Different Types of 'look' from Adapted Lenses

[PhotosByHall]

Hi all,

I'm a big fan of adapted \ vintage lenses. When I am doing a portrait \ studio shoot, once the standard shots are done, the interesting glass comes out for a bit of fun\unique shots\experimentation at the end.

What I am trying to get to is the 'looks' that vintage\adapted can produce.

So to give an example of what I mean.

I have Helios 44-4m, lensbaby twist and a lensbaby velvet. Those lenses cover off 'Petzval\Swirly Bokeh' and 'Soft' as appropriate.

What I want to know is if there are any kinds of special 'looks' I am missing out on.

For instance, I was looking at a Trioplan 100mm f/2.8 £99 'bubble bokeh' lens last night, that looks something pretty different, and I would be up for adding one to the collection.

This is for lenses that give 'unique' looks, obviously there are millions of subdivisions within each category for strength of effect, overall sharpness etc, but its about suggesting a lens in each category to get each kind of effect.

Preferably not ruinously expensive (adapted glass is no longer a cheap form of GAS)

So I've got...

Soft

Petzval\Swirly

Bubble Machine

Sweet Spot

As some categories... what am I missing, what lenses do you recommend?

Cheers all!

 

[Tomasg71]

One lens comes to mind, Biotar 75 f1.5, and i don t mean it only for the swirl it can give, not cheap though. Another lens that gives a peculiar look to images is the MOG Primoplan 58 f1.9, perhaps not as bubbly as the other MOGs lenses (Trioplans).

Check the link (i use google translate), apart the Biotar 75 there aremany more lenses used by the guy...check around hi site.

https://hispan.hu/biotar-75mm/

https://hispan.hu/hispan-10-kedvenc-objektivje/

It s also interesting to explore different optical formulas, for portraits try a Jupiter 9 or a Jupitar 3, copies of German lenses, Sonnar design.

 

[Lightshow]

One lens comes to mind, Biotar 75 f1.5

The Helios 40 85/1.5 is a clone of this Biotar, another lens based on it is the Meopta Meostigmat 70/1.4 projection lens, but it has no helicoid or Aperture system.

, and i don t mean it only for the swirl it can give, not cheap though. Another lens that gives a peculiar look to images is the MOG Primoplan 58 f1.9, perhaps not as bubbly as the other MOGs lenses (Trioplans).

Check the link (i use google translate), apart the Biotar 75 there aremany more lenses used by the guy...check around hi site.

https://hispan.hu/biotar-75mm/

https://hispan.hu/hispan-10-kedvenc-objektivje/

It s also interesting to explore different optical formulas, for portraits try a Jupiter 9 or a Jupitar 3, copies of German lenses, Sonnar design.

Jupiter 3 is based on the 50/1.5 planar, there are many many copies of this lens, Nikkor, Canon, Leica, and Topcon all made clones, there may be others.

 

[fferreres]

Jupiter 3 is based on the 50/1.5 planar, there are many many copies of this lens, Nikkor, Canon, Leica, and Topcon all made clones, there may be others.

I am almost sure you meant 50/1.5 Sonnar (RF for Contax), and it was just a typo as you know this lens well.

 

[fferreres]

Hi all,

I'm a big fan of adapted \ vintage lenses. When I am doing a portrait \ studio shoot, once the standard shots are done, the interesting glass comes out for a bit of fun\unique shots\experimentation at the end.

What I am trying to get to is the 'looks' that vintage\adapted can produce.

I think many would object, that vintage and character are not always equivalent. Some lenses made 80 years ago have less character than some lenses done today that are not even cheap.

But, some/many have a distinctive look. I making the clarification just so we avoid being "all offended", lol.

So to give an example of what I mean.

I have Helios 44-4m, lensbaby twist and a lensbaby velvet. Those lenses cover off 'Petzval\Swirly Bokeh' and 'Soft' as appropriate.

Many 44-m4 will not give much swirl or at all. But if yours does, then great! Part of it may be these was the ones that had some defect. I STRONGLY suggest you research posts about "Helios" and "reversed element". I think you'll marvel at some things that can be achieve by reversing one, or even more elements in this simple lens.

