Bridge, compact or something else?

[Molti]

Hello everybody,

I had a Sony A7c with some lenses, but sold it eventually because I didn't carry it a lot with me and the fun was gone. I bought the Fuji X100VI and the fun is back, I also take it with me way more. But the thought process when selling was also, that I'll buy a compact/Bridge camera with non-interchangeable lens for specific user cases.

So far I didn't miss a zoom camera, but I just booked a trip to Tromsø in winter. Next to northern lights of Course I want to see whales and Orcas. Maybe also some interesting birds. For that I'll need a zoom camera again (I'm also planning a Safari in Africa and/or India next year). When selling my gear there were rumours about a Canon Powershot V3 with a big zoom and comparably bigsensor. But I didn't really read any more rumours and even if it comes out, who knows if I'll have it in time (my trip is in December) and how expensive it'll be.

So in short: I'm looking for a camera for whale watching and Safari. Hence the focal length is key. Ideally it won't be a huge setup though because that's the reason why I sold my Sony A7C.

Options that I found are:
- Canon Powershot V3?!
- Nikon P950 (or even P1100): very big, bad in low light (norway winter) and maybe not needed
- Canon SX740 HS: I have no idea about this camera
- Sony RX10 IV: super expensive and difficult to get
- Sony E 70-350mm f/4.5-6.3 G OSS since my girlfriend has a Sony A6000

Budget: Ideally not more than 1000€, cheaper is better, used camera preferred (I live in Germany)

So my questions are: Who has experience and can tell me About these cameras, does somebody know a different camera that I didnt think of yet, what do you in general recommend me, will there be another Option released somewhat soon?

Thanks in advance,
Max

 

[sherman_levine]

Lumix FZ2000/FZ2500 (same name, different markets)

https://shop.panasonic.com/products/fz2500-digital-camera-f2-8-4-5-lens before it becomes unavailable.

Here's a two-part review

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/64288303

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/66360652

--

Sherm
Sherms flickr page

P950 album

P900 album RX10iv album
OM1.2 150-600 album

 

[Chris R-UK]

I have done quite a lot of whale, dolphin and orca photography, mainly in Hawaii, British Columbia and Mexico, but none in Norway. I haven't photographed the Northern Lights. I have been on numerous safaris in Southern Africa and one in India.

I have had a look at the whale watching guidelines for Norway and, although there are are limits on the number of boats that watch any group at any one time and there are also limits on speed, it appears that the boats can get as close as 50m. So for some of your shots, especially if you are photographing bubble feeding or other group feeding techniques, you might need a reasonably wide angle lens. On the other hand, if you are waiting 500m away for your boat's turn to get close, you might want a much longer lens (although the photos from that distance are going to be pretty poor anyway). Try searching for whale watching shots from Tromso and see what focal lengths were used.

In your position I would go for a medium zoom range focal length (25-500mm or so), larger sensor bridge camera like the Sony RX10iv, Panasonic FZ1000 or FZ2000/2500 (recommended by Sherman). These cameras would also be useful for safaris in Africa and India. I certainly wouldn't get a Nikon P950 unless you are only really interested in birds on the safaris.

If you want a lens for your girlfriend's A6000, then the Sony 70-350mm would be a useful focal length but take a kit lens as well in case you need a wider angle.

Are you just going to do one whale watching trip in Norway or several? If it is only one, then it probably isn't worth buying a a camera or lens specifically for that alone. Just enjoy the experience and use your phone if you get really close.

 

[Planterz]

Hello everybody,

I had a Sony A7c with some lenses, but sold it eventually because I didn't carry it a lot with me and the fun was gone. I bought the Fuji X100VI and the fun is back, I also take it with me way more. But the thought process when selling was also, that I'll buy a compact/Bridge camera with non-interchangeable lens for specific user cases.

So far I didn't miss a zoom camera, but I just booked a trip to Tromsø in winter. Next to northern lights of Course I want to see whales and Orcas. Maybe also some interesting birds. For that I'll need a zoom camera again (I'm also planning a Safari in Africa and/or India next year). When selling my gear there were rumours about a Canon Powershot V3 with a big zoom and comparably bigsensor. But I didn't really read any more rumours and even if it comes out, who knows if I'll have it in time (my trip is in December) and how expensive it'll be.

So in short: I'm looking for a camera for whale watching and Safari. Hence the focal length is key. Ideally it won't be a huge setup though because that's the reason why I sold my Sony A7C.

I've never heard anyone call the A7C huge before. Maybe you mean the telephoto lenses though.

Options that I found are:
- Canon Powershot V3?!

Hard to recommend a camera that doesn't exist yet, if at all (or at least before your trip). I'd personally prefer having something now to spend the next few months getting a hang of rather than hoping for something better that might not come at all.

- Nikon P950 (or even P1100): very big, bad in low light (norway winter) and maybe not needed

The crazy zoom will let you get pictures you might not have been able to get. Will they be great? Probably not.

