DPREVIEW >> Jumping the Shark w/ D40x

[Ken_5D]

How many features does Nikon have to carve out from one of their DSLRs to get a just a "Recommended" As of today "Highly Recommended" means nothing more than... "made by a company I don't want to lose special Attention from...."

It is missing features that many P&S have...

And It costs what a Sony A100 does with things like:

Stabilization

Bracketing (this is a deal breaker for anyone who wants to learn to be a better photographer)

Support for all types of existing A-mount AF lenses

RAW+JPG with decent JPGs

There is a point where we just need to give up the illusion that this is anything but a well run fan site for a couple brands.

Even though Sony is the #2 seller of digital cames.. it has been 10 months since a Sony anything has been reviewed. So we know this isn't all market driven.

Sorry but this last review really opened my eyes.

Nikon makes some great cameras.. I think anyone with any honestly knows the D40's are not in the "great camera" class.

This is a great Hobby site.. but not by any means a valid resource for choosing a camera any more.. but then again I chose my KM 5D with no review from Phil and am happy... so the world goes on.

------------
Ken - KM 5D
http://www.cascadephotoworks.com

 

[Bob Blount]

This is an old tired thread subject dredged up when some one's masculinity is challenge when their camera is not tested or not rated high enough. If you want to get results, use the "Feedback" option, if you want to draw attention and maybe find someone to strock you ego, post it here.

News Discussion Forum

Welcome to the News Discussion Forum, the place to discuss news articles, breaking news and new technology. There are specific brand forums available.

How many features does Nikon have to carve out from one of their
DSLRs to get a just a "Recommended" As of today "Highly
Recommended" means nothing more than... "made by a company I don't
want to lose special Attention from...."

It is missing features that many P&S have...

And It costs what a Sony A100 does with things like:

Stabilization

Bracketing (this is a deal breaker for anyone who wants to learn
to be a better photographer)

Support for all types of existing A-mount AF lenses

RAW+JPG with decent JPGs

There is a point where we just need to give up the illusion that
this is anything but a well run fan site for a couple brands.

Even though Sony is the #2 seller of digital cames.. it has been 10
months since a Sony anything has been reviewed. So we know this
isn't all market driven.

Sorry but this last review really opened my eyes.

Nikon makes some great cameras.. I think anyone with any honestly
knows the D40's are not in the "great camera" class.

This is a great Hobby site.. but not by any means a valid resource
for choosing a camera any more.. but then again I chose my KM 5D
with no review from Phil and am happy... so the world goes on.

------------
Ken - KM 5D
http://www.cascadephotoworks.com

--
Bob,

'We don't make a photograph with a camera; we bring to the act of photography all the books we have read, the movies we have seen, the music we have heard and the people we have loved.' Ansel Adams

Sony R1
Canon Pro1
Casio Z750
Nikon 3100

 

[Chato]

This is an old tired thread subject dredged up when some one's
masculinity is challenge when their camera is not tested or not
rated high enough. If you want to get results, use the "Feedback"
option, if you want to draw attention and maybe find someone to
strock you ego, post it here.

News Discussion Forum
Welcome to the News Discussion Forum, the place to discuss news
articles, breaking news and new technology. There are specific
brand forums available.

And when I read a camera review I never pay attention to the final ratings.

What's REALLY nice about these reviews is that everthing you need to know about a camera is in fact given. If it scores low in noise - By gosh, the tests show the noise.

Want to compare cameras side by side? Not a problem.

So Mr. Askey, in a compromise with reality supplies a "rating." I have no trouble with that. I don't even bother looking at the "rating."

In an objective consistent manner, these cameras are put through standardised tests.

If someones idea of a review is simply to look at the conclusions, the poster might have a point. But if you actually READ and STUDY the details, you are getting ALL the facts in a clear and concise manner.

Mr. Askey is doing a good job.