Many "fun" lenses can be made this way. Many Jupiter or Industar lenses cost maybe $15, and many variants have these kind of fun changes. The reversing is reversible. We want to try not to uin a good lens for the fun...it's very easy to do, just handle the optics with care.

What I want to know is if there are any kinds of special 'looks' I am missing out on.

For instance, I was looking at a Trioplan 100mm f/2.8 £99 'bubble bokeh' lens last night, that looks something pretty different, and I would be up for adding one to the collection.

This is for lenses that give 'unique' looks, obviously there are millions of subdivisions within each category for strength of effect, overall sharpness etc, but its about suggesting a lens in each category to get each kind of effect.

Preferably not ruinously expensive (adapted glass is no longer a cheap form of GAS)

So I've got...

Soft

Petzval\Swirly

Bubble Machine

Sweet Spot

As some categories... what am I missing, what lenses do you recommend?

You are missing the:

Stereoscopic lenses. Crap quality but you get to take one shot, and be able to see the image pop in 3D with a $1 lens with red/cyan. There was a zoom, maybe costs $80, that can do that out of the box. It's a fun lens for those extra 4 minutes with the subject.

The brand was Vivitar, I can remember the name. Something sounding ENDOS...surely it's not exactly that, but look for a zoom with some fancy name. Search Vivitar 3D (or stereo) in ebay to identify.

NOT vintage necarily, but did you try "custom bokeh shapes"? Search internet if not. You just cut some shape and stick it to the front of the lens. You need something to produce specular highlights in the background like christmass lights or so. Good for the upcoming season!

The only lenses in the world that have triangular IRIS are made by Zeiss, and can make a very "artistic" background, that some love, and some dislike. Movies like Taxi with Robert De Niro, or even The Sining used this lens (in Arri mount). This are not toy lenses, and the only version you will be able to find are in QBM (Rollei) ($$$) mount, Arriflex / PL ($$$$$) or Contarex mount ($$$$$$$$$$$$$$$).

Some Contax lenses (1970+) on AE version have "ninja bokeh" between 1 stop down wide open and f5.6. Some other brands too. Again, only if the backround has some highlights or anything to show the bokeh circle shapes.

The Jupiter 9 is the perfect "veiling lens". Instead of complaining about the glow wide open, and about how it flares badly, many people that understand this lens (which borrows the design from a 1930 85/2 lens by Zeiss) is king of Flares, Glow and ...often, swirliness. Do not get the very modern 1980s+ multi coated version for this!

Cheers all!

There are a million other things. But the issue is many are subtle...and you want the things to be noticeable by anyone, not subtle. The Minolta 58/1.2 is a super-soft ultra-classic. $300. Tends to require careful attention. If not serviced and lube with the right thing, it's easy to get oil on blades, and then you have to send it in anyway.

There are,as you say, a billion more things to try. See which ones give you most joy. There are some Fujinon with very remarkable bokeh. I can't remember the names, but they have a different structure which makes the bokeh pleasant, but odd!

 

[verybiglebowski]

Hi all,

I'm a big fan of adapted \ vintage lenses. When I am doing a portrait \ studio shoot, once the standard shots are done, the interesting glass comes out for a bit of fun\unique shots\experimentation at the end.

What I am trying to get to is the 'looks' that vintage\adapted can produce.

So to give an example of what I mean.

I have Helios 44-4m, lensbaby twist and a lensbaby velvet. Those lenses cover off 'Petzval\Swirly Bokeh' and 'Soft' as appropriate.

What I want to know is if there are any kinds of special 'looks' I am missing out on.

For instance, I was looking at a Trioplan 100mm f/2.8 £99 'bubble bokeh' lens last night, that looks something pretty different, and I would be up for adding one to the collection.

Just be careful not to buy some other lens described as bubble bokeh like trioplan instead of the real thing. Normally, Trioplan will sell for 300£+. The good alternatives are Pentacon AV 80/2.8 or the same lens named Diaplan. Both lenses are projector lenses without aperture and focus helicoid though. Pentacon 100/2.8 is a different lens, based on a later Orestor 100/2.8 and does not produce same bubble effect like Trioplan. If you want completely crazy bubbles, just flip the rear element on your Helios 44.

This is for lenses that give 'unique' looks, obviously there are millions of subdivisions within each category for strength of effect, overall sharpness etc, but its about suggesting a lens in each category to get each kind of effect.

