Classic Shell

[Patsy Murphy]

Sadly Classic Shell will become open source.

Classic Shell no longer in development, and now open source - Windows 10 Help Forums

Sad news, everyone. After months of deliberation, I have decided to stop the development of Classic Shell. It was a great adventure for me that lasted 8 fun and exciting years. It started back in 2009

www.tenforums.com

Regards Patsym

 

[Mystery member]

Sadly Classic Shell will become open source.

https://www.tenforums.com/windows-10-news/99582-classic-shell-no-longer-development-now-open-source.htm

If CS could be developed and maintained as a "hobby", surely MS could have done us a favour and released Win8 with a standard interface. Quite a pity, since Win8 itself was quite a good OS.

My small non-touch notebook was almost unusable until I installed CS, and it's been trouble-free for nearly four years now. Several friends also benefitted from CS when they found Win8 too much of a leap into the unknown (despite being quite competent XP and Win7 users).

 

[Don_Campbell]

Sadly Classic Shell will become open source.

https://www.tenforums.com/windows-1...ll-no-longer-development-now-open-source.html

Regards Patsym

I barely use Windows 10, and almost exclusively my use is inside of a VirtualBox VM. I have not used "Classic Shell" and I had to look it up to see what it was. However, the idea that it is "sad" that a software product will become open source may be misguided. I use Linux and a lot of Linux apps that are open source. Some of those are cross-platform and available in Windows. Many of them started out as commercial products that at some point lost the financial support of their owners and became open source at that time.

Open source is a great development model. It's different from the MS/Adobe/Apple models but that doesn't make it less effective. If interested developers adopt it it could be a great thing.

Don

 

[Zone8]

Don_Campbell wrote: Open source is a great development model. It's different from the MS/Adobe/Apple models but that doesn't make it less effective. If interested developers adopt it it could be a great thing.

As Don says, Open Source is not a drawback - quite the opposite in fact,

 

[Patsy Murphy]

Don_Campbell wrote: Open source is a great development model. It's different from the MS/Adobe/Apple models but that doesn't make it less effective. If interested developers adopt it it could be a great thing.

As Don says, Open Source is not a drawback - quite the opposite in fact,

 

[IanYorke]

Don_Campbell wrote: Open source is a great development model. It's different from the MS/Adobe/Apple models but that doesn't make it less effective. If interested developers adopt it it could be a great thing.

As Don says, Open Source is not a drawback - quite the opposite in fact,

 

[Mystery member]

You're right open source is not a drawback, the biggest problem for developers Is the fact that Microsoft appear to be going down the road of doing 2 major updates per year which will make it exceptionally hard for any developers to keep it going.

Agreed, also the concept of trying to cling to the look and feel of a 8 year old OS will appeal to fewer and fewer people.

I've been "Interface Agnostic" ever since Win3.0, and the only reason for CS was to fix the obvious deficiencies of Win8. It says a lot that Microsoft felt it necessary to rewrite the interface for Win10.

By agnostic, I mean that when members of my family are working in other institutions, it's often not obvious to them what version of Windows they're working on; they're working, you see, not futzing with the interface.

 

[Austinian]

Your right open source is not a drawback, the biggest problem for developers Is the fact that Microsoft appear to be going down the road of doing 2 major updates per year which will make it exceptionally hard for any developers to keep it going.

Have users seen recent feature updates actually breaking CS?

I've got the latest FCU, and I'm still using CS 4.3.0 dated July 30, 2016. No problems so far.

4.3.1 is out, and officially compatible with the CU, but until CS actually breaks I plan to keep using on those PCs that already have it.

 

[Archer66]

Don_Campbell wrote: Open source is a great development model. It's different from the MS/Adobe/Apple models but that doesn't make it less effective. If interested developers adopt it it could be a great thing.

As Don says, Open Source is not a drawback - quite the opposite in fact

Not true.

Ask city of Munich.

 

[Simon Garrett]

Don_Campbell wrote: Open source is a great development model. It's different from the MS/Adobe/Apple models but that doesn't make it less effective. If interested developers adopt it it could be a great thing.