Dave

How many features does Nikon have to carve out from one of their
DSLRs to get a just a "Recommended" As of today "Highly
Recommended" means nothing more than... "made by a company I don't
want to lose special Attention from...."

It is missing features that many P&S have...

And It costs what a Sony A100 does with things like:

Stabilization

Bracketing (this is a deal breaker for anyone who wants to learn
to be a better photographer)

Support for all types of existing A-mount AF lenses

RAW+JPG with decent JPGs

There is a point where we just need to give up the illusion that
this is anything but a well run fan site for a couple brands.

Even though Sony is the #2 seller of digital cames.. it has been 10
months since a Sony anything has been reviewed. So we know this
isn't all market driven.

Sorry but this last review really opened my eyes.

Nikon makes some great cameras.. I think anyone with any honestly
knows the D40's are not in the "great camera" class.

This is a great Hobby site.. but not by any means a valid resource
for choosing a camera any more.. but then again I chose my KM 5D
with no review from Phil and am happy... so the world goes on.

------------
Ken - KM 5D
http://www.cascadephotoworks.com

--
Bob,

'We don't make a photograph with a camera; we bring to the act of
photography all the books we have read, the movies we have seen,
the music we have heard and the people we have loved.' Ansel Adams

Sony R1
Canon Pro1
Casio Z750
Nikon 3100

 

[thw]

-------------------------------------------
See the colors of my world in:
thw.smugmug.com

 

[Chato]

-------------------------------------------
See the colors of my world in:
thw.smugmug.com
-------------------------------------------

Clear proof of the bias in this site. Imagine, some fool claiming that the Mark II 1Ds or the Nikon D2xs is superior to the A 100? What a travesty?

Of course in the above scenario the earth is flat, and evolution is simply a communist conspiricy to undermine America.

What the heck, all makes sense to me.

Dave

 

[bionet]

..I do have to say the sum of these missing features, especially exposure bracketing for HDRI images (you don't want to touch the camera between exposures to dial in another shutter speed), isn't "minor" or whatever the article said in its conclusion.

As long as digital highlight DR is as lousy as it is compared to negative film (white skies anyone?), which probably won't change for the foreseeable future, we need all the crutches we can get and exposure bracketing remains an important feature.

 

[Dayo]

I have no intention of buying a D40X and have a soft spot for the A Mount but sales of the Alpha have tanked and frankly when Sony releases something interesting, we will be interested.

Even Sony knows the Aplha was just a stop gap camera while they work on a proper unit. Hopefully this will come soon.

Until then, sorry, but not interested in any comparisons or whatever with the Alpha.

I am just happy it didn't get one of those loopy "High Recommended, Just A Touch" ratings.

You do have a point those that according to DPReview, the last average camera was rolled out back in 2003 while the last below average one hit the shelves in 2002.
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/default.asp?view=rating
--
http://dakanji.com

'I make statements based on fact not predictions.'
KMSEA: 12:33:17 PM, Saturday, November 12, 2005 (GMT)

 

[Ken_5D]

This is an old tired thread subject dredged up when some one's
masculinity is challenge when their camera is not tested or not
rated high enough. If you want to get results, use the "Feedback"
option, if you want to draw attention and maybe find someone to
strock you ego, post it here.

News Discussion Forum
Welcome to the News Discussion Forum, the place to discuss news
articles, breaking news and new technology. There are specific
brand forums available.

Hey Bob.. again thanks for the drive by trolling in the Sony DSLR forum earlier nice to see your wrong here too
BTW Take a look at what the number one News Story on the the site is today...

I'm discussing it...

Its the New review of revised Nikon P&S bridge camere.. the D40x...
I am on topic even if a bit grumpy...

Sony R1
Canon Pro1
Casio Z750
Nikon 3100

--
------------
Ken - KM 5D
http://www.cascadephotoworks.com

 

[David Mazeau]

How many features does Nikon have to carve out from one of their
DSLRs to get a just a "Recommended" As of today "Highly
Recommended" means nothing more than... "made by a company I don't
want to lose special Attention from...."