Preferably not ruinously expensive (adapted glass is no longer a cheap form of GAS)

So I've got...

Soft

Petzval\Swirly

Bubble Machine

Sweet Spot

As some categories... what am I missing, what lenses do you recommend?

Cheers all!

There are a few categories that you might add

Double circle bokeh - only lens that I know about to makes it is Kilfitt Makro Kilar 90/2.8. I am sure there must be some others.

Various shape bokeh - stars, squares, hearts and other crazy emoji style. Lensbaby sells a set of various aperture shapes with a few empty ones to cut off whatever you like (for some composer optics).

Super smooth bokeh (maybe that’s what you call smooth?) - lenses with apodizing feature - Minolta/Sony 135/2.8, Laowa 105/2, Sony 100/2.8 STF and a few others.

But I believe that not only bokeh should be of the interest when looking for the lens character (using aberrations as a creative tool).

Apart of the sharpness and its distribution across the frame, flaring is another aberration to look for, not only in terms of different flares (fire circle, all sorts of eclipses etc.) but also in terms of contrast loss, color shift and analogue look.

I will post bellow few illustrative images of some of my favorite portrait lenses.

Cheers,

Viktor

 

[verybiglebowski]

As fferes mentioned triangular bokeh, the affordable solution is to either search for eBay seller who modify Helios 44 to it (usually they do square, but I have seen triangular too) or consider CZJ Tevidon C-mount lenses. 25/1.4 will cover M4/3 (need a bit of work), 35 and above will cover APS-C and 100/2.8 should cover FF (I sold mine and don’t remember).

However, Tevidons needs to be stopped to smallest possible aperture (around f/11) in order to create triangular shape.



Tevidons are great quality lenses made for 16mm cameras, my favorite is 35/1.9, latest models by Docter Optics.

Already mentioned Kilfitt Makro Kilar 90/2.8 has very specific double circle bokeh. In this example it’s not that obvious, it works best for X-mass tree lights or night cityscapes.



As noted above, STF lenses are made to render creamy oof areas with smooth transitions. Here is Laowa 105/2



One of my recently admired lenses is MOG Primoplan (all that I have are very similar). Here is Primoplan 10cm f/1.9



MOG Trioplan is a master of bubble bokeh, but it doesn’t mean that it will create crazy bubbles in every situation. The strength of the effect depends in the background structure, distance and lighting. Trioplan is an interesting lens, its hype period is probably over, but that doesn’t mean that it can’t create nice images.



Finally, to avoid long posts, my recently most used legacy lens is MOG Domiron 50/2 which not only render vivid colors and interesting bokeh, but can add some flaring flavor.







Cheers,

Viktor

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viktor_viktor

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[fferreres]

Excellent that you shared great examples. Lovely model, how she grabs her hair and poses. Lol. And wife-friendly too!!!

 

[PhotosByHall]

Some excellent responses in this thread.

I will take a look on ebay and see what there is.

I might follow up with a question about clones for the more crazy expensive lenses.

Thanks all so far.

 

[chaimav]

There is always the donut bokeh of a mirror lens. No particular brand needed for the bokeh, but for the rest of the image some are better than others.

And for cheap bubble bokeh, look at the Fujinon 55mm f2.2.

 

[Sjak]

Various shape bokeh - stars, squares, hearts and other crazy emoji style. Lensbaby sells a set of various aperture shapes with a few empty ones to cut off whatever you like (for some composer optics).

Re star-bokeh:

The Volna-9 and the industar 61 L/Z, both 50mm f/2.8 1:2 macro-lenses, have star-shaped aperture between f4-f8. Both are nice lenses for close-up-work. The Industar is very compact on top of that. It's impirtant to get the SLR-version in M42, as other Industar-61-lenses are rangefinder-lenses.

 

[verybiglebowski]

Various shape bokeh - stars, squares, hearts and other crazy emoji style. Lensbaby sells a set of various aperture shapes with a few empty ones to cut off whatever you like (for some composer optics).

