CF vs MS in the A900

[SQLGuy]

I had asked a question on the CyberShot forum about which card would give best performance in my DSC-V3. I didn't really get an answer, but someone did say that Sony had a history of throttling CF throughput vs. Memory Stick in cameras that have both.

Looking around, for the A900, I have not found recent tests comparing CF and MS throughput. DPReview in their review found much better throughput for CF, but they did not seem to be using an HG Memory Stick in their testing... which would have been a lot faster than a regular Pro Duo. https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sonydslra900/13

Wondering if anyone has done any recent testing. Currently I'm using a UDMA 7 CF card in the A900. I also have a 4GB Pro Duo Memory Stick, but I don't have any HG or HX cards to try.

 

[toughluck]

I had asked a question on the CyberShot forum about which card would give best performance in my DSC-V3. I didn't really get an answer, but someone did say that Sony had a history of throttling CF throughput vs. Memory Stick in cameras that have both.

Looking around, for the A900, I have not found recent tests comparing CF and MS throughput. DPReview in their review found much better throughput for CF, but they did not seem to be using an HG Memory Stick in their testing... which would have been a lot faster than a regular Pro Duo. https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sonydslra900/13

Wondering if anyone has done any recent testing. Currently I'm using a UDMA 7 CF card in the A900. I also have a 4GB Pro Duo Memory Stick, but I don't have any HG or HX cards to try.

Sorry to say this, but HG/HX isn't any faster than vanilla Pro Duo cards. Bus speed was increased to 60 MB/s, but write speed didn't increase.

In fact, Memory Stick cards are notoriously slow. Sony lost interest in competing with other standards and deprecated MS way before it became obsolete, so no actually new versions using faster flash memory were made.

The fastest Memory Stick cards that you can get are Micro SD to MS adapters. They come in two variants (single µSD to MS Pro and dual µSD to MS Pro). I actually own both, but never tested how fast they are. I'll admit that they're much faster than actual MS cards. I'm not sure what their bus speeds are, I might check when I have time at home to do it.

 

[SQLGuy]

I had asked a question on the CyberShot forum about which card would give best performance in my DSC-V3. I didn't really get an answer, but someone did say that Sony had a history of throttling CF throughput vs. Memory Stick in cameras that have both.

Looking around, for the A900, I have not found recent tests comparing CF and MS throughput. DPReview in their review found much better throughput for CF, but they did not seem to be using an HG Memory Stick in their testing... which would have been a lot faster than a regular Pro Duo. https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sonydslra900/13

Wondering if anyone has done any recent testing. Currently I'm using a UDMA 7 CF card in the A900. I also have a 4GB Pro Duo Memory Stick, but I don't have any HG or HX cards to try.

Sorry to say this, but HG/HX isn't any faster than vanilla Pro Duo cards. Bus speed was increased to 60 MB/s, but write speed didn't increase.

That's interesting. Wikipedia says, "While only serial and 4-bit parallel interfaces are supported in the Memory Stick PRO format, an 8-bit parallel interface was added to the Memory Stick PRO-HG format. Also, the maximum interface clock frequency was increased from 40 MHz to 60 MHz."

In fact, Memory Stick cards are notoriously slow. Sony lost interest in competing with other standards and deprecated MS way before it became obsolete, so no actually new versions using faster flash memory were made.

There's some throughput tests of specific HG cards here (including write speed):

http://www.hjreggel.net/cardspeed/cs_MSPROHG.html

This site also makes the claim that, "Compared to the Memory Stick PRO, the maximum clock rate is raised from 40MHz to 60MHz, while the bus width is doubled from 4bit to 8bit. This is done by using longer pads of about 6.3mm length instead of about 4.8mm length. The previous four data pads are then split up in a front half and a rear half to double the bus width. These two measures raise the theoretical data rate from 19MB/s to 57MB/s."

And his tests do indeed show most of the HG cards well exceeding 19MB/s for writes.

On the other hand, the fastest one, the Sandisk Extreme III HG, seems to be very sought after... going for over $200 used for an 8GB version.

The fastest Memory Stick cards that you can get are Micro SD to MS adapters. They come in two variants (single µSD to MS Pro and dual µSD to MS Pro). I actually own both, but never tested how fast they are. I'll admit that they're much faster than actual MS cards. I'm not sure what their bus speeds are, I might check when I have time at home to do it.

--
A7R4a with SAL2470Z (G1), 55Z, and a bunch of other adapted lenses (Canon FD, Minolta AF, Canon EF, Leica, Nikon...); A7R converted to IR. Many other old DSLRs.

 

[toughluck]

I had asked a question on the CyberShot forum about which card would give best performance in my DSC-V3. I didn't really get an answer, but someone did say that Sony had a history of throttling CF throughput vs. Memory Stick in cameras that have both.

