D70 Review is out, and.......

[cnwrail]

Here are some quotes from Phil's review:

"a camera which is a significant step ahead of the EOS 300D in terms of build quality and feature set and a match, and in some instances better from an image quality point of view."

"Superb value for money, better still than the EOS 300D (Digital Rebel)"

Regarding the kit lens, he said "noticeably heavier and better built than Canon's 18 - 55 mm lens bundled with the EOS 300D (Digital Rebel)."

"The first thing you notice is the difference in color balance between the two cameras, in this respect the D70 is more accurate, the EOS 300D's image looking warmer than it did in real life, the D70's greys are almost perfectly grey. The D70's colors also look slightly more saturated than the 300D. For absolute resolution it's very close, although there are definitely some areas of the image where the D70 has resolved more detail (and appears sharper) than the EOS 300D."

"One notable difference is that the D70's sharpening algorithm appears to be better than that of the EOS 300D, there are almost no visible sharpening halos in the D70 image, there are some in the EOS 300D image."

"At ISO 1600 the 300D's noise pattern is quite large and blotchy, the D70 with much finer more granular noise."

"considering the image resolution difference I would say that the D70 is slightly sharper and is resolving slightly more detail per pixel than the EOS 300D. It also has a cleaner sharpening algorithm (as mentioned on the previous page) which leads to a cleaner image with fewer halo type artifacts."

"the D70's images are more preferable because its noise is more even throughout the color channels and appears as monochromatic 'grain' rather than the color blotches seen in the EOS 300D image (which is also more difficult to remove later). Kudos to Nikon then."

"Shooting as RAW delivers noticeable improvements to both cameras images. Both images appear more detailed and sharper with less artifacts. The D70 opens up a lead here showing both good sharpness and almost no detectable halo sharpening artifacts."

Looks like the Rebel just got whacked, big time!!! The D70 has a superior feature set AND superior image quality. Best of all, there's nothing Dumbed-Down about it!

 

[Airborne]

Here are some quotes from Phil's review:

"a camera which is a significant step ahead of the EOS 300D in
terms of build quality and feature set and a match, and in some
instances better from an image quality point of view."

"Superb value for money, better still than the EOS 300D (Digital
Rebel)"

Regarding the kit lens, he said "noticeably heavier and better
built than Canon's 18 - 55 mm lens bundled with the EOS 300D
(Digital Rebel)."

"The first thing you notice is the difference in color balance
between the two cameras, in this respect the D70 is more accurate,
the EOS 300D's image looking warmer than it did in real life, the
D70's greys are almost perfectly grey. The D70's colors also look
slightly more saturated than the 300D. For absolute resolution it's
very close, although there are definitely some areas of the image
where the D70 has resolved more detail (and appears sharper) than
the EOS 300D."

"One notable difference is that the D70's sharpening algorithm
appears to be better than that of the EOS 300D, there are almost no
visible sharpening halos in the D70 image, there are some in the
EOS 300D image."

"At ISO 1600 the 300D's noise pattern is quite large and blotchy,
the D70 with much finer more granular noise."

"considering the image resolution difference I would say that the
D70 is slightly sharper and is resolving slightly more detail per
pixel than the EOS 300D. It also has a cleaner sharpening algorithm
(as mentioned on the previous page) which leads to a cleaner image
with fewer halo type artifacts."

"the D70's images are more preferable because its noise is more
even throughout the color channels and appears as monochromatic
'grain' rather than the color blotches seen in the EOS 300D image
(which is also more difficult to remove later). Kudos to Nikon
then."

"Shooting as RAW delivers noticeable improvements to both cameras
images. Both images appear more detailed and sharper with less
artifacts. The D70 opens up a lead here showing both good sharpness
and almost no detectable halo sharpening artifacts."

Looks like the Rebel just got whacked, big time!!! The D70 has a
superior feature set AND superior image quality. Best of all,
there's nothing Dumbed-Down about it!