Things haven't changed. You just have a new hook to base your
accusations on... that's all.

 

[Ken_5D]

This is an old tired thread subject dredged up when some one's
masculinity is challenge when their camera is not tested or not
rated high enough. If you want to get results, use the "Feedback"
option, if you want to draw attention and maybe find someone to
strock you ego, post it here.

News Discussion Forum
Welcome to the News Discussion Forum, the place to discuss news
articles, breaking news and new technology. There are specific
brand forums available.

And when I read a camera review I never pay attention to the final
ratings.

What's REALLY nice about these reviews is that everthing you need
to know about a camera is in fact given. If it scores low in noise

• By gosh, the tests show the noise.

Want to compare cameras side by side? Not a problem.

So Mr. Askey, in a compromise with reality supplies a "rating." I
have no trouble with that. I don't even bother looking at the
"rating."

In an objective consistent manner, these cameras are put through
standardised tests.

If someones idea of a review is simply to look at the conclusions,
the poster might have a point. But if you actually READ and STUDY
the details, you are getting ALL the facts in a clear and concise
manner.

Mr. Askey is doing a good job.

Of supporting his favorite brands.. if it were run like a business it would not only seek to inform as a service to build trust.. but reflect the market. Why is the #2 digital camera seller.. being ignored for 10 months.....??

But I know this is Amazon and Phil's site so I knew those he takes good care of would circle the wagons...

This is an honest observation... in my opinion...

Dave

How many features does Nikon have to carve out from one of their
DSLRs to get a just a "Recommended" As of today "Highly
Recommended" means nothing more than... "made by a company I don't
want to lose special Attention from...."

It is missing features that many P&S have...

And It costs what a Sony A100 does with things like:

Stabilization

Bracketing (this is a deal breaker for anyone who wants to learn
to be a better photographer)

Support for all types of existing A-mount AF lenses

RAW+JPG with decent JPGs

There is a point where we just need to give up the illusion that
this is anything but a well run fan site for a couple brands.

Even though Sony is the #2 seller of digital cames.. it has been 10
months since a Sony anything has been reviewed. So we know this
isn't all market driven.

Sorry but this last review really opened my eyes.

Nikon makes some great cameras.. I think anyone with any honestly
knows the D40's are not in the "great camera" class.

This is a great Hobby site.. but not by any means a valid resource
for choosing a camera any more.. but then again I chose my KM 5D
with no review from Phil and am happy... so the world goes on.

------------
Ken - KM 5D
http://www.cascadephotoworks.com

--
Bob,

'We don't make a photograph with a camera; we bring to the act of
photography all the books we have read, the movies we have seen,
the music we have heard and the people we have loved.' Ansel Adams

Sony R1
Canon Pro1
Casio Z750
Nikon 3100

--
------------
Ken - KM 5D
http://www.cascadephotoworks.com

 

[Ken_5D]

-------------------------------------------
See the colors of my world in:
thw.smugmug.com
-------------------------------------------

Clear proof of the bias in this site. Imagine, some fool claiming
that the Mark II 1Ds or the Nikon D2xs is superior to the A 100?
What a travesty?

Of course in the above scenario the earth is flat, and evolution is
simply a communist conspiricy to undermine America.

What the heck, all makes sense to me.

Dave

thw is a Canon user.. so you just got suckered into a trolling post.

And we were talking about the "Highly Reccomended" for a camera that can't even compete all the entry level photograhy class exercises .. like braketing... easily.

Not about comparing the A100 to any PRO bodies.. But then again we wouldn't want to compare the 400D/XTi of D40ns to the A100... because they don't measure up...

------------
Ken - KM 5D
http://www.cascadephotoworks.com

 

[Steve_]

"Welcome to Lake Wobegon, where all the women are strong, all the men are good-looking, and all the children are above average."