As Don says, Open Source is not a drawback - quite the opposite in fact,

 

[IanYorke]

Don_Campbell wrote: Open source is a great development model. It's different from the MS/Adobe/Apple models but that doesn't make it less effective. If interested developers adopt it it could be a great thing.

As Don says, Open Source is not a drawback - quite the opposite in fact,

--
Zone8: Although I am a handsome genius, when I stand in front of a mirror, I vaguely recognise the ugly idjit standing on the other side!
LINK: For B+W with Epson 1400 (and other 6-ink models) using black ink only PLUS other useful tips including update covering nozzle clearing:
http://www.photosnowdonia.co.uk/ZPS/epson1400-B&W.htm and later article on refillables: http://photosnowdonia.co.uk/ZPS/epson1400to1500-refillables.htm
Cleaning DSLR Sensors, including Kodak DSLR Factory Cleaning method:
http://www.photosnowdonia.co.uk/ZPS/KodakDCS-sensorcleaning.htm (Includes links to "bassotto's" images)
Solving back/front focus problems on Sigma and most other DSLRs
http://www.photosnowdonia.co.uk/ZPS/backfocus.htm
PDF format list of lenses you can print or download - covers Italian Flag YES/NO for DCS 14n but applies to others. http://www.photosnowdonia.co.uk/ZPS/ItiFlagLensList.pdf

Your right open source is not a drawback, the biggest problem for developers Is the fact that Microsoft appear to be going down the road of doing 2 major updates per year which will make it exceptionally hard for any developers to keep it going.

Regards Patsym

Agreed, also the concept of trying to cling to the look and feel of a 8 year old OS will appeal to fewer and fewer people.

Ian

Perhaps, and fewer and fewer people will bother to change. I think the W10 start is OK, but I find Classic Shell is more compact, and needs much less scrolling through the app list and for me it's a more efficient interface. It's not a matter of clinging to an old interface.

IMHO best to avoid using emotive language like "cling to the look and feel of an 8 year old...". It instantly labels people as inferior rather than judging the matter on the merits of the issue.

--
Simon

Well as you know, the expression "cling to the old ways" is a common English expression / use of the word cling:

clingklɪŋ/verbverb: cling; 3rd person present: clings; past tense: clung; past participle: clung; gerund or present participle: clinging

1. 1.hold on tightly to.

So I don't see it as inferring inferior. However, people may take any word as offensive if they are inclined.

Hold on tightly I think is a fair description of needing CS. Just my opinion.

As to efficiency I really can't see this as the Win 10 UI has no scrolling compared to less scrolling

I have posted this screen shot before during UI discussions but I make no apology for doing so again





Win 10 gives me 1 click access to over 60 programs with zero scrolling / clicking and occupies less than a third of the screen. Efficient Yes / No?

There is nothing wrong in wanting to have your computer UI organised the way you want, the individuals opinion is teh one that matters for them. My point is that Win 10 is the most ergonomic arrangement at the moment in my opinion. You can adapt to the mainstream (going forward) UI or stick (cling) to what you know. Individual choice.

I have moved 2 computer illiterate users (family members ) from Win 7 to Win 10 and I was surprised that they had zero issues with the new UI. Now they simply click on the Windows button and then click the program shortcut that they are interested in. So not difficult, but that is essentially all they did before. The other surprise, given the many posts on this forum, is that they have not been back to their IT support professional (ME) for any help with Windows updates including the CU and FCU updates.

There is also the reality that are you really going to use CS for ever? If so fine, if not you might a swell move now - users free choice.

Ian

 

[Simon Garrett]

Don_Campbell wrote: Open source is a great development model. It's different from the MS/Adobe/Apple models but that doesn't make it less effective. If interested developers adopt it it could be a great thing.

