Adapted Manual Lens Problem

[Marcus Stormwind]

Hey guys, I just started playing around with my Super-Takumar 50mm f/1.4 lens on the OM-D E-M10. I've had it for awhile but only just started using it more. I've noticed a funny thing in terms of exposure compensation and shutter speed control.

Basically, when I have the camera set to Manual, the shutter dial won't change anything at times. I would turn it this way and that and the number would move for a split second and then return to the way it was. It's not always like this and I haven't quite worked out what is making it work and what is not. Sometimes taking a picture would affect it but then again, sometimes not. I tried it 5 minutes ago for example and it just won't budge but now, it's working perfectly. This never happens on my new lenses though.

When I set the camera to Shutter Priority, then the shutter dial is always fine but I noticed that the exposure compensation dial doesn't seem to make a difference. Is this normal? I understand that there's no way for the camera to communicate with a manual lens like this (unless you have a special adapter which I do not) but I was under the impression that exposure compensation was performed inside the camera?

Lastly, I was just wondering if there's a difference to using S mode and M mode with an old manual lens like this? It seems all I can do is control shutter speed on both settings so it doesn't really make any difference right? Thanks for the help!

 

[Skeeterbytes]

Sounds buggy. Shutter dial should function in both modes and compensation should work in S mode.

Good sleuthing,

Rick

ETA, auto-ISO functions in both modes, which can be a plus or minus, depending on what you're doing.

--
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[Bob657]

I agree, you might try pulling the battery for 24 hours.

 

[HornOUBet]

So when you set it to shutter priority and turn the exposure compensation dial does the exposure scale in the viewfinder indicate it is changing the exposure values but the viewfinder is compensating to keep the image bright enough for viewing? Or is the exposure scale not changing?


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[baxters]

In M-mode, nothing you do with the lens can affect the shutter speed. That is a parameter you must set yourself. Are you saying that you cannot rotate the appropriate dial to make the shutter speed change?

 

[Tom Caldwell]

I worked out that the Panasonic GM1 behaved differently depending upon whether it had an oem M4/3 lens, a M4/3 contacts but MF third party lens, or a pure MF lens in use. Shutter priority was the oddest.

I went to the trouble of making up a little spreadsheet to detail the differences as they were quite complex.

I forget the detail but if a sensible answer does not appear then I might look for the spreadsheet out of interest.

 

[apathyman]

I have the E-M10 and the same Super Tak 50 1.4.

I just tried this combination in Manual mode but can't reproduce your problem. The shutter speed dial adjusts the speed up and down without any issues.

I don't believe there's any point in using Shutter Priority with adapted lenses. With shutter priority, the camera wants to adjust the lens aperture to get a correct exposure. With the adapted lens it has no way of doing that.

S mode and M mode are different with this camera/lens combination. On my camera, setting Shutter Priority makes it impossible to get a correct exposure because the display, histogram and exposure compensation indicator don't change as the shutter speed is adjusted. In this situation getting a correct exposure is total guesswork. In M mode you can adjust the shutter speed and/or aperture and see the effect on the exposure indicator and histogram.

Cheers

Brian

 

[rodriguezPhoto]

I don't have the same camera so I can't comment specifically on the EM-10, however I do use adapted lenses (OM and M42) on my G3. When using them, however, I always set the camera to the A (aperture priority) mode, select my f-stop on the lens and let the camera decide the shutter speed for me. If I don't like what it offers up then I adjust the f-stop on the lens, or maybe the ISO. This seems to work just fine for me. No problems with the camera properly adjusting the shutter speed setting. One thing to note however is that the Super-Takumar lenses have an Auto (A) - Manual (M) slider on them. If set to A they remain wide open, regardless of the f-stop setting. There is a pin on the back of the lens that is pushed in at the time of exposure. This stops it down to the chosen f-stop. This of course only works on a 35mm camera. The M setting will always stop the lens down. I think M42 adapters are designed to push the pin in when they are attached, so the lens will be stopped down if in A mode, but you'll want to check to be sure. If it isn't getting pushed in then you'll want to set the lens to M, otherwise with it always wide open, the camera won't offer any other shutter speed settings.

 

[apathyman]

I don't have the same camera so I can't comment specifically on the EM-10, however I do use adapted lenses (OM and M42) on my G3. When using them, however, I always set the camera to the A (aperture priority) mode, select my f-stop on the lens and let the camera decide the shutter speed for me. If I don't like what it offers up then I adjust the f-stop on the lens, or maybe the ISO. This seems to work just fine for me. No problems with the camera properly adjusting the shutter speed setting. One thing to note however is that the Super-Takumar lenses have an Auto (A) - Manual (M) slider on them. If set to A they remain wide open, regardless of the f-stop setting. There is a pin on the back of the lens that is pushed in at the time of exposure. This stops it down to the chosen f-stop. This of course only works on a 35mm camera. The M setting will always stop the lens down. I think M42 adapters are designed to push the pin in when they are attached, so the lens will be stopped down if in A mode, but you'll want to check to be sure. If it isn't getting pushed in then you'll want to set the lens to M, otherwise with it always wide open, the camera won't offer any other shutter speed settings.

