D750 banding - questions

[joseba4242]

After wading through tons of posts of the subject, dutifully occupying me on the tube journey to work, I still have some questions.

1. What is the issue? Is is that a frame which shouldn't have flare-like light does have it? Or is it that a frame that has legitimate flare shows a dark, sharply-defined band at top (or more rarely bottom) of the frame?
2. Has anyone made a comparison under controlled conditions with other bodies (ie. on tripod, only movement allowed vertical to get the right angle, fixed light source)? If so is the D750 more or less or similarly susceptible to exhibiting that particular situation?
3. In that comparison with a "good" camera, is the "good" camera showing no flare or is it showing consistent whole-picture flare?

These questions seem to me unanswered despite hundreds of posts (admittedly not all of which I've read). What I see as established is: That the particular effect (frame with lots of flare like light and sharply defined darker band on top or bottom) has been reproduced in many other cameras (Leica, Nikon F, D810, Canon, Fuiji, ...). This by itself doesn't answer though whether there is a D750 issue or not.

 

[Timur Born]

It is that an image that should have flare shows a distinctive horizontal band where the flare is blocked. This happens with light-sources from above or below, with or without lens. Some lenses seem to make it less prone to happen with light from above, though. The reason why it seems less likely from below would just be that light usually comes from above.

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[Tharaphita]

In short. If you try on purpose to make flare filled photos, then on at very specific light source angle, with some lenses, some of the flare will be cut off by some edge close to sensor and it wont reach sensor.

How can this be called banding? I dont understand?

Length of the hood also comes to play. Longer hood tend to cut off flare reaching mirror box at all.

Angle of lightsource for this to work is very slightly above the frame and must be pointed towards camera and the light beam must hit on bottom of the mirror box directly from.

Some lenses make the effect to be more pronounced then others. From my idea, lens must be short and wide enough and with short hood for light to travel

As for IRL. I have taken a lot of shots(over 7k) and it haven't appeared on any of my photos regardless of lightning. But if i specially try to reproduce it i can easily, specially with primes.

 

[glo]

Welcome to the forum.

I have a 750 and have no issues at all with it, works as advertised. I have other pro bodies as well and have not experienced the issues described. When you shoot against bright light in the background without a hood, you're challenging yourself regardless of the camera body you're holding.

My advice is to buy the camera, shoot it the way you normally shoot and if you like it, keep it. If you don't like it, sell it. Reading too much about other people's experiences reaches a point of diminishing return.

glo

 

[vazquezji]

I wouldn't say this is normal...



















(Images taken from the Nikon spanish forum)

 

[chuxter]

After wading through tons of posts of the subject, dutifully occupying me on the tube journey to work, I still have some questions.

1. What is the issue? Is is that a frame which shouldn't have flare-like light does have it? Or is it that a frame that has legitimate flare shows a dark, sharply-defined band at top (or more rarely bottom) of the frame?
2. Has anyone made a comparison under controlled conditions with other bodies (ie. on tripod, only movement allowed vertical to get the right angle, fixed light source)? If so is the D750 more or less or similarly susceptible to exhibiting that particular situation?
3. In that comparison with a "good" camera, is the "good" camera showing no flare or is it showing consistent whole-picture flare?

These questions seem to me unanswered despite hundreds of posts (admittedly not all of which I've read). What I see as established is: That the particular effect (frame with lots of flare like light and sharply defined darker band on top or bottom) has been reproduced in many other cameras (Leica, Nikon F, D810, Canon, Fuiji, ...). This by itself doesn't answer though whether there is a D750 issue or not.

1. The haze [it's not proper to call it "flare] can be produced on any camera. Many photographers use this as a "tool" to make "artsy" photos. On most cameras, there are dark artifacts in the haze at VERY specific angles. Photographers who intentionally produce haze don't want it to be irregular. THAT is the issue.
2. There are very few people on DPR who know what "controlled conditions" means. Anecdotal evidence indicates that the D750 produces more noticeable dark bands in the haze across the top.
3. Again, ALL cameras will show haze. "Good" cameras will show a smooth, uniform haze.

 

[primeshooter]

After wading through tons of posts of the subject, dutifully occupying me on the tube journey to work, I still have some questions.

1. What is the issue? Is is that a frame which shouldn't have flare-like light does have it? Or is it that a frame that has legitimate flare shows a dark, sharply-defined band at top (or more rarely bottom) of the frame?
2. Has anyone made a comparison under controlled conditions with other bodies (ie. on tripod, only movement allowed vertical to get the right angle, fixed light source)? If so is the D750 more or less or similarly susceptible to exhibiting that particular situation?
3. In that comparison with a "good" camera, is the "good" camera showing no flare or is it showing consistent whole-picture flare?

These questions seem to me unanswered despite hundreds of posts (admittedly not all of which I've read). What I see as established is: That the particular effect (frame with lots of flare like light and sharply defined darker band on top or bottom) has been reproduced in many other cameras (Leica, Nikon F, D810, Canon, Fuiji, ...). This by itself doesn't answer though whether there is a D750 issue or not.

Canon have snuck some of their sensors into the D750 because they got jealous over Sony's rep for high DR beautiful tonality and colour, this was to get back at them. Take that nikon > here is the banding!

 

[faocisco]

I wouldn't say this is normal...









(Images taken from the Nikon spanish forum)

From the dozens of photos I've seen posted showing the issue,only one(from flikr wedding photographer) isn't "trash" to begin !

So,it seems that the D750 is doing the so called photographers a "favor".