As Don says, Open Source is not a drawback - quite the opposite in fact,

--
Zone8: Although I am a handsome genius, when I stand in front of a mirror, I vaguely recognise the ugly idjit standing on the other side!
LINK: For B+W with Epson 1400 (and other 6-ink models) using black ink only PLUS other useful tips including update covering nozzle clearing:
http://www.photosnowdonia.co.uk/ZPS/epson1400-B&W.htm and later article on refillables: http://photosnowdonia.co.uk/ZPS/epson1400to1500-refillables.htm
Cleaning DSLR Sensors, including Kodak DSLR Factory Cleaning method:
http://www.photosnowdonia.co.uk/ZPS/KodakDCS-sensorcleaning.htm (Includes links to "bassotto's" images)
Solving back/front focus problems on Sigma and most other DSLRs
http://www.photosnowdonia.co.uk/ZPS/backfocus.htm
PDF format list of lenses you can print or download - covers Italian Flag YES/NO for DCS 14n but applies to others. http://www.photosnowdonia.co.uk/ZPS/ItiFlagLensList.pdf

Your right open source is not a drawback, the biggest problem for developers Is the fact that Microsoft appear to be going down the road of doing 2 major updates per year which will make it exceptionally hard for any developers to keep it going.

Regards Patsym

Agreed, also the concept of trying to cling to the look and feel of a 8 year old OS will appeal to fewer and fewer people.

Ian

Perhaps, and fewer and fewer people will bother to change. I think the W10 start is OK, but I find Classic Shell is more compact, and needs much less scrolling through the app list and for me it's a more efficient interface. It's not a matter of clinging to an old interface.

IMHO best to avoid using emotive language like "cling to the look and feel of an 8 year old...". It instantly labels people as inferior rather than judging the matter on the merits of the issue.

--
Simon

Well as you know, the expression "cling to the old ways" is a common English expression / use of the word cling:

clingklɪŋ/verbverb: cling; 3rd person present: clings; past tense: clung; past participle: clung; gerund or present participle: clinging

1. 1.hold on tightly to.

So I don't see it as inferring inferior. However, people may take any word as offensive if they are inclined.

Hold on tightly I think is a fair description of needing CS. Just my opinion.

As to efficiency I really can't see this as the Win 10 UI has no scrolling compared to less scrolling

I have posted this screen shot before during UI discussions but I make no apology for doing so again



Win 10 gives me 1 click access to over 60 programs with zero scrolling / clicking and occupies less than a third of the screen. Efficient Yes / No?

There is nothing wrong in wanting to have your computer UI organised the way you want, the individuals opinion is teh one that matters for them. My point is that Win 10 is the most ergonomic arrangement at the moment in my opinion. You can adapt to the mainstream (going forward) UI or stick (cling) to what you know. Individual choice.

I have moved 2 computer illiterate users (family members ) from Win 7 to Win 10 and I was surprised that they had zero issues with the new UI. Now they simply click on the Windows button and then click the program shortcut that they are interested in. So not difficult, but that is essentially all they did before. The other surprise, given the many posts on this forum, is that they have not been back to their IT support professional (ME) for any help with Windows updates including the CU and FCU updates.

There is also the reality that are you really going to use CS for ever? If so fine, if not you might a swell move now - users free choice.

Ian

No real disagreement, and sorry if I sounded argumentative.

The list of folders is a rather more compact in the Classic Shell start list, and I find I can scroll through it faster, but it's a minor thing. If Classic Shell doesn't get updated by someone for the next major release then I shan't shed many tears. My one wish would be to have a compact option to show the W10 start menu list in a denser form with smaller icons.

Generally I do shift to new ways of working when they appear.

In our office, our computers were all using W7 until about a year ago when we got the first machine with W10. I asked the people in the office if they wanted to shift to the W10 start menu or use Classic Shell, and they all said Classic Shell. This was I think mainly because they switch between the machines with W7 and W10. Personally I should have preferred that they said W10 start menu as it's less maintenance for me. As they start to get W10 on home computers (and we're getting another two W10 machines in the office shortly) I suspect that preference by the office people will change.

--
Simon

 

[rb0321]

Open source software can be great and I’ve been a big fan of it for years, especially when I got into Linux a couple years ago, but I’ve happily been using an open source office suite for many years.

Starting with NeoOffice on an iMac in the early 2000’s, I switched to Open Office as it seemed to be better supported. Then a couple years ago Libre Office took the lead and I’ve been using it without issue ever since.

