Chromebook vs ????

  • Thread starter Thread starter gail
  • Start date Start date
It's just a netbook with Chrome OS loaded on it.

Chrome OS is an operating system developed by Google that is based on Gentoo Linux "under the covers", with a Google developed UI.

I haven't tried it yet. But, from what I can see, it's designed to look mostly like the Chrome Browser, and you'd use web based apps for virtually everything. Here's a screen shot of one of the Release Candidates: It's a 600MB+ download to get the latest RC. So, I'm not going to bother downloading it to test it. IOW, I'm not interested in using it.

http://getchrome.eu/screenshots.php

There are many different Linux distributions around, and I certainly wouldn't want to use something that appears to be as limited as Chrome from what I can see of it so far.

It's sole purpose appears to be giving you a user interface that points you to their web based applications. Note that you can install web based apps in the Chrome browser without using the Chrome OS, too. ;-)

For example, install the Chrome browser. Get it here:

http://www.google.com/chrome/

Then, go to the Chrome Apps store and you'll see lots of apps and extensions you can use inside of it (but, you'll need to access it from within Chrome instead of Firefox, IE , etc.

https://chrome.google.com/webstore?hl=en-US

If you really like the idea of using Web Based apps most of the time, you may want to check out some of the alternatives, too.. For example, JoliCloud comes to mind:

http://www.jolicloud.com/

It's both a service and they have a Joli OS (that you can install in addition to or in place of Windows), and you can also use Chrome and apps/extensions for Chrome.

But, if I were going to go with a Linux distribution, I'd install something much more full featured compared to those types of choices (Chrome OS, Joli OS, etc. are not what I'd install to use full time).

I keep more than one Linux distribution installed on my desktop in a multi-boot config with Windows 7. I'm running under SimplyMEPIS 11 right this minute. But, I also have OpenSUSE 11.4, Linux Mint 11 RC and others installed.

--
JimC
 
PreOrders at Amazon and BestBuy, released in mid June.

So far just Samsung and Acer models, around $400-$500, would expect prices to drop to netbook prices by the holidays??
 
Thanks, Jim, for all the info!
If you really like the idea of using Web Based apps most of the time,
Actually, I don't care very for using web based applications. Maybe it's just a matter of not being able to teach an old dog new tricks, but I just prefer to work from my desktop. Of course, I only have a middle speed broadband connection so that may be part of the reason.

--
gail ~ http://www.pbase.com/gailb

My Sony NEX-3 blog: http://www.digicamhelp.com/camera-logs/sony-nex-3/sony-nex-3//
 
Will all programs have to be accessed online, including Photoshop?
What is this 'Photoshop' you speak of? That program only runs on Windows, and on Mac OS. Even if you ignore the inadequacy of a netbook as a Photoshop hardware platform, you're not going to be running full Photoshop on a ChromeOS netbook, no matter where the application binary is normally stored.

I suppose that someone could set up a bunch of Windows or Mac OS servers running Photoshop, and allow the ChromeOS netbooks to connect to them and control them using some virtual screen protocol like VNC. Even if that could be made to work (no unsolvable performance, security, reliability, or availability issues), I still think I would want something better than a netbook to act as the "dumb terminal".
 
Some interesting reading on the pros and cons of the Chromebook.

Lots of interesting stuff on Google Chrome today after Google I/O Conference this week! Main Link : http://nl.com.com/view_online_newsletter.jsp?list_id=e539

Four cherry-picked topics !

1. Five Reasons why Google's Linux Chromebook is a Windows killer

After years, decades, of talking about Linux taking on Windows on the desktop, we finally have a serious contender with a serious backer, Google, behind it.

READ FULL STORY http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/five-reasons-why-googles-linux-chromebook-is-a-windows-killer/8887?tag=nl.e539

2. Five reasons why Google's new Chromebook isn't a Windows-killer

Some analysts are convinced that Google's new OS marks the beginning of the end for Windows. But I've seen this movie before. The Chromebook is a glorified netbook, and its deceptive price tag.

READ FULL STORY http://www.zdnet.com/blog/bott/five-reasons-why-googles-new-chromebook-isnt-a-windows-killer/3290?tag=nl.e539

3. Google's Chromebook for business: Interesting math, but your mileage will vary

What follows is a good faith effort to highlight some of the arithmetic needed to make a comparison between Google's Chromebook, a thin virtualized client and a PC deployment.

