DPR reviews/reviewers

[skibum02116]

Over a period of time, those who have been forum members learned to identify the various preferences and idiosyncracies of Phil and Simon and were able to take those into account when reading their reviews. Now, however, we have new reviewers like Lars and Richard, so it will take some time to learn their quirks as we did with Phil and Simon. I believe that once we, and they, complete the learning curve there will be less controversy. That said, I do find that both Phil and Simon have become a little prickly when issues about reviews have been raised. Also, the issue of numerical scores needs to be clarified. It makes no sense that the Canon EOS 1000d with 49.5 points is Highly Recommernded while the a350 with the same score is only Recommended, not to mention that the a200 with 50 points is Highly Recommended (just) Clearly some parts of these scores are weighted more heavily by the reviewer, so it would be good to know which ones and if they are consistent from reviewer to reviewer.
--
jkwex

 

[Gregory King]

Great...just what I want in a "review". A completely biased interpretation by an anal-retentive prima donna that must be "translated" into objectivespeak before being useful.

Wonderful.

 

[A200Eric]

Great...just what I want in a "review". A completely biased
interpretation by an anal-retentive prima donna that must be
"translated" into objectivespeak before being useful.

Wonderful.

Couldn't have said it better. The reviews here are worthless at best.
--
Always learning.

 

[Darrin Behm]

Just skip right over the conclusions page and go straight to the samples.

Also don't read it word for word....read about every fifth sentence and just
look at the comparison results.



Darrin
--
ださかわ

 

[beakydave]

I've said it before and I'll keep saying it - ignore the numbers, they're meaningless.

Have a look instead at the list of cons on the 1000D - how can anyone in their right mind highly recommend a camera with weaknesses on that scale?

It's patently obvious that the most significant factor in establishing the conclusion is the badge.

Great...just what I want in a "review". A completely biased
interpretation by an anal-retentive prima donna that must be
"translated" into objectivespeak before being useful.

Wonderful.

Couldn't have said it better. The reviews here are worthless at best.
--
Always learning.

 

[vak0125]

It should be easy enough to give some criteria 20 points instead of 10 to factor that. I try to assume no bias in reviews but there is no way I can say it now. Some clarification about testing should be given to remove confusion. Either the score is absolute (only the best camera on the market gets HR - say MARK 3 - price does not matter) or based on level (best in PRO studio, PRO field, Amateur PRO, Amateur ADV, Amateur BEGINNER - price does matter). In either case 1000D should not get HR. Seriously. Is 1000D in league with A200 or A350 (price or feature wise)? Both are better camera (in most respect) and both got lower rating. DPR please explain yourself. For years I was recommending this site as a source of good reviews. I'm not sure I can do it any more.
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Michal

A700 +Tamron17-50&Tamron70-300
A300 + SAL18200

 

[Dennis]

Over a period of time, those who have been forum members learned to
identify the various preferences and idiosyncracies of Phil and Simon
and were able to take those into account when reading their reviews.
Now, however, we have new reviewers like Lars and Richard, so it will
take some time to learn their quirks as we did with Phil and Simon. I
believe that once we, and they, complete the learning curve there
will be less controversy.

I don't think so. I guess the question is: what purpose does the summary rating serve ? My guess is that most people ignore it, but the consumers who know nothing about photography and endlessly ask "I know this has been asked before but what camera should I buy ?" in the Beginner forum are the ones most likely to buy according to that rating. (After all, most of us already own DSLRs and aren't about to switch brands over a feature here or there; it's the newbie who doesn't own a single lens who can actually decide between N/C/S/P/O). And they're not going to take time to study the personalities of the reviewers.

Beyond the possibility of faulty reviews impacting sales, when the 2nd tier manufacturers already have enough of a struggle against the "big two", there isn't really much reason to fuss over the reviews. We all cheer when we see Sony marketing the Alpha line, hoping that increased market share translates to more new product announcements (as compared to the KM days). Complaining about perceived slights in the reviews is just an extension of that.

I defended dpr's review of the A350; I find it's combination of a 14MP sensor and entry level VF/LV system (with subpar ability to verify critical focus or DOF) an odd combination that doesn't really serve any substantial portion of the market nearly as well as it should. OTOH, I think the A300, with 10MP and a lower price tag, a brilliant entry level camera, and the A200 a great price performer, and I can't see why the 1000D would necessarily be more highly recommended to the target market (which the review author claims the earlier Rebel created). I think it's "safer" to recommend Canon or Nikon.

