Color space questions

[timc13]

Thanks to loyd and Eugene, I discovered a new colorspace that was usable in CS2, Photopro.

What I would like to know from the 1d series folks is what is the general consensus on colorspace used. what colorspace do most of you use in camera(RAW format, as that is all I shoot), and what colorspace do you work in, in CS2 or other software?

I have always used the srgb as I understood the Adobe colorspace was a narrower gamut of color, is this correct?

What is the difference between srgb and Photopro colorspace? the same? bigger gamut of colors? Is there another colorspace that is better and more preferred to use?

Shooting Raw, do you want to shoot the same colorspace you work in or does it matter?

I know I did work a little in the adobe colorspace and printed out a God awful looking picture in colors.....thanks for advice and opinions..t
--
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http://www.tecphotos.com

 

[PicOne]

Thanks to loyd and Eugene, I discovered a new colorspace that was
usable in CS2, Photopro.

What I would like to know from the 1d series folks is what is the
general consensus on colorspace used. what colorspace do most of
you use in camera(RAW format, as that is all I shoot),

In Raw, it there is no color space. This is chosen when working in the converter of your choice.

and what

colorspace do you work in, in CS2 or other software?

I use aRGB.. which is has a larger gamut than sRGB. sRGB is however what you should convert to (in the end) if your results are to be web viewable.

I have always used the srgb as I understood the Adobe colorspace
was a narrower gamut of color, is this correct?

What is the difference between srgb and Photopro colorspace? the
same? bigger gamut of colors? Is there another colorspace that is
better and more preferred to use?

ProPhoto rgb space is the largest gamut usually available. I don't use it, since my printer and monitor can't reproduce this wide of a gamut, and I'd rather be more aware of any color clipping that will happen prior to printing (although the monitor even has trouble reproducing aRGB fully).

Shooting Raw, do you want to shoot the same colorspace you work in
or does it matter?

Doesn't matter, raw is raw. However, If you've set sRGB or aRGB in the camera as your color space, this will just mean that when you open a file in a converter, it should default to you working in that colorspace, BUT your are not required to stay in that color space.

I know I did work a little in the adobe colorspace and printed out
a God awful looking picture in colors.....thanks for advice and
opinions..t

This sounds like its likely the result of you making some incorrect color management settings in your print dialogues.

--
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http://www.tecphotos.com

 

[timc13]

Thanks PicOne...that was exactly what i needed....I have usually used srgb in workspace, but just heard of Photopro. I have the epson 2400 printer so will stick with the Srgb..thanks so much for your time and your detailed responses.

on the lousy picture, I think on one i had forgotten to select no color management in the print options, as you said, another one I don't know what happened to it.....maybe a low ink cartridge.....but all works well it seems under srgb....

I asked about in camera, and I realize that it does not matter for RAW, but when I convert it says my working space is diff than the embedded one do I want to convert and just did not want to lose anything in converting from the embedded to the working..so maybe will change the in camera to Srgb just to make sure..thanks again so much for your help..t
--
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http://www.tecphotos.com

 

[JimS DPT]

I use aRGB in the camera as well as PS2.

 

[Scaught]

You have misunderstood this to be a more narrow space, but in reality Adobe RGB 1998 is a broader color space (contains more colors) than sRGB. In addition it is more compatible than ProPhoto RGB, as this is so broad that the most saturated colors are rarely visible on most devices.

Adobe RGB 1998 is a good one.

To use it, simply select it as your color space while processing raw images. When working with existing images in other spaces, simply convert to this space (if desired).

I agree with the idea of converting images back to sRGB before saving for the web or for sending to printers (labs).
--
sg

 

[PicOne]

Thanks PicOne...that was exactly what i needed....I have usually
used srgb in workspace, but just heard of Photopro. I have the
epson 2400 printer so will stick with the Srgb..thanks so much for
your time and your detailed responses.

I use the 2400 as well.. It does a good job with aRGB files -- you should consider trying out aRGB.. you can get some more deep and vibrant yellows, blues and greens if they exist in your subjects.

on the lousy picture, I think on one i had forgotten to select no
color management in the print options, as you said, another one I
don't know what happened to it.....maybe a low ink
cartridge.....but all works well it seems under srgb....