READ FULL STORY http://www.zdnet.com/blog/btl/googles-chromebook-for-business-interesting-math-but-your-mileage-will-vary/48645?tag=nl.e539

4. The biggest barrier to the Chromebook in the consumer space: Apple

There's a huge barrier to entry for millions of consumers considering the Chromebook: it doesn't work with Apple products. That barrier may be too big for Google to overcome.

READ FULL STORY http://www.zdnet.com/blog/mobile-news/the-biggest-barrier-to-the-chromebook-in-the-consumer-space-apple/2423?tag=nl.e539

Jpegman
 
The last I heard, Google's OS on a netbook was supposed to be intended for someone who would do everything on it with just the Chrome browser: web and web based email. And that it wasn't intended to be a serious computer operating system.

I find it disappointing to hear Google just used Linux which is pretty poor at installing new programs. You have to be a computer programmer to install new ones since they aren't all inclusive install files like Microsoft has.
--
http://roberthoy.zenfolio.com/
http://www.photographybyhoy.com
 
Thanks for all the interesting articles. The more I read, the less I'm interested. There have been too many problems in the "clouds" recently: Amazon and, I believe, even Microsoft and Google.

I can't help but think we're all too willing giving too much of our information to companies like Google, in addition to what they take without us knowing it. Sony recently had some serious security breeches: usernames, passwords and lots more into the hands of who knows who.

If terrorists got jobs with some of these companies, who knows. Just thinking out loud.
--
gail ~ http://www.pbase.com/gailb

My Sony NEX-3 blog: http://www.digicamhelp.com/camera-logs/sony-nex-3/sony-nex-3//
 
Chromebooks will fit a niche for those wishing just a surfing netbook. I've been trying a Xoom tablet for awhile now . . . so I pretty much know what to expect out of a Chromebook function-wise. The Xoom of course, has it's own issues(many) . . lol! I use it as a complimentary surfing device, never intended to replace a real pc. Tablets, as a Chromebook will be, are great for times when I just don't want to sit at my desk and surf, I can carry it anywhere around the house with ease. They turn off and on on a dime. There are many people who desire such simple devices!

I hope maybe Chromebooks will spurn some further refining of Linux on netbooks, because while I would rather use Linux on a netbook, from what I can gather there are no distros that truly work 100% on any new netbook, or laptop for that matter out of the box. I want to buy a new netbook or ultraportable, but am not in a place to be spending days figuring out how to get all the functions to work properly. This is the downside to Linux. I have no problems with it on desktops, thankfully. I simply refuse to ever use a windows device ever again, so I'm all for functioning alternatives. There's a few places that sell Linux installed on netbooks and ultraportables, but the choice is too limited and none appeal to me.

One thing I noticed on the Samsung series 5, is no hdmi port. MAJOR gaffe! What are they thinking ? A next generation device needs hdmi, not an archiac vga output. Oh well. . . . I just won't be buying the Samsung. The Acer . . .not sure, even though it does have hdmi. If they want to compete with the tablets, all chromebooks gotta have hdmi, have great lcd panels, and offer a easy to learn interface.

my 2 cents
 
I hope maybe Chromebooks will spurn some further refining of Linux on netbooks, because while I would rather use Linux on a netbook, from what I can gather there are no distros that truly work 100% on any new netbook, or laptop for that matter out of the box.
Huh? The first netbooks on the market (Eee PC models) were Linux only to begin with.

Only later did Asus begin offering XP as an option. The Eee PC is often credited for Microsoft continuing to offer XP for as long as it did (because MS was losing too many sales to Linux from it). I've got an Eee PC 900 16G (16GB SSD) that shipped with Linux on it. It used a customized version of Xandros, which was based on Debian.

But, a number of other distros also work on it. I used mepis 8.5 for along time, with everything working fine (wireless, touchpad, function keys for volume/lcd brightness, etc.). I've used other distros on it too.

As for laptops, I'm typing this post from a Dell Inspirion 1720 running Mepis 8.5. Before that, I had earlier versions of mepis on it. i've got an old Sager laptop with mepis on it, too (started with mepis 3.3 on that one, now runnng 6.04 beta 4).