- Canon SX740 HS: I have no idea about this camera

Extreme zoom on a camera without a viewfinder is not fun to use at all. Especially if you're on a boat. The Canon SX70 HS would be a better choice. Smaller/lighter than the Nikons, shorter zoom (but still crazy), can't comment on autofocus, but probably similar image quality.

If you want a compact camera look at the Panasonic TZ90 (aka SZ70) or Sony HX95 or HX99. Zoom will still be pretty good, just not as long as the bridge cameras (smaller camera, smaller zoom).

- Sony RX10 IV: super expensive and difficult to get.

I'd be surprised if you can get one within your budget, but if you do, buy it.

- Sony E 70-350mm f/4.5-6.3 G OSS since my girlfriend has a Sony A6000

Good option. a6000 is a bit dated, but autofocus should still be good enough, image quality will be great, especially with the 70-350mm lens, which is stellar.

Budget: Ideally not more than 1000€, cheaper is better, used camera preferred (I live in Germany)

So my questions are: Who has experience and can tell me About these cameras, does somebody know a different camera that I didnt think of yet, what do you in general recommend me, will there be another Option released somewhat soon?

Thanks in advance,
Max

If you can't find the RX10 IV, the III isn't a bad option. Autofocus won't be as good, as the IV has phase detect autofocus, while the III only has contrast detect. The other bridge cameras also lack PDAF, so the Sony will be at least as good (probably better) as those. 1" sensor is substantially bigger than the 1/2.3" sensor of the other bridge cameras, and will give better image quality and less low-light noise. The tradeoff is the shorter (but still great) 600mm max equivalent zoom, but it'll have better image quality up to, and probably a bit beyond that range compared to those cameras.

The "poor man's" RX10 IV is the Panasonic FZ2500 mentioned above. 1" sensor, a bit shorter at 480mm. The FZ1000 II is even cheaper, a bit smaller/lighter, and only goes to 400mm.

Of all these options I think the best is putting the Sony 70-350mm on the a6000, or maybe going with the Tamron 50-400mm. If you don't both need the camera, anyway.

 

[sherman_levine]

Hello everybody,

I had a Sony A7c with some lenses, but sold it eventually because I didn't carry it a lot with me and the fun was gone. I bought the Fuji X100VI and the fun is back, I also take it with me way more. But the thought process when selling was also, that I'll buy a compact/Bridge camera with non-interchangeable lens for specific user cases.

So far I didn't miss a zoom camera, but I just booked a trip to Tromsø in winter. Next to northern lights of Course I want to see whales and Orcas. Maybe also some interesting birds. For that I'll need a zoom camera again (I'm also planning a Safari in Africa and/or India next year). When selling my gear there were rumours about a Canon Powershot V3 with a big zoom and comparably bigsensor. But I didn't really read any more rumours and even if it comes out, who knows if I'll have it in time (my trip is in December) and how expensive it'll be.

So in short: I'm looking for a camera for whale watching and Safari. Hence the focal length is key. Ideally it won't be a huge setup though because that's the reason why I sold my Sony A7C.

I've never heard anyone call the A7C huge before. Maybe you mean the telephoto lenses though.

Options that I found are:
- Canon Powershot V3?!

Hard to recommend a camera that doesn't exist yet, if at all (or at least before your trip). I'd personally prefer having something now to spend the next few months getting a hang of rather than hoping for something better that might not come at all.

- Nikon P950 (or even P1100): very big, bad in low light (norway winter) and maybe not needed

The crazy zoom will let you get pictures you might not have been able to get. Will they be great? Probably not.

- Canon SX740 HS: I have no idea about this camera

Extreme zoom on a camera without a viewfinder is not fun to use at all. Especially if you're on a boat. The Canon SX70 HS would be a better choice. Smaller/lighter than the Nikons, shorter zoom (but still crazy), can't comment on autofocus, but probably similar image quality.

If you want a compact camera look at the Panasonic TZ90 (aka SZ70) or Sony HX95 or HX99. Zoom will still be pretty good, just not as long as the bridge cameras (smaller camera, smaller zoom).

- Sony RX10 IV: super expensive and difficult to get.

I'd be surprised if you can get one within your budget, but if you do, buy it.

- Sony E 70-350mm f/4.5-6.3 G OSS since my girlfriend has a Sony A6000

Good option. a6000 is a bit dated, but autofocus should still be good enough, image quality will be great, especially with the 70-350mm lens, which is stellar.

Budget: Ideally not more than 1000€, cheaper is better, used camera preferred (I live in Germany)

So my questions are: Who has experience and can tell me About these cameras, does somebody know a different camera that I didnt think of yet, what do you in general recommend me, will there be another Option released somewhat soon?

Thanks in advance,
Max

If you can't find the RX10 IV, the III isn't a bad option. Autofocus won't be as good, as the IV has phase detect autofocus, while the III only has contrast detect. The other bridge cameras also lack PDAF, so the Sony will be at least as good (probably better) as those. 1" sensor is substantially bigger than the 1/2.3" sensor of the other bridge cameras, and will give better image quality and less low-light noise. The tradeoff is the shorter (but still great) 600mm max equivalent zoom, but it'll have better image quality up to, and probably a bit beyond that range compared to those cameras.

