Am i excepting to much from m4/3?

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Hello evrevery,

A few weeks back i posted some of my photos of a recent airwhow and shared some of my thoughts about tge gear i was using. I'm not satisfied with the response i got. Not exatlye thth it was wrong just that i probebly could have worded it better. So bacically i was using the panasonic g7 and the 100-300 mk2. I was happy with the results i manged to get but i want to get even better shots next time. My problem is is that i would love to stay with m4/3 systems but I'M not sure that it would be able to get me the results i want. This is becouse i have a very small budget. So it is not possible for me to go and buy a em1 mk2 with the p100-400mm as much as i would like to. So my question is would si.ething like the gx9 em5 2 gh4 or any other m4/3 camera or lens system that will be able to get me better results than my current setup? Or am i better moving on to something better like a nikon d5500 with sigma 150-600? I might mention that i i will always buy used. I might also mention that i really really like m4)3for there exelent all in one capability and versatility. I have also looked at other cameras like fuji xt2 but fuji only do one super telephoto but it's very expensive.

Any of your help would be greatly appreciated.

In life, as in chess, forethought wins.
 
we can't respond without knowing details of your results and techniques used.
 
For aviation shots on a budget, you might be better off with the Nikon. If you want to try to stick to m4/3, an old EM1 Mark i should be fine as well.
 
Hello evrevery,

A few weeks back i posted some of my photos of a recent airwhow and shared some of my thoughts about tge gear i was using. I'm not satisfied with the response i got. Not exatlye thth it was wrong just that i probebly could have worded it better. So bacically i was using the panasonic g7 and the 100-300 mk2. I was happy with the results i manged to get but i want to get even better shots next time. My problem is is that i would love to stay with m4/3 systems but I'M not sure that it would be able to get me the results i want. This is becouse i have a very small budget. So it is not possible for me to go and buy a em1 mk2 with the p100-400mm as much as i would like to. So my question is would si.ething like the gx9 em5 2 gh4 or any other m4/3 camera or lens system that will be able to get me better results than my current setup? Or am i better moving on to something better like a nikon d5500 with sigma 150-600? I might mention that i i will always buy used. I might also mention that i really really like m4)3for there exelent all in one capability and versatility. I have also looked at other cameras like fuji xt2 but fuji only do one super telephoto but it's very expensive.

Any of your help would be greatly appreciated.

In life, as in chess, forethought wins.
You had good response last time and a lot of that still applies, notably use the 100-300 on the best aperture probably F7.1 and F8 and expect to do some editing. You said last time that the final set of pictures had had no editing yet those pictures were pretty good if you had maximised their quality with a bit of editing.

The G7 is perfectly capable of taking decent airshow pics as is the 100-300 Mk 2 which you sort of proved with the pictures you posted. You may get a little better with the Nikon and sigma although it isn't going to jump out at you as such and you still have things such as atmospheric conditions to deal with and that combination is going to cost you as well as losing you some of the benefits of m4/3s.

I think you should stay with what you have got and as said so many times here, practice, practice, practice. You are much closer to getting it right than some correspondents and the time to be looking to upgrade will be when you have got it as good as possible with your existing kit and at the moment you still have a little way to go.
 
There is nothing wrong with the G7 and the 100-300 and although obviously this is a compromise compared to $10,000 gear it can still work well.

Without meaning to be impolite, the G7 and 100-300 probably outperforms most people's capabilities and probably yours - especially if new to this, I for sure know that applies to me.

However, links and photos would have been nice, as well as some better clarification as to what YOU perceive to be the shortcomings.

Also bear in mind that a lot of aviation photos are boring as hell, it takes a lot of practice to capture the right moments, composition and light. Gear can't help with that.
 
I looked again at your thread from 3 months ago and the shots are really pretty good. You could win a little bit of punch by stopping the lens down to f/6.3 or f/7.1 and making sure, if it isn't already, that your noise filter setting is at -5. A bit of post-processing would definitely help also. After that, the next step would be to exchange your G7 for a G80; the used price has come down nicely.

--
Mark
 
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Or a G9 ... with 1.2 firmware

G9 with 1.1 firmware shot a whole bunch of nice shots at Stewart Airport, NY Airshow. I'm going to pick one and post it here:

I think this is a B25. This is an OOC JPEG. Shot with the 100-300 II.
I think this is a B25. This is an OOC JPEG. Shot with the 100-300 II.

One of the interesting compromises at an airshow is that you want to shoot at a shutter speed that shows rotation of the propellers, does not freeze them. If I had an little ND filter I might have used it, instead I shot this and many others at f/11.