 

[sabrewolf]

hmmm if you have an item with 10 good points and 20 bad points about it, wouldn't it look good if you post all the good things about it in 1 page and ignores the rest?

 

[Don Jagoe]

This trolling was all so predictable. Perhaps you forget that many of us have been having fun taking actual pictures since September with the Rebel, and most have years of practice to be able to maximize the capabilities there. This comparison is technically interesting, and is a good thing for all of us, as Canon will now spend a little more R&D to ensure that they top Nikon for Photokina. And on and on. Consumers benefit!

Don
--
Using the camera to find and free the beauty all around us...

 

[Max Fun]

As many people have pointed out, even in the D70 forum, the pictures speak for themselves. Unless Phil labelled the photos incorrectly, the 300D photos do seem to be sharper or more detailed than the D70. Plus the fact that it as a more sensitive sensor, plus it has less noise even at Parameter 1, just means that the 300D has an image quality edge.

Most of us are puzzled at what Phil said, so just judge the photos yourself.

Here are some quotes from Phil's review:

"a camera which is a significant step ahead of the EOS 300D in
terms of build quality and feature set and a match, and in some
instances better from an image quality point of view."

"Superb value for money, better still than the EOS 300D (Digital
Rebel)"

Regarding the kit lens, he said "noticeably heavier and better
built than Canon's 18 - 55 mm lens bundled with the EOS 300D
(Digital Rebel)."

"The first thing you notice is the difference in color balance
between the two cameras, in this respect the D70 is more accurate,
the EOS 300D's image looking warmer than it did in real life, the
D70's greys are almost perfectly grey. The D70's colors also look
slightly more saturated than the 300D. For absolute resolution it's
very close, although there are definitely some areas of the image
where the D70 has resolved more detail (and appears sharper) than
the EOS 300D."

"One notable difference is that the D70's sharpening algorithm
appears to be better than that of the EOS 300D, there are almost no
visible sharpening halos in the D70 image, there are some in the
EOS 300D image."

"At ISO 1600 the 300D's noise pattern is quite large and blotchy,
the D70 with much finer more granular noise."

"considering the image resolution difference I would say that the
D70 is slightly sharper and is resolving slightly more detail per
pixel than the EOS 300D. It also has a cleaner sharpening algorithm
(as mentioned on the previous page) which leads to a cleaner image
with fewer halo type artifacts."

"the D70's images are more preferable because its noise is more
even throughout the color channels and appears as monochromatic
'grain' rather than the color blotches seen in the EOS 300D image
(which is also more difficult to remove later). Kudos to Nikon
then."

"Shooting as RAW delivers noticeable improvements to both cameras
images. Both images appear more detailed and sharper with less
artifacts. The D70 opens up a lead here showing both good sharpness
and almost no detectable halo sharpening artifacts."

Looks like the Rebel just got whacked, big time!!! The D70 has a
superior feature set AND superior image quality. Best of all,
there's nothing Dumbed-Down about it!

--
The Secret to Life is... Calcium!!
http://max-fun.fotopic.net
http://www.pbase.com/supperman

 

[Forrest41926]

Here are some quotes from Phil's review:

Couldn't even come up with his own criticism.

 

[philbarrett]

Here are some quotes from Phil's review:

"a camera which is a significant step ahead of the EOS 300D in
terms of build quality and feature set and a match, and in some
instances better from an image quality point of view."

"Superb value for money, better still than the EOS 300D (Digital
Rebel)"

Regarding the kit lens, he said "noticeably heavier and better
built than Canon's 18 - 55 mm lens bundled with the EOS 300D
(Digital Rebel)."

"The first thing you notice is the difference in color balance
between the two cameras, in this respect the D70 is more accurate,
the EOS 300D's image looking warmer than it did in real life, the
D70's greys are almost perfectly grey. The D70's colors also look
slightly more saturated than the 300D. For absolute resolution it's
very close, although there are definitely some areas of the image
where the D70 has resolved more detail (and appears sharper) than
the EOS 300D."