Looking around, for the A900, I have not found recent tests comparing CF and MS throughput. DPReview in their review found much better throughput for CF, but they did not seem to be using an HG Memory Stick in their testing... which would have been a lot faster than a regular Pro Duo. https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sonydslra900/13

Wondering if anyone has done any recent testing. Currently I'm using a UDMA 7 CF card in the A900. I also have a 4GB Pro Duo Memory Stick, but I don't have any HG or HX cards to try.

Sorry to say this, but HG/HX isn't any faster than vanilla Pro Duo cards. Bus speed was increased to 60 MB/s, but write speed didn't increase.

That's interesting. Wikipedia says, "While only serial and 4-bit parallel interfaces are supported in the Memory Stick PRO format, an 8-bit parallel interface was added to the Memory Stick PRO-HG format. Also, the maximum interface clock frequency was increased from 40 MHz to 60 MHz."

Correct. That's why bus speed went up from 20 MB/s to 60 MB/s.

In fact, Memory Stick cards are notoriously slow. Sony lost interest in competing with other standards and deprecated MS way before it became obsolete, so no actually new versions using faster flash memory were made.

There's some throughput tests of specific HG cards here (including write speed):

http://www.hjreggel.net/cardspeed/cs_MSPROHG.html

This site also makes the claim that, "Compared to the Memory Stick PRO, the maximum clock rate is raised from 40MHz to 60MHz, while the bus width is doubled from 4bit to 8bit. This is done by using longer pads of about 6.3mm length instead of about 4.8mm length. The previous four data pads are then split up in a front half and a rear half to double the bus width. These two measures raise the theoretical data rate from 19MB/s to 57MB/s."

And his tests do indeed show most of the HG cards well exceeding 19MB/s for writes.

I have a Sony Memory Stick PRO-HG HX 8 GB card. (I think "HX" denotes higher capacity due to FAT32, which is analoguous to SDHC).

It's interesting that in the testing, he got those increased speeds. I never did, I suppose it's because I used an external card reader instead of using the card inside the camera (the card reader might have only supported the original PRO 4-bit mode with 20 MHz clock, it might not have had the 4 additional pins required by PRO-HG).

On the other hand, the fastest one, the Sandisk Extreme III HG, seems to be very sought after... going for over $200 used for an 8GB version.

The fastest Memory Stick cards that you can get are Micro SD to MS adapters. They come in two variants (single µSD to MS Pro and dual µSD to MS Pro). I actually own both, but never tested how fast they are. I'll admit that they're much faster than actual MS cards. I'm not sure what their bus speeds are, I might check when I have time at home to do it.

I'm sure the single µSD card adapter only has the 4-bit interface (no double contact pads), so it's not PRO-HG. I found pictures of it upside down (showing the pads) I'm not sure about the dual µSD adapter. I can't find pictures of it showing the contact pads, so I can't say for sure. I do think the manufacturer would indicate that it's a "PRO-HG" adapter if they went through the trouble, but then again copyright/trademark issues might have prevented them from doing so.

 

[SQLGuy]

There's some throughput tests of specific HG cards here (including write speed):

http://www.hjreggel.net/cardspeed/cs_MSPROHG.html

This site also makes the claim that, "Compared to the Memory Stick PRO, the maximum clock rate is raised from 40MHz to 60MHz, while the bus width is doubled from 4bit to 8bit. This is done by using longer pads of about 6.3mm length instead of about 4.8mm length. The previous four data pads are then split up in a front half and a rear half to double the bus width. These two measures raise the theoretical data rate from 19MB/s to 57MB/s."

And his tests do indeed show most of the HG cards well exceeding 19MB/s for writes.

I have a Sony Memory Stick PRO-HG HX 8 GB card. (I think "HX" denotes higher capacity due to FAT32, which is analoguous to SDHC).

It's interesting that in the testing, he got those increased speeds. I never did, I suppose it's because I used an external card reader instead of using the card inside the camera (the card reader might have only supported the original PRO 4-bit mode with 20 MHz clock, it might not have had the 4 additional pins required by PRO-HG).

Note that in his testing, he got higher write speeds for the Sandisk HG cards, and for the Sony HG non-HX cards. The Sony HG HX card was still at regular Pro speeds for writing.
Dyxum has some anecdotal reports that at least imply that the A900 does benefit from the HG write speed of the Sandisk Ultra and Extreme III cards.

Also, I just looked at the A900 schematics, and the Memory Stick interface does have 8 data pins, so it does support HG, even though the user manual is very unclear about that.

 

[QuietOC]

I have a barely used 16 GB Memory Stick Pro-HG Duo card.