The "poor man's" RX10 IV is the Panasonic FZ2500 mentioned above. 1" sensor, a bit shorter at 480mm. The FZ1000 II is even cheaper, a bit smaller/lighter, and only goes to 400mm.

Of all these options I think the best is putting the Sony 70-350mm on the a6000, or maybe going with the Tamron 50-400mm. If you don't both need the camera, anyway.

I'd consider the Panasonic implementation of contrast detect autofocus (DFD or Depth from defocus) quite decent. Basically, they calculate the correct focus from the blur at the current focus distance, and jump directly to that position as the first step before final tuning. The cameras which implemented DFD autofocus focused much more quickly than their predecessors which did not.

--

Sherm

Sherms flickr page

P950 album

P900 album RX10iv album
OM1.2 150-600 album

 

[Ryan Schwartz]

To be honest, with Norway winters, I'm not sure smaller sensor bridge cameras are the way to go here. I think I would lean towards an APS-C setup at a minimum for acceptable low light performance.

For northern lights, you want a F2.8 or faster lens. You're going to be disappointed with a bridge camera in this situation or a slower lens.

 

[sherman_levine]

To be honest, with Norway winters, I'm not sure smaller sensor bridge cameras are the way to go here. I think I would lean towards an APS-C setup at a minimum for acceptable low light performance.

If I were going to Norway in winter (presumably for sky and northern lights) I'd just rent a full-frame camera with a wide-angle large-aperture lens, because as I understand it the lights flicker and the best images are with relatively short exposure to avoid blur. It doesn't need to be state of the art because it's not doing high speed imaging or autofocus. I wouldn't try to make that part of my travel package.

--

Sherm

Sherms flickr page

P950 album

P900 album RX10iv album
OM1.2 150-600 album

 

[Ryan Schwartz]

To be honest, with Norway winters, I'm not sure smaller sensor bridge cameras are the way to go here. I think I would lean towards an APS-C setup at a minimum for acceptable low light performance.

If I were going to Norway in winter (presumably for sky and northern lights) I'd just rent a full-frame camera with a wide-angle large-aperture lens, because as I understand it the lights flicker and the best images are with relatively short exposure to avoid blur. It doesn't need to be state of the art because it's not doing high speed imaging or autofocus. I wouldn't try to make that part of my travel package.

I like that idea as well.

 

[sherman_levine]

To be honest, with Norway winters, I'm not sure smaller sensor bridge cameras are the way to go here. I think I would lean towards an APS-C setup at a minimum for acceptable low light performance.

If I were going to Norway in winter (presumably for sky and northern lights) I'd just rent a full-frame camera with a wide-angle large-aperture lens, because as I understand it the lights flicker and the best images are with relatively short exposure to avoid blur. It doesn't need to be state of the art because it's not doing high speed imaging or autofocus. I wouldn't try to make that part of my travel package.

I like that idea as well.

We were in Anchorage a month or so ago and were surprised to see a brick-and-mortar camera shop. Turns out that they rent cameras. There's a similar rental shop in Fairbanks. I'm sure there are others.

--

Sherm

Sherms flickr page

P950 album

P900 album RX10iv album
OM1.2 150-600 album

 

[Molti]

Thank you for your answers so far! I'll try to give some more info, because I feel like the last answers where a bit off topic for my case.

Regarding the northern lights I'm counting on my Fuji X100VI. It has F2.0 and an APS-C sensor. Sure, 16mm and full frame would be better, but I'm sure I'll find some nice areas to shoot also with 35mm. I've seen pictures from people with X100Vs and the looked amazing! Also I'm not a professional photographer and I'm doing this trip with two friends of mine and my wife (sorry I said girlfriend before, we just got married and I'm not used to it yet )... So no time for long sessions. I also like my Fuji a lot, so I don't want to rent something (although its a good and usefull advice for other people!).

I need advice only on the whale watching/birds case. Since I'll do this only when theres some amount of light, I don't care so much about the sensor size. Also when I use it in the coming years in Africa or India I expect enough light.

Regarding other comments:

• Yes, the A7C isn't huge at all (sorry for not clarifying), the telephoto lenses are.
• My wife also has a wide angle zoom with her A6000.
• If I buy the 70-350mm for her camera, we'll have to share it (I'm not a fan of that since we only do two whale watching trips, I would've to use my X100VI while she's using hers).
• I saw a RX10 IV on ebay for 650€, but it looks heavily used... The letters are not visible anymore and some of the rubber came off. I'm in contact with the seller to see how old the camera is.

Thanks for your answers!

 

[Planterz]

Coincidentally, this video just dropped.





It's with the Nikon P1100, not the P950, but I think that makes his tests even more valid because P950 is "only" 2000mm, not 3000mm. It really shows the strengths of the RX10 IV, and also its weaknesses compared to ILCs with a good telephoto lens. I was surprised how well his a6400 with the 70-350mm held up after cropping to match the P1100's 3000mm zoom. Makes me glad I went with the a6700 and 70-350mm instead of a bridge camera.