"One notable difference is that the D70's sharpening algorithm
appears to be better than that of the EOS 300D, there are almost no
visible sharpening halos in the D70 image, there are some in the
EOS 300D image."

"At ISO 1600 the 300D's noise pattern is quite large and blotchy,
the D70 with much finer more granular noise."

"considering the image resolution difference I would say that the
D70 is slightly sharper and is resolving slightly more detail per
pixel than the EOS 300D. It also has a cleaner sharpening algorithm
(as mentioned on the previous page) which leads to a cleaner image
with fewer halo type artifacts."

"the D70's images are more preferable because its noise is more
even throughout the color channels and appears as monochromatic
'grain' rather than the color blotches seen in the EOS 300D image
(which is also more difficult to remove later). Kudos to Nikon
then."

"Shooting as RAW delivers noticeable improvements to both cameras
images. Both images appear more detailed and sharper with less
artifacts. The D70 opens up a lead here showing both good sharpness
and almost no detectable halo sharpening artifacts."

Looks like the Rebel just got whacked, big time!!! The D70 has a
superior feature set AND superior image quality. Best of all,
there's nothing Dumbed-Down about it!

 

[Stan]

....would be soft, comfortable, and have no sharp edges. Like a Canon? (tongue in cheek)

Stan

 

[Scott M Miller]

Here are some quotes from Phil's review:

"a camera which is a significant step ahead of the EOS 300D in
terms of build quality and feature set and a match, and in some
instances better from an image quality point of view."

"Superb value for money, better still than the EOS 300D (Digital
Rebel)"

Regarding the kit lens, he said "noticeably heavier and better
built than Canon's 18 - 55 mm lens bundled with the EOS 300D
(Digital Rebel)."

"The first thing you notice is the difference in color balance
between the two cameras, in this respect the D70 is more accurate,
the EOS 300D's image looking warmer than it did in real life, the
D70's greys are almost perfectly grey. The D70's colors also look
slightly more saturated than the 300D. For absolute resolution it's
very close, although there are definitely some areas of the image
where the D70 has resolved more detail (and appears sharper) than
the EOS 300D."

"One notable difference is that the D70's sharpening algorithm
appears to be better than that of the EOS 300D, there are almost no
visible sharpening halos in the D70 image, there are some in the
EOS 300D image."

"At ISO 1600 the 300D's noise pattern is quite large and blotchy,
the D70 with much finer more granular noise."

"considering the image resolution difference I would say that the
D70 is slightly sharper and is resolving slightly more detail per
pixel than the EOS 300D. It also has a cleaner sharpening algorithm
(as mentioned on the previous page) which leads to a cleaner image
with fewer halo type artifacts."

"the D70's images are more preferable because its noise is more
even throughout the color channels and appears as monochromatic
'grain' rather than the color blotches seen in the EOS 300D image
(which is also more difficult to remove later). Kudos to Nikon
then."

"Shooting as RAW delivers noticeable improvements to both cameras
images. Both images appear more detailed and sharper with less
artifacts. The D70 opens up a lead here showing both good sharpness
and almost no detectable halo sharpening artifacts."

Looks like the Rebel just got whacked, big time!!! The D70 has a
superior feature set AND superior image quality. Best of all,
there's nothing Dumbed-Down about it!

--
Having Fun,
Scott
http://www.pbase.com/millersm
'Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.'

 

[Forrest41926]

....would be soft, comfortable, and have no sharp edges. Like a
Canon? (tongue in cheek)

... has a bunch of blind nuts, just like the Nikorp trolls who can't find their way to the D70 forum. ( Toungue equally in cheek. )

 

[Airborne]

Now Stan, you are medaling.