Panning to follow a moving aircraft is a skill. Faster shutter speed may hide panning errors, but then again it will freeze the propellers and make it look like the plane has stalled and is about to fall out of the sky. Jets don't have this issue.

--
js
 
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Hello evrevery,

A few weeks back i posted some of my photos of a recent airwhow and shared some of my thoughts about tge gear i was using. I'm not satisfied with the response i got. Not exatlye thth it was wrong just that i probebly could have worded it better. So bacically i was using the panasonic g7 and the 100-300 mk2. I was happy with the results i manged to get but i want to get even better shots next time. My problem is is that i would love to stay with m4/3 systems but I'M not sure that it would be able to get me the results i want. This is becouse i have a very small budget. So it is not possible for me to go and buy a em1 mk2 with the p100-400mm as much as i would like to. So my question is would si.ething like the gx9 em5 2 gh4 or any other m4/3 camera or lens system that will be able to get me better results than my current setup? Or am i better moving on to something better like a nikon d5500 with sigma 150-600? I might mention that i i will always buy used. I might also mention that i really really like m4)3for there exelent all in one capability and versatility. I have also looked at other cameras like fuji xt2 but fuji only do one super telephoto but it's very expensive.

Any of your help would be greatly appreciated.

In life, as in chess, forethought wins.
So I have read thru this thread and your other thread with the airshow photos. I get exactly what you are saying. While most of them are "sharp", none of them have that final bit of WoW to them. They just seem to lack that final little bit of punch to bring out the little details. Below are a few of my airshow shots that I think demonstrate that final bit of punch that comes from using a high quality lens. All photos taken with the original EM1, first 3 are with the Olympus ZD 150mm f2.0 and the last 2 images with the Olympus MZ 300mm f4.0 Pro (last image with the MC-14). Also, most of these images have no crop, a couple have no more than a 150px crop and one is actually larger than original photo (image filled the frame so I added canvas and sky using content aware to make a good composition).


This is the one I added canvas to.


No crop


~150px crop


~100px crop


no crop

I shoot 1 airshow a year (missed it this year) and have found my ZD 150mm f2.0 to be the perfect focal length (without any TC's) for this air show. Last year was my first time with the MZ 300mm f4.0 Pro and I didn't use it much. I much prefer the formation shots and the 300/4 is just a lot of reach. It was good for those isolation of a single aircraft shots above.

I get what you are saying about the 100-300...……………….

Now...………………….

You mention getting a Nikon and the Sigma 150-600 but you don't specify which version. Honestly, the "C" version is probably on par with your 100-300 and I don't really think you would gain much if anything. The "S" version is a different story, but it is also more expensive. After looking at a lot of images from these lenses as well as looking at various testing sites I personally believe the "C" version is on par with the m4/3 xxx-300 lenses and the "S" version to equal the Panny 100-400. The Panny 100-300mk2 has a distinct advantage over the "C" version in it's weather sealing, as well as over the Olympus 75-300.

My understanding is that all the xxx-300 lenses in the m4/3 world are more or less equal in IQ. So your lens is the same as my Olympus 75-300 and as others and myself have learned these lenses are much better stopped down a full stop. You shot wide-open in your images and they would have gained a little more sharpness if stopped down. As others have pointed out this series of lenses tends to be soft at the long end. I found that I got better results if I stayed between 270mm and 280mm.

If you want to stay in the m3/4 world and get better images your choices are limited. You can either get one of the better and more expensive lenses like the Panny 100-400, 50-200, 200 or the Olympus 40-150 or 300/4 (which may also require one of the various TC's to get the reach wanted).

Or...……………………...

You could pick up a used original EM1 and pair it with the Olympus ZD 50-200 SWD and the EC-14. I recently started this thread where I compared the Olympus 75-300, 50-200 SWD w/ EC-14 and 300/4. The SWD slots in between the two lenses with respect to IQ and is not far behind the 150/2 based on this thread where I compared those to lenses. Yes, focus is a bit slower on the 4/3 lenses than the m4/3...………...but I have had no problem shooting airshows with my 150/2 which I find focuses basically the same as the 50-200 SWD. I do only recommend the SWD version because having that instant access to manual focus when in CAF is a life saver at times.

Just my 2 pennies...………..

Phocal

Oh...……………..

One last thing...……………...

