don't like to use only sigma lens...tell me something about this camera (yes i see many threads about this...)

ok ..now...

i print max in A3+ with my epson photo 1290...so i need a camera that has detail at this print size...so

if d100 isn't too soft in a3 i prefer this digicam (nikon user tell me something about this camera please)
if d100 don't need too much post-shot work..i prefer this

otherwise ther is fuji s2pro..good photo but really i don't like it's power solution and esthetic!

tell me something please.

I can wait...i can wait february 2003 max..but i don't like to wait...so if nikon has something interest for me i wait...but i can't spend more than 2600€...
Is possible a foveonx3 6mp (bayer comparison) from nikon?

Or if sigma has a foveon x3 at 6mp ...i can wait...but i don't know

--
Please forgive my english....
....but Italian do it better

 

[effector]

ah sorry another thing...actually i have no glass...for this reason i prefer nikon mount

--
Please forgive my english....
....but Italian do it better

 

[Capital Man]

The OlyDak will blow away the current crop of digicams because the lenses will be specifically designed for the sensor size. The lenses designed for the smaller sensor will resolve many more line pairs/mm, resulting in much sharper images.

Don't waste your money on equipment that will be obsolete in a year. Th enew OlyDak will be based on a new STANDARD, so lenses you buy for the new OlyDak will outlast the camera body (which will no doubt become obsolete in two years like very other digital camera).

 

[Forrest41926]

EOS mount (good glass but only canon use it..i'm sorry)

This is a con? I don't know ... as nice as the new Kodak 14n looks, I love my EOS glass too much. Silent, instant autofocus, image stabilized, super bright ... and it produces beautiful images.

I think it's more important to have a DSLR than a particular one. Besides giving you much better quality than you could get with a P&S, they'll allow you to take photos that just aren't possible without a DSLR. I could never have got this with my Olympus:

 

[Thomas Sapiano]

I can wait...i can wait february 2003 max..but i don't like to
wait...so if nikon has something interest for me i wait...but i
can't spend more than 2600€...
Is possible a foveonx3 6mp (bayer comparison) from nikon?

Or if sigma has a foveon x3 at 6mp ...i can wait...but i don't know

If it hasn't been announced by now, you won't be able to buy it by February. PMA in February will likely be the next opportunity the big companies have to announce their products, however it usually takes a few months for them to get the product to market - so unnannounced stuff will likely not show up until June 2003.

If one of the current cameras can do what you need it to do, then it generally isn't a good idea to wait for the next thing. Like computers, this becomes an endless cycle - by the time you can get your hands on a camera there are annoucements/rumors of something better on the horizon - if you wait for that, then something better is just ahead, etc. Prices will go down (well, to a certain point), and capability will go up - so it is simply a matter of looking at the products and asking yourself 'can this camera do what I need it to do, and if so is it worth the cost that they are asking for it?'

Anyway, by PMA I can't see Nikon releasing a new prosumer camera - it is likely their next release will be the replacement for the professional D1-series cameras (ie an answer to the EOS 1D and EOS 1Ds). Those will likely be a good deal more expensive than any of the cameras mentioned, probably in the $3-4K range at least. The D100 hasn't been out long enough to have a replacement - it will likely, at the very least, be another year before one is even announced.

If you can think of paying $4K for a camera, the new Kodak DCS 14n might be a good option - it gives you a Full-Frame (ie no multiplier) true 14MP image without a AA filter (ie pixel for pixel it'll be sharper than other Bayer chips). While using the N80 electronics like the S2/D100, it has a redesigned body that is supposedly more durable, and IMHO looks a lot more ergonomic than the other N80-based cameras. According to Kodak, it is supposed to be available in December, so it would fit your criterion (well, aside from price).

 

[Robert Niel]

The OlyDak will blow away the current crop of digicams because the
lenses will be specifically designed for the sensor size. The
lenses designed for the smaller sensor will resolve many more line
pairs/mm, resulting in much sharper images.

Conjecture and hypothesis.

Don't waste your money on equipment that will be obsolete in a
year. Th enew OlyDak will be based on a new STANDARD, so lenses
you buy for the new OlyDak will outlast the camera body (which will
no doubt become obsolete in two years like very other digital
camera).

The same goes for any good glass on Canon or Nikon mount, for instance.

Don't waste your money on equipment that will be obsolete in a year.

What exactly does obsolete mean in that context? The camera will continue to take the same quantified 'quality' photos as when they bought them (subject to wear and tear). The rest of your statement is pretty much conjecture, unless you've seen and handled the 'Olydak'. No doubt it'll have it's quirks just like any current camera.

Regards

Robert

 

[effector]

Yes of course like all digital world...wait is never a good idea...but now..a full frame sensor for me is really a turning point. I'm an architect so i often use wide...and focal 1.5x is a bad thing for me..but not too bad because i also like portrait shot.

