Canon R8 dynamic range

TCK555

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Doing some research on this camera and see some reviews/charts listing 14 stops dynamic range. Other charts listing less than 12 stops (on Photons to Photos).

Is the whole process or calculation just "Fuzzy Math", or perhaps they are talking about 2 different things ?

Comments welcome !
 
Doing some research on this camera and see some reviews/charts listing 14 stops dynamic range. Other charts listing less than 12 stops (on Photons to Photos).

Is the whole process or calculation just "Fuzzy Math", or perhaps they are talking about 2 different things ?

Comments welcome !
It’s exactly the same sensor and processor as an R6ii. You won’t be disappointed with the dynamic range, despite what any reviews or analysis suggest. Remember that no display can reproduce much more than 8-10 bits of DR, prints even less. And importantly it retains excellent DR at high ISOs. Don’t fret about the math.
 
Thanks, I saw the R6 II comparison also. Actually like the smaller size of the R8. Similar to my current RP with much better specs.

R8 (refurbished) on Canon web site currently $1099.
 
Doing some research on this camera and see some reviews/charts listing 14 stops dynamic range. Other charts listing less than 12 stops (on Photons to Photos).

Is the whole process or calculation just "Fuzzy Math", or perhaps they are talking about 2 different things ?

Comments welcome !
Photons to Photos has their own way of doing it. The dynamic range is calculated to omit most of the read noise from the specified noise floor. Click on the key on this page, and you will see a table showing a dynamic range of up to 13.9 stops.
 
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I wonder if some of the reviews you've seen were actually talking about bit depth? Then you would see the numbers 14 and 12 depending on the shutter mode you're using (EFCS vs. fully electronic).

You can get two different levels of DR behaviour on the R8; EFCS gives you the best at low ISO while ES is up two 2 stops below that, but the difference dwindles as the ISO goes up. As drsnoopy said you can just use the R6 as your guide:

https://www.photonstophotos.net/Cha...I(EFCS),Canon EOS R6 Mark II(ES),Canon EOS R8

Edit: looks like thrillamozilla nailed it.
 
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Doing some research on this camera and see some reviews/charts listing 14 stops dynamic range. Other charts listing less than 12 stops (on Photons to Photos).

Is the whole process or calculation just "Fuzzy Math", or perhaps they are talking about 2 different things ?

Comments welcome !
Dynamic range of sensors is not measured like the length of a wooden dowel, which has two clear ends. It is more like the useful length of a dowel that is rotting in mud on the bottom end, with no distinct bottom end, but a distinct top end (highlight clipping).

How long the useful dowel is depends on what the dowel is expected to do, just as there are multiple standards that are all called "dynamic range".

Photons2Photos' PDR has a higher-than average standard for acceptable noise than most other DR metrics, placing the bottom of PDR closer to the upper clipping point, yielding lower PDR than other typical DR metrics.

There is also the issue of pixel DR vs image-normalized DR. Pixel DR does not put a limit on image DR, as more and more MPs with the same pixel DR yields higher image DR.
 
Thanks to all !

Likely will buy the R8 as it is an affordable upgrade to my RP on photo and video specs.
 
Thanks to all !

Likely will buy the R8 as it is an affordable upgrade to my RP on photo and video specs.
I have R8 and RP. Haven't touched the RP since. That is a great price at Canon Refurb.

For landscapes at ISO 100 you'll be using EFCS and get good DR
 
Doing some research on this camera and see some reviews/charts listing 14 stops dynamic range. Other charts listing less than 12 stops (on Photons to Photos).

Is the whole process or calculation just "Fuzzy Math", or perhaps they are talking about 2 different things ?

Comments welcome !
It’s exactly the same sensor and processor as an R6ii. You won’t be disappointed with the dynamic range, despite what any reviews or analysis suggest.
I don't think any review suggests a disappointment in the R8's dynamic range. It's not the best among top end cameras but it's actually quite good by any publicly available measurement.
Remember that no display can reproduce much more than 8-10 bits of DR, prints even less.
The DR of the media isn't relevant here because of tone mapping.
 
Doing some research on this camera and see some reviews/charts listing 14 stops dynamic range. Other charts listing less than 12 stops (on Photons to Photos).

Is the whole process or calculation just "Fuzzy Math", or perhaps they are talking about 2 different things ?