• Garrison Keillor

I've heard state officials in my (somewhat backward) US State claim that all our students are above average. It seems truth is one of the definite casualties of the perceived imperative to offend no one in modern society. The definition of the term 'average' is rather clear--but has fallen into such disuse these days as to be rendered meaningless.
--
Panasonic FZ5 and LZ3 pics - http://www.s90223656.onlinehome.us

 

[FF4U2]

I hear ya brudder. Did you see how Phil boned Olympus in the Nikon review? He used an admittedly faulty camera to perform and publish ISO tests. My hiney hurts from that one..

How many features does Nikon have to carve out from one of their
DSLRs to get a just a "Recommended" As of today "Highly
Recommended" means nothing more than... "made by a company I don't
want to lose special Attention from...."

It is missing features that many P&S have...

And It costs what a Sony A100 does with things like:

Stabilization

Bracketing (this is a deal breaker for anyone who wants to learn
to be a better photographer)

Support for all types of existing A-mount AF lenses

RAW+JPG with decent JPGs

There is a point where we just need to give up the illusion that
this is anything but a well run fan site for a couple brands.

Even though Sony is the #2 seller of digital cames.. it has been 10
months since a Sony anything has been reviewed. So we know this
isn't all market driven.

Sorry but this last review really opened my eyes.

Nikon makes some great cameras.. I think anyone with any honestly
knows the D40's are not in the "great camera" class.

This is a great Hobby site.. but not by any means a valid resource
for choosing a camera any more.. but then again I chose my KM 5D
with no review from Phil and am happy... so the world goes on.

------------
Ken - KM 5D
http://www.cascadephotoworks.com

--

You can't talk lens quality in a vacuum. Don't caress your lens. The size of your silicon DOES matter.

Wise Man, circa Spring, 2007 AD.

 

[Coolsiggy]

Bob..you said it all.
--
Fred, KM A2 and F30
'Your best Photo should be viewed with a biased eye'
http://coolsiggy.smugmug.com/

 

[Phil Askey]

And how does the metering sensor affect noise? Pray tell.

I hear ya brudder. Did you see how Phil boned Olympus in the Nikon
review? He used an admittedly faulty camera to perform and publish
ISO tests. My hiney hurts from that one..

--
Phil Askey
Editor, dpreview.com

 

[PhotoTraveler]

See all the noise being generated from this review in the forum, that's how metering effects noise.

 

[Ken_5D]

I hear ya brudder. Did you see how Phil boned Olympus in the Nikon
review? He used an admittedly faulty camera to perform and publish
ISO tests. My hiney hurts from that one..

--
Phil Askey
Editor, dpreview.com

I have been watching the A100 forum all year.. because a Sony is the likely upgrade path for my KM5D ..

Exposure has a lot to do with Noise.. under exposed more noise, over exposed less noise. So if you expose an A100 closer to 1600 ISO at ISO 1600 instead of its chosen 2000 ISO.. the Noise is much better...

Don't know what the Oly's problem was... can't seem to find that part of the review.. but... if its exposure system is not working right.. I would think that COULD affect the noise on the final images.

So I think it is at least a fair question to ask...

Much as how a a budget DSLR that can't bracket and can't use more budget concious lenses can get a "Highly Reccomended" have have that rating mean anything.

Forget about my whining about the A100 missing in comparison even though they are in the same price range is one thing... some people have made a good case for why not...

But.. I really don't think you do the value of your reviews and credibiity and good, giving a "Highly Reccomended" to a camera missing key basic features even when compared with other cameras in the price range..

Someone wanting to learn photography would quickly learn in any beginning class that the D40s are lacking bracketing that all the other DLSRs have and even some of the P&Ss... so it isn't even a good starter DSLR for someone who wants to grow into the Nikon system on a budget...

To some of us.. with the loss of support for less expensive lenses and braketing the D40 seems more like the first step in an Bate and Switch.. as in "If you want a REAL Nikon that you can learn photography on let me show you a D80/D70/even D50" This is a camera built to be upgraded as soon as the buyer learns anything...