Re star-bokeh:

The Volna-9 and the industar 61 L/Z, both 50mm f/2.8 1:2 macro-lenses, have star-shaped aperture between f4-f8. Both are nice lenses for close-up-work. The Industar is very compact on top of that. It's impirtant to get the SLR-version in M42, as other Industar-61-lenses are rangefinder-lenses.

Industar is a fine lens when stopped down. As you wrote it creates a sort of the ninja stars from 5.6 which would be more visible in a sunlight or night scenes.



For the reference here are stars



And hearts



from Lensbaby composer.



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[wastedimages]

I moved to Sony for the EVF with my manual primes.

I was a Pentax guy so the 3 lenses that they will have to pry out of my cold dead hands are

SMC K 28 3.5

SMC K 30 2.8

SMC K 135 2.5

I always wanted to buy the limited primes but I felt that there are so many photos I loved from the 70s and 80s that were taken with what we call vintage glass, it made me realise that it was the skill rather than the equipment that made a good photo

 

[verybiglebowski]

I moved to Sony for the EVF with my manual primes.

I was a Pentax guy so the 3 lenses that they will have to pry out of my cold dead hands are

SMC K 28 3.5

SMC K 30 2.8

SMC K 135 2.5

I always wanted to buy the limited primes but I felt that there are so many photos I loved from the 70s and 80s that were taken with what we call vintage glass, it made me realise that it was the skill rather than the equipment that made a good photo

I have the first two you mentioned and they are indeed nice lenses.

OP asked for sort of signature bokeh lenses and there are very few that I can put in that category. Basically none of my legacy Canon (except 50/0.95), Nikon, Pentax, Minolta (except 135/2.8 STF), Leica R/M, Zeiss, are capable of producing “signature bokeh” look, because most of them are better corrected than these that can render it. They are technically better lenses than Meyer Gorlitz and some other exotic ones which I like to use.

Recently however, I shot more BW film than digital for my pleasure and that is a different story. Instead of looking for the weird bokeh, I value other aspects - size, contrast, flare resistance, focus throw etc. Right now I have film loaded in a Pentax MX with the small Pentax M 40/2.8. I am curious to see how it will compare with the Contax 40/2.8, Olympus 40/2.0, Nikkor GN and probably Minolta 45/2.0 all with the Kodak T-Max from the same batch.

Then, Monday comes, I pick my digital set with the modern lenses and go out to make some cash...

P.S. When I shot these Bokehdelic shots yesterday for the OP, I played with one of them taken with the Domiron 50/2 and I put it on FB just for fun.

Today my client asked me, who is that beautiful girl on the shot. Scarlett Johansson I said as it would be completely normal. Almost speechless he managed to ask - you know her? Sure I said, she lives in my apartment few years already. I bought her on eBay for a few bucks (well the doll doesn’t really look like Scarlett but it was advertised as such).

Now that says something about our recent photo perception habits - smartphone size, 1s of attention and gone for ever... For that, any lens is better than needed.


Sony A7R II + Domrion 50/2 processed on iPad (several softwares)

Cheers,

Viktor



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[PhotosByHall]

I love that Domiron.

Probably my fave of what's been posted so far. It's got quite the price tag attached though

So... This has been a cool and useful thread with some awesome pics.

Something I forgot to mention earlier was everything needs adapting to Canon EF or EF-S. I'm planning to use these on a 5d4 and an M50.


Digesting the info has taken a while, but I'm looking at :

A jupiter 9 or 3 Like the dreamy look and the flare these produce.

• These work on Full Frame right? So I am looking at a standard m42 to Canon EF adaptor?

One of the Bubblemachine MOG *plan lenses

• Quite expensive! Now, the bit I don't get - projection lenses? So they have no aperture or helicoid?
• What's a helicoid? (that's the bit you twist to get focus right?)
• Someone suggested that the Pentacon AV 80 2.8 is a cheaper clone, but it's a projection lens.

Pardon our interruption...

This has been converted to EF, so will this function like a normal manual EF lens on my Canon bodies?

The Domiron is defo my fave - but it has a price tag to match

Does it have a cheaper clone?

 

[verybiglebowski]

I love that Domiron.

Probably my fave of what's been posted so far. It's got quite the price tag attached though

So... This has been a cool and useful thread with some awesome pics.

Something I forgot to mention earlier was everything needs adapting to Canon EF or EF-S. I'm planning to use these on a 5d4 and an M50.