I find the xxx-300 lenses to be to light for their focal length. While the size and weight are great for carrying around the lens, it is really a detriment to handholding. You need some weight to counteract those small movements that come from say breathing. With the light lens even a small shallow breath can cause the camera to move, where a heavier lens takes a larger and deeper breath to get any movement in the camera. So when using these light lenses with extreme reach you have to pay very close attention to your shooting technique. With my 150/2 w/ EC-20 (combo I used a lot before getting the 300/4) I don't have to really concentrate on technique until I get down in shutter speed. With my 75-300 it seems I always have to concentrate on it, even at faster shutter speeds. Now the 300/4 with dual IS is just stupid good and blows me away with how low I can actually shoot that combo.
 

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Good to see more skill at work.
 
Hi Phocal!


That's very interesting what you're saying about the 50-200. I guess you are using a


EM-1 > MMF Adapter > Teleconverter > Lens combo?


I know the SWD is weather sealed, but what about the whole combo? And how fast does it focus compared to the 75-300?

Thanks!
 
Airshows are fun. I mostly shoot camcorder for the moving aircraft, and LX100 for the ground shots. I get stellar video and photo results when the weather is good, and the sunsets are dynamic. Thus, if you're not happy with MFT, it's best to get a camera and lens that you like, and that get you the results you want. No need to settle for anything that is not up to par with your desires.

Also, you should try out other systems just to see how they differ. That is the only way you will know truly what you want, and know what those cameras can do, or can't.


Good luck in your venture for new camera. It's a exciting time to get the new Fuji X-T3. I hear it has face detection AF, and amazing tracking ability with AF. Give it a go, and see for yourself if that will get you the best shots possible.
 
And how fast does it focus compared to the 75-300?

Thanks!
To answer my own question, I found this video (in Italian), testing single-AF on an EM-1. Seems about as quick as the 75-300.



Oh, and I also checked the specs for the MMF 4/3 to MFT adapter. It's weather-sealed. So is the EC-14. Of course, one has to factor the price of the MMF and the price of the EC-14 in when comparing the SWD to other options. It doesn't look like that great of a bargain anymore at that point. I think this route will only make sense for people who have other 4/3 gear.
 
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We live in the best digital camera time ever!!!

The choice is huge, especially for those ready to step into the second hand market. I wrote a small article on my blog talking about buying and selling 2nd hand cameras, you welcome to go read it. Why?

Well with a little care you can star buying and selling gear and in the process earn a little extra money and get the chance to test cameras for yourself.

Example. With Canon and Nikon stepping into the FF mirrorless market you will see prices on DSLR cameras fall like a huge big stone. Also Sony are pushing out way to many new models meaning their great products of yesterday become affordable like never before... What a fun time to live in.

For now....my advice is master your camera as is. It's a great set-up, get into image editing, how to master your camera. Go see some of the awesome work others did with this same set-up. When you get there think about upgrading. A better body will not improve your results....

Best
 
When I am planning on doing some dedicated bird or other wildlife photography - where that is the main purpose of my outing - I use a Tamron 150-600 with a Canon 700D (not the best body by any means, but I just needed something I could get cheaply at the time).

When I am going out hiking and figure I might come across some wildlife, I use an OM-D E-M1 mki and Olympus 75-300.

The Tamron/Canon setup is much bigger, bulkier and heavier (though that is all in the lens; the Canon is the lightest ILC I own). But carrying the Tamron by the tripod mount handle I can walk with it all day. I just can't easily put it in a backpack or use it alongside a camera with a wider angle lens and it isn't ideal if I have to scramble over rocks or do any bushbashing. The Olympus setup is of course much, much more compact.

Both get almost equally good shots, but I do find the larger sensor is a bit more detailed, cleaner and less noisy. The Tamron has more reach (900mm equivalent field of view vs 600mm) so is simply better in that regard. I also find the DSLR much more effective, reliable and accurate to focus, even though the Canon only has a small number of focus points. With the Tamron/Canon I get shots in focus probably 90% of the time (I had an earlier Tamron/Nikon D7000 setup and that was 95%+). With the Olympus it is lower and much lower if there is foliage and so on around.

If I had to choose just one system, I would go for the Tamron/Canon and accept not being able to take it to places I can take the smaller system. Fortunately, through buying everything at second hand bargain prices, I can afford the best of both worlds.
 
And how fast does it focus compared to the 75-300?

Thanks!
To answer my own question, I found this video (in Italian), testing single-AF on an EM-1. Seems about as quick as the 75-300.
Honestly, the 4/3 lenses are just a touch slower to focus than m4/3 lenses. That said, they are just as fast as any of the lenses I used with my Canon gear and I have never had a time I felt like it was a detriment.