 

[toughluck]

There's some throughput tests of specific HG cards here (including write speed):

http://www.hjreggel.net/cardspeed/cs_MSPROHG.html

This site also makes the claim that, "Compared to the Memory Stick PRO, the maximum clock rate is raised from 40MHz to 60MHz, while the bus width is doubled from 4bit to 8bit. This is done by using longer pads of about 6.3mm length instead of about 4.8mm length. The previous four data pads are then split up in a front half and a rear half to double the bus width. These two measures raise the theoretical data rate from 19MB/s to 57MB/s."

And his tests do indeed show most of the HG cards well exceeding 19MB/s for writes.

I have a Sony Memory Stick PRO-HG HX 8 GB card. (I think "HX" denotes higher capacity due to FAT32, which is analoguous to SDHC).

It's interesting that in the testing, he got those increased speeds. I never did, I suppose it's because I used an external card reader instead of using the card inside the camera (the card reader might have only supported the original PRO 4-bit mode with 20 MHz clock, it might not have had the 4 additional pins required by PRO-HG).

Note that in his testing, he got higher write speeds for the Sandisk HG cards, and for the Sony HG non-HX cards. The Sony HG HX card was still at regular Pro speeds for writing.

I noticed that, too. But he also mentioned that he didn't test raw read/write speeds (directly to the card, bypassing the filesystem); that those tests are forthcoming. No link to such tests on the page suggests he didn't do those tests.

Dyxum has some anecdotal reports that at least imply that the A900 does benefit from the HG write speed of the Sandisk Ultra and Extreme III cards.

Also, I just looked at the A900 schematics, and the Memory Stick interface does have 8 data pins, so it does support HG, even though the user manual is very unclear about that.

Yeah, Sony was very silent about PRO-HG cards and how they're supported. I loved the fact that all Sony DSLRs had two memory card slots and it was fairly easy to switch between them (easier than switching out a card in the field). I took advantage of that on a few occasions.

But as somebody once said, Sony's individual departments are more like competing companies forced by the top brass to use common standards, but never actually getting around to using them to their full potential. So it's like one department made the PRO-HG standard and others who were implementing memory sticks got pushed the new standard version upon them, and they just integrated it with their products without thinking much about it.

Then marketing gets hold of a product and completely ignores the features which weren't developed in-house.

Sony evolved over the years and tightened operations a lot, and they're really good at promoting all their strengths now.

 

[SQLGuy]

I have a barely used 16 GB Memory Stick Pro-HG Duo card.

I wish I'd known that a few minutes earlier.

I just ordered a Sandisk Ultra 16GB Pro HG to try vs the UDMA 7 CF in my A900. I will also test it vs the regular Sony Pro Duo 4GB Mark 2 card I have.

 

[SQLGuy]

There's some throughput tests of specific HG cards here (including write speed):

http://www.hjreggel.net/cardspeed/cs_MSPROHG.html

This site also makes the claim that, "Compared to the Memory Stick PRO, the maximum clock rate is raised from 40MHz to 60MHz, while the bus width is doubled from 4bit to 8bit. This is done by using longer pads of about 6.3mm length instead of about 4.8mm length. The previous four data pads are then split up in a front half and a rear half to double the bus width. These two measures raise the theoretical data rate from 19MB/s to 57MB/s."

And his tests do indeed show most of the HG cards well exceeding 19MB/s for writes.

I have a Sony Memory Stick PRO-HG HX 8 GB card. (I think "HX" denotes higher capacity due to FAT32, which is analoguous to SDHC).

It's interesting that in the testing, he got those increased speeds. I never did, I suppose it's because I used an external card reader instead of using the card inside the camera (the card reader might have only supported the original PRO 4-bit mode with 20 MHz clock, it might not have had the 4 additional pins required by PRO-HG).

Note that in his testing, he got higher write speeds for the Sandisk HG cards, and for the Sony HG non-HX cards. The Sony HG HX card was still at regular Pro speeds for writing.

I noticed that, too. But he also mentioned that he didn't test raw read/write speeds (directly to the card, bypassing the filesystem); that those tests are forthcoming. No link to such tests on the page suggests he didn't do those tests.

Dyxum has some anecdotal reports that at least imply that the A900 does benefit from the HG write speed of the Sandisk Ultra and Extreme III cards.

Also, I just looked at the A900 schematics, and the Memory Stick interface does have 8 data pins, so it does support HG, even though the user manual is very unclear about that.

Yeah, Sony was very silent about PRO-HG cards and how they're supported. I loved the fact that all Sony DSLRs had two memory card slots and it was fairly easy to switch between them (easier than switching out a card in the field). I took advantage of that on a few occasions.