Have also been using GIMP, RawTherapee, and Darktable for PP in Linux and OS10, but earlier this year when I switched back to Windows, and preferring Lightroom for PP, I began exclusively using Lightroom and GIMP on Windows 10.

One thing obvious about open source software is the widely varying degree of support.

This is especially noticeable with Linux and it’s myriad forms. Have been frustrated (too many times to count) moving from one Linux distribution to another in search of that special ‘one’, but even moving from one desktop to another in the same distro (like moving from Fedora 27 Gnome, to Cinnamon) can have disastrous effects. As an aside - long story but I recently wiped all trace of Linux from all my systems due to just such a move. Last straw, etc, etc...

For those that like CS it just depends on who picks it up and how long they stay interested in it. One nice thing is that if you’re a big fan and have some skills, you can now take the ball and run with it yourself.

--
www.flickr.com/photos/rb00321/

 

[Mystery member]

Open source software can be great and I’ve been a big fan of it for years, especially when I got into Linux a couple years ago, but I’ve happily been using an open source office suite for many years.

Starting with NeoOffice on an iMac in the early 2000’s, I switched to Open Office as it seemed to be better supported. Then a couple years ago Libre Office took the lead and I’ve been using it without issue ever since.

Have also been using GIMP, RawTherapee, and Darktable for PP in Linux and OS10, but earlier this year when I switched back to Windows, and preferring Lightroom for PP, I began exclusively using Lightroom and GIMP on Windows 10.

One thing obvious about open source software is the widely varying degree of support.

This is especially noticeable with Linux and it’s myriad forms. Have been frustrated (too many times to count) moving from one Linux distribution to another in search of that special ‘one’, but even moving from one desktop to another in the same distro (like moving from Fedora 27 Gnome, to Cinnamon) can have disastrous effects. As an aside - long story but I recently wiped all trace of Linux from all my systems due to just such a move. Last straw, etc, etc...

Interesting.

I've always shied away from Linux, apart from an early version that I set up as a matter of interest. I once had a look at a friend's computer which seemed to be a "menagerie" of various Linux versions with multiple partitions and boot options etc. As is typical with such situations, my friend was silent on the subject of useful work output.

 

[rb0321]

I've always shied away from Linux, apart from an early version that I set up as a matter of interest. I once had a look at a friend's computer which seemed to be a "menagerie" of various Linux versions with multiple partitions and boot options etc. As is typical with such situations, my friend was silent on the subject of useful work output.

Yeah, Linux has come a long way since the early days and many use it as their OS of choice. Munich for example, oh wait...

CAcreeks is one, and several others here use Linux a lot, if not exclusively. I tried to switch over in early 2016 but missed LR too much. Kept trying new Linux versions and it was useful (and fun) for awhile but after what had been a 'rock solid' run with Manjaro, it starting giving me issues and it's been up and down since.

When I recently went to install Fedora 27 Gnome in a partition on my SSD, it coughed and wiped my UEFI boot sector as it tried to configure the Grub 2 bootloader. :-0

Luckily I had a recovery drive but it still caused quite a bit of teeth gnashing. In the end I found the easiest way to recover was to reinstall Fedora, the bootloader was restored and all was well.

I found the Fedora Gnome desktop surprisingly nice and it worked flawlessly, but preferring Cinnamon I gave it a shot. Sadly, it was full of bugs, quickly turned into a disaster and something snapped. In me that is, so Linux is completely gone from all my computers at the moment.

Shoulda' stuck with Gnome I guess. Of course there are ways to tweak many Linux distros to work as exactly as you want but I'm finding it easier to just keep Win 10 updated. As I mentioned in another thread recently, it's my 'distro' of choice right now.

 

[IanYorke]

Don_Campbell wrote: Open source is a great development model. It's different from the MS/Adobe/Apple models but that doesn't make it less effective. If interested developers adopt it it could be a great thing.