I think that a camera with a full frame sensore can live at least 2-3 years in my hands, but i don't know if it's the same with a non full frame sensor.
I can't spend 3000€ every year!!! it's impossible .
I woul like a camera that live at least 2-3 years.

Which is the conclusion?

I don't know...

If one of the current cameras can do what you need it to do, then
it generally isn't a good idea to wait for the next thing. Like
computers, this becomes an endless cycle - by the time you can get
your hands on a camera there are annoucements/rumors of something
better on the horizon - if you wait for that, then something better
is just ahead, etc. Prices will go down (well, to a certain
point), and capability will go up - so it is simply a matter of
looking at the products and asking yourself 'can this camera do
what I need it to do, and if so is it worth the cost that they are
asking for it?'

--
Please forgive my english....
....but Italian do it better

 

[effector]

I like 14n by kodak...but for me 2000€ plus only for a full frame sensor (yes yes i know 14 mp..it's wonderfoul for me) it's too much...
I don't know i can buy it only with a magic price of 3000$ no eh?

bye

Luca

If you can think of paying $4K for a camera, the new Kodak DCS 14n
might be a good option - it gives you a Full-Frame (ie no
multiplier) true 14MP image without a AA filter (ie pixel for pixel
it'll be sharper than other Bayer chips). While using the N80
electronics like the S2/D100, it has a redesigned body that is
supposedly more durable, and IMHO looks a lot more ergonomic than
the other N80-based cameras. According to Kodak, it is supposed to
be available in December, so it would fit your criterion (well,
aside from price).

--
Please forgive my english....
....but Italian do it better

 

[effector]

I know new olydak...but i'm sceptic...i don't believe in this new standard.

Do you think that nikon, canon, sigma, tamron etc...will start a totally new production of glass?
I think no...
Form the future are full frame sensor
but i can get the wrong...

bye

Luca

The OlyDak will blow away the current crop of digicams because the
lenses will be specifically designed for the sensor size. The
lenses designed for the smaller sensor will resolve many more line
pairs/mm, resulting in much sharper images.

Don't waste your money on equipment that will be obsolete in a
year. Th enew OlyDak will be based on a new STANDARD, so lenses
you buy for the new OlyDak will outlast the camera body (which will
no doubt become obsolete in two years like very other digital
camera).

--
Please forgive my english....
....but Italian do it better

 

[effector]

Yes for me is a cons...please don't misunderstand me:
Canon produce fantastic lens, but only this company use it on digital camera.

Otherwise, now, for nikon mount i have 2 digital camera in same range of price( nikon and fuji), in future i have also kodak.

This means that is possible to have a choice of three D SLR in same range of price.

Don't you think that this is a good chanche?

EOS mount (good glass but only canon use it..i'm sorry)

This is a con? I don't know ... as nice as the new Kodak 14n
looks, I love my EOS glass too much. Silent, instant autofocus,
image stabilized, super bright ... and it produces beautiful images.

I think it's more important to have a DSLR than a particular one.
Besides giving you much better quality than you could get with a
P&S, they'll allow you to take photos that just aren't possible
without a DSLR. I could never have got this with my Olympus:

--
Please forgive my english....
....but Italian do it better

 

[Forrest41926]

Kodak has some older DSLRs with Canon mounts. Sigma and Tokina and such make lenses for Canon and Nikon mounts. The lenses in both lines are more or less comparable; each has their strengths and weaknesses. Both will get the job done, if you can work around things a little bit.

But if you don't have any lenses, this is the tme to choose the best system to fit your needs. You'll have plenty of time to only look at one system later.

Six months ago I didn't have any lenses, except the one on my P&S digicam. I looked at the SLRs out there, and the lenses available for each of them. I bought a D60, a 50/1.4 and a 16-35/2.8, and I couldn't be happier with them. There are a lot of reasons I bought the Canon over the Nikon ( and a few reasons I thought about the Nikon or the Fuji ), and you should check all of them out while you still can.

Still, any of them will get the job done, and having a digital SLR that takes specialty lenses made for the job you're doing is probably more important than just which SLR you get.

Yes for me is a cons...please don't misunderstand me:
Canon produce fantastic lens, but only this company use it on
digital camera.
Otherwise, now, for nikon mount i have 2 digital camera in same
range of price( nikon and fuji), in future i have also kodak.
This means that is possible to have a choice of three D SLR in same
range of price.

Don't you think that this is a good chanche?

 

[effector]

Yes but now and in future i see more choice of D SLR in same range of price (2000/2500€) for nikon standard....but future may be different of course . I suppose that i will start with a good 28-200 and a good 15-30..for me this is expensive...i can't enter now in a system and leave it for another in future...so i must choose now nikon or canon...and i'm incline to nikon...