....would be soft, comfortable, and have no sharp edges. Like a
Canon? (tongue in cheek)

Stan

 

[FKG]

Here are some quotes from Phil's review:

"a camera which is a significant step ahead of the EOS 300D in
terms of build quality and feature set and a match, and in some
instances better from an image quality point of view."

"Superb value for money, better still than the EOS 300D (Digital
Rebel)"

Regarding the kit lens, he said "noticeably heavier and better
built than Canon's 18 - 55 mm lens bundled with the EOS 300D
(Digital Rebel)."

"The first thing you notice is the difference in color balance
between the two cameras, in this respect the D70 is more accurate,
the EOS 300D's image looking warmer than it did in real life, the
D70's greys are almost perfectly grey. The D70's colors also look
slightly more saturated than the 300D. For absolute resolution it's
very close, although there are definitely some areas of the image
where the D70 has resolved more detail (and appears sharper) than
the EOS 300D."

"One notable difference is that the D70's sharpening algorithm
appears to be better than that of the EOS 300D, there are almost no
visible sharpening halos in the D70 image, there are some in the
EOS 300D image."

"At ISO 1600 the 300D's noise pattern is quite large and blotchy,
the D70 with much finer more granular noise."

"considering the image resolution difference I would say that the
D70 is slightly sharper and is resolving slightly more detail per
pixel than the EOS 300D. It also has a cleaner sharpening algorithm
(as mentioned on the previous page) which leads to a cleaner image
with fewer halo type artifacts."

"the D70's images are more preferable because its noise is more
even throughout the color channels and appears as monochromatic
'grain' rather than the color blotches seen in the EOS 300D image
(which is also more difficult to remove later). Kudos to Nikon
then."

"Shooting as RAW delivers noticeable improvements to both cameras
images. Both images appear more detailed and sharper with less
artifacts. The D70 opens up a lead here showing both good sharpness
and almost no detectable halo sharpening artifacts."

Looks like the Rebel just got whacked, big time!!! The D70 has a
superior feature set AND superior image quality. Best of all,
there's nothing Dumbed-Down about it!

Well my friend, we can read Phils review for ourselves, and what you are sadly saying is if we buy a D70 we will have bought the perfect machine and to use your phrase I beleive you are the one that is Dumbed- Down
Please go and put you stolen comments on Phils review on the Nikon forums

 

[Agent]

This topic is his first post. Do I see a BAN comming?

 

[misha]

At least Stan was/is a 300D owner.
--
Misha

 

[Forrest41926]

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1034&message=8284896

 

[michaelthorne]

Funny how if you go to the nikond70 forum you will see posts of a different nature. Lots of complaints. Ive only read maybe about 2-3 major complaints with the canon300d.
I love the 300d and I will continue to use it untill it drops dead.

Here are some quotes from Phil's review:

"a camera which is a significant step ahead of the EOS 300D in
terms of build quality and feature set and a match, and in some
instances better from an image quality point of view."

"Superb value for money, better still than the EOS 300D (Digital
Rebel)"

Regarding the kit lens, he said "noticeably heavier and better
built than Canon's 18 - 55 mm lens bundled with the EOS 300D
(Digital Rebel)."

"The first thing you notice is the difference in color balance
between the two cameras, in this respect the D70 is more accurate,
the EOS 300D's image looking warmer than it did in real life, the
D70's greys are almost perfectly grey. The D70's colors also look
slightly more saturated than the 300D. For absolute resolution it's
very close, although there are definitely some areas of the image
where the D70 has resolved more detail (and appears sharper) than
the EOS 300D."

"One notable difference is that the D70's sharpening algorithm
appears to be better than that of the EOS 300D, there are almost no
visible sharpening halos in the D70 image, there are some in the
EOS 300D image."

"At ISO 1600 the 300D's noise pattern is quite large and blotchy,
the D70 with much finer more granular noise."

