D70 - How to handle the high ISO noise?

[micra]

I often hear people talk about the high level of noise on D70 at high ISO and so on. It's well known, that there are more noise in the pictures from D70 compared to some other DSLR's (D50, Canon ...)

The same people are also talking about that high ISO noise mainly as a result of in-camera NR (or lack of it) for jpeg, and many are talking about shooting RAW (NEF) and apply NR in PP, and there is no problem with D70.

I agree, but what do people mean by: "....shooting RAW (NEF) and apply NR in PP...."?

Where do I apply NR when the NR in NC 4.4 is poor and I normally use Neat Image as a Photoshop 7 plugin?

I can't handle RAW in PS 7, or can I?

I have to save the NEF-file in ex. JPEG, and then do the NR in PS 7/Neat Image. Then the RAW/NEF-advance for NR is gone, correct?

How is your NR workflow and how do you use the NR for best result?

--
Micra
http://www.pbase.com/ibolesen

 

[Keith Reeder]

Frankly I've never had any real concerns about D70 noise.

I've been delighted with the detail I've captured (bird pictures) in properly exposed pictures at 1000+ ISO (converted from NEF in NC 4.4), and the noise has been easily dealt with using Neatimage - but quite often there hasn't been a need for noise reduction after the picture has been downsized.

 

[micra]

Frankly I've never had any real concerns about D70 noise.

I've been delighted with the detail I've captured (bird pictures)
in properly exposed pictures at 1000+ ISO (converted from NEF in NC
4.4), and the noise has been easily dealt with using Neatimage -
but quite often there hasn't been a need for noise reduction after
the picture has been downsized.

I have it as you and only on a few pictures i use the NR/Neat Image.

Another thing is, that maybe lower noise from in camera NR, gives less details? Who knows ... )

--
Micra
http://www.pbase.com/ibolesen

 

[Chazbo]

PS 7 supported RAW if you bought the RAW plugin when it was available. To support the D70, you'll need to upgrade to PS CS2.

For noise reduction, look at either Neat Image or Noise Ninja.

The "complaints" about noise in high ISO are overblown (mostly by people that don't have a clue as to what they're doing).
--
'Work is for people who don't know how to surf'

 

[Greg Terzian]

The best way to handle noise is to expose correctly.

But when shooting situations give you no other alternative, try Noiseware.
--
http://www.screamandfly.com/home

 

[micra]

PS 7 supported RAW if you bought the RAW plugin when it was
available. To support the D70, you'll need to upgrade to PS CS2.

For noise reduction, look at either Neat Image or Noise Ninja.

The "complaints" about noise in high ISO are overblown (mostly by
people that don't have a clue as to what they're doing).

What you're saying is, that shooting in RAW has nothing to do with NR?

Personally I can't see how shooting in RAW can have any effect to NR, when NR is applied in JPEG?

I use Neat Image allready, but just want to know a little about what some people are talking about, when they claim there is more noise from D70 and we only have to shoot in RAW ... an so on.

I personally can't follow these people in the "shooting in RAW"-trhing.

--
Micra
http://www.pbase.com/ibolesen

 

[Ronaldhogenboom]

My workflow:

Shoot in RAW (correct exposure is indeed very important)

Open .nef in NC 4.4, optimize for color/white balance

Open in photoshop, crop, resize, whatever, then save a .tiff (16 bit)

Apply NR with neatimage, save as 16 bit .tiff.

Open the filtered image in photoshop, copy it as a new layer onto the original.

Aplly unsharp masking (no hard and fast rule, just do what looks best)

Adjust opacity to achieve optimal results

Save as .jpg

I am a concert photographer, I need high ISO. To judge if I know what I am doing, visit my website.

Kind regards,

Ronald

http://www.lookupinwonder.nl

 

[cmvsm]

I don't work in Photoshop until after the image has been saved to TIFF. I usually export to PS in TIFF so that I don't lose any data from the compression. I have a Noise Ninja plugin that I use in Photoshop. So my workflow is as follows:

1. Convert RAW file in NC4.4
2. Save as a TIFF to avoid data loss during compression
3. Open TIFF in PS for Noise Reduction
4. Save TIFF
5. Reopen in NC4.4, perform any final manipulation, and save as JPEG.

HTH
--
http://cmvsm.zoto.com/galleries/favorites6227

 

[micra]

Hi Ronald.

Your workflow is a little as mine, only that my Neat Image is used as a Photoshop 7 plugin, and I make a layer for NR in PS and so on .....

Your concert pictures are VERY nice !!!

Which camera and which lens do you often use, and what ISO do you often use?

And yes, as you say, the correct exposure is important. Then you only have niose in the dark area ... as you now )

Here is one from me at 1600 ISO (handheld) and NR applied in PS 7



--
Micra
http://www.pbase.com/ibolesen

My workflow:

Shoot in RAW (correct exposure is indeed very important)

Open .nef in NC 4.4, optimize for color/white balance

Open in photoshop, crop, resize, whatever, then save a .tiff (16 bit)

Apply NR with neatimage, save as 16 bit .tiff.

Open the filtered image in photoshop, copy it as a new layer onto
the original.

Aplly unsharp masking (no hard and fast rule, just do what looks best)

Adjust opacity to achieve optimal results

Save as .jpg

I am a concert photographer, I need high ISO. To judge if I know
what I am doing, visit my website.