You really have to take each Linux distro on a case by case basis with the machine (netbook, notebook, desktop) you plan on using it with. Its a matter of whether or not the distro has the drivers needed, and if the distros setup scripts are smart enough to recognize all of the hardware and configure everything properly for you. Chances are, most major chipsets are supported OK in most distros. Wireless tends to be the biggest problem (but, many chipsets are supported now).

So, before buying a new machine, go to the forums for any distro you're considering and ask about it (...anyone using an Acme model Axxxx, etc.).

There are many netbooks and laptops that work fine with many lnux distros.
--
JimC
 
If you have a store nearby with netbooks you're interested in on display, just try some Linux distros on it to see if everything works OK. BTW,Joli OS is one distro that's very similar to Chrome (lots of cloud based apps are preinstalled). You'll find a list of netbook models that it supports here:

http://help.jolicloud.com/entries/20055102-initial-list-of-devices-compatible-with-joli-os

If the netbook or laptop you're considering has newer chipsets, then you'll probably need a Linux distro that's more recent so that drivers are available for all hardware (newer Linux kernels support more new hardware).

Just burn a few distros to CD or DVD and bring them along to a store and see how they work.

Another easy way to test distros is burn them to a USB Flash Drive and boot into them. Here's a Windows app you can use for that purpose, allowing you to burn multiple distros to the same USB drive:

http://www.pendrivelinux.com/multiboot-create-a-multiboot-usb-from-linux/

Note that with some (but not all) Ubuntu based distros, you'll need a hard wired Ethernet Connection to download some propriietary drivers (broadcom b43 wireless chipset drivers, etc.). Some of them already have most proprietary drivers in the .iso. It really depends on the distro (some include non open source drivers, and some don't).

For example, my wife's Dell laptop has a Broadcom Wireless Chipset. Mepis has the driver included (although it does require an install to get access to it). But, most Ubuntu distros require a hard wired ethernet connection to get the needed driver (using a couple of mouse clicks).

--
JimC
 
Thank you for the very useful links Jim. Jolicloud looks very interesting .... I didn't even know it existed !
 
I have a 10.1" Eee pc.. I love the little thing. HD monitor..lol

Only got this one cause I wanted one reasonable price and best buy had a sale, the model is Eee pc 1015 PE. Now they have higher end models.
So check them out. I love Asus
I have a gaming type, photoshop etc, Asus 17 in laptop. Desktop replacement.

I bought a protable usb dvd r/w and a tiny external speaker if I want to get really loud with music and irritate the lousy neighbors..lol J/K I use a tiny usb mouse.. Or I can just use it as it is.
Fun stuff.

The net book is to show off my great photography in a slide show...lol Read my Kindle PC books, get on the net with wifi. This one has only windows 7 starter on it. Runs several hours with images, and quite along time on the net or reading.

I use Faststone image viewer for images already processed in PS and make a slide show and maybe put some gaudy frames, lol..Folks love them. Fastone has a protable version also you can put on a thumbdrive.

I tried a linux Eee pc like Jim spoke of, and it is a nice simple OS..I found myself trying to make it difficult, cause I am used to windoze..lol

Have a look at these, watch some videos..
http://usa.asus.com/Eee/

http://www.jr.com/asus/pe/ASU_1015PEMP17U/#productTabDetails

Not sure what you are really looking for or price. This is a good price. Might be better at best buy. Just a bit rampped up from mine a bit.
Cheers
Have fun
--
Nikon Gal
Best Regards
Gale

http://www.pbase.com/techwish
 
Thank you so much for the infos Gail and Jim. Jolicloud looks like a viable option for me, as it appears to be usable with a lot of devices without a lot of tweaking needed.

I'm not concerned with the price of a netbook, I just want it to work without windows, have a hdmi port, dual core, a better than average screen... preferably matte, and be able stream 720p to the device, and1080p video to a TV or monitor via hdmi. I've been researching them for awhile now... it seems every couple of weeks I find something new just around the corner! .... like the intel atoms all having hdmi support this fall. . . or the chromebooks coming. I'm patient enough to wait for what I really want though. . . I don't have a pressing need to get one asap. When the right one appears, I'll know it and buy it.

