D800 Concerns

[lturnerwa]

Like a number of users out there I'm coming from a DX (D300) to my first FF camera. I have shot test files (in the store) with both D800 and D600 (raw) and worked with them in both LR and PS 6 so I'm aware of the size issues.

I'm a pro-sumer, which means I don't make my living with my camera, however I expect professional results. I shoot everything, landscapes, people, travel, some action like kids playing, birds and animals, not to much sports.

I have 70-200 2.8 and 105 2.8 Macro and 50 1.8. I would get for now the 24-85 bu at some point will look a the 24-70 2.8.

What concerns me about the D800 from all that I have read is how big a pain is to use on day to day basis with issue like:

motion blur
sharpness
focus issues ( ie technique)
having to shoot at fast shutter speeds
shooting in low light

I read comments like it's a "studio camera" a "tripod camera". I would like to get feed back from some D800 user who have used it for more that an month. Any showstoppers for you.

As for the D600, I really wonder what I'm giving up and would I be sorry later, the same goes for the D800 only it's not what I give but how much pain and frustration I'm going to have.

I'm considering renting one for a day but it about $250 a day, it might be money well spent.

 

[Microshooter]

I too am not a pro but want pro results. I went from the D90 to the D800 in March when I got lucky with an early delivery and a good D800. What I can tell you from the 8500 pics I have taken so far, is that it took me a long time to get used to the D800. Reviewing and testing the settings, reading pro comments on how to get sharp pictures with any camera, learning more about work flows in PP to do edits in the best order, reading about better technique etc., etc.

What I can tell you for certain is that I get many, many more keepers now than I did on my D90 or D50. And they are very good. In retrospect ...had I done these things with the D90 I would probably have had better results with it also. But I would not have the shadow recovery, lower noise, and resolution in my macros that I have with the D800. And... I still shoot JPEG 90% of the time. Yes, pics are even better when I shoot in RAW and use NX2 to edit but I will not make that move just yet...I am still working on the other things (like birds in flight).

With the D90, I thought it was just that I wasn't a pro that I didn't get pro results...but once I sharpened my skills, the D800 made my results that much better. If you want pro results your chances are better if you use pro techniques and pro gear. I upgraded my glass, tripod, heads, flash, etc. and I am very content with my pictures now ... and I am super glad I have the D800.

Don't take this the wrong way, but if someone wants to just 'point and shoot', with out thinking about shutter speeds, ISO, DOF, WB, histogram results etc., they will not get that many predictable pro results. That is what I was doing with the D90. I thought the D90 would make the difference from the D50...but it didn't. The D800 made me learn the correct techniques so that with the D800 I do get great results!

Bottom line is .... if you want pro results you have to use pro techniques ....then the better the camera the even better photographs you will get...and be happy with.

PS: No show stoppers for me. And I would not rent a D800 for a week to test it out until after I practiced my techniques and had the whole week off with good weather.

 

[lturnerwa]

Thanks forth comments. I agree with you the camera is only part of the equation, its the person behind it and I don't mind at all on improving my technique,that is what learning is all about.

As you worked at improving your technique, what did you find was the most important ( I'm sure there is more than one)?

 

[SeanU]

I will start off by saying "this is my opinion"... to make it clear up front. I moved from a D200 to D800 in April.

motion blur
sharpness

The key to these issues is viewing/print size. When you look at the pixels, if you want perfect sharpness, you will need to use really good technique, to get it. But... how often are you printing or showing images that will show the pixel level flaws? Don't obsess about it when you don't need to (family snapshots, etc). When you go out to shoot a landscape in Yosemite... bring your tripod, cable release and technique.

focus issues ( ie technique)

I'm not sure what the issue you are getting at here, but again, the points above apply. In critical situations, use a magnifying eyepiece, live view etc to get the best results.

having to shoot at fast shutter speeds
shooting in low light

In my opinion, this is where the D800 shines... I have the camera set to Auto ISO (shutter speed set to 2x focal length, max iso 6400). With a fast prime like the 85mm 1.8G, I have been super impressed with the results. Again, I am coming from a D200 so maybe I am just used to keeping the ISO under 640.

Instead of renting the camera, try to find a local dealer that takes returns. I don't think you will be disappointed.

Sean

--
http://www.dustandrust.com

 

[Microshooter]

Thanks forth comments. I agree with you the camera is only part of the equation, its the person behind it and I don't mind at all on improving my technique,that is what learning is all about.