Kind regards,

Ronald

http://www.lookupinwonder.nl

 

[micra]

I don't work in Photoshop until after the image has been saved to
TIFF. I usually export to PS in TIFF so that I don't lose any data
from the compression. I have a Noise Ninja plugin that I use in
Photoshop. So my workflow is as follows:

1. Convert RAW file in NC4.4
2. Save as a TIFF to avoid data loss during compression
3. Open TIFF in PS for Noise Reduction
4. Save TIFF
5. Reopen in NC4.4, perform any final manipulation, and save as JPEG.

HTH
--
http://cmvsm.zoto.com/galleries/favorites6227

Hi cmvsm.
Just a quick question aout the workflow #5:

Why do you save the JPEG from NC 4.4 and not from PS? Normally I finish the picture in PS and save to JPG from there.

--
Micra
http://www.pbase.com/ibolesen

 

[LiveM]

If you're worried about noise you'd have to be new to photography. What would you have done in the film days?

--

By the way, since this is the Internet, feel free to answer with
any wild A$$ guess that crosses your mind, but kindly distinguish
between information which is entirely fabricated from that which
you find published by a recognized authority.

 

[micra]

--

By the way, since this is the Internet, feel free to answer with
any wild A$$ guess that crosses your mind, but kindly distinguish
between information which is entirely fabricated from that which
you find published by a recognized authority.

Hi Martin.

No i'm not worried about noise - I just want to improve my handling the noise if I can.

Here is one with applied NR (at 1600 ISO - handheld):



--
Micra
http://www.pbase.com/ibolesen

 

[Ronaldhogenboom]

Hi there,

Neat image was installed as plugin in CS2 but it didn't work quite right. Must have done something wrong ;-)

My concert shots are 99% 1600 ISO. As you undoubtedly noticed, there still is noise visible, even after resizing and NR. Well, that's life ;-) Concert lighting changes quickly as well, so some shots will be off in exposure, somethimes very frustrating because it can totally ruin an otherwise perfect shot, RAW or no.

Anyway, I mostly use primes these days, for their speed. I have:

Nikkor 35mm f2 D
Nikkor 50mm f1.8 D
Nikkor 85mm f1.8 non D

The 35 and 85 mm are second hand, the 50mm was new.

My zooms are:

Sigma 28-70 f2.8 (rarely used)

Tokina 80-200 f2.8

I love the big zoom, it is optically outstanding and feels well made. However, mechanically it has broken twice so far. I talked to Tokina Europe this morning and they have repaired it free of charge (warranty) again. I also have this lens in Minolta mount and that never gave problems. Looking at construction details it is obvious they are from different subcontracters/factories. Then again, it costs half of what the Nikon equivalent costs.

If you notice there is a glaring gap as far as wide angle coverage is concerned, you are right. Next on the list if the Sigma 20mm f1.8 for when I have a bit more money.

--
Ronald

http://www.lookupinwonder.nl

 

[Bill Karadimos]

I have been using my D70 for around 2 years 31,000 plus pictures plus and never had a prob, One thing and I am sure this is also true at high ISO with other camera's if your exposture is off you can get a lot of noise...jmo
--

Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming - ' Wow! What a ride!'

 

[micra]

--
Micra
http://www.pbase.com/ibolesen

 

[RLewis]

This shot was obviously indoors in available light with my D70. I used the 18-70mm kit lens, 1/15th sec at f3.5...ISO 1000...handheld.



I took it specifically to take a look at the "noise". I like the shot and yes there is some noise but nothing that detracts from the shot...IMHO. To be honest, I'm so use to it (after 35 yrs of dealing with grain in film), I make it work to my advantage. It usually is not an issue with me.

Rick
--
Life is too short....Live Large!

 

[SW Kim]

lol. I agree with you.

The D70's RAW file is definitely noisier than the D50. But the difference is hardly significant.

You expose correctly, accoutning for the D70's conservative metering, and you will get perfectly usable shots at ISO 1000 and perfectly usable 4x6 prints at ISO 1600 WITHOUT noise reduction.

 

[Bill Karadimos]

lol. I agree with you.

The D70's RAW file is definitely noisier than the D50. But the
difference is hardly significant.

You expose correctly, accoutning for the D70's conservative
metering, and you will get perfectly usable shots at ISO 1000 and
perfectly usable 4x6 prints at ISO 1600 WITHOUT noise reduction.

Agreed......
--

Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming - ' Wow! What a ride!'

 

[Travis G VanDenBerg]

Noise is not an issue for most viewers , even at ISO 1600, if the image is exposed correctly.

Underexpose...and things get ugly.

At 1600, you've got to get that histogram all the way to the right....even blowing a few highlights.

Also, keep in mind that most people who view photographs don't really care about a little "grain".

The noise that is readily apparent at 100% magnification on our monitors is barely seen in normal-sized prints.

Some DSLRs are better than others in the noise area. But, they give up other things in return. Practically speaking , there is little difference in the ultimate image. Good photography techniques are important with any of the cameras out today.

 

[micra]

The conclusion is ...

• Correct exposure by really using the histogram.
• RAW or no RAW - the noise is the same.
• Many prints don't show the noise we see on our monitors.
• Use other NR than Photoshop CS2.

BTW - the noise are more visible on a TFT compared to an old CRT monitor.

--
Micra
http://www.pbase.com/ibolesen