I asked about in camera, and I realize that it does not matter for
RAW, but when I convert it says my working space is diff than the
embedded one do I want to convert and just did not want to lose
anything in converting from the embedded to the working..so maybe
will change the in camera to Srgb just to make sure..thanks again
so much for your help..t

Here you lost me a bit. Are you shooting with sRGB as your in-camera preference? The dialogue you mention is due to the fact that you have set a color setting preference in PS to use (eg. aRGB) as your default working space. If you are always converting to sRGB, then you'd get this dialogue as you're converting your Raw file to a color space different than what PS has been told you're preference is. If you truly want to stay shooting and converting in sRGB, then simply change your color setting preference in PS for desired working space to sRGB and you won't get those questioning dialogues popping up in PS.

--
Click below for my website:

http://www.tecphotos.com

 

[timc13]

thanks for reposting....I missed the "a" rgb...does it have the same gamut as srgb? I will definitely try it...I am learning new things..thanks so much...

I think that the default in my 1d is set to adobe. my working space in CS is srgb, and when I open a raw file it says that the embedded colorspace in the raw file is different to the working space one of srgb, do I want to convert to srgb....so I do...thanks..t
--
Click below for my website:

http://www.tecphotos.com

 

[timc13]

is the Adobe RGB 1998 the asrgb or totally different?

At what point would you convert to srgb.....i don't think I have ever converted or even know how.

IF it is not the Argb, do I need to convert the Argb to srgb prior to printing and if so how? thanks so much..t
--
Click below for my website:

http://www.tecphotos.com

 

[PicOne]

thanks for reposting....I missed the "a" rgb...does it have the
same gamut as srgb? I will definitely try it...I am learning new
things..thanks so much...

aRGB's gamut is larger than sRGB -- more colors available.

I think that the default in my 1d is set to adobe. my working
space in CS is srgb, and when I open a raw file it says that the
embedded colorspace in the raw file is different to the working
space one of srgb, do I want to convert to srgb....so I
do...thanks..t

I think the easy way to know whether your default in camera is aRGB vs. sRGB by whether your filenames begin with an underscore eg. XXX the underscore being a flag that shot has aRGB as the embedded colorspace.

Quick read here:

http://www.drycreekphoto.com/Learn/color_spaces.htm

--
Click below for my website:

http://www.tecphotos.com

 

[timc13]

wow thanks...you have taught me a whole lot today..and thanks for the link...I really do appreciate it..t
--
Click below for my website:

http://www.tecphotos.com

 

[timc13]

Last question...since you use the 2400. Do you convert from argb to srgb to print, and if so where/how do you do that?

And if do you use any icc profiles, I never have, but just wondering if you did and which ones? thanks..and that link is a great read...t
--
Click below for my website:

http://www.tecphotos.com

 

[foldedpath]

Regarding the Prophoto color space -- you might want to consider it as a hedge against future developments in monitors and printing, but that's about the only reason to use it. Here's an argument for it:

http://luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/prophoto-rgb.shtml

And here's an argument against, although in a postscript the author says he's started using it as a hedge, but compressing to Adobe RGB for actual work in Photoshop:

http://www.earthboundlight.com/phototips/prophoto-rgb.html

If you do use Prophoto, make sure you're doing 16 bit conversions. Right now I'm using Adobe RGB, because I'm concerned about compression and potential banding, or the "science fiction color" problem with Prophoto... especially when moving in and out of the LAB color space for editing (which is a whole other topic). I feel safer working in Adobe RGB.

Adobe RGB is actually overkill for some subjects like studio portraits and skin tones, but I need it for saturated greens in landscapes, so it's easier to just standardize on one color space. Just remember that when preparing images for web display, you have to convert to sRGB or the colors will look flat (consumer monitors run in sRGB). I made a Photoshop action that includes the sRGB conversion as part of the jpeg conversion, so I don't have to think about it.

 

[theatrus]

Adobe RGB is commonly abbreviated aRGB because people are lazy

I'd convert to sRGB or the printer profile right before saving for output. You can view what everything looks like in sRGB first by soft proofing, but to actually convert the file you need to do Edit-> Convert to profile... (don't use Assign ).

Of course that opens up the whole ballgame of rendering intent, etc.

Color management is voodoo at times

is the Adobe RGB 1998 the asrgb or totally different?