Digesting the info has taken a while, but I'm looking at :

A jupiter 9 or 3 Like the dreamy look and the flare these produce.

• These work on Full Frame right? So I am looking at a standard m42 to Canon EF adaptor?

Nope. Jupiter 9 in M42 should work on EOS DSLR but you have to ask the seller, since there were few made for rangefinder distance in LTM with added adapter to M42. Jupiter 3 however was made only for range finder flange distance AFAIK - (Leica thread mount aka LTM or m39 and old Contax/Kiev RF). These lenses (Jupiter 3) are therefore not possible to adapt to the longer flange distance of a DSLR (Canon 5D IV) but you can use them on M50 with the appropriate mount (m39-EF-M or similar depending on the lens mount).

One of the Bubblemachine MOG *plan lenses

• Quite expensive! Now, the bit I don't get - projection lenses? So they have no aperture or helicoid?
• What's a helicoid? (that's the bit you twist to get focus right?)
• Someone suggested that the Pentacon AV 80 2.8 is a cheaper clone, but it's a projection lens.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pentacon...006533?hash=item1a9c371a05:g:eQIAAOSw0-5fAPmD

This has been converted to EF, so will this function like a normal manual EF lens on my Canon bodies?

Yes, that’s the solution I described bellow with the cheap focusing tube.

The Domiron is defo my fave - but it has a price tag to match

Does it have a cheaper clone?

I suggested Pentacon AV (Diaplan) 80/2.8 as an alternative but as I wrote - there is no focusing or aperture. Focusing can be made with some m52 focus helicoids but you should find someone who will make it for you and that would add another 100-200 USD to the price. You can also make something yourself, some of these lenses will come with the primitive focusing tube from the projector and you can glue the adaptor to it. To render bubbles, you will always use lens wide open, so lack of the aperture is not a big issue.

I don’t have the bubble example from Diaplan, but use Flickr to search for it and you will find (apart from the rendering samples) also the lens adaptation pictures with info.

Finally, you can glue the adapter directly to the lens (e.g. M42 to EF-M) and focus by moving your body (good for flowers).

As an alternative someone above suggested Fujinon 55/2.2 (don’t know the lens), or you can check MOG Trioplan 50/2.9 or E.Ludwig Meritar 50/2.9 as a cheaper alternatives. Basically any older triplet should be able to produce bubbles to some extent.

Finally, the cheapest solution is to flip your rear glass in the Helios 44 as I suggested earlier.

This is a non destructive modification and you can reverse it later when you get bored by bubbles. Lens will become softer and focus distances will be all off but you can get some serious bubbles up to donut madness.





In a conclusion:

1. Only lenses made for SLR flange distances, can be adapted to Canon EF (most of them but not all e.g. Minolta or Canon Fd can’t without corrective optics). Lenses made for the Range Finder (RF) distances can be adapted to Mirrorless bodies only such as M50.

2. To use the most of the aberrations in order to create “wild” bokeh, you might want a full frame camera (to keep the things simple I won’t elaborate on a focal reducers now)

3. Cheaper Trioplan alternatives for the bubble bokeh are projector lenses such as Diaplan 80/2.8 and few others, Fujinon 55/2.2 (I don’t know it), Trioplan/Meritar 50/2.9, Helios 44 with flipped rear element, and probably several others that I forgot or don’t know about.

Cheers,

Viktor

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[E Dinkla]

The only lenses in the world that have triangular IRIS are made by Zeiss, and can make a very "artistic" background, that some love, and some dislike. Movies like Taxi with Robert De Niro, or even The Sining used this lens (in Arri mount). This are not toy lenses, and the only version you will be able to find are in QBM (Rollei) ($$$) mount, Arriflex / PL ($$$$$) or Contarex mount ($$$$$$$$$$$$$$$).

Some Contax lenses (1970+) on AE version have "ninja bokeh" between 1 stop down wide open and f5.6. Some other brands too. Again, only if the backround has some highlights or anything to show the bokeh circle shapes.