I may just stick to using tablets though ..... but my experience with the Xoom was that on certain websites , typing and error correction was severely flawed... to the point of not being able to use those sites. I don't know if it's a Honeycomb issue or just the Xoom. That issue is/was the only reason I'm considering a netbook... for the keyboard. Otherwise it was fine.

Lots of reading to do ! .... cheers
 
..... but my experience with the Xoom was that on certain websites , typing and error correction was severely flawed...
You do know that there are well over half a dozen web browsers to choose from for Android, and even more different on-screen keyboard apps to choose from, so if one particular web browser and/or on-screen keyboard doesn't work, there are plenty of alternatives.

I have 4 web browsers on my Android phone at the moment (I uninstalled a 5th), and 2 keyboards (I uninstalled a 3rd).

The web browsers I have installed currently are:
  • Stock browser
  • Dolphin Browser Mini
  • Opera Mini
  • Skyfire
  • Previously installed: Miren Browser
--
 
Yep, I'm aware of all the browsers for the Xoom, which runs on Honeycomb... and frankly, they all work poorly with it. I've tried all you mentioned and more. They all crash easily, every day. In fact, many apps crash on the Xoom. I nicknamed it the "crashpad". LoL :) I would not recommend it for anyone, and why I didn't keep it. It's unfinished software given to let the public while the kinks are worked out. Now I see why so many choose ipads and prefer windows on so many products, despite their flaws and quirks.

I've not tried another tablet with honeycomb to know it's a Motorola flaw or a OS issue with the quirky typing and crashing apps... not mention sporadic wifi loss at times. It's just not fun to use when you can't type seamlessly and programs are crashing.

I think I've just talked myself into a netbook or ultraportable and use Jolicloud or other linux version. The Lenovo X120e w/AMD Fusion looks great, but it's not mentioned on the jolicloud hardware list. I've tried some laptops out in some stores, and one odd thing I'm finding with many trackpads is the lack of vertical scrolling with the trackpad itself. Dell, Lenovo and Samsung do, HP, Apple, Asus, Acer, and Sony did not. I'm referring to vertical scrolling on the far right margin of the trackpad with a single finger. Even my Adesso usb trackpad I use with my desktop does this, for goodness sake! Who wants to use page up/down buttons all the time ? LoL ... I don't know if you can get that function working on a trackpad under Linux or not, even if it doesn't work on the windows software , anyone know ?
 
I think I've just talked myself into a netbook or ultraportable and use Jolicloud or other linux version. The Lenovo X120e w/AMD Fusion looks great, but it's not mentioned on the jolicloud hardware list.
Keep in mind that Linux is only the underlying kernel. There are hundreds of different Linux distributions and you can't judge one by another. You'll find different included drivers, totally different desktops (KDE 3.x, 4.x; LXDE, XFCE, Gnome, etc. etc.etc.), different configuration utilities, different included applications and loads of other differences between them.

Asking if a Linux distro allows vertical scrolling with a touchpad (without mentioning a specific distro and laptop model) is sort of like asking if a 70-200mm lens is bright enough for indoor sports (without mentioning a specific lens brand/model, aperture range, and what camera model you plan on using it with). ;-)

Most laptops and netbooks are going to use a Synaptics Touchpad (Synaptics is the actual manufacturer of the touchpad). See more about them here:

http://www.synaptics.com/

You'll find their touchpads in laptops from a variety of different manufacturers. You'll see some of the manufacturers that use Synaptics on this links page:

http://www.synaptics.com/support/drivers/oem_support

But, what a given touchpad model and driver combination supports will vary (and not all Linux distros are going to include the same drivers or setup utilities).

That's one reason I suggested burning some of the available linux distros to a USB flash drive, booting into them, and trying them out on demo models at a store. ;-)

Personally, I avoid the distros like Jolicloud and use full featured distros like Mepis instead. I'm using Mepis 11 on my desktop right now, and also have it installed on my wife's laptop (Dell Inspiron 1720 with 1GB of memory). See more about Mepis at http://www.mepis.org

I haven't tested the latest version on my little Eee PC 900 yet. But, Mepis 8.5 works fine on it, so Mepis 11 will probably work just fine on it, too.