At what point would you convert to srgb.....i don't think I have
ever converted or even know how.

IF it is not the Argb, do I need to convert the Argb to srgb prior
to printing and if so how? thanks so much..t
--
Click below for my website:

http://www.tecphotos.com

 

[PicOne]

Last question...since you use the 2400. Do you convert from argb
to srgb to print, and if so where/how do you do that?

No. I print from PS and leave the photo as aRGB. The only reason I have to convert (and I usually also downsize) to sRGB is for (as mentioned previously) web posting. Browser's (eg Internet Explorer) are not color aware usually of color space, so if you put a aRGB photo on the web for viewing, the colors will likely looked weak.

In PS, I believe you can do this (after doing a SAVE-AS of your original aRGB TIFF if you want to keep the higher quality aRGB copy) under "CONVERT to PROFILE" -- either under the File or Edit menus (I can't remember which), where you select the destination color space you want the photo converted to.

NOTE: Do not bother to convert any Tiffs or Jpegs you already may have in sRGB to aRGB, as you cannot get back any colors that are already thrown away by having saved as an sRGB. Obviously you can still re-Convert your original Raws to aRGB though.

And if do you use any icc profiles, I never have, but just
wondering if you did and which ones? thanks..and that link is a
great read...t

I use the specific paper profiles that you can get for most papers from Epson's site (if you use Epson's papers). Other paper manufacturers usually publish their own profiles on their own sites for their papers for most widely used printers.

--
Click below for my website:

http://www.tecphotos.com

 

[timc13]

Thanks again, that is great to know..I archive my RAWs so I can redo them if ever needed which is why i like Raw so much, if better technology comes along to convert with, I can reconvert and make better looking pics...so I will use argb to print and then srgb for the web..this has been a great learning experience.

Yes I only use epson ink and epson paper..I much much prefer the premium luster paper over all others, so will check out their profiles....had been leery of profiles in the past but time to experiment..smiling....thanks so much for your time and help..t
--
Click below for my website:

http://www.tecphotos.com

 

[timc13]

Thanks, and yes I understand about it can be voodoo...i have come out with some really wierd stuff at times on the printer...one computer set with the same settings as another, just different monitor, i edited photos and printed and they were really red blotchy, just horrible..so a lot goes into getting it right..thanks..t
--
Click below for my website:

http://www.tecphotos.com

 

[timc13]

Thanks Fold, that makes sense and will get over and read those links too. I do use 16 bit, or the highest i can. Thanks for more indepth on the photopro...seems I best stay with the argb for printing for now then. thanks so much for your time also...t
--
Click below for my website:

http://www.tecphotos.com

 

[Tom O'Neil]

I use Prophoto as the working space. Maybe I'm stumbling around in the dark (which is quite possible) but for me, for my images, for my usage, for my level of expertise, Prophoto gives me better results than Adobe.

Thanks to loyd and Eugene, I discovered a new colorspace that was
usable in CS2, Photopro.

What I would like to know from the 1d series folks is what is the
general consensus on colorspace used. what colorspace do most of
you use in camera(RAW format, as that is all I shoot), and what
colorspace do you work in, in CS2 or other software?
I have always used the srgb as I understood the Adobe colorspace
was a narrower gamut of color, is this correct?

What is the difference between srgb and Photopro colorspace? the
same? bigger gamut of colors? Is there another colorspace that is
better and more preferred to use?

Shooting Raw, do you want to shoot the same colorspace you work in
or does it matter?

I know I did work a little in the adobe colorspace and printed out
a God awful looking picture in colors.....thanks for advice and
opinions..t
--
Click below for my website:

http://www.tecphotos.com

 

[GeoffreyH]

Another nod for Adobe RGB here. Use sRGB when the image will be viewed on the web, kiosk or dvd etc.

More and more pundits are recommending ProPhoto however.

I'd convert to sRGB or the printer profile right before saving for output...

Not recommended. Leave it as Adobe RGB, never convert to the printer profile.

Geoff

 

[timc13]

Not recommended. Leave it as Adobe RGB, never convert to the
printer profile.

Geoff

Why?
you don't recommend using printer profiles on the 2400 then? thanks..t
--
Click below for my website:

http://www.tecphotos.com