"considering the image resolution difference I would say that the
D70 is slightly sharper and is resolving slightly more detail per
pixel than the EOS 300D. It also has a cleaner sharpening algorithm
(as mentioned on the previous page) which leads to a cleaner image
with fewer halo type artifacts."

"the D70's images are more preferable because its noise is more
even throughout the color channels and appears as monochromatic
'grain' rather than the color blotches seen in the EOS 300D image
(which is also more difficult to remove later). Kudos to Nikon
then."

"Shooting as RAW delivers noticeable improvements to both cameras
images. Both images appear more detailed and sharper with less
artifacts. The D70 opens up a lead here showing both good sharpness
and almost no detectable halo sharpening artifacts."

Looks like the Rebel just got whacked, big time!!! The D70 has a
superior feature set AND superior image quality. Best of all,
there's nothing Dumbed-Down about it!

 

[joereich3]

My question is....how much of the difference (picture quality, resolution, etc) be related to the lens vs. the camera itself????

 

[Hans Keesom]

Happy :

Of course i am happy Phill gives the D70 a highly recommended.
Also I am happy the camera handles in a way that fit my needs.

My needs are : a camera that can be used like a P&S but also like a 'professional' camera where I can set everything by hand to do special things. This is because I seriously consider growing to a pro-level.

Not happy :
There are some considerations.

Moire is there. Fortunately there are some things that can be done. First off all one can turn down the sharpness and contrast I believe (still have to check out that tip for myself.

I will redo the test I did on http://hanskeesom.xs4all.nl/foto-event.nl/D70/20040330HuntingForMoire/index.htm to see whether it works.

Also software like Bible seems to remove very well every problem, certainly when shooting in RAW.

All together, I am still happy.

You should be too. You still have the great camera you bought months ago. Go out and enjoy yourself.

And remember, in a few months time there will be another camera that will be cheaper and better etc than the D70. At that moment, I will still wear the same smile on my face. Because it's not about the latest gadget, it about enjoying yourself shooting precious moments and keeping them forever.

Cheers and good luck to you all.

Here are some quotes from Phil's review:

"a camera which is a significant step ahead of the EOS 300D in
terms of build quality and feature set and a match, and in some
instances better from an image quality point of view."

"Superb value for money, better still than the EOS 300D (Digital
Rebel)"

Regarding the kit lens, he said "noticeably heavier and better
built than Canon's 18 - 55 mm lens bundled with the EOS 300D
(Digital Rebel)."

"The first thing you notice is the difference in color balance
between the two cameras, in this respect the D70 is more accurate,
the EOS 300D's image looking warmer than it did in real life, the
D70's greys are almost perfectly grey. The D70's colors also look
slightly more saturated than the 300D. For absolute resolution it's
very close, although there are definitely some areas of the image
where the D70 has resolved more detail (and appears sharper) than
the EOS 300D."

"One notable difference is that the D70's sharpening algorithm
appears to be better than that of the EOS 300D, there are almost no
visible sharpening halos in the D70 image, there are some in the
EOS 300D image."

"At ISO 1600 the 300D's noise pattern is quite large and blotchy,
the D70 with much finer more granular noise."

"considering the image resolution difference I would say that the
D70 is slightly sharper and is resolving slightly more detail per
pixel than the EOS 300D. It also has a cleaner sharpening algorithm
(as mentioned on the previous page) which leads to a cleaner image
with fewer halo type artifacts."

"the D70's images are more preferable because its noise is more
even throughout the color channels and appears as monochromatic
'grain' rather than the color blotches seen in the EOS 300D image
(which is also more difficult to remove later). Kudos to Nikon
then."

"Shooting as RAW delivers noticeable improvements to both cameras
images. Both images appear more detailed and sharper with less
artifacts. The D70 opens up a lead here showing both good sharpness
and almost no detectable halo sharpening artifacts."

Looks like the Rebel just got whacked, big time!!! The D70 has a
superior feature set AND superior image quality. Best of all,
there's nothing Dumbed-Down about it!