As Don says, Open Source is not a drawback - quite the opposite in fact,

--
Zone8: Although I am a handsome genius, when I stand in front of a mirror, I vaguely recognise the ugly idjit standing on the other side!
LINK: For B+W with Epson 1400 (and other 6-ink models) using black ink only PLUS other useful tips including update covering nozzle clearing:
http://www.photosnowdonia.co.uk/ZPS/epson1400-B&W.htm and later article on refillables: http://photosnowdonia.co.uk/ZPS/epson1400to1500-refillables.htm
Cleaning DSLR Sensors, including Kodak DSLR Factory Cleaning method:
http://www.photosnowdonia.co.uk/ZPS/KodakDCS-sensorcleaning.htm (Includes links to "bassotto's" images)
Solving back/front focus problems on Sigma and most other DSLRs
http://www.photosnowdonia.co.uk/ZPS/backfocus.htm
PDF format list of lenses you can print or download - covers Italian Flag YES/NO for DCS 14n but applies to others. http://www.photosnowdonia.co.uk/ZPS/ItiFlagLensList.pdf

Your right open source is not a drawback, the biggest problem for developers Is the fact that Microsoft appear to be going down the road of doing 2 major updates per year which will make it exceptionally hard for any developers to keep it going.

Regards Patsym

Agreed, also the concept of trying to cling to the look and feel of a 8 year old OS will appeal to fewer and fewer people.

Ian

Perhaps, and fewer and fewer people will bother to change. I think the W10 start is OK, but I find Classic Shell is more compact, and needs much less scrolling through the app list and for me it's a more efficient interface. It's not a matter of clinging to an old interface.

IMHO best to avoid using emotive language like "cling to the look and feel of an 8 year old...". It instantly labels people as inferior rather than judging the matter on the merits of the issue.

--
Simon

Well as you know, the expression "cling to the old ways" is a common English expression / use of the word cling:

clingklɪŋ/verbverb: cling; 3rd person present: clings; past tense: clung; past participle: clung; gerund or present participle: clinging

1. 1.hold on tightly to.

So I don't see it as inferring inferior. However, people may take any word as offensive if they are inclined.

Hold on tightly I think is a fair description of needing CS. Just my opinion.

As to efficiency I really can't see this as the Win 10 UI has no scrolling compared to less scrolling

I have posted this screen shot before during UI discussions but I make no apology for doing so again



Win 10 gives me 1 click access to over 60 programs with zero scrolling / clicking and occupies less than a third of the screen. Efficient Yes / No?

There is nothing wrong in wanting to have your computer UI organised the way you want, the individuals opinion is teh one that matters for them. My point is that Win 10 is the most ergonomic arrangement at the moment in my opinion. You can adapt to the mainstream (going forward) UI or stick (cling) to what you know. Individual choice.

I have moved 2 computer illiterate users (family members ) from Win 7 to Win 10 and I was surprised that they had zero issues with the new UI. Now they simply click on the Windows button and then click the program shortcut that they are interested in. So not difficult, but that is essentially all they did before. The other surprise, given the many posts on this forum, is that they have not been back to their IT support professional (ME) for any help with Windows updates including the CU and FCU updates.

There is also the reality that are you really going to use CS for ever? If so fine, if not you might a swell move now - users free choice.

Ian

No real disagreement, and sorry if I sounded argumentative.

The list of folders is a rather more compact in the Classic Shell start list, and I find I can scroll through it faster, but it's a minor thing. If Classic Shell doesn't get updated by someone for the next major release then I shan't shed many tears. My one wish would be to have a compact option to show the W10 start menu list in a denser form with smaller icons.

Generally I do shift to new ways of working when they appear.

In our office, our computers were all using W7 until about a year ago when we got the first machine with W10. I asked the people in the office if they wanted to shift to the W10 start menu or use Classic Shell, and they all said Classic Shell. This was I think mainly because they switch between the machines with W7 and W10. Personally I should have preferred that they said W10 start menu as it's less maintenance for me. As they start to get W10 on home computers (and we're getting another two W10 machines in the office shortly) I suspect that preference by the office people will change.

--
Simon

No problems

Ian

 

[glasswave]

Sadly Classic Shell will become open source.

https://www.tenforums.com/windows-1...ll-no-longer-development-now-open-source.html

It seems better than win10 in any way that counts. Plus it has Windows Classic theme natively.