As you worked at improving your technique, what did you find was the most important ( I'm sure there is more than one)?

Hmmm...well it is actually the sum of the parts. Faster shutter speeds at 2x the focal length. Setting my picture controls to normal, no sharpening or contrast and doing that in PP since I have and want to take the time with my good pics. Checking my histograms by color to move to the right. (a few test shots when I have the time or when I first go out into the space). Manually setting WB when I want to be sure. Steadying my arms tight to my body,don't steadyyourself too long you may start to move. Knowing when to use AF-S vs AF-C and why. Using the lowest ISO I can use...ISO 100 is clearly so much better if I want great bokeh.

I'm sure there are more but those must be the most importane since I thought of them right away. Also the other poster was correct that for general shots it is not that important to check everything (but check the LCD after you snap the pic to make sure the colors etc., are ok). If you are taking a landscape you generally have the time, if you are doing outdoor macros of still subjects you have the time, but for birds, bugs etc. just check a few test shots when you first go out....and think about whether you want AF-s or AF-c. I always use center weighted and center focus w/recomposition.

Also I got a wireless remote for $90 that works great at a distance or as a cable release.

 

[RGT5]

If one is critical of products or Nikon, sooner or later the fan boys will give one the troll tag. D preview and others failed to obtain meaningful information at Photokina from Nikon concerning the many issues with the D800. It will take a period of time, however I am one with the opinion that this product is flawed in more ways than AF. Of course fixing AF would result in restoring credibility of this specific product. I expect to try to sell my D800e at a fair value stay tuned.

 

[sshoihet]

There always seems to be a lot of confustion about that sort of thing...

You will not get worse results than you would achieve from a "lesser" camera, they will just be noticeable because of the increased resolution and larger 100% viewing size.

Printed or viewed at the same size, with equivalent lenses and technique, the D800 image will not be worse.

What concerns me about the D800 from all that I have read is how big a pain is to use on day to day basis with issue like:

motion blur
sharpness
focus issues ( ie technique)
having to shoot at fast shutter speeds
shooting in low light

I read comments like it's a "studio camera" a "tripod camera". I would like to get feed back from some D800 user who have used it for more that an month. Any showstoppers for you.

As for the D600, I really wonder what I'm giving up and would I be sorry later, the same goes for the D800 only it's not what I give but how much pain and frustration I'm going to have.

 

[Optimus47]

Like a number of users out there I'm coming from a DX (D300) to my first FF camera. I have shot test files (in the store) with both D800 and D600 (raw) and worked with them in both LR and PS 6 so I'm aware of the size issues.

• On question you need to ask yourself: how large do you need to print?

If the answer is very, very large, then you may want to consider the D800,
over the D600.

I'm a pro-sumer, which means I don't make my living with my camera, however I expect professional results. I shoot everything, landscapes, people, travel, some action like kids playing, birds and animals, not to much sports.

• Like you, I've agonized in regards to whether a new camera would help me get better "pro" results. However, I look at some the pro's work (like Ryan Brenizer), and I see that they get excellent results with a D3 or D3s (a D700 like, 12mp sensor).

It is very humbling to see what they can do.
So I hate to sound trite, but it is the photographer, not the camera.

I realize that you don't want the camera to limit you, but if you really, really want to get the shot, you'll find a way (regardless the camera).

All the full frame cameras (Canon or Nikon) are really, really, really good. I doubt you'd find them limiting in any way. Try shooting with film. We are very spoiled.

I have 70-200 2.8 and 105 2.8 Macro and 50 1.8. I would get for now the 24-85 bu at some point will look a the 24-70 2.8.

What concerns me about the D800 from all that I have read is how big a pain is to use on day to day basis with issue like:

motion blur
sharpness
focus issues ( ie technique)
having to shoot at fast shutter speeds
shooting in low light

I read comments like it's a "studio camera" a "tripod camera". I would like to get feed back from some D800 user who have used it for more that an month. Any showstoppers for you.

• Sometimes, a camera's ease of use (regardless of tech level) does get in the way of "getting the shot". You have to decide whether it is a learning curve that you will be willing to overcome.

As for the D600, I really wonder what I'm giving up and would I be sorry later, the same goes for the D800 only it's not what I give but how much pain and frustration I'm going to have.

• If you don't know what you would be giving up, then the D800 may be overkill. As an example, David Hobby (?) of the strobist doesn't like the max sync speed of the D600. It was a deal breaker for him. You have to decide what your deal breaker is...