Some (most?) M42 adapters have a ledge behind the screw threads that depresses the pin on the lens as the lens is screwed on to the adapter. Others, however don't have that ledge.

If the lens being used has an Auto/Manual switch, either type is suitable (provided you remember to set the switch on Manual). If there is no Auto/Manual switch on the lens, the second type will not allow the lens aperture to be stopped down.

Cheers

Brian

 

[Marcus Stormwind]

So when you set it to shutter priority and turn the exposure compensation dial does the exposure scale in the viewfinder indicate it is changing the exposure values but the viewfinder is compensating to keep the image bright enough for viewing? Or is the exposure scale not changing?

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In the viewfinder, both the exposure values and the image is changing, but after taking the picture, both appear to look the same.

 

[Marcus Stormwind]

In M-mode, nothing you do with the lens can affect the shutter speed. That is a parameter you must set yourself. Are you saying that you cannot rotate the appropriate dial to make the shutter speed change?

Yes. The shutter speed would appear to "want" to change but only for a split second and then bounces back to what it was before.

 

[Marcus Stormwind]

I just tried this combination in Manual mode but can't reproduce your problem. The shutter speed dial adjusts the speed up and down without any issues.

I'm just wondering though, can you try setting it to S mode and see if exposure compensation makes any difference to the end result? For me, it makes a difference in the viewfinder (both image and value number) but the end result appears the same.

 

[Marcus Stormwind]

I don't have the same camera so I can't comment specifically on the EM-10, however I do use adapted lenses (OM and M42) on my G3. When using them, however, I always set the camera to the A (aperture priority) mode, select my f-stop on the lens and let the camera decide the shutter speed for me. If I don't like what it offers up then I adjust the f-stop on the lens, or maybe the ISO. This seems to work just fine for me. No problems with the camera properly adjusting the shutter speed setting. One thing to note however is that the Super-Takumar lenses have an Auto (A) - Manual (M) slider on them. If set to A they remain wide open, regardless of the f-stop setting. There is a pin on the back of the lens that is pushed in at the time of exposure. This stops it down to the chosen f-stop. This of course only works on a 35mm camera. The M setting will always stop the lens down. I think M42 adapters are designed to push the pin in when they are attached, so the lens will be stopped down if in A mode, but you'll want to check to be sure. If it isn't getting pushed in then you'll want to set the lens to M, otherwise with it always wide open, the camera won't offer any other shutter speed settings.

Ridiculously noobie question here but to set it on manual, you push the slider to cover up the word "Auto" to expose the letters "Man" right? I'm guessing pushing the slider on top of either setting does not equal activating said setting?

Anyway, when have Man exposed, I have full control of the aperture and nothing appears to change when I press the shutter. When it's on Auto, aperture no longer changes, even when pressing shutter button.

 

[Marcus Stormwind]

Sounds buggy. Shutter dial should function in both modes and compensation should work in S mode.

Good sleuthing,

Rick

ETA, auto-ISO functions in both modes, which can be a plus or minus, depending on what you're doing.

 

[Paul De Bra]

In manual mode and in shutter-priority mode you can set the shutter speed to a fixed value. Exposure compensation in that case would normally try to then alter the aperture but in a fully manual lens it cannot do that. So dialing EV does nothing. I'm not sure what you were expecting EV to do?

Regarding the shutter dial in manual mode not doing anything, are you sure you are changing the shutter dial? You can configure the camera so that a different dial does different things. Are you not by accident turning the aperture dial instead?

--
Enjoying the Olympus OM-D E-M5.
Public pictures at http://debra.zenfolio.com/.

 

[apathyman]

I just tried this combination in Manual mode but can't reproduce your problem. The shutter speed dial adjusts the speed up and down without any issues.

I'm just wondering though, can you try setting it to S mode and see if exposure compensation makes any difference to the end result? For me, it makes a difference in the viewfinder (both image and value number) but the end result appears the same.

Yes, that's exactly what happens. The camera thinks it is adjusting the aperture as you turn the Exposure Compensation dial but because it can't actually adjust the aperture with an adapted lens, the actual exposure doesn't change.

Using S mode makes no sense in this situation.

Cheers

Brian

 

[apathyman]

I don't have the same camera so I can't comment specifically on the EM-10, however I do use adapted lenses (OM and M42) on my G3. When using them, however, I always set the camera to the A (aperture priority) mode, select my f-stop on the lens and let the camera decide the shutter speed for me. If I don't like what it offers up then I adjust the f-stop on the lens, or maybe the ISO. This seems to work just fine for me. No problems with the camera properly adjusting the shutter speed setting. One thing to note however is that the Super-Takumar lenses have an Auto (A) - Manual (M) slider on them. If set to A they remain wide open, regardless of the f-stop setting. There is a pin on the back of the lens that is pushed in at the time of exposure. This stops it down to the chosen f-stop. This of course only works on a 35mm camera. The M setting will always stop the lens down. I think M42 adapters are designed to push the pin in when they are attached, so the lens will be stopped down if in A mode, but you'll want to check to be sure. If it isn't getting pushed in then you'll want to set the lens to M, otherwise with it always wide open, the camera won't offer any other shutter speed settings.