Oh, and I also checked the specs for the MMF 4/3 to MFT adapter. It's weather-sealed. So is the EC-14.
Yes, if you get an MMF-3 the entire setup is weather sealed.
Of course, one has to factor the price of the MMF and the price of the EC-14 in when comparing the SWD to other options. It doesn't look like that great of a bargain anymore at that point.
Really?
  • 50-200 SWD - $450
  • EC-14 - $175
  • MMF-3 - $160 new (can find cheaper used)
The prices above for the lens and EC-14 are from KEH, you can find cheaper on eBay. At the moment KEH/B&H/Adorama don't have an MMF-3 but you can find them down around $100 used normally. Using the prices above you are at $785 and I bet if one spends a month looking you can easily get the entire setup for $600-$650. The only lens that will provide similar focal range when put on an APSC camera while still providing weather sealing is the Canon 100-400 mk2, which is around $1500 used. Yes there are other options close in price like the Sigma/Tamron 100-400 but they are not weather sealed. You could also go with one of the 150-600 and get more reach but the only the higher end models like the Sigma "Sport" are weather sealed and a lot more expensive. The "C" version is also a step down in IQ from the 50-200, better off just using one of the xxx-300 m4/3 lenses. You can also buy the pieces as you find them, so you don't need to spend all the money at once, especially good for someone looking for great IQ and reach on a budget. You can also get a cheap 3rd party adapter (with no weather sealing) for $25 initially and worry about the weather sealed MMF-3 later.

You can also pick up the EC-20 and have what I call a poor mans 100-400. It ends up a touch slower aperture than the Panny 100-400 but still provides reasonably good IQ.

[ATTACH alt="I have this printed 20" long on a metallic canvas and it looks amazing "]media_3820635[/ATTACH]
I have this printed 20" long on a metallic canvas and it looks amazing

With the TC's you end up with basically 3 capable lenses that will provide great IQ for under $800. Granted with the EC-20 it's not the best at action because the auto focus is a tad slow, but it will still work for airshows. Birds in flight may be a stretch but I did use the combo at an airshow just to test it out, will have to dig out those images. I have this Flickr album with images using the EC-20.
I think this route will only make sense for people who have other 4/3 gear.
I switched from Canon (FF & APSC) to Olympus. Initially I picked up an EM5 to play around with using an FD 400mm f4.5 lens. I used that lens on my EM5 and Fuji XE-1 side by side for about 6 months while I evaluated both systems. Back then Fuji had no telephoto lenses and nothing on the horizon and it was just before the XT-1 was announced...……….so no weather sealed options either. After a lot of thought I went with Olympus because the IQ was there and I have always loved Olympus glass (the SHG lenses are to die for). When I decided to leave Canon and go all in I picked up an EM1 and 50-200 SWD with the EC-14 and couldn't have been happier. I was shooting a lot sports (still do) and needed a zoom but felt the 40-150 Pro was just a tad short for what I wanted. I still have no desire to replace my SWD with the 40-150 Pro, perfectly happy with it's performance and reach.

I have also met a few others who went the 4/3 lens route when switching to m4/3 because the IQ is so good with those lenses and the price makes switching systems a lot easier.

I really do believe that from an IQ and reach perspective the 50-200 is bargain way to achieve that. You can slowly buy the pieces (even starting with a dirt cheap adapter) to build up a kit that will give you an effective focal range of 100-800mm for under $800 that is also weather sealed. Paired with an inexpensive used EM1 and you have a great kit that is capable of amazing images.

I will end with what is probably my favorite image from my 50-200 SWD to date



Regards,

Phocal
 

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Very good points all around, especially about having a fully weather-sealed kit, which seems hard to achieve at this price point with other brands.


The prices for the teleconverter and the adapter were quite a bit higher on the UK used market when I checked yesterday, but I'm sure with a bit of patience, one can find a better price.

About IQ. Well, not to flatter you too much, but you are by far one of the most skilled photographers around here. I'm sure you'd produce fantastic images with a point-and-shoot. You also get really close to your subjects and from what I can see from your pictures, you get a ton of lovely Australian light. I'm not in a position to say what the SWD would achieve in the hands of a less-skilled photographer in worse light and at greater distances. That also applies to more expensive gear, of course. What would you say, how does the SWD perform at greater distances? I find the 75-300 rather lacking in this regard.
 
Or buy a used or refurbished (with warranty if you can find one) Panny 100-400.
 
Or buy a used or refurbished (with warranty if you can find one) Panny 100-400.
I thought all camera warranties were non transferable
 

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