I'm considering renting one for a day but it about $250 a day, it might be money well spent.

• A very good idea.

 

[larrywilson]

I would recommend renting one and trying it out for a week or so. This buy then return business because a person doesn't like the camera is a bunch of bull. I rented a d800 for a week and returned it. I did not like the camera for several reasons and did not purchase the d800.

Larry

 

[Lance B]

Like a number of users out there I'm coming from a DX (D300) to my first FF camera. I have shot test files (in the store) with both D800 and D600 (raw) and worked with them in both LR and PS 6 so I'm aware of the size issues.

I'm a pro-sumer, which means I don't make my living with my camera, however I expect professional results. I shoot everything, landscapes, people, travel, some action like kids playing, birds and animals, not to much sports.

I have 70-200 2.8 and 105 2.8 Macro and 50 1.8. I would get for now the 24-85 bu at some point will look a the 24-70 2.8.

What concerns me about the D800 from all that I have read is how big a pain is to use on day to day basis with issue like:

motion blur

A non issue. It won't be any worse than from the D300 but has the potential to be much better.

sharpness

Sharpness is amazing, even right from the cam.

focus issues ( ie technique)

Coming from the D700 and D7000, the AF is faster and more accurate.

having to shoot at fast shutter speeds

Just shoot at the same shutter speeds as your D300 and you'll be perfectly fine.

shooting in low light

The low light ability is amazing , better than my D700.

I read comments like it's a "studio camera" a "tripod camera". I would like to get feed back from some D800 user who have used it for more that an month. Any showstoppers for you.

These may not be showstoppers, but they do show the ability of the D800.

Model NIKON D800 + 300 f2.8 VRII + 1.4x TCII handheld cropped about 40%
Flash Used No
Focal Length 420 mm
Exposure Time 1/250 sec
Aperture f/5.6
ISO Equivalent 1100



Model NIKON D800 + 500 f4 VR + 2x TCIII handheld , cropped about 25%
Flash Used No
Focal Length 1000 mm
Exposure Time 1/250 sec
Aperture f/13
ISO Equivalent 2200
Exposure Bias -2/3



Model NIKON D800 + 300mm f2.8 VRII handheld ISO6400
Flash Used No
Focal Length 300 mm
Exposure Time 1/125 sec
Aperture f/4
ISO Equivalent 6400



Crop:

As for the D600, I really wonder what I'm giving up and would I be sorry later, the same goes for the D800 only it's not what I give but how much pain and frustration I'm going to have.

I'm considering renting one for a day but it about $250 a day, it might be money well spent.

--
Lance B
http://www.pbase.com/lance_b

 

[Rumi Siddiqui]

I'm in the same boat in terms of deciding between the D600 and D800. Aside from good technique, what scares me is wondering if ill get a good D800 copy. I second the recommendation of purchasing it from somewhere that will give you no hassle return or renting it. It's sad that one has to wonder with that feeling of uncertainty, since every other comment is, "just got my D800 back from Nikon, and left AF is still not fixed...bla bla bla." We shouldn't be seeing comments like that this early. There's clearly a widespread issue, and there's nothing worse than buyer's remorse.

The D800 also has the green cast issue on the LCD. Hopefully the copy you get won't have these issues. Honestly, I think you'd be better served by the D600. Less money, more value for a prosumer, and best of all less issues of concern. You already have a rock star lens with that 70-200mm VRII G lens, which will make it shine.

While there's nothing wrong with improving your technique, the D800 is a demanding camera, and it seems you have to change yourself for it. As you're not a pro, but an experienced D90 user, I think the D600 will more of a seamless transition and better suited for you.

I think I'm talking myself into the D600.

 

[Ed Kalama]

Like a number of users out there I'm coming from a DX (D300) to my first FF camera. I have shot test files (in the store) with both D800 and D600 (raw) and worked with them in both LR and PS 6 so I'm aware of the size issues.

I'm a pro-sumer, which means I don't make my living with my camera, however I expect professional results. I shoot everything, landscapes, people, travel, some action like kids playing, birds and animals, not to much sports.

I'm considering renting one for a day but it about $250 a day, it might be money well spent.

You actually sound like me. Even your lenses are pretty much the same as mine. I also upgraded from a D300S to the D800E.