Comments welcome !
Dynamic range of sensors is not measured like the length of a wooden dowel, which has two clear ends. It is more like the useful length of a dowel that is rotting in mud on the bottom end, with no distinct bottom end, but a distinct top end (highlight clipping).

How long the useful dowel is depends on what the dowel is expected to do, just as there are multiple standards that are all called "dynamic range".

Photons2Photos' PDR has a higher-than average standard for acceptable noise than most other DR metrics, placing the bottom of PDR closer to the upper clipping point, yielding lower PDR than other typical DR metrics.

There is also the issue of pixel DR vs image-normalized DR. Pixel DR does not put a limit on image DR, as more and more MPs with the same pixel DR yields higher image DR.
Yes, I forgot to mention that Claff's DR measurements are corrected for differences in pixel size. That correction is necessary to compare cameras with different pixel counts. I don't believe most other measurements are corrected.
 
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Thanks to all !

Likely will buy the R8 as it is an affordable upgrade to my RP on photo and video specs.
If 24MP FF is what you want, the R8 is less feature-laden than Canon's other 24MP FF, but for someone using longish lenses with optical image stabilization (with EF lenses, mainly), it completely eliminates any added micro-blur due to IBIS errors, since it has no IBIS. When I bought my R5 and was using the 400/4DO IS II + the EF2xIII, I had less micro-stability than I did in e-shutter mode on the 90D in mechanical shutter/mirror mode. That's with the R5's 137x greater pixel spacing, to boot. I was very frustrated that I couldn't disable the R5 IBIS, which was only causing harm to stability with that lens and TC.
 
There is also the issue of pixel DR vs image-normalized DR. Pixel DR does not put a limit on image DR, as more and more MPs with the same pixel DR yields higher image DR.
Yes, I forgot to mention that Claff's DR measurements are corrected for differences in pixel size. That correction is necessary to compare cameras with different pixel counts. I don't believe most other measurements are corrected.
Bill has said that he doesn't directly use the normalized-MP count approach like DxOMark does, where they measure pixel noise and then do the math of what would happen if you resampled to 8MP. I don't remember the details, but I followed along with Bill's process many years ago, and it basically gave results which could have also been done with a theoretically-normalized image size (height or shorter side, actually, I believe, ignoring width, IIRC).

Normalizing is good and useful if you're only going to give a single noise or DR value and not a frequency spectrum, but personally, I see things as being more complex than the way they are usually treated with single numbers, where a spectrum should exist. In my own adventures in raw image noise measurement, I find that theoretical resampling/binning math does not predict actual noise spectra perfectly, especially with banding noise and low-frequency noise which causes green and magenta/purple large blotches in deep shadows.
 
There is also the issue of pixel DR vs image-normalized DR. Pixel DR does not put a limit on image DR, as more and more MPs with the same pixel DR yields higher image DR.
Yes, I forgot to mention that Claff's DR measurements are corrected for differences in pixel size. That correction is necessary to compare cameras with different pixel counts. I don't believe most other measurements are corrected.
Bill has said that he doesn't directly use the normalized-MP count approach like DxOMark does, where they measure pixel noise and then do the math of what would happen if you resampled to 8MP. I don't remember the details, but I followed along with Bill's process many years ago, and it basically gave results which could have also been done with a theoretically-normalized image size (height or shorter side, actually, I believe, ignoring width, IIRC).
He normalizes for the usual depth-of-field circle of confusion, 18 micrometers or 30 micrometers.
Normalizing is good and useful if you're only going to give a single noise or DR value and not a frequency spectrum, but personally, I see things as being more complex than the way they are usually treated with single numbers, where a spectrum should exist. In my own adventures in raw image noise measurement, I find that theoretical resampling/binning math does not predict actual noise spectra perfectly, especially with banding noise and low-frequency noise which causes green and magenta/purple large blotches in deep shadows.
True enough. Noise is measured as the standard deviation of the pixel values in a uniformly exposed area. The DPR test results show visual results that are helpful if one is careful to interpret the results correctly. The standard deviation does give an incomplete picture of the noise, although in recent cameras it usually agrees pretty well with the DPR results, in my opinion. There is always the caveat that the DPR results may have had noise reduction in some cases.
 

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