But as somebody once said, Sony's individual departments are more like competing companies forced by the top brass to use common standards, but never actually getting around to using them to their full potential. So it's like one department made the PRO-HG standard and others who were implementing memory sticks got pushed the new standard version upon them, and they just integrated it with their products without thinking much about it.

Then marketing gets hold of a product and completely ignores the features which weren't developed in-house.

If you look at the A900 users' manual specifications section, it explicitly mentions Memory Stick Duo Pro-HG as a trademark of Sony, even though they don't say that the camera has a Pro-HG socket.

On the other hand, the A900 box does recommend "for continuous advance" a 300X CF card (45MB/s) or a Pro-HG Memory Stick.

Edit: Also, just noticed, that when you open the memory card door, it does say "Pro/HG Duo" next to the Memory Stick socket.

Sony evolved over the years and tightened operations a lot, and they're really good at promoting all their strengths now.

--
A7R4a with SAL2470Z (G1), 55Z, and a bunch of other adapted lenses (Canon FD, Minolta AF, Canon EF, Leica, Nikon...); A7R converted to IR. Many other old DSLRs.

 

[SQLGuy]

Just did some testing with the new Sandisk Ultra Memory Stick Duo HG Pro.

With the A900 writing RAW + JPG L.

Sony Memory Stick Mark 2 Pro Duo: about 6 seconds to finish writing

Sandisk Ultra Memory Stick: about 3 seconds to finish writing

Sandisk Extreme UDMA 7 Compact Flash: about 2 seconds to finish writing

So, there you have it. A proper HG Pro MS is about twice as fast for write speed in the A900 as a regular Pro, but still slower than Compact Flash.

 

[SQLGuy]

Just out of curiosity, I also tried the Sandisk Ultra Pro HG MS in my a390. The "other" card in there is a Sony U1 SDHC card.

The Memory Stick was about half a second faster to write RAW+JPEG (5.5seconds vs 5.98 seconds). But, even though the a390 is almost two years newer than the a900, and has 10 less megapixels, its write time is still nearly double that of the a900 to that same Memory Stick. I guess the difference here is down to CPU and image processor speed rather than the speed of the storage interface.

 

[tqlla]

I tested my A850. My 8GB Memory Stick pro HG Duo HX is way slower than my Monster 800x 64GB UDMA7 64GB CF card.

Buffer clear time (I ran the camera until it slowed down and took another shot)

• Monster 64GB 800x CF card - 8 seconds
• Sony Memory Stick Pro duo HG HX - 28 seconds
• Sandisk 32GB Extreme V30 micro-sd in MS-duo adapter - 44 seconds

 

[SQLGuy]

I tested my A850. My 8GB Memory Stick pro HG Duo HX is way slower than my Monster 800x 64GB UDMA7 64GB CF card.

Buffer clear time (I ran the camera until it slowed down and took another shot)

• Monster 64GB 800x CF card - 8 seconds
• Sony Memory Stick Pro duo HG HX - 28 seconds
• Sandisk 32GB Extreme V30 micro-sd in MS-duo adapter - 44 seconds

It does seem like Sandisk did something better than Sony regarding write speeds for their Pro HG cards.

Your CF card has the same specs as mine, so I would expect more like 12 seconds for the Sandisk Ultra Pro HG in this test.

 

[tqlla]

I tested my A850. My 8GB Memory Stick pro HG Duo HX is way slower than my Monster 800x 64GB UDMA7 64GB CF card.

Buffer clear time (I ran the camera until it slowed down and took another shot)

• Monster 64GB 800x CF card - 8 seconds
• Sony Memory Stick Pro duo HG HX - 28 seconds
• Sandisk 32GB Extreme V30 micro-sd in MS-duo adapter - 44 seconds

It does seem like Sandisk did something better than Sony regarding write speeds for their Pro HG cards.

Your CF card has the same specs as mine, so I would expect more like 12 seconds for the Sandisk Ultra Pro HG in this test.

I was using CRAW+JPEG. I was testing a complete buffer clear time. So after it slowed down, I took one more image, then started the timer. Turned off the timer when the red light went away.

My A850 only does 3FP, and I am not sure if it has as deep of a buffer as the A900.

 

[tbcass]

Is the speed of either card causing you problems? If not I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[SQLGuy]

Is the speed of either card causing you problems? If not I wouldn't worry about it.

Well different people are interested in different things for different reasons. I was intrigued by a comment someone made on the CyberShot forum claiming that Sony always made the CF slots slower than the MS slots, in cameras that have both. Based on the evidence from my two test units, that does not appear to be true.

And, on the more practical side, sitting around in my house experimenting is not where I'm likely to run into problems with the speed of writing or buffer clearing. When I'm actually using these cameras, it's good to know that I have configured them for the fastest writing that is reasonably available.