If mount conversion is included for this search then the Ricoh FF1 camera lens Rikenon 35mm 2.8 gives you a triangular aperture too and I am sure you will find it in more inexpensive compact film camera lenses. Those cameras are a good source for even more odd aperture shapes and the lens quality can be surprisingly good. Matt's Crazy Lens Adventurers https://www.flickr.com/photos/59224964@N05/albums/ shows some of them.

For slight Ninja Bokeh the Tokina AT-X 90mm 2.5 can be used as well.

Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
No photographer's gear list is complete without the printer mentioned !

 

[Tom Caldwell]

I was a bit surprised at the super-cheap Meyer Trioplan 100/2.8 myself thinking that perhaps the crazy prices had finally found the bottom of the market. But maybe I am wrong - once pushed into the reality of rock-star the quantity/quality on the market determines prices.

 

[fferreres]

The only lenses in the world that have triangular IRIS are made by Zeiss, and can make a very "artistic" background, that some love, and some dislike. Movies like Taxi with Robert De Niro, or even The Sining used this lens (in Arri mount). This are not toy lenses, and the only version you will be able to find are in QBM (Rollei) ($$$) mount, Arriflex / PL ($$$$$) or Contarex mount ($$$$$$$$$$$$$$$).

Some Contax lenses (1970+) on AE version have "ninja bokeh" between 1 stop down wide open and f5.6. Some other brands too. Again, only if the backround has some highlights or anything to show the bokeh circle shapes.

If mount conversion is included for this search then the Ricoh FF1 camera lens Rikenon 35mm 2.8 gives you a triangular aperture too and I am sure you will find it in more inexpensive compact film camera lenses. Those cameras are a good source for even more odd aperture shapes and the lens quality can be surprisingly good. Matt's Crazy Lens Adventurers https://www.flickr.com/photos/59224964@N05/albums/ shows some of them.

For slight Ninja Bokeh the Tokina AT-X 90mm 2.5 can be used as well.

Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
No photographer's gear list is complete without the printer mentioned !

This is a great option. I can't convert mounts, so I am limited to qute expensive triangular lenses by Zeiss. I heard of the square aperture of some Russian lenses, which seems all fun too.

My journey was, after some character on blur fun, I started to be more interested in the particular lens design trade offs (optics vs just immediately tellable background effects). I find, coming back to triangilar paerture, a triangular aperture is ALMOST or maybe SOMEWHAT akin to an apodized optics. Basically, the outer regions are dimmed, in one case through darker outer glass, but in the triagular case, with a larger mix of center glass vs outer: depending on the way the paerture actually works...yes, it is a bit like a cheaper alternative to apoditization, with triangular bokeh consequences.

 

[PhotosByHall]

Nope. Jupiter 9 in M42 should work on EOS DSLR but you have to ask the seller, since there were few made for rangefinder distance in LTM with added adapter to M42. Jupiter 3 however was made only for range finder flange distance AFAIK - (Leica thread mount aka LTM or m39 and old Contax/Kiev RF). These lenses (Jupiter 3) are therefore not possible to adapt to the longer flange distance of a DSLR (Canon 5D IV) but you can use them on M50 with the appropriate mount (m39-EF-M or similar depending on the lens mount).

That should be ok - these will be 99% of the time on my EOS M50, either with or without a speedbooster for focal reduction as appropriate.

This has been converted to EF, so will this function like a normal manual EF lens on my Canon bodies?

Yes, that’s the solution I described bellow with the cheap focusing tube.

The Domiron is defo my fave - but it has a price tag to match

Does it have a cheaper clone?

I don’t have the bubble example from Diaplan, but use Flickr t

Finally, the cheapest solution is to flip your rear glass in the Helios 44 as I suggested earlier.

This is a non destructive modification and you can reverse it later when you get bored by bubbles. Lens will become softer and focus distances will be all off but you can get some serious bubbles up to donut madness.

Were these two images taken on a reversed Helios? I love the portrait shot.

I have a 44-2 and a 44-4, the 44-2 gives flare and haze and glow, which makes it interesting. The 44-4 is a competent, sharp portrait lens.

But I've got loads of competent portrait lenses! So it's gonna get modified!

I'm in the same boat, which is the whole point of this thread, I've gotten awesome Canon glass to shoot with, its about looking for something different\something unique. Earn with the Canon glass and shoot this stuff for fun!

Was it a 44-4 or a 44-2? (or does it not matter)