Of course i'm also confused...very confused

ciao

Luca

But if you don't have any lenses, this is the tme to choose the
best system to fit your needs. You'll have plenty of time to only
look at one system later.

Six months ago I didn't have any lenses, except the one on my P&S
digicam. I looked at the SLRs out there, and the lenses available
for each of them. I bought a D60, a 50/1.4 and a 16-35/2.8, and I
couldn't be happier with them. There are a lot of reasons I bought
the Canon over the Nikon ( and a few reasons I thought about the
Nikon or the Fuji ), and you should check all of them out while
you still can.

Still, any of them will get the job done, and having a digital SLR
that takes specialty lenses made for the job you're doing is
probably more important than just which SLR you get.

Yes for me is a cons...please don't misunderstand me:
Canon produce fantastic lens, but only this company use it on
digital camera.
Otherwise, now, for nikon mount i have 2 digital camera in same
range of price( nikon and fuji), in future i have also kodak.
This means that is possible to have a choice of three D SLR in same
range of price.

Don't you think that this is a good chanche?

--
Please forgive my english....
....but Italian do it better

 

[Jimmy Chen]

Fuji S2pro
NIKON D100
CANON D60
Sigma SD9

Forget about all the pros and cons, they are totally meaningless if a camera offers all the pros that do not suit your shooting needs ...

What do you like to shoot and what kind of photography are you most likely to shoot? From there you can narrow down the list of four camera and know which one you need to get.

For an example, if you love shooting night action shots, then the SD9 is out of the question ... etc ...

--
jc
Sony F707
http://www.reefkeepers.org/gallery/f707
http://www.reeftec.com/gallery

 

[effector]

I like this reply
Then
I often shoot architecture picture, so no moving subject.
This also by night with my old dear manfrotto's tripod.
This is for my work and passion.

But i also like surpire photo..to my girl (yes..yes actually after five year this love is finished.. but the show must go on..no?) my family, my big cat...

...or everywhere I can make mine a special moment..i really like ..take the moment.
So i prefer light digicam with a good feel in my hands.
My previous camera was olympus c 2500L now it's obsolete

Fuji S2pro
NIKON D100
CANON D60
Sigma SD9

Forget about all the pros and cons, they are totally meaningless if
a camera offers all the pros that do not suit your shooting needs
...

What do you like to shoot and what kind of photography are you most
likely to shoot? From there you can narrow down the list of four
camera and know which one you need to get.

For an example, if you love shooting night action shots, then the
SD9 is out of the question ... etc ...

--
jc
Sony F707
http://www.reefkeepers.org/gallery/f707
http://www.reeftec.com/gallery

--
Please forgive my english....
....but Italian do it better

 

[Thomas Sapiano]

If you can't afford the 14n is to try and find a good deal on a used DCS 660 or 760. With the 14n out, these camera's resale values are falling rapidly and definately are a good catch.

While not full frame, they have a CCD that provides a 1.3X FLM effect. They are pretty noisy at higher ISOs, however if you are just doing still subjects, they work well at the low ISO settings. Additionally, they are built on an F5 chassis (ie same exposure and focusing system as the D1-series, heavier build, interchangable viewfinders/screens, etc.) and offer dual memory card slots (both PCMCIA - so you can pretty well use any type via adapters). The main downside is that these cameras are huge beasts compared to the other cameras, the F5 is big to start - however Kodak added a lot of meat to the machines

Just offering a few alternatives

bye

Luca

If you can think of paying $4K for a camera, the new Kodak DCS 14n
might be a good option - it gives you a Full-Frame (ie no
multiplier) true 14MP image without a AA filter (ie pixel for pixel
it'll be sharper than other Bayer chips). While using the N80
electronics like the S2/D100, it has a redesigned body that is
supposedly more durable, and IMHO looks a lot more ergonomic than
the other N80-based cameras. According to Kodak, it is supposed to
be available in December, so it would fit your criterion (well,
aside from price).

--
Please forgive my english....
....but Italian do it better

 

[Jimmy Chen]

I often shoot architecture picture, so no moving subject.
This also by night with my old dear manfrotto's tripod.
This is for my work and passion.

So for you the D100's smaller crop factor is more important to you. Or maybe even the Kodak 14n's FF, because you want to go wide rather then zoom.

But i also like surpire photo..to my girl (yes..yes actually after
five year this love is finished.. but the show must go on..no?)
my family, my big cat...
...or everywhere I can make mine a special moment..i really like
..take the moment.

Right, but those are typical day to day photos where you dont need ISO 1600 and 1/1000. A good general purpose zoom will serve you fine. But you may want the longer shutter speed, so you can take those clean ISO 800-1200 5-10 second exposure night shots.

So i prefer light digicam with a good feel in my hands.
My previous camera was olympus c 2500L now it's obsolete

LOL, all DSLRs are heavy compare to prosumer. Something we will have to deal with when we move up to this level.