If you think that deserves a Highly Reccomended.. some of us are disapointed.. It cheapens all the other Highly Reccomendeds you have given and frankly keeps the pressure of Nikon to do good entry level cameras.

Stepping of soap box....
------------
Ken - KM 5D
http://www.cascadephotoworks.com

 

[PhotoTraveler]

But lets be fair here. The D40 and others like it, K100D are not entry level cameras. They are cheap cameras, they are below entry level. They are for those who just want an SLR as cheap as possible. The path to do that is rip out features, otherwise you have a camera model that is the same as the entry level model the company makes.

So the options come down to companies either making no cheaper model to preserve their entry level models, or they rip features out.

As much as some of us use stuff like bracketing a good bit, those who buy cameras like the D40, D40X are likely to have no clue what it is and not use it at all. And it's not a big set back, it's not like film SLRs that so many of us learned on had it.

These cameras give people something to get going with, a path up from P&S on the cheap. They will buy the kit and that's it. Even if the D40 had the in-body motor, almost no one owning one would ever use that motor because they will never own a lens that needs the in-body motor. That's why Nikon got rid of it, it makes the camera cheaper, lighter, smaller and for no real loss. Nikon knows it's a market of just kit lens users. If the person ever buys a second lens it will be a tele zoom and nikon has those in AFS now too. People need to leave this allusion that people will have big lens collections, or be buying all sorts of lenses. Even folks who have old lenses who would buy this camera will just stick to the kit lens. It's in a market where the people buying it very well will just buy a Canon or a Sony or a Pentax in a year or so as they tire of this camera and want a new one. They just keep buying new kit DSLRs yearly or so. Just like millions do with P&S cameras. Nothing is wrong with what they have, they just want a new one, smaller, spiffier, new widget, more pixels. These people will never notice the limitations of the camera.

And of course you can say it's bait and switch. All cameras are until you get to the pro model, every cheaper model has less stuff than the one above it. People buy the cheaper one, then year for the better camera, so they buy again. It's the model that keeps all companies that sell products in business.

You really don't get into the area where lens compatibilities, features like bracketing and so forth really matter till you get to semi-pro cameras. Below that it's about making it cheap and easy to use. That's why for a long time Nikon has only put full lens support on higher level cameras. Cameras like the D80 have the AF motor, but don't have the correct bits to work with full manual lenses. You have to buy a D200 for that. And for the most part it doesn't matter.

 

[Glen Barrington]

If you truely feel that way, then move on to another site. There are plenty of them to choose from. I have a couple of favorite 4/3s only sites I also enjoy using when I want a loving and supportive environment.

Personally I don't care if this site is biased or not. I don't think it is, but I don't care if it is biased. The operators of this site are entitled to an opinion and to express it as they see fit. They are also entitled to schedule their reviews according to the client base, what's available, and any other considerations they see fit. This is a business not a fan site.

If you can do better, do it! I'll sign up if its a general purppose site.

--
Never trust a man who spells the word 'cheese' with a 'z'

 

[Ken_5D]

If you truely feel that way, then move on to another site. There
are plenty of them to choose from. I have a couple of favorite
4/3s only sites I also enjoy using when I want a loving and
supportive environment.

Personally I don't care if this site is biased or not. I don't
think it is, but I don't care if it is biased. The operators of
this site are entitled to an opinion and to express it as they see
fit. They are also entitled to schedule their reviews according
to the client base, what's available, and any other considerations
they see fit. This is a business not a fan site.

If you can do better, do it! I'll sign up if its a general
purppose site.

I'll hold you to that... I registered the domain last year but even now often am too busy to keep up on just chatting here. I like the Forums.. the people are good here.

Never trust a man who spells the word 'cheese' with a 'z'

--
------------
Ken - KM 5D
http://www.cascadephotoworks.com