• Dennis

--
Gallery at http://kingofthebeasts.smugmug.com

 

[eye-spy]

Once you work with journalists you will realise they only say what they have been told to say or what will give them the most income.

most of them dont have clue about what they are on about.

as long as advertisers pay their bills everything else does not matter.

money talks and walks

and thats a fact!

--
Praise be to Sony for saving the A mount.

 

[Ralf B]

--
Ralf

 

[Simon Joinson]

Great...just what I want in a "review". A completely biased
interpretation by an anal-retentive prima donna that must be
"translated" into objectivespeak before being useful.

Wonderful.

Couldn't have said it better. The reviews here are worthless at best.

I know! And then we just get all 'prickly' about feedback like this! Anyone would think we were human!

--
Simon Joinson, dpreview.com

 

[liquid stereo]

Really, they must be read with a really strong filter. One has to use one's brain and ignore all judgement/value-loaded content. Seriously.

Great...just what I want in a "review". A completely biased
interpretation by an anal-retentive prima donna that must be
"translated" into objectivespeak before being useful.

Wonderful.

Couldn't have said it better. The reviews here are worthless at best.
--
Always learning.

--
Direct your eye right inward, and you'll find a thousand
regions in your mind Yet undiscovered. Travel them, and
be Expert in home-cosmography.
-H.D. Thoreau

 

[Chasen]

Are your feeble minds so weak as to not to be able to comprehend that six numerical ratings, which do not directly correlate to the final recommendation, do not override 35 pages of factual review content.

Just admit you do not like the fact that the review does not support your fan-boyish desire for your precious little camera.

What a bunch of children.....

 

[Ken_5D]

Once you work with journalists you will realise they only say what
they have been told to say or what will give them the most income.

most of them dont have clue about what they are on about.

as long as advertisers pay their bills everything else does not matter.

money talks and walks

and thats a fact!

Sony Alpha is the only single brand camera I see advertised and a lot on this site

The rest tend to be generic Amazon "buy cameras here" ads or other photography stuff.

I like to nit pick some of the reviews for writing precision and facts, but this is a pretty harsh thread I think is being too hard on these guys...

--
Praise be to Sony for saving the A mount.

--
Ken_ 5D
(Happy A700 owner who hasn't sold the 5D yet hmm?)
See my stuff at http://www.cascadephotoworks.com
Read the detailed reviews at http://www.dpreview.com
Then read great Sony user info at: http://www.photoclubalpha.com

 

[Simon Joinson]

Once you work with journalists you will realise they only say what
they have been told to say or what will give them the most income.

most of them dont have clue about what they are on about.

as long as advertisers pay their bills everything else does not matter.

money talks and walks

and thats a fact!

--
Praise be to Sony for saving the A mount.

Love this - very efficient technique you got there, not a word wasted, a sweeping generalization and a cast iron proof ('that's a fact' - can't argue with that). I wait in dread the for day I have to explain to my son that 'i was only following orders' when he's old enough to ask what i did for a living... Oh the shame...

And to think you get all this from the fact that those philanthropic, saintly folks at Sony failed to impress us enough for your liking with their latest gift to the world. Here's to the selfless and charitable souls at Sony who fight the good fight for the A mount in the face of big evil businesses like camera review websites, asking for nothing in return (except, perhaps, a small payment to cover costs). Praise be indeed to little, plucky Sony; they are the good guys, faced with the bullying might of a handful of 'journalists' with test charts.
;-)

--
Simon Joinson, dpreview.com

 

[NickGreen]

...and whats wrong with that? Yes, Dpreview are biased. And unsurprisingly they're biased towards image quality. If you don't like that preference they're plenty of alternatives with a more forgiving approach to camera reviews.

Thats why the Canons over and over again get the gold stars at DPreview. The new budget model will still give the same trade mark Canon cmos qualities of its much more expensive brothers. If your passion is image quality you just couldn't mark it down as its still a class leader in IQ.

Sadly for Sony whilst making good dslrs they're still not quite there with Canon on the Image quality front as shown in the Dpreview IQ tests.

I say to Dpreview carry on being happily biased to image quality!

Nick

 

[NickGreen]

Simon,

I cant remember how many thousands of posts you get daily - perhaps you have some kind of filter on tonight that puts all angry irrational threads in the Sony forum tonight??!