--
jc
Sony F707
http://www.reefkeepers.org/gallery/f707
http://www.reeftec.com/gallery

 

[Peter Phan]

The lens system should be the primary consideration because it is the most enduring factor. DSLR's are still changing rapidly, but you will always have your lenses. It doesn't matter how many DSLR choices there are, if you don't have the lens system that offers the selection and quality you want it is pointless. But if you are interested in getting a "good 28-200", then it is obvious that your expectations of quality for your lenses is rather low. There are no good 28-200 lenses. They are all mediocre, at best.

For me, the Canon lens system is a primary consideration. It is without a doubt the best lens system available in terms of quality, selection, technology, and (compared to most Nikon offerings) price. So it really doesn't matter that there are two camera bodies available in the same price range with the Nikon mount. (The Kodak is in an entirely different price range). You only need to pick one body, and you will use if for a few years. But with the lenses you will want a broad selection, with fast and quiet autofocus, with the best optics, with Image Stabilizer, etc.

Choose between the Fuji S2, Nikon D100, or D60. Each has it's pros and cons. However, the most important factor is still the lens system you are going to be stuck using for a very long time. So pick the one that you are going to like the best.

Of course i'm also confused...very confused

ciao

Luca

But if you don't have any lenses, this is the tme to choose the
best system to fit your needs. You'll have plenty of time to only
look at one system later.

Six months ago I didn't have any lenses, except the one on my P&S
digicam. I looked at the SLRs out there, and the lenses available
for each of them. I bought a D60, a 50/1.4 and a 16-35/2.8, and I
couldn't be happier with them. There are a lot of reasons I bought
the Canon over the Nikon ( and a few reasons I thought about the
Nikon or the Fuji ), and you should check all of them out while
you still can.

Still, any of them will get the job done, and having a digital SLR
that takes specialty lenses made for the job you're doing is
probably more important than just which SLR you get.

Yes for me is a cons...please don't misunderstand me:
Canon produce fantastic lens, but only this company use it on
digital camera.
Otherwise, now, for nikon mount i have 2 digital camera in same
range of price( nikon and fuji), in future i have also kodak.
This means that is possible to have a choice of three D SLR in same
range of price.

Don't you think that this is a good chanche?

--
Please forgive my english....
....but Italian do it better

 

[effector]

I think that these digicams are too big for my requirements.

And i don't like to spend my money in an old camera that has not a full frame sensor (yes 1.3x is better than 1.5x..but not enough..i prefer a "little" d100, s2pro, d60..etc.)
Anyway thanks for alternatives

ciao

Luca

If you can't afford the 14n is to try and find a good deal on a
used DCS 660 or 760. With the 14n out, these camera's resale
values are falling rapidly and definately are a good catch.

While not full frame, they have a CCD that provides a 1.3X FLM
effect. They are pretty noisy at higher ISOs, however if you are
just doing still subjects, they work well at the low ISO settings.
Additionally, they are built on an F5 chassis (ie same exposure and
focusing system as the D1-series, heavier build, interchangable
viewfinders/screens, etc.) and offer dual memory card slots (both
PCMCIA - so you can pretty well use any type via adapters). The
main downside is that these cameras are huge beasts compared to the
other cameras, the F5 is big to start - however Kodak added a lot
of meat to the machines

Just offering a few alternatives

Please forgive my english....
....but Italian do it better

 

[effector]

Thanks, for suggestion.

Sure a DSLR i heavy..but not too much.
I like a solid camera stable in my hand.
Oly c2500L was 0.5kg. a light camera.
A DSLR+ lens about 1.5kg (with a light lens )
I think that isn't too much.

ciao

Luca

I often shoot architecture picture, so no moving subject.
This also by night with my old dear manfrotto's tripod.
This is for my work and passion.

So for you the D100's smaller crop factor is more important to you.
Or maybe even the Kodak 14n's FF, because you want to go wide
rather then zoom.

But i also like surpire photo..to my girl (yes..yes actually after
five year this love is finished.. but the show must go on..no?)
my family, my big cat...
...or everywhere I can make mine a special moment..i really like
..take the moment.

Right, but those are typical day to day photos where you dont need
ISO 1600 and 1/1000. A good general purpose zoom will serve you
fine. But you may want the longer shutter speed, so you can take
those clean ISO 800-1200 5-10 second exposure night shots.

So i prefer light digicam with a good feel in my hands.
My previous camera was olympus c 2500L now it's obsolete

LOL, all DSLRs are heavy compare to prosumer. Something we will
have to deal with when we move up to this level.

--
jc
Sony F707
http://www.reefkeepers.org/gallery/f707
http://www.reeftec.com/gallery

--
Please forgive my english....
....but Italian do it better