I agree with everything mentioned here. It took me about a week to get confident about using the D800E at the same comfort level as my old D300S. With my D800E it's simply getting the best results with proper techniques, which many times I took for granted when I was shooting with the D300s. The camera literally forced me to go back to the basics and pay attention to anything that would give the best of the best from it.

Here's something I also noticed with the D800E, my need for post processing has somehow declined because I am getting awesome quality straight from the camera. I usually use LR4 to start and then do the finishing touches on my NIK plugins. This time around I can easily get the final processed image just on LR4!

I considered the D600 briefly but knowing myself I would always be asking myself "maybe I should have gone for the D800" BTW, I didn't plan on selling my D300s but guess what, it's been in my camera bag since I received my D800E.

Go for it, if money is not a problem. Eventually you would want the top of the line! Don't waste your money renting the D800. A day with the camera will not help you decide whether you would like it or not.

--
ed
Sometimes, I SHOOT LIKE CRAZY!
http://edgarces.smugmug.com

 

[Archimago]

Just to chime in on the D800 here. I moved up from the D300 in mid-August. Had been waiting for a FF camera like the D700 with video and I am very happy what what I have here at 36MP exceeded my expectations... I was thinking/expecting something like 22-24MP all these years.

As a "consumer" as well who rarely will do formal shots (hence I don't even consider myself a 'pro'sumer), I readily admit that the D800 is more than I need. However, as a hobbyist who loves the technology, and can afford my toys, I'm having a ton of fun rediscovering my little lens collection and shooting some great stuff on my travels and portraits of the family in a way that I can treasure in the years to come. RAW files are large so make sure the computer is fast enough but given the speed of machines and HD storage price, not a big deal if one can afford a $3K camera!

As for the things you're worried about, I must say that transitioning to the D800 has been straight forward; at most a week to feel comfortable if you're quite experienced with Nikons already. Yes, it takes a steadier hand, but I didn't see any need for a tripod when used in good lighting. The improved dynamic range and lower noise at high ISO really is quite impressive compared to the D300. Pixel sharpness can be achieved even on the humble Nikkor 28-105 stopped down in decent lighting handheld (I set auto-ISO to maintain 1/100sec & faster shutter speed, ISO 6400 remains excellent) - in fact this very inexpensive lens had become by travel lens which used to be the 18-200VRII on the D300. Focus is fine and I guess I'm lucky to not have any concerns about that left focus point issue.

As usual, go to the store and have a feel for the machines. If I were to choose today, I would still go for the D800 - no question. Button layout, build quality are just top notch and seems to be a natural evolution for those who upgrade from the D300 line. The only criticisms I have is that battery life isn't as good but still much better than the D200 and I would have liked a slightly higher resolution LCD.

--

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Body: Nikon D70 --> D200 --> D300 --> D800
Canon 300D - 'beater' camera

Zooms: Tokina 12-24/4, Tamron SP 17-50/2.8, Tokina 28-70/2.8, Nikkor 80-200/2.8, Nikkor 18-200/3.5-5.6 VRII, Nikkor 28-105/f3.5-4.5

Primes: Peleng MC 8/3.5, Sigma 20/1.8, Nikkor 35/2, Nikkor 50/1.4, Nikkor 85/1.8, Tamron SP Macro 90/2.8
Just for fun: Lensbaby 2.0

Canon: 18-55/3.5-5.6, Canon 28/2.8

 

[Ilian K]

I absolutely agree with Ed..if you have the money go for it. Otherwise you will always wonder whether you did a mistake to buy D600. I came from D700 and I also found that I have more keepers and I do less processing. The handling of D800 is awsome..As concern your techniques, you know your weaknesses and you will be more careful with the pictures. I found that D800 actually improved my techniques.

Some people made comment about the need for 36 MP. I shoot at 1.2 crop which gives you smaller files in RAW.
I sold my D700 and never looked back. Vary happy.

 

[jmmec]

I'm considering renting one for a day but it about $250 a day, it might be money well spent.

If you are in the U.S., you can rent a D600 from lensrentals.com for $88.50 for 4 days (plus shipping charges).

Last Sunday I put in an order to rent a D600 and 3 lenses for 5 days. I received the order via FedEx today. The total cost, including to/from shipping, was right around $250.

I'm really liking the D600 so far, but my last Nikon was an N90S film camera.