--
Francisco

 

[LedFox]

The flare blockage is also present on the Leica M Typ 240

Details below:

http://diglloyd.com/blog/2013/20130422_1-LeicaM240-50f2AA-flare.html

 

[AABBCC123]

I've just gone through the Amazon DPR D750 "glowing review" with nothing but praise for the low light performance, straight into the sun performance and fantastic video performance etc etc etc.

Then I start looking in earnest at the real life comments from people who own and use the camera every day and find a completely different story with banding, movement at the edges of the video, absolutely appalling flare / reflections in photographs, terrible VR on lenses and that old favourite that put me off the D7100, a poor buffer. In the review we see them taking shots right into the sun with amazing results then we see real life shots in the street and they are awful seemingly incapable of even catching a moving bus on a sunny day!

I've just gone from WOW to AAWWW................. I just wonder if it can really be that bad?

 

[BartyLobethal]

[No message]

 

[Nexu1]

If you shoot a ton of photos like those posted by vazquezji then I'd proceed with caution (actually I'd just recommend a different camera). Note- the images show pretty extreme examples of flare where pretty much all the photos would be deleted anyways, the 1" strip at the top is the problem, the 90% of the photo is not, that flare is normal to that lens and will look that way with any other lens. The photographer who took those pictures was almost certainly trying to find a problem rather than take a good picture.

The problem has been replicated with a bunch of different cameras, D610, D700, D7000, Canon 6d, Canon 5DM2, etc...

I've got a couple thousand images on my 750, have found the "problem" zero times, and don't think this issue will be an issue at all. I don't think it'll effect even 0.5% of my photos and I do like to shoot backlit images, but not flare robbed washed out images. Here is a 110 shot test I did recently: http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3759567

In a nutshell: if heavily flared & washed out images is your thing, you shoot that a ton, I'd look elsewhere. If you randomly run into flare, every once in a while, I wouldn't worry one iota about it (good chance you'll never, ever see the issue in normal shooting).

 

[greenpoe]

Generally, move or tilt the camera a little, away from the light source to get rid of the flare, or towards the light to get the usual flare. If you don't use live view and take the photo thru the view finder, normally what we all do, you may not see the issue until you get home. However, the only photo actually ruined is the one where the flare would have added something to the image.

Whether this should matter to you depends on how, when, and where you take photos, how you feel about buying an expensive camera that has one more limitation, etc. My own point of view, just knowing about this issue is enough for me to know what to avoid when I want a flare effect. It is what it is, YMMV

 

[sandy b]

Must be a real dog.

The vast majority of users seem to love it, from what I have read.

 

[primeshooter]

I wouldn't say this is normal...









(Images taken from the Nikon spanish forum)

From the dozens of photos I've seen posted showing the issue,only one(from flikr wedding photographer) isn't "trash" to begin !

So,it seems that the D750 is doing the so called photographers a "favor".

--
Francisco

Nikon seem intent on flushing their reputation down the toilet these days, another camera with a serious / stupid flaw. I'd be irate if I bought a new camera and saw this appearing in back lit shots!

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[jtan163]

Be nice if Niko could offer that as an option over the whole sensor.
You know reduce or eliminate lens flare....



Be interesting to see what happens if you take the picture upside down.

I'm wondering if this is an aa/OLPF filter coating or microlens related matter.

I wouldn't say this is normal...









(Images taken from the Nikon spanish forum)

From the dozens of photos I've seen posted showing the issue,only one(from flikr wedding photographer) isn't "trash" to begin !

So,it seems that the D750 is doing the so called photographers a "favor".

--
Francisco

--

jtan163

Explore jtan163’s 443 photos on Flickr!

www.flickr.com

http://www.jtpix.com.au

 

[Timur Born]

Be interesting to see what happens if you take the picture upside down.
I'm wondering if this is an aa/OLPF filter coating or microlens related matter.

Happens from both bottom and top side flare, just with a slightly different reflection/blockage pattern. I'd say from bottom it's even worse, aka easier to happen.

 

[mrjpack]

Generally, move or tilt the camera a little, away from the light source to get rid of the flare, or towards the light to get the usual flare. If you don't use live view and take the photo thru the view finder, normally what we all do, you may not see the issue until you get home. However, the only photo actually ruined is the one where the flare would have added something to the image.

Whether this should matter to you depends on how, when, and where you take photos, how you feel about buying an expensive camera that has one more limitation, etc. My own point of view, just knowing about this issue is enough for me to know what to avoid when I want a flare effect. It is what it is, YMMV

Thousands of shots, none have this issue, but I can easily provoke I with my 50 1.8. Seems to m if I was try trying to induce flare I would shoot a little wider & crop it out in the rare instance it did occur. I have seen very few shots that were worth keeping that had this effect, even those could have been saved if cropped. Bottom line if you are a person who likes to induce flare, this is not the camera for you.

Jim

 

[greenpoe]

I've gotten a photo with flare not blocked at the top. If you are a person who likes to put flare in your image you have to be aware of this issue with the D750. Aware of this issue you can work around it. A circular polarizing filter will also fix the issue. I recommend a CP filter for taking photos in bright sunlight.

Put another way: It's important that you know about this issue but once you know about it it's not important.


I saw the blocked flare in another photo I took and tilted the camera a little to get this one.

 

[joseba4242]

Thanks to everyone who replied. So in short the issue is absence of expected "flare/haze" light in the dark band.

In that case I don't understand is why these photos were supposedly "ruined"? Surely you can add the missing flare/haze on the top of the picture in PS? It may be annoying and time consuming but that's different from ruined.

Also people were talking a lot about this being an issue of "internal reflection". If the issue is less light then expected, how could this possibly be caused by an internal reflection (which would result in more light than expected)?