Switch it off quick before big Phill sees this stuff!

Regards,

Nick

 

[GiovanniB]

Simon,

I'm sorry to see how the slightest glitch in a review that occurs and that is felt by some people to be unfair towards their favourite camera brand leads to such debates, and how quick some are to accuse dpreview.com of being biased and of being paid for certain results by certain companies.

It seems to me that your ethics code gives a clear statement regarding these issues. Maybe there would be some sense in also:

• adding defined procedures for revising reviews after initial publishing to correct errors

• switching from manufacturer-supplied items to such purchased at randomly chosen retail locations for reviewing them, particularly for consumer-oriented cameras and lenses (say, everything below a certain price point). Premium products can still be provided by the manufacturers on a loan basis - here it makes less difference because professionals often also have direct support from the manufacturer.

• defining stricter rules for the forums; someone who constantly accuses dpreview of breaking their own ethics code should be required to prove it or be banned (after a warning).

Regards,

Johannes

Great...just what I want in a "review". A completely biased
interpretation by an anal-retentive prima donna that must be
"translated" into objectivespeak before being useful.

Wonderful.

Couldn't have said it better. The reviews here are worthless at best.

I know! And then we just get all 'prickly' about feedback like this!
Anyone would think we were human!

 

[Dennis]

And to think you get all this from the fact that those philanthropic,
saintly folks at Sony failed to impress us enough for your liking
with their latest gift to the world.

Heh - well, even among those of us who might disagree with whether the 1000D ought to be recommended over the A200, I think there are few (I hope there are few) who subscribe to this analysis of the dpreview reviewers.

Ctein just wrote a little piece over on Mike Johnston's "The Online Photographer" about the review business and ethics therein. I tend to believe that there are plenty of clueless non-reviews out there (you know them when you see them; 2 paragraphs in a tech blog about a camera by someone who isn't a photographer), but that financial motivation ("payola" in Ctein's article) just really doesn't come into play.

I'm not even sure to what degree any bias (if it exists) would play into these reviews; I have to believe that when N & C dominate the market, they're easy to recommend; if 80% of camera owners are happy with them, it's likely that it's safe to recommend them ... and while a review is a review of a camera, when you're walking around taking pictures over a few weeks with a handful of cameras, system considerations have to influence your thoughts on the camera and if you enjoy shooting a USM lens over a screw drive lens, or have certain lenses to try on one camera versus another, that could impact this "feeling" the reviewer gets. It would be almost impossible to not have some preconceptions and want to recommend a particular brand - when I say N & C are "safe" that's because no matter what someone wants to do with their photography, those brands offer a solution. Sony may offer a better solution to a given photographer, but at this point, probably to fewer photographers. (Entry level: A200 & A300 are nice, but Canon has good kit lenses with IS and these buyers are unlikely to branch out from there ... Sony stabilizes all your lenses ... great if you already own them, otherwise the 100/2 is going for nearly $1000 in the used market, the 28/2 and 35/2 are rare & expensive and many other lenses are yet to be released ... can you recommend the A700 highly without taking those factor into account ?). I don't know if I believe there's bias (and whether that's different from rationale, subjective preference) and I don't know if I think it's a problem if there is. I just don't happen to agree with summaries of a couple recent reviews relative to each other. And I don't know how much that has to do with my own bias

The reviews are still as thorough as ever; the reviewers point out more features & flaws than anyone else and the objective portions are probably without peer. I'd still love to see the "Recommended" summary just disappear ... but these accusations of "worthless" reviews and unethical reviewers don't help anyone. I'm sure the dpr staff is just dying to do whatever they can to serve their Alpha-shooting contingent ... or not.

• Dennis

--
Gallery at http://kingofthebeasts.smugmug.com

 

[caporip]

lol

You mean Sony isnt a rescue charity? Aaah THAT explains the high prices.

On a slightly more serious note it would be good to know if there was a weighting in favour of any score categories although frankly i cant get too worked up about the reviews on the site overall they seem reasonable to me. In any case beyond true scientifically measurable and verifiable comparisons any review is going to be subjective to a degree. As long as you accept that I dont see the problem. I get a bit sick of of the Sony is under assessed threads I love my a700 im happy with the results and if a review causes you to regret your purchase then that is your problem not the site's.
--
More kit than i probably need.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rb56/

 

[SET Man]

LOL

Take care,
Buddy