Regards

 

[RP McMurphy]

If you are wrong or inaccurate and somebody points this out then they are a fanboy and you are still right

OK, great self delusion there - everybody else is wrong and you are right

but at the risk of you thinking me a fanboy I think you are wrong in intimating that Nikon needs to fix all the D800s

I hope Nikon dont fix anything on my d800 as i have zero problems and I suspect so do the majority but concede there were a high number of less than perfect products shipped - in Nikon's mitigation they did have a lot of people before the launch of the D800 criticising them that despite the Tsunami and floods in Thailand they should still have been quicker to market - probably people like you

Then when they had problems, perhaps form trying to be quicker to market, people like you were criticisng them again and misrepresenting the actual numbers of defective products - despite it being well know that early output always has problems - caveat emptor

I hope this episode was enough to make you switch brands because I'm fed up being told my perfect d800 is not perfect by moaners like you. if yours is defective deal with it but dont assume because yours is then so is everybody elses

A bit of perspective perhaps wouldn't go amiss, if people are telling you that you are wrong, maybe you are, just a thought

If one is critical of products or Nikon, sooner or later the fan boys will give one the troll tag. D preview and others failed to obtain meaningful information at Photokina from Nikon concerning the many issues with the D800. It will take a period of time, however I am one with the opinion that this product is flawed in more ways than AF. Of course fixing AF would result in restoring credibility of this specific product. I expect to try to sell my D800e at a fair value stay tuned.

 

[Onetrack97]

I've used my D800 in the studio and on-location for multiple portrait shoots. All on camera stands or tripods. No issues, awesome performance.

I've only used it for one outdoor event.

I liked the performance, no issues with sharpness, focus, etc. I liked the capability to shoot in crop mode and still get high resolution photos.

I didn't like the file sizes since I shot a lot more than in a portrait session.

If you're going to use it for weddings, etc., use USB 3.0 interfaces and get the fastest computer with RAID0 and also consider one RAID0 with solid state drive.

--
Scott

 

[RP McMurphy]

As others have pointed out it is important to consider the quality you get at the respective physical size and not by viewing at 100% on the monitor

Use the same settings as a 12mp and view at the same size as 12mp you get = or > results in each and every way including noise and camera shake

It's only when you want to blow up the picture to the max that you will see results of less than perfect technique

If you computer screen prevented you from zooming in further than you would zoom in with the D700 there would be no confusion and no complaints

it's about the picture and viewing sizes only - you do not look at pixels you look at the output from the entire sensor

 

[Astrophotographer 10]

motion blur

Shoot at 2X normal shutter speed. Easy to do as high ISO performance is one of the best out there.

sharpness

Unparalleled by any other DSLR. Its simply the best.

focus issues ( ie technique)

It has a superb autofocusing unit. There have been some defective units and the question should really be are the new ones all ok now? Mine is but lots here have had bad AF units requiring a fix by Nikon.

having to shoot at fast shutter speeds

Thats not a problem. Shutter goes to 1/8000th of a sec and high ISO is fabulous as is auto ISO feature.

shooting in low light

Superb. The best camera I have ever used for this. I take nightscape shots and ISO6400 is very useable. I'd buy the camera on this strength alone.

I have a D800E.

Absolutely wonderful camera.

Greg.

 

[RP McMurphy]

This is the problem many are having and I disagree it is 'necessary' to use 2 x 1/focal length

I agree, that the higher the shutter speed the sharper you're going to have your image

But many of the new entrants are concerned that they will have a different regime when buying D800 and I think it is an important distinction to make that if you output the same size as you did with your 12mp sensor then using the same settings will result in the same or better output

If you want to output at 3x the 12mp sensor then you will need extra discipline, but as said below the iso is so good that you can achieve the higher shutter speed quite easily

Use it as a D700 and you can keep every thing the same but if you want to benefit from the upgrade you also need to upgrade your discipine

motion blur

Shoot at 2X normal shutter speed. Easy to do as high ISO performance is one of the best out there.

sharpness

Unparalleled by any other DSLR. Its simply the best.

focus issues ( ie technique)

It has a superb autofocusing unit. There have been some defective units and the question should really be are the new ones all ok now? Mine is but lots here have had bad AF units requiring a fix by Nikon.

having to shoot at fast shutter speeds

Thats not a problem. Shutter goes to 1/8000th of a sec and high ISO is fabulous as is auto ISO feature.

shooting in low light

Superb. The best camera I have ever used for this. I take nightscape shots and ISO6400 is very useable. I'd buy the camera on this strength alone.

I have a D800E.

Absolutely wonderful camera.

Greg.