 

[dwalby]

Looks like the Rebel just got whacked, big time!!! The D70 has a
superior feature set AND superior image quality. Best of all,
there's nothing Dumbed-Down about it!

I'm not saying the 300D is a better camera than the D70, or vice versa, because the differences (to me) are extremely minor. If I knew how often the dreaded moire problem really happened, and it was negligable, then I'd say the D70 is a slightly better camera than the 300D. If I had to put up with frequent moire just to get the few functional advantages of the D70 I'd have to choose the 300D instead.

Here are some quotes from Phil's review:

"a camera which is a significant step ahead of the EOS 300D in
terms of build quality and feature set and a match, and in some
instances better from an image quality point of view."

The D70 is clearly ahead in build quality, is anybody surprised with that?? Maybe I'm just a simple photographer because the D70 feature set advantages don't get me all that excited, and I think its really a stretch to call them significant.

"Superb value for money, better still than the EOS 300D (Digital
Rebel)"

The D70 is a great value. If you already have Canon glass its not that great a value.

Regarding the kit lens, he said "noticeably heavier and better
built than Canon's 18 - 55 mm lens bundled with the EOS 300D
(Digital Rebel)."

This is the one that cracks me up every time I've read it over the past few weeks. Duh, there's a better lens out there than my $100 18-55mm, who'da thunk it. A 300D body with a $400 lens, $1299 total like the D70, can hold its own just fine against the D70.

"The first thing you notice is the difference in color balance
between the two cameras, in this respect the D70 is more accurate,
the EOS 300D's image looking warmer than it did in real life, the
D70's greys are almost perfectly grey. The D70's colors also look
slightly more saturated than the 300D. For absolute resolution it's
very close, although there are definitely some areas of the image
where the D70 has resolved more detail (and appears sharper) than
the EOS 300D."

see comment below regarding JPEG image comparison.

"One notable difference is that the D70's sharpening algorithm
appears to be better than that of the EOS 300D, there are almost no
visible sharpening halos in the D70 image, there are some in the
EOS 300D image."

see comment below regarding JPEG image comparison.

"At ISO 1600 the 300D's noise pattern is quite large and blotchy,
the D70 with much finer more granular noise."

This was true, but how often does anybody really use ISO1600?? The fact that the Rebel had lower noise at ISO200, and also has the option of ISO100 is at least as noteworthy as the comparison at 1600.

"considering the image resolution difference I would say that the
D70 is slightly sharper and is resolving slightly more detail per
pixel than the EOS 300D. It also has a cleaner sharpening algorithm
(as mentioned on the previous page) which leads to a cleaner image
with fewer halo type artifacts."

Funny thing about the JPEG test images, I liked the 300D ones better, they looked sharper to me. A few others have said the same thing, even asking if they were mis-labeled because Phil's text suggests the opposite of what the images show. I may not be a pro photographer, but I have 20/20 vision and the Canon images looked just a bit sharper, not dramatically different, but detectable.

"the D70's images are more preferable because its noise is more
even throughout the color channels and appears as monochromatic
'grain' rather than the color blotches seen in the EOS 300D image
(which is also more difficult to remove later). Kudos to Nikon
then."

This was another ISO1600 comparison comment. True, but ISO1600 performance is really not that important.

"Shooting as RAW delivers noticeable improvements to both cameras
images. Both images appear more detailed and sharper with less
artifacts. The D70 opens up a lead here showing both good sharpness
and almost no detectable halo sharpening artifacts."

This was noticable, I think the D70 sharpness improved even more than the Rebel in RAW mode.

 

[Archermoo]

....would be soft, comfortable, and have no sharp edges. Like a
Canon? (tongue in cheek)

Stan

Just remember, not everyone takes pics as soft/out of focus as you with your 300D. Phil certainly doesn't.

--
Gary