With Mepis 8.5 or 11, if you click on System Settings (screwdriver and wrench icon in the system tray), you'll find menus that allow you to customize your desktop. Here's a screen capture from my wife's laptop showing System Settings. I've got where you'll want to click on (input devices) highlighted using a mouse over. But, a different linux distro may not have the same setup screens available.

Downsized Image - Click Expand All to see more



Full Size Image:



Then, click on Touchpad, Touchpad Configuration, Scrolling. You'll see a section for Vertical Scrolling that you can customize as desired. This is the way it defaults with my wife's Dell 1720 laptop (I haven't changed it since installing Mepis 11), and vertical scrolling works fine.

Downsized Image:



Full Size Image:


I've tried some laptops out in some stores, and one odd thing I'm finding with many trackpads is the lack of vertical scrolling with the trackpad itself. Dell, Lenovo and Samsung do, HP, Apple, Asus, Acer, and Sony did not. I'm referring to vertical scrolling on the far right margin of the trackpad with a single finger.
LoL ... I don't know if you can get that function working on a trackpad under Linux or not, even if it doesn't work on the windows software , anyone know ?
You need to take each one on a case by case basis (operating system/laptop combo), using a specific linux distro, with a specific laptop model.

You may find that vertical scrolling works "straight from the box" using a given laptop model with one linux distro, but not another. Or, you may need to tweak config files manually, or you may need to load a different driver (or there may not be a driver that's fully compatible with a new touchpad model). It's not a "black and white" issue (there are many variables involved).

--
JimC
 
LoL ... I don't know if you can get that function working on a trackpad under Linux or not, even if it doesn't work on the windows software , anyone know ?
You need to take each one on a case by case basis (operating system/laptop combo), using a specific linux distro, with a specific laptop model.

You may find that vertical scrolling works "straight from the box" using a given laptop model with one linux distro, but not another. Or, you may need to tweak config files manually, or you may need to load a different driver (or there may not be a driver that's fully compatible with a new touchpad model). It's not a "black and white" issue (there are many variables involved).
Just for giggles, since you seem to like the idea of using JoliCloud, I downloaded JoliCloud 1.2, burned it to a USB Flash drive using Unetbootin (see http://unetbootin.sourceforge.net/ for more info and download links), and booted into it using my Eee PC 900 16G.

Vertical Scrolling works (and is enabled by default). I don't see a lot of setup options for it (other than enabling or disabling scrolling). But, at least it works (verified using Chrome under JoliCloud).

Note that even though there are not a lot of options for it using the Control Center choice in JoliCloud, you could probably edit text files for finer control.

Here's what I see for controlling it in JoliCloud (see the scrolling section). Scrolling is either on or off (with no fine tuning, no separate sections for vertical versus horizontal, etc.). This is only what the setup screen shows (but, you can probably tune other options by editing a text file).

Click Expand All to see more:



Most setup options in Linux distros are controlled via text files. It's just a matter of having a driver that works for the hardware. Some distros just have better hardware detection compared to others, have more drivers installed by default, and have nice GUI based setup menus (that update the text files with the options you select). For example, Mepis 11 has a lot more options for tuning in it's setup screens for a Touchpad compared to what you get with JoliCloud. But, that doesn't mean you couldn't tune one more via a text file in Jolicloud.

For example, see this Arch Linux wiki entry about Synaptics Touchpads and note the entries being made in an xorg.conf file for different features. With some distros, you may need to edit text files to set up a touchpad as desired, even if the correct driver is available for a given touchpad and linux distro. Most Linux distros use a similar config file, even when they have nice setup applications (they just update the text files after you select the desired options).

https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Touchpad_Synaptics

Other distros may have very nice GUI based setup screens (for example, the KDE 4.x based screens that Mepis 11 has included, as shown in my last post to this thread). You have to take them on a case by case basis. ;-)

BTW, I just tried Mepis 11 on my little Eee PC 900 16G, and it works fine, too (as expected, since Mepis 8.5 runs fine on it); as does vertical scrolling (and I see the same options that I saw on my wife's Dell Inspiron 1720 laptop, so that I can fine tune touchpad performance/options as desired without any need to edit text based configuration files).

Again, I'd burn some of the popular Linux distros to USB Flash drives (or CD/DVDs) and bring them to a store with you. That way, you can boot into a few of them and see which ones work OK (without any tweaking needed) on netbooks you're interested in.

--
JimC
 

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