Ridiculously noobie question here but to set it on manual, you push the slider to cover up the word "Auto" to expose the letters "Man" right? I'm guessing pushing the slider on top of either setting does not equal activating said setting?

Anyway, when have Man exposed, I have full control of the aperture and nothing appears to change when I press the shutter. When it's on Auto, aperture no longer changes, even when pressing shutter button.

Yes, exposing the Man letters disengages the pin on the back of the lens and allows the lens to be stopped down.

If you can't adjust the aperture when the switch is on Auto, you have one of the adapters without the 'ledge' behind the screw threads, so you'll need to ensure you set the switch on Man (unless you want to shoot with the lens fully open).

Pressing the shutter button has absolutely no effect on the lens aperture with adapted lenses.

Cheers

Brian

 

[Marcus Stormwind]

If you can't adjust the aperture when the switch is on Auto, you have one of the adapters without the 'ledge' behind the screw threads, so you'll need to ensure you set the switch on Man (unless you want to shoot with the lens fully open).

Thanks for the help! But this is actually something I never fully understood when researching which adapter to get. So what exactly is the difference between setting it on Manual and Auto if the adapter has this "ledge"? I mean, on Manual, you have full control of the aperture and on Auto, with the pin pushed in, the aperture remains wide open and only stops down to the selected f-stop during exposure but this would only work on a 35mm camera. So what's the point of having an adapter with the ledge?

 

[Marcus Stormwind]

In manual mode and in shutter-priority mode you can set the shutter speed to a fixed value. Exposure compensation in that case would normally try to then alter the aperture but in a fully manual lens it cannot do that. So dialing EV does nothing. I'm not sure what you were expecting EV to do?

Regarding the shutter dial in manual mode not doing anything, are you sure you are changing the shutter dial? You can configure the camera so that a different dial does different things. Are you not by accident turning the aperture dial instead?

--
Enjoying the Olympus OM-D E-M5.
Public pictures at http://debra.zenfolio.com/.

I never quite understood what exposure compensation is really doing. I didn't know that in Shutter Priority mode, when adjusting exposure compensation, it was in fact changing the aperture. So I guess in Aperture Priority mode, adjusting exposure compensation would just be changing the shutter speed then? So what's the point of having the two modes when you have the same amount of access to both shutter and aperture?

As for the shutter dial in manual mode, I am certain that I am turning the shutter dial. I checked in the settings several times to make sure. I even turned the other dial and there still wasn't any difference. And it does seem like a bug because when turning the shutter dial, I can see in the viewfinder that it's registering my turns because the number would kind of flick, but still remain on the same number. But again, it's only sometimes. Right now for example, I can't replicate the bug at all.

 

[Pete Berry]

In manual mode and in shutter-priority mode you can set the shutter speed to a fixed value. Exposure compensation in that case would normally try to then alter the aperture but in a fully manual lens it cannot do that. So dialing EV does nothing. I'm not sure what you were expecting EV to do?

Regarding the shutter dial in manual mode not doing anything, are you sure you are changing the shutter dial? You can configure the camera so that a different dial does different things. Are you not by accident turning the aperture dial instead?

--
Enjoying the Olympus OM-D E-M5.
Public pictures at http://debra.zenfolio.com/.

I never quite understood what exposure compensation is really doing. I didn't know that in Shutter Priority mode, when adjusting exposure compensation, it was in fact changing the aperture. So I guess in Aperture Priority mode, adjusting exposure compensation would just be changing the shutter speed then? So what's the point of having the two modes when you have the same amount of access to both shutter and aperture?

You need to go back to basics - what effect on your photos changes in shutter speed and/or aperture have!

In S mode, you choose a shutter speed for a specific intent -eg stopping motion with a short SS - and the camera's auto-exp. (which can do nothing "internally") adjusts aperture for a neutral exposure. Exp. comp. will offset exposure one way or the other through aperture changes. You might have to boost ISO, or go to auto-ISO setting to achive the short SS you want if with the lens wide-open the image is still under-exposed.

In A mode, your priority is setting aperture according to the depth of field in focus you want - shallow with wide aperture, eg. - and shutter speed is of secondary concern, as long as it's fast enough to stop any motion you're concerned about and hand-holdable. Exp. comp changes the shutter speed up or down.

So basically, S or A mode simply fixes the variable you are most concerned about in your image to a set point you choose. P mode lets you scroll through the possible combinations of A and SS that yield the same exposure, with exp. comp. alternately offsetting one variable, then the other. Since DOF is generally my main concern, I am in A mode except in nature shooting in S mode with my 100-300mm lens, where a high SS is mandatory.

As for the shutter dial in manual mode, I am certain that I am turning the shutter dial. I checked in the settings several times to make sure. I even turned the other dial and there still wasn't any difference. And it does seem like a bug because when turning the shutter dial, I can see in the viewfinder that it's registering my turns because the number would kind of flick, but still remain on the same number. But again, it's only sometimes. Right now